/lit/ - Literature

>>9342540
Meditations

any hemmingway

>>9342540
Satyricon by Petronius

>>9342569
this

>>9342540
Why would an man ever be "secure" in his masculinity? I'd rather be humble in my masculinity.

When you learn BBJ, you're not taught to be "secure" in your skills. You get choked out, and you tap out, because you're not good enough. You're taught be humble, not secure. You face the reality that you will lose sometimes. That's the point of competing.

Humbleness is a key part of manliness. You can't have competition without it.

As Donovan put it in Becoming A Barbarian:

>The idea that a man should be “secure in his masculinity” is a bourgeois fantasy
invented by therapists and repeated by women. Every king, every chief, every world
record holder and every silverback gorilla looks over his shoulder. Being good at
being a man just means the challenges get dialed up and the challengers become
more formidable.

>This gauntlet must be run whether a boy likes it or not, whether he accepts it or
rejects it. To reject the struggle is forfeiture. Avoiding the struggle is an acceptance
of defeat and a demonstration of spiritual cowardice.

>There are some who will applaud this kind of forfeiture as if it were courageous,
but they are despisers of masculinity and strength. They are foolish women or
failed men or deceitful manipulators who prefer men to be passive, for reasons of
their own.

>However, accepting the fate of men and running the gauntlet of manliness
means understanding that the fight is never truly fair, and that all men are not born
with the same strengths.

>Accepting the fate of men also means understanding that the fight is rigged, and
that every man will either die early or live to see himself decline. Every man who
does not die in his prime will live to see his body fail and become weak.

>>9342641
gay

>>9342641
>being humble about masculinity
that is not how it works you little shit

>>9342641
>bbj
>think u meant bjj
My fuckin sides

>>9342540
obvious answer - Hemingway

>>9342674
DELETE THIS.

>>9342663
Yes it is.

99% of the time someone says "Whatever dude, I'm secure in my masculinity" they're someone who looks like pic related.

99% of millennial males should be 100% insecure in their masculinity. Some sort of forced bootcamp or a world war or great depression would be beneficial.

>>9342660
Yes, very much so.

>>9342569
this

>>9342694
>world war
>needs calamity to be seen as manly

wew

>>9342540
Stay "insecure" in your masculinity so masculinity can be conveniently defined for you by a feminine-primary culture.

Stay blue pill faggot. :^)

>>9342718
I refuse to believe this is real.

>>9342540
The Achilleid of Stace

>>9342721
fite me.

Your "spooks" are nothing but abstract mental masturbation.

>>9342540

Haha Christ, I tried to read The Way of Men and it was maximum spooked. Went to Amazon to check out the reviews after quitting about ten pages in from the epub I torrented and some of the comments for legitimate reviews call the reviewers cucks. It blows my fucking mind.

>>9342711
No, I think calamity might shake us out of this malaise, though. Right now we're turning into the civilization from Wall-E.

>>9342718
Nice.

>>9342721
Why?

>>9342727
Way Of Men was good and fairly mainstream. It wasn't even that /pol/. It was Becoming The Barbarian that was right-wing or political and kind of insane.

Why didn't you like it? It's not even controversial. Jack went nuts after he wrote that.

>>9342722
Anything featuring Greek heroes is no good as they're actually depicted as having emotions, instead of being unfeeling stoic entities,

>>9342733
Because he believes in the religion of le-spook-man, i.e. he subscribes to to the outdated notion of "tabula rasa", and prescribing in-built, predictable behaviours to human beings chafes against his "blank slate" egalitarian views.

>>9342733

Because if someone is telling you how to act then they're using you. It's retarded. Masculinity is a serious spook that is hurting men more than it's helping.

Actually had a conversation about this with a grill the other day and we talked about toxic masculinity and how detrimental it is.

>>9342734
There's nothing unmanly about showing emotions like those greek heroes. Alexander The Great was said to cry when he found there were no more worlds to conquer.

Are you building a strawman?

In The Way Of Men Donovan says what's unmanly is to let your emotions overwhelm you, to prevent you what needs to be done and shirk manly responsibilities. "I don't feeeel like going to work." That's when emotions becoming weakness- women and children can afford to be weak. Not men.

>>9342745
Kind of like when Odysseus begins shaking and doesn't want to fight the suitors before Athena grants him courage?

fight club

>>9342745
>let your emotions overwhelm

Yeah, it doesn't work like that. Donovan really needs to go back to driving a truck and not polluting people's minds with idiocy.

>>9342742
Many such cases! He needs to read Steven Pinker.

>>9342743
>Masculinity is a serious spook that is hurting men more than it's helping.

This post would make a lot of sense if it was written in 1317. But it's 2017, nobody gives a shit about masculinity anymore. It's absence is hurting us, not is presence.

>Actually had a conversation about this with a grill the other day and we talked about toxic masculinity and how detrimental it is.

You should help solve the problem by killing yourself. :)

>>9342753

Not at all, no. Masculinity is still a big deal and to simply write it off as not fitting into a certain year is ridiculous.

>>9342734
I'm not asking him to be the hero...

>>9342748
Exactly. The Gods in those stories were metaphors for "the better angels of our nature"- meaning how our impulses pull us in difference directions.

>>9342752
Donovan doesn't need to do anything you want, actually. :)

>>9342759
It SHOULD be a big deal- it's under attack. In the 1920s Teddy Roosevelt wrote about how masculinity was disappearing, and he was right. He supported the boy scouts for that reason. And it's gotten worse every decade since. Civilization has diminishing returns.

>>9342762
>The Gods in those stories were metaphors for "the better angels of our nature"
Then why is the Iliad all about the gods conniving with and betraying each other whilst treating men like toys?

>>9342762
>Donovan doesn't need to do anything you want, actually. :)

Sure, but it would be more beneficial if he simply dropped dead.

>>9342763

The irony of mentioning Teddy Roosevelt in this thread is probably lost on you.

The Iliad vs the Odyssey.

>>9342769
>The irony of mentioning Teddy Roosevelt in this thread is probably lost on you.

I'm just a fan of the boy scouts, is.

>Sure, but it would be more beneficial if he simply dropped dead.

Sounds like you've got a lot of growing up to do m8.

>>9342764
Because gods are only human. ;)

“Your body should face her at a slight glancing angle to show that she still needs to prove herself before you’ll give her your complete attention.”

What did he imply by this?

>>9342785
What do you think he meant you incel?

Have you ever approached a woman? This shit is attraction 101.

>>9342785
Roosh is a shallow sperg. Fuck him. Donovan is a fag but his philosophical references are 100% spot on and he's right about almost everything.

>>9342786
>calls others incels
>needs to read shitty books and make shitty attempts at manipulating drunk women in order to get laid

>>9342800
Chris would describe himself was "very secure in his masculinity" before he decides he was a tranny.

>>9342800
>parrots feminist boilerplate garbage
>understanding how to attract women and how women work makes you a rapist
>"waaaaaah NAWALT, go sleep with your drunk sluts"

>>9342808
You're a virgin, that's okay. There's nothing wrong with it, why are you getting so hostile?

>>9342818
Coming from the guy who doesn't understand attraction 101, ayyyy lmao

>>9342818
I'm not a virgin. Although I did lose my virginity to a hooker when I was 22.

>>9342828
not me :)

>>9342825
Attraction 101: Be attractive enough for the woman you're pursuing

Sadly, no matter what angle you stand at, or what canned sentences you use, or how much you "neg" those "HBB 10s", or how much "Kino" you initiate, none of them will want you because you're so unattractive you have to refer to internet articles and self-help books to have any chance with even an average woman.

t. Chad.

>>9342849
Useful tips for beginners such as yourself, you've obviously learned them well.

>>9342849
Nothing wrong with self-help books.

We're all beginners at some point.

Again, there's that idea of being humble. Always remain humble.

>>9342569
anywhere specifically I should start?

>>9342569
This.

Become knowledged and overcome your fears.

>>9342718
The Way of Men is actually solid.

nothing more manly than ritual disembowelment

>>9342540
Torture Garden

>>9342540
read some Tolstory and embrace femininity because it's so much more enjoyable and attractive than masculinity.

>>9342718
>>9342641
>reading books to learn how to be masculine

Lmaoooooo

>>9343039
The Sun Also Rises is perfect. Jake Barnes is perfectly masculine in his behaviour, but his cock was damaged in the war, so he can only watch the woman he loves throwing herself at almost anybody and be miserable.

>>9343265
that sounds like garbage.
I wanted to read something more in line with the thought expressed in the OP post, not old cuck porn.

>he fell for the feminist "if you act manly you're just insecure or closet homo" meme

>>9342569
came here to post this

>>9343753
1. He didn't say all men who act masculine are insecure. He asked for books for men who are insecure and act masculine.
2. This proposition doesn't have anything to do with feminism.
It's obvious you've never read any feminist theory / philosophy and that your reading comprehension in general is quite poor.

>>9343776
I honestly can't imagine a bigger waste of my time than reading feminist philosophy, stay buttwounded sissy boy

>>9342540
Why giving them books? They better committe suicide

>>9343783
>I honestly can't imagine a bigger waste of my time than reading [something that challenges my current worldview]
Generalized that for you. Stay braindead, pal.

>>9343753
What?

>>9343788
Not everything needs to be read or experienced.
You sound like the type of guy who'd suck a dick just to see what it feels like, and I'm sure your philosophy in life makes you inclined to do so.
>>9343790
You stupid?

>>9343796
>You stupid?

What?

>>9343753
It's called meme magic you cuck. Praise Kek!

>>9343796
>he fell for the feminist meme
>stay buttwounded sissy boy
>You sound like the type of guy who'd suck a dick
It didn't go unperceived that you said "read or experienced" instead of simply "read" so that you could shoehorn another homophobic insult. I am honestly saddened by the pitiful life you lead- obsessing over masculinity and heterosexuality. It sucks, because feminism has such a negative perception in the public eye due to "lipstick feminists" or "buzzfeed feminists" or whatever you want to call them, but reading actual feminist theory can radically challenge your beliefs in a positive, self-affirming way (even for men). I used to be like you. Nothing else to say to you, really.

I think the bigger problem is that you've been raised by media and education system to see masculinity as something inherently bad, irrational and stupid and the phrase "toxic masculinity" looks completely reasonable to you. Moreover, you think that resorting to armchair attempts at psychoanalysis by sprouting some gibberish about insecurity and overcompensation actually somehow elevates you to an intellectualy superior position. In conclusion, you probably a)can't bench your bodyweight and b)don't think it's a bad thing. I'd recommend you reading some Mishima.

>>9343829
Pretty sure OP used 'excessively' for a reason. It's a fair request, not the latest manifestation of the feminist takeover.

>>9343039
>For Whom the Bell Tolls

The protagonist is a great masculine role model.

>>9343823
I'm not obsessing over anything, I just feel at ease with a somewhat traditional model of masculinity. You fell into the same trap that my first post was berating OP for lol, if someone prefers to be more conservative and typically masculine it doesn't mean they "obsess" over it or that they're insecure. Still not reading feminists. I've watched a lecture on SdB a few months ago and it was more or less exactly what I expected.

>>9342540
hemingway or that japanese guy who offed himself.
basically any closet homosexual writer.

I read Becoming a Barbarian and The Way of Men and while the content isn't deplorable (excuse my phrasing) this guy is just a fucking cernovich.

Like Jack Donovan's vibe is just level 100 fedora. Like at the end of the day, this man has never fucked a woman.

>>9343850
>"""""""more or less""""""""

People always let you know it subtle ways that they are being dishonest.

> if someone prefers to be more conservative and typically masculine it doesn't mean they "obsess" over it or that they're insecure

OP specifically mentioned excess. Excess implies obsession, no?

>>9343872
Damn, I'm learning so much about myself from you kek, gtfo

City of Night, by John Rechy.

>>9343878
Speaking of excess

>>9342540
The Alphabet of Manliness
It isn't literature by any means but with its good portion of truth and satire about the over-appreciation of masculinity, you're in for a good read.

>>9342641
>romanticizing masculinity this hard
this autistic masculinity trend is hilarious.
pretty sure you're a closet homosexual. being a man means getting shit done, the only people who write or read prose about getting shit done are closet poofs.

>>9343843

>I have always harbored admiration for their courage and sacrifice in Spain. I have felt that way since I was boy of 12, reading Hemingway’s “For Whom the Bell Tolls” in my father’s study. It is my favorite novel, and its hero, Robert Jordan, the Midwestern teacher who fought and died in Spain, became my favorite literary hero.

-John McCain

>>9343895
>Maddox
I know you prefaced it with a warning but damn even with the heads up it's still hilarious

>>9343907
Forgive me, I never read anything in regard of "appreciation of masculinity" besides this one. Hey, at least it has some nice drawn pictures in it, r-right?

>>9342540
The Way of Men is a good book but it should be common sense if you had a dad that wasn't a faggot.

>>9343753
Jack Donovan ruined it because he's an actual faggot

>>9343940
>if you had a dad that wasn't a faggot.
That's the problem, a lot of people did not have such a dad.
And I think it's getting worse. Nowadays kids grow up with fathers who watch porn, browse reddit and support racemixing.

>>9343948
It might seem counterintuitive at first, but I think him fighting his "manliness insecurities" made him better and more fine tuned to these issues.

I don't get the point of only asking men to show the virtious traits associated with masculinity. Why not make them a standard for women and men alike? Why is the shit peddled by turds like donovan always so focussed on old sexist roles rather than cultivating a positive model for all people, women and men alike, to aspire to?

>>9343966
Because human society doesn't work if you have perfect equilibrium. But sure, some virtues should be instilled into men as well as women, like honesty, loyalty, industriousness etc.

>>9343975
What kind of equilibrium are we talking about here? An equilibrium of virtues seems unproblematic to me. The idiologies outlined by such "priests" of masculinity often seem to bring with them, at least as far as I can tell, the shaming, ridicule and exclusion of those that do not fit the predetermined mold of what they are supposed to be like according to, in these cases, theie genitalia. I dislike that. I don't appreciate people telling other people, especially telling me, what traits I should and should not show (excluding obviously harmful ones, that is).

>>9343993
First, can you give me an example of how men and women should be similar to one another?

>>9343965
>support racemixing

Oh, the horror! What has become of /lit/?

>>9344003
You're the faggot dad that he's talking about.

>>9344006
At least I'm not frightened by "racemixing". You people are weak.

>>9344012
I'm not frightened, I'd just rather not have it.
Who's "you people"? I don't consider myself as part of any group.

>>9343868
>Like at the end of the day, this man has never fucked a woman.
isn't he 100% confirmed a fag

>>9344003
Serious question: why does it bother you so much?
What do you lose if people refuse to racemix?

>>9344032
>le )(()()())(() meme
fuck off back to /pol/ you retarded brony

>>9344035
?
The eternal (((leftie))) seems to have completely lost it...

>this thread

Boy howdy.

>>9344032
That's a strange question. I don't care if an individual decides to stick with someone of his or her own race. What makes less sense is condemning racemixing at large. The better question is why does racemixing bother you so much? You don't have to answer that. I'm aware of the flimsy arguments for racial purity.

>>9343966
because sexist roles are the only working way. just look how shit the world went when women could first vote and then work.

>>9344065
fuck off democracytard

this is an ~aristo~ board

>>9343966
>Why not make them a standard for women and men alike?

Because certain male and female traits don't work well with either sex. Making women like men in certain roles just gives you a shittier version of men (and vice versa), e.g. women as warriors.

Why is it that leftists who pay lip service to diversity can't actually into things that are actually diverse?

>>9344080
What? Aristotle didn't allow women to take part in the polis. Besides the big Ari himself believed women were inferior to men. Which they are.

>>9344091
cracy not totle

>>9344080
>>9344091
oh wow

>>9344063
>What makes less sense is condemning racemixing at large.
Condemning and "not supporting" are slightly different things, but OK.

>The better question is why does racemixing bother you so much?
It's not the better question, though.
Racial discrimination on a personal level (just like all discrimination) is absolutely normal, so it's not a stretch to want this manifested in your society in general.

Funnily enough, people who support and promote racemixing are also racially discriminating. They just prefer the "mixed races" more than the "pure" ones for some reason. Well, that's one conclusion you can draw. I can imagine other possible answers, that's why I asked the question.

>>9342540
If you can stand his spickiness, Drown by Junot Diaz.

>>9343868
He's a homosexual.

>>9343965
Chesterton once said "Worshipping manliness too much can make you unmanly. Look at Oscar Wilde." He was a coded reference to Wilde being a homo.

But the difference is Chesterton wrote that 100 years ago when society had lots of manliness and faggotry was taboo. Now we have almost none.

So the only person left to worship it is a fag who likes to work out. I'm fine with that. He's fine with being an out of the closet gay man and he does worship manliness. But we need that.

It's strong medicine. The weak are the ones that need to be concerned with strength. The strong are secure in they strength. Men in 2017 need to be insecure.

>>9343966
Nigga the blank slate has been proven false.

>thread about insecure men who act excessively manly to compensate

>he fell for the feminist meme
>stay buttwounded sissy boy
>You sound like the type of guy who'd suck a dick

You can't make this stuff up

>>9344972
Ending /fitlit/ was a mistake.

Always stay humble kids. Never be "secure" in your masculinity- there's always a faster gunfighter.

>>9342540

I feel like the majority of people in this thread haven't even read Donovan. Is this how most of /lit/ works?

>>9343265
bane.bmp

>>9343965
This is how I see it. My one big problem with Jack Donovan is the problem I have with all homosexuality, which is that it's unbalanced.

A hard man is supposed to like a soft woman. That's the balance of all life- the male principle and the female principle. Form and space. Action and structure. Penis and vagina. Ying and Yang.

So with homosexuals, you often have weak men who like strong women, and other weak men. Sometimes one is the top and he's more alpha but most homos are lisping weak faggots who are like women themselves.

Then Jack comes along and says "I'm a homo because I love strong men!" But you're a strong man. You're not supposed to like strong men, you're supposed be want to be a strong man. Once you're strong, you're supposed to like feminine women.

So it's unbalanced- I don't think it's normal for two alpha strong men to love each other. I don't know anything about Jack's husband but I wonder if he's a lisping faggot? Either way it's unbalanced.

But that's just his personal life.

>/lit/ is still cucked by the patriarchy

>>9345035
Nigga, 50 Shades Of Grey was the best-selling book of the 20th century. Women WANT a masculine dude. And for the most part they're not getting it.

>>9345034

>You're not supposed to like strong men, you're supposed be want to be a strong man

I can tell you from personal homo experience that these two sentiments aren't mutually exclusive. You're right that it doesn't make sense if you see it through standard gender roles, but that's the entire fallacy; homosexuality is NOT an adherent to typical gender roles. That very fact is why so many people dislike it.

You could even argue that the homo/hetero roots of the terms apply to personality and physique as well as sex in terms of attraction; the homo attracted to what is like him/hersef (strong man/strong man, twink/twink, which is something you actually see a lot of in the queer community) and the hetero likes what is not like themself (strong/weak, leader/follower), etc.

Arguing what you're "supposed to" be attracted to is an argument from a top-down teleological perspective of human sexuality, and we know via evolution that looking at it that way is incorrect, at least from a logical perspective.

>>9342569
this

>>9345101
There's nothing logical about our evolutionary psychology, in the sense that we evolved to survive, not to be logical.

I'm not describing human beings as I'd like them to be, but as we are, illogical and all.

>>9342718
>learn how to be a man from a gay man who would rape you to death given the chance

>>9342718
It is missing a few classics

>>9342718
bög

Unironically Jack Donovan desu.

Read his way of men, when I did I had my own little spiritual renaissance, went from being one of those cringy Milo + Trump supporter to actually develop my own views, instead of just subscribing to the lesser evil of the kind of shit this fag churns out.