/lit/ - Literature

>>9390511
>caring about whether or not you're published

You are what is wrong with art.

>>9390519
>caring about your precious works so that you can spread your art and ideas to people

Yeah you're right, art is only a personal thing. Thanks

>>9390511
>how do i start a political revolution in an industry of private publishers

You could start a magazine of your own or something. If that fails you could do a totalitarian overthrow of the government and strictly enforce anti-pc ethos in all aspects of life.

>>9390529

You could show me your shitty poem right now. You don't need to get published in the digital age. Not if you're good.

>>9390529
If you're being sincere, thanks for agreeing with me. If you're being ironic, you're haunted as fuck.

>>9390536
>>9390539
t. state school undergrads struggling to get published

>>9390531
I'm computer illiterate, have no clue how to start an online journal

>>9390545
>disses state school grads
>not smart and industrious enough to learn how to set up a fuckin' blog

i guess u got legacy admissions huh

>>9390550
A blog is not an online journal. Nice try, though

>>9390536
>You don't need to get published in the digital age. Not if you're good.
lol wut

>>9390511
sorry to hear you became a racist bc you couldn't get published

:(

>>9390511
Your poem is shit m8, get better before worrying about being published

>>9390567
when did /lit/ become so gay?

I swear this reddit infiltration is too much

OP, just keep going under the pseudonym

>>9390519
Exactly.

I write primarily for the pleasure of my own aesthetic sense, which happens to be extremely demanding. After me, I write for a small number of critics. If I send a poem to 40 publishers and they all reject it, but then I send the same poem to a poet I respect and he praises it, then I will feel very glad, and the rejection will have no effect upon me whatsoever.

>>9390545
>if you don't agree with me you must be resentful!
t. pretend artist

>spend a month writing a novel
>send it out in rough draft form without actually editing much
>rejections abound
>laugh at myself because I wrote the worst thing ever written
>write a second one, edited, gets published
>nobody buys it
>writing a third one now, who cares?
>I have no life outside reading and writing, but it's so comfy in here

>>9390576
Anon, how will you feel when you leave behind that shoebox beneath your death bed which contains the best lyric poetry of the 21st century and then your old arthritic dog pees on it and your dumb illiterate wife throws it out?

>>9390603
Who published it?

>>9390613
He won't feel anything because he's dead, dumbfuck

>>9390603
I like your style anon, mind if we get the name of the published one?

>>9390619
It was a small press, roughly 100 printed copies, and they never sent me a check. I loathed the whole process, and hated my publisher immensely. Fortunately, I published it under a pseudonym, and I'm not looking back, because it was all a miserable torment of dealing with creepy weirdos with suspicious business practices. Never got a check.

>>9390633
>>>>>>9390639
I want to pretend it never happened.

>>9390639
Oh god
Sounds awful. You should publish some short stories desu. Or send in a novella to those "first novel" contests that reputable lit mags sometimes have, or chapbook contests. I wouldn't mess with creepy small publishers, just stick to the big names. Contests cost money, which is annoying, but that at least guarantees that they'll read your entry :(

>>9390574
This guy is right. FUCK you, sensitivefag.

>>9390697
OP is the one who's saying that the fact that they can't get published is literally making them racist against their will

but ok i'm sensitive

>>9390721
it's ok to be racist, but make sure it's against the right people, the pocs and wocs aren't picking the winners, it's the chosen people who do the choosing

>>9390665
Forever self-publishing now. .99 cent ebooks. I'm never ever putting myself through any of that again. It's not worth it. It's like cheese-grating your knuckles for someone else's profit.

>>9390721
You're taking his words too serious and you're on fucking 4chan for godsake!

Threadly reminder that OP is writing POETRY, and the only financial incentives publishing houses have is to stuff as many ethnic names onto their roster to qualify for publishing grants.

That's OP's audience - about 50 or so aging white hippies in university boardrooms. A poem by Edgar Maximilian Schwartz has less utility for the publisher than one by Rev. Ellen Tao or whoever.

The big money is still in mass market airport-quality titles that are dominated by the likes of Thomas Friedman. Go bloviate about the state of the bond market or how apps will revolutionize the paradigm if you want a better chance

post yfw whites now have to go underground

>>9390511
>How do we fix the cancer that is the publishing industry?

What is a market?

>>9390721
Don't try to reason with them. They don't require logic in that version of reality.

>>9390814
Genre fiction and erotica is still lily white
Self-help, religious lit., current affairs and history are also white majority fields

>>9390861
Oh look, more tumblrinas. Watch out anons, its the politically correct army and they're coming for YOU.

>>9390861
It's not dialogue, it's literally just the spectacle of a simulated dialogue

Talking points are fired at random to give the impression of pioneers dropping truth bombs, and counterarguments are ignored in favour of emotive arguments or character insults

Idpol is obsessed with image, not substance - both sides. They're more preoccupied with appearing victorious to the mob than they are with constructing functioning ideas that don't fall apart at the slightest scrutiny

>>9390874
this

i feel like the recent popularity of slam poetry (very intertwined with identity politics) has led to a decrease in the popularity of 'white' poetry.

>>9390874
>Genre fiction and erotica is still lily white

naw, bitch, YOU'RE lilly white, go to a black bookstore and see all the urban lit most of which is like half erotica

>>9390874
>Self-help, religious lit., current affairs and history are also white majority fields

are you retarded?

http://www.sourceofknowledgebookstore.com/

>>9390898
You honestly are probably right, but why complain? I've mentioned in >>9390782 why "ethnic" poetry tends to get published, and combine that with the fact that the few people who do buy poetry are probably buying the idea of poetry and the image of the poet as truth-teller, which is more appealing with a minority writer who can tick off all the idpol boxes. It really is market forces at work here.

But even then, I just mentioned that much more profitable fields of literature still have ample opportunities for white authors. Why go into a fit that whites have lost a comparative potter's field of poetry where authors often outnumber readers?

>>9390888
Posts like this remind me of a good quote from my favourite Orwell essay:
>In our time it is broadly true that political writing is bad writing. Where it is not true, it will generally be found that the writer is some kind of rebel, expressing his private opinions and not a ‘party line’. Orthodoxy, of whatever colour, seems to demand a lifeless, imitative style...When one watches some tired hack on the platform mechanically repeating the familiar phrases — bestial, atrocities, iron heel, bloodstained tyranny, free peoples of the world, stand shoulder to shoulder — one often has a curious feeling that one is not watching a live human being but some kind of dummy: a feeling which suddenly becomes stronger at moments when the light catches the speaker's spectacles and turns them into blank discs which seem to have no eyes behind them. And this is not altogether fanciful. A speaker who uses that kind of phraseology has gone some distance toward turning himself into a machine. The appropriate noises are coming out of his larynx, but his brain is not involved, as it would be if he were choosing his words for himself. If the speech he is making is one that he is accustomed to make over and over again, he may be almost unconscious of what he is saying, as one is when one utters the responses in church. And this reduced state of consciousness, if not indispensable, is at any rate favourable to political conformity.

>>9390511
Protip: this never happened.

>>9390915
get a load of this faggot.

>>9390911
Mass market erotica is overwhelmingly white both in terms of writers and readership. Go to Chapters/B&N/whatever they have in the rest of the Empire and take a look.

>>9390914
Again, I'm talking about mass market literature.

The pie is big enough that minorities will get a fair slice, but my statement that all of these fields hold ample opportunities for whites still holds true.

>>9390924
Go and try it for yourself, white boi

>>9390721
What? He's saying publishers are racist.

>>9390926
What?

>>9390930
Is he really? He could be just complaining about shitty market trends.

>>9390928
oh well, if the guy is saying there aren't opportunities for white authors then he's fucking retarded, but i'm just saying there is a lot of black stuff out there that white people don't notice but sell decently

ITT: people complaining with struggling to get published yet refuse to take college level creative writing courses because obviously they know everything there is to know about writing and any rejection is the result of racial discrimination against white men.

>>9390567

It's almost as if people who are discriminated against in favour of minorities become resentful of minorities.

Boy, who could have predicted that!

>>9390939
that's whats stupid about this racial thinking, even if the publisher was totally racist and only published works from 100% pure aryans or some shit, their still going to publish people top tier education connections, or who managed to whore a big following social media, etc. they're still not gonna publish your awful shit either way

>>9390937
Hold on, so as a white author, my "opportunities" is to write shitty genre fiction and self-help books?

Go fuck yourself, Merith.

>>9390939
You can try it yourself. I know spending 100000 dollars on your writing degrre is hard to accept and you feel the need to make it worth something by using it as a backup to your argument on 4chan but its okay anon

>>9390939

MFA programs churn out uniformly middlebrow shit though. And the whole discrimination thing is kind of an objective fact so go choke on a BBC

>>9390623
Deep.

>>9390949
Hey, fuckboy, at least I don't go around asking people what they'll feel when they by definition cannot feel anything. Even to ask how he "would feel" hypothetically is ludicrous because a presupposition of the thought experiment is that he could feel after his death, which he could not. I myself wouldn't care if my dog pissed on my art shoebox after I died even if I somehow lived on after death (accepting the idiotic presupposition), because I know that no one would listen to me unless they wanted to anyway.

It's a ridiculous question to posit. Also, fuck you.

>>9390937
Oh OK. I wasn't fully getting your point.

>>9390939
I'm not really disagreeing with you, but there are elements of bias against whites (though really only in poetry and a handful of political subgenres)

What he gets wrong is in his insinuation that it's all because publishers are part of a big elitist globalist cabal who wants to take jobs away from hard working ben garrison and co. and give them to breadquanda and her poetry chapbook full of sentences with thirteen random page breaks. It's because the few readers who actually buy poetry/give poets grants PREFER that poetry over white guy pretending to be bukowski #530382.

It's market forces and nothing else. Wanna be mad OP? Go be mad at your potential customers for not praising your obvious genius with their credit cards.

>>9390945
>Hold on, so as a white author, my "opportunities" is to write shitty genre fiction and self-help books?
It's much more than that, but yeah.
I mean, I have no idea why you are so insistent on immediately rejecting even the possibility of work in much more profitable fields of literature for a field where a book turning a profit is considered a news story of the decade, but hey. "You do you," as the kids say.

But as I've said before, the market isn't obligated to give you the job you want. Suck it up and write something people will buy.

>>9390990
>I have no Idea why you don't want to eat this piece of shit rather than this five star meal I mean you do you but alright man

>>9390965

>>9391002
YOU (clap emoji) CAN'T (clap emoji) MAKE (clap emoji) MONEY (clap emoji) IN (clap emoji) A (clap emoji) FREE (clap emoji) MARKET (clap emoji) UNLESS (clap emoji) YOU (clap emoji) MEET (clap emoji) THE (clap emoji) DEMANDS (clap emoji) OF (clap emoji) THE (clap emoji) MARKET

>>9390519
Don't mind discrimination goy. You didn't seriously want any of it anyway.

>>9391021
Can you imagine being this brainwashed

>>9390576

>>9390576

Anon, the trick is to try and publish where a poet you admire publishes. There are multiple schools in contemporary poetry and these schools all have their own journals and institutions. Some are smaller, some are larger.

>this thread.

>>9391024
>mfw disgruntled memeposters are perturbed by my honesty
Maybe you should write a book about how the jews are ruining your life

>>9390972
>>9390990
>>9391021

Some white men haven't bought into the idea that the market is always right. You're asking idealistic artists to whore themselves out for money, which for many honest men is worse than not being published at all.

Many of the world's most famous writers died in poverty and obscurity. The market decided they were worthless but posterity proved the market wrong.

You're really being quite retarded because some of the best writers working RIGHT NOW are languishing in obscurity while Murakami and Gillian Flynn rake in the cash.

>>9391053
given the current political climate, it would probably be a good career move for him. milo got his start plagiarizing tori amos

>>9391037
Jokes on you nerd. I save money on gym fees by lifting proust and dfw at the library

>>9391061
>To conclude, this is why publishers should accept my guaranteed-to-lose-money manuscript over one that might break even

>>9391053
200 years together by Solzhenitsyn. Don't bother with translation. The publishers won't do it it. After all, why would we need knowledge from a literary genius.

>people in Best World trademark do not believe that their system is corrupted

>>9391083
Even ignoring the shoddy research he put into it, Solzhenitsyn spends a good part of the book documenting how the Russian state shat all over Russian Jews throughout the 19th and 20th centuries.

>>9391078

I'm not a writer though. I don't know why you keep screeching about muh market demand because by your logic the best art is Justin Bieber, superhero movies, and YA romances because that's what the most profitable. Take a look at this picture, do you see many masterpieces?

>>9390511
Fromb your own link - proof that being a white male is beneficial

http://jezebel.com/homme-de-plume-what-i-learned-sending-my-novel-out-und-1720637627

>>9391100
>mfw communist China alone made Mao book the second most selled ever, fuck you chinks.
If they're socialists, how did they sell all those books? Did they export all those?

>>9391095
I'll take that as an Oy vey.

>>9391100
What in the FUCK is The Alchemist, and how have so many people read it?

>>9391083
so instead of writing a book about how the jews ruin *your* life, you quote a book to me about how a "genius'" life was ruined by the jews.

if you're so concerned about it being translated, learn Russian fuckmonger

>>9391181
>do not blame or accuse the holy publisher industry that limits the field of information for the masses
Our world seems the greatest because we are apparently best at programming people.

>>9391180
according to wiki it's sold more than 150 million copies world wide, and I've literally never heard of this book before

>>9391189
Idiot, I couldn't give a fuck what the "holy publishing industry" does or doesn't do. That's the whole point of the notion that people who care about being published are philistines: well-executed art exists because the creator wanted to make it. It doesn't exist because the creator wanted money, fame, self-validation, or anything else.

The fact that you care how the publishing industry is oriented shows exactly how deeply in nonage you are to capitalism.

>>9391199
>Idiot, I couldn't give a fuck what the "holy publishing industry" does or doesn't do.
Yes you did. You claim that it is my fault that it is not available to me, and not the publishers'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6p1zxKnDeM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1yON7-6VK8

Educate yourself on the basics. If you immunize jews (or any other group) to criticism, they will turn corrupt if they weren't already.

>>9391227
No, I said that if you're actually an artist, you wouldn't care about whether it is available to you or not. "Fault" has absolutely no place here.

>>9391180
>>9391192
It's from Paulo Coelho a brazillian writer/songwriter, I actually never read it, although I've read another book from him. Aiport selling = money.

>>9391180
it's a shitty "magical realism" book with the same depth and message as The Secret

>>9390511

>Though the ratio of white to non-white writers published and reviewed in literary outlets appears to be holding strong around 9 to 1, there’s a decent contingent of white male writers who believe the “social justice movement” has put them at a real structural disadvantage.

It's almost as if this dude proved that in this instance, it was the implied ethnicity of a name rather than the quality of the content that was instrumental to getting published, isn't it Jezebel? And further from that, that the disproportion between white and minority writers might have something to do with whites writing better? This of course can be explained by reference to socioeconomic and educational factors, since races are all the same.

>>9391316

Since only a limited number of books get published each year, wouldn't a campaign for more "diversity" in literature necessarily limit the number of white males published? It's hard to argue that this spirit of anti white chauvinism doesn't hurt us.

>>9390721
Get women off this website

>>9390556
It is if you solicit submissions and post them.

>>9390623
>>9390965
Thanks, Diogenes.

No joke I write under an Islamic pseudonym and I get offers all the time

>>9391332
>fewer.jpg
Perfect.

>>9390519
FPBP

Damn i thought i was the only one who had a pseudonym for this.

Same shit happened to me. Fuck women, fuck identity politics, and fuck Muslims. It's all good, I'll continue to have my poetry accepted and paid for as extra cash in my pocket under my Jewish pseudonym.

I won 1000 bucks once just from entering a poem I did in a night. I guarantee that, if I revealed my skin color, it would never have been considered.

>>9390511
Where I live this would actually make sense. Most poetry here is by young white males, I'd totally understand publishers desiring some variety.

That said, the hit collections are also by males.

>oh yeah more black people would be great and women

Yeah see the problem is that only white people can make anything above decent poetry, whereas Tyrone and Nia are only in it because they know publishers want to suck their dicks for "CARING DIVERSITY"

I wish I lived in fascist Italy.

use psuedonyms, disassociate urself from whom u "think u r" 4 real or idk go outside n conduct manual labor

sage for not literature/pol spillover casuistry (sjws should head back 2 their containment board 2 fyi spooked leftist losers shit over this place as much/moreso than the bayou yotsuba-yearnin frogposters)

>>9391332
Fixed

>>9390511
people with any amount of authority whatsoever are the biggest fucking idiots

>>9392516
>tfw you realize that 99% of oppressed peoples who get published are still white men under false identities

>>9391100
Based Bible

>>9391180
That surprised me too. I know it's famous and I know some foreigners who have read it, but to think it's the fifth most read book in the world is absurd.

>>9392568
But if you put the comma after 'straight' then it sounds like she's telling white guys to read books as if they were homosexuals.

>>9390567
You are utterly retarded.

>>9392582
Except Rupi

>>9392749
>>9392582
At last I truly see! Rupi Kaur is an attempt by a STRAIGHT WHITE MALE to satirize what she seems to represent

>>9391100
Bible only masterpiece there.

>>9392758
I like Rupi, but that really is terrible.

By like I mean I want to plunder her holes.

>>9391100
The Bible is the most sold, not the most read.

>>9391310
>>9391310
Magical realism? Not at all.

>>9392758
>>9392793
The cum on my pants is just as natural, you won't see me picturing that. Shit is just gross.

>>9391180
>>9391310
>>9392711

Prepare to be mad.

>>9393913
Actually, he hit the nail.

>>9390567
Low IQ brainlet

>>9391146
everyone is forced to read it in school

>>9390511
What's the point? What this means is that your poem is actually shit, but if you're a minority you get affirmative action.

What's the point? Do you really want to play that game? Your first poem is not going to be good, and you obviously haven't put the least amount of effort into your craft. Why bother?

>>9394745
Alright, Debbie.

When did I say it was my first poem?
You're retarded.

>>9393913
This critique might be fair from someone else, but Coelho is empty hack nonsense personified.

>>9391100
How is the Quran not on there?

>>9392742
Interesting, why the focus on Brazil?

>>9391100
>past 50 years
>Twilight
>Harry Potter
>Da Vinci Code
Something is very wrong with this statistician's methods...

>>9390511
>Which leads me to wonder what it is

>I’m doing here, peering through a lens at the thigh-pouches/ stuffed with pollen and the baffling intricacies

>of stamen and pistil. Am I supposed to say something, add/ a soundtrack and voiceover?

to which the author says:
>As with contemporary visual art, poetry is a medium whose unusual angles of subjectivity can be confounding; although Alexie picking it for Best American was part of an admittedly activist editorial stance, “The Bees...” only getting picked up on its 50th submission may just be its particular luck, changing byline aside. It’s not a great poem, is what I’m saying. (Another Hudson poem from this summer, titled, of all things, “Slave Cemetery,” falls similarly short.) That last sentence in particular flops like a line cut out of the Garden State screenplay; it’s a poet literally asking “Should I say something about the bees?”

How the fuck have you people not heard of Coelho? Even in my shitty post-communist European country he's a household name.