/lit/ - Literature

>>9307155
>Based R.R Martin is a hack
Stop being a contrarian cuckold

>>9307155
He makes my cock rock hard

>implying literary gods have ever made good money

>>9307155
Yes OP, you are the first person on /lit/ to ever post this.

>>9307160
Proof only faggots like the homoerotic shit which is under fifty shades of grey in book sales

>>9307159
Fedora posting is going to get you nowhere bub

I've been with my wife for 10 years now. We met in high school, and I got her pregnant.
She is and always has been a lazy person and a shit cook. I wouldn't even mind eating shit food if she at least made it on time. But she rarely did.

We'd get into screaming arguments constantly about how lazy and worthless she was. I felt like an asshole for it, but goddamn she was a real piece of work. The only reason I dealt with all this was for the kids, and also because the sex is great.

But one night, I got fed up. Not only did she get drunk, neglect the kids, and made me top Ramen for dinner, but she decided to give me attitude too. She was being real fucking bitchy. So I told my grandparents to keep an eye on the kids and told my wife we were going to go out and have dinner together. I drove maybe 3 blocks to a quiet area (we live in Oregon, it's not hard to find a quiet field) and I got out of the car, went around like I was going to open her door for her and let her out, and I just beat the shit out of her while she was still seatbelted. After a few punches, I asked her if she wanted to go back to her parents. She started screaming and yelling and said yes, so I beat the shit out of her again. Then I asked her what she wanted to do. She finally got smart and said she wanted to go home. So I took her home and dared her to start trouble. I even handed her my cellphone and dialed her mom's number on the drive home. I made her talk to her mom, while daring her to fucking say something.

Before that incident, I had never laid a hand on her. But I had always threatened it. I told her "one of these days, if you don't straighten up, I'm going to lay hands on you."

All my meals have been on time, and she just recently tried to make a meatloaf. It was mediocre, but I was just thrilled that she tried.

Do with this information what you will.

>>9307162
If his books were half as good as people say they were then he should be rolling in money, but he aint. Trying to savor his 15 minutes of fame by not releasing his newest book which is going to be shit like the rest of them, but since this one is going to be a partly payoff book then he hopefully will be exposed for the hack he is. Literally has no original story other than
>hurrr medieval times
>Muh knights
>Muh intrigue
>Muh dragons

>>9307183
There is also no basis in the world for why any of these things exist other than, it just does. Feudalism just doesnt pop up outta nowhere, but was a unique combonation of the Roman latifundium and Germanic inheritance blending together. But since there was no huge sprawling empire before Aegon this makes no fucking sense. When the basis OF YOUR ENTIRE FUCKING STORY DOESNT MAKE SENSE why the fuck are you still allowed to write?

>>9307155
>the most basic of stories
Is that what passes for literary criticism where you come from? You're not giving anyone a substantial base from which to agree or even disagree with you.

You're not looking for a discussion, you're either unskillfully trolling or just shitting out your feelings onto the board in a manner that is extraordinarily nonconstructive. Pretty hypocritical for someone calling a lauded author a hack.

>>9307155
Exactly how is it basic?

>>9307167
Stimulated my pecans.

if you think this then you're just envious of success

you know at your heart you are

>>9307167
This is probably pasta, but the fact that you're thrilled that the fruit of your crime was mediocre meat loaf is the saddest shit I've ever heard.

>>9307183
http://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/celeb/producer/george-r-r-martin-net-worth/
>>9307183
Forms of feudalism have arisen independently in Japan, China, India, and Ethiopia.

>>9307208
only non-shitpost response in the thread desu

>>9307167
>Lazy women
>Good at sex

>Things that never happened.tmp

>>9307167
>not beating her until she answers "I want to get fucked by your massive cock until I'm a better woman"
>not helping her improve her ability to improve herself, enabling her to serve you in incredibly satisfying ways such cooking more satisfying meals that take skill and insight

>>9307167
Wait, what's this have to do with anything?

This sounds like some reddit tier stuff.

>>9307326
You can be selectively lazy. There have been many well-documented women who were famously enthusiastic in the bedroom and yet useless for almost any other labour.

>>9307208
By basic story I mean its been done hundreds of times. Its not even like he's adding anything new or dynamic to the plotline and most characters can be summed up in a few short words. And he is incredibly inaccurate for the time period he is going for. The consistency and plot are all over the place and a grounded narrative can't even be established since as soon as we get invested into a character we switch off from them or they die, only to be replaced with even worse characters.

>>9307874
>incredibly inaccurate for the time period he is going for
What did he mean by this?

>>9307874
>Your manuscript is both good and original; but the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good.

>>9308149
He doesn't understand worldbuilding as separate from drawing inspiration from a framework of events.

>>9308155
Martin has repeatedly affirmed his autism for real world parallels and in-depth explanations/justifications, yet fails to provide those in his own books. He tries to pass off his books as alt-history with dragons but they're no more believable than Eragon.

>>9308170
You're losing your position at both ends, anon. You realize that parallels are not categorical and need only be connected from one parallel to another, don't you? If not, perhaps your appellation of autism is misplaced.

>>9307155
>Hollywood
>Entertainment Industry
>Basic consumerism in full swing due to Marxist propaganda
Well lad, it's the perfect time for simple fantasy tales directed at dimwits who think they're smart.

>>9308178
>from one element to another
Fixed.

>>9307167
I imagine this to be copy pasta, but what's to stop her from calling the cops and filing a lawsuit? Being a woman in the current age entitles you to tremendous spoils of war. There's kids involved, and fuck knows what else she can sue. Roleplaying confirmed. Saged.

>>9308192
Fear of loneliness, accountability, and change. Desire for betterment, safety, and approval.

>>9308224
Are women this stupid?

>>9308234
Men, too.

>>9308239
How many scenarios do you know of where a man is physically abused?

>>9307167
Made me laugh.

>>9308255
I thought we were talking about stupidity in general. What does the frequency of physical abuse towards men matter to the stupidity involved?

>>9308261
You were talking of stupidity, I was being relevant to the conversation.

>>9308268
Red herring.

I answered a question, and you responded to that answer with a seemingly unrelated question. When asked why you did that, you claimed to be addressing some larger conversation - by addressing me instead of whatever part of that conversation caught your attention.

Next time, try not to enter a conversation you don't want to participate in.

>>9308275
I'm not arguing with you, fag boy.
It's called being human, and exchanging ideas;
you're autistic and weird, what a surprise.

>>9308284
I'm not arguing with you, either. I was advising you not to jump into conversations you don't want to have, because if you can't handle that it's not a great way to exchange ideas.

You're not going to exchange anything if you don't have any inbound capacity.

>>9308292
It's okay. You can't pay too much attention to people like that. They demand to be led around by the nose in order to understand something at all, and then complain that you're oddly focused on details.

>>9307155
so, anon, what do you consider a good fantasy series?

>>9307167
99% sure this pasta was written by a woman.

>>9307167
If this is real then I hope you realize that what you did was wrong. I hope your wife can forgive you.

>>9307155
>>9307155
The same thing was said about Shakespeare and Jane Austen when they were contemporary. What makes you think you're smarter than critics back then?

>>9309126
>turning your alcoholic wife around before she hurts your kids or can't respect herself anymore
>needing forgiveness
Pick one.

>>9307341

>reddit
>man enough to beat their woman right

>>9307183
he's rich and doesn't care imo, he gets to blog all day about his favorite sports teams.

>>9307155
I used to dog on people's prose until I started writing and realized how difficult it is not only to create but to publish content that will sell.

You have to keep in mind that writing is labor intensive and most people end up dumbing down their own shit for the sake of selling. Read any book on how to write books that sell and you will see that they all tell you to avoid Trivia, Academia, Existentialism, purple prose, and all the other hallmarks of "masterpieces."

Writing is so expensive an undertaking that writing books that are "deep" or "thoughtful" is often considered a sad and pretentious undertaking not worthy of publishing.

Call him a hack but at least he is able to support himself off of his writing, and then some.

>>9308181
When these elements need a semblance of connection to their world to explain why they are there and not just because it's a book about the middle ages and no connection is given it is a shi t book

>>9309110
Lord of the rings

>>9307194
Christ you're autistic.

Why would an audience of NOVEL READERS AND TV SHOW WATCHERS (i.e., not people with sophisticated historical knowledge) care about the sort of things you're getting butthurt over.

If Martin catered to your standards he wouldn't sell. Hell, he might not even get published.

Stories are for evoking feeling in readers through contrived conflicts and plot development. Anything intellectual is esoteric and costs more to produce than its sells. The years spent gathering the necessary knowledge to write something like you would find satisfactory, full of technical and esoteric knowledge (which I'm sure you'll insist is BASIC and OBVIOUS in a min.), is way more expensive than just writing a shitty page-turner with dragons and tits.

The truth is selling and doing good in the free market having nothing to do with intelligence or dignity. At least not until audiences have more sophisticated expectations than they do now.

You are what first-world media-consuming audiences might want in 200 years, assuming a general increase in avg. level of education.

>>9310565
Okay I'll accept that answer, but after reading it for the third time it kind of gets dull

>>9310565
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0

Have some normie media

>>9310571
Writers aren't supposed to censor themselves because people won't understand their work. The deeper and more profound a piece of literature is the longer it will be remembered. And this middle school social studies class alternate history book isn't anything special.

>>9310589
you do know that normies turn the world right?
there's a reason social science is more popular than quantum mechanics

>>9310561
You seem to be suffering from "a little bit of knowledge" about the allegorical source material, and almost none of literature as a craft.

>>9310589
>Writers aren't supposed to censor themselves because people won't understand their work.

I agree.

>The deeper and more profound a piece of literature is the longer it will be remembered.

Correct. To an extent.

>And this middle school social studies class alternate history book isn't anything special.

I agree.

Hmm... your post has the tone of a refutation even though it only says things I agree with. I'm starting to feel like maybe you took more away from my post than there was to take away.

I'm telling you WHY martin writes the way that he does: To sell books that get published easily. To support himself. To enjoy himself.

Writing books that are intellectual and artistic achievement takes a level of work most authors are not capable of. Not being a name that shows up in literary textbooks in 200 years does not make you a hack. It makes you normal. And even if Martin is a hack... so what? Why fixate on him? Just write something better and never mention him. Any press is good press. Dogging on someone just emboldens and validates their fans.

Hater talk doesn't work. Sorry if that sounds stupid to you, but it's how things fundamentally work until the MINDS of most of the public VOLUNTARILY decide to have higher standards.

That will be a while.

>>9307167
Am I the only piece of shit in this board that thought the message was that misery breeds results?

>>9309333
>Fighting fire with violence and mental domination

An eye for an eye makes the whole world Tien Shinhan, anon

>>9309144
Shakespeare and Jane Austen sucked in their day and they still suck now.

Christopher Marlowe and Michael Moorcock are the correct alternatives to Shakespeare and Martin.

>>9307167
i never unerstood beating your own wife. That's YOUR wife man. it's like keying your own car.

>>9310686
The best of a bad universal set of personal options is still the best.

>>9310746
>Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor.
If a (hu)man cannot or will not remake themselves, then the suffering will be gifted from another.

> probably flipped through books after watching tv series

Books 1 to 3 were great in that the characters had a legitimate medieval mindset, as opposed to people with swords and magic from most modern fantasy.
That alone made them good.
Book 4 and 5 were meh. Get to the point.
Fucking tv show, ruining my favorite secret.

>>9307160
He makes my asshole gape and release wet sloppy farts that would make the dragons jealous and wish they were human.

>>9310846
Your best option was leaving her.

>>9309126

Spotted the nu male

>>9311107
The story isn't mine. I just accept that some men are in a worse situation than I am and that for them, sometimes, a shitty car/woman/job is their best option at that specific point in their lives.

I also accept that for some people their own position is so tenuous that other people are not worth the personal risk in saving, or that their aversion to violence and interpersonal accountability disqualify it as a method of assistance yet have no better. If you can do something that is better for you and her, good. If you can't offer anything in your relationship worth getting beat up a few times, that's pathetic.

>>9310746
Definitely a woman, thinking of a man's relationship to a woman as that to a possession in a scenario that directly invokes her personhood.

>>9307155
Basically: his writing isn't really great, but he's got an amazing understanding of the human mind + great knowledge of (at least one part of) history. He really knows how to write characters.

>>9311275
Why do so many people think that "writing" is no more or less than narrative, while things like "characterization" is considered a separate, complimentary skill?

>>9311350
Not separate per se, I was obviously talking about his prose, but yes I should have used that word.

>>9311363
Prose isn't narrative either.

>>9311411
So? I didn't talk about narrative. All I meant to say was that his prose isn't great.

>>9311426
What makes great prose?

>>9311448
I know you probably meant that question in good faith, but people here are going to take it as a smug attack.

>>9307155
The real question is why do you pseuds get so triggered over the existence of popular fiction? the only answer i can think of is that all your reading choices are based off wanting to show everyone how intelligent and cultured you are, and it drives you insane when the cuties at the local book store dont suck your dick for buying your paperback pynchon.

>>9311448
Great vowels
>e
>o
>a

>>9311448
Like everything else in literature, it's subjective. That being said, I find his prose to be unremarkable - better than, but sort of like airport novels: it's effective, does its job well but doesn't stay with you, it isn't particularly attractive. Not to mention a high use of adjectives/adverbs, which I know isn't necessarily that bad but I feel like he overuses them sometimes. Also I should say that English isn't my native language so I might be biased based on what I'm used to read in French.

>>9311477
>French
Why are we all on /lit/?

>>9311477
If the subjective were not worth analyzing and discussing, the putative justification for this board would not exist.

>>9311501
Well, there's nowhere else to go except plebbit.

>>9311477
>ask a French person why they find something unremarkable
>their reply essentially starts with "it lacks a certain je ne sais quoi"
I found this much too amusing.

That said, I feel that not all writing must be beautiful in the way that not all food needs to look like candy. You may have meant engaging rather than attractive, I don't know. I have a high tolerance for descriptive writing so I am probably biased as well.

>>9311557
Yeah that's sad, we'll never be on a board about literature and philosophy speaking french

>>9311559
Okay you got me. Thanks for the laugh, anon.
But yeah, honestly I did enjoy reading ASOIAF. As I said it's effective, and pleasing. I just felt like it was a "guilty pleasure" more than an """intellectual""" one. No problem with that though.

>>9311588
Gotta wonder what French people who can't read English even do on the Internet. There's nothing there. Maybe it's better for them actually.

>>9311614
that was me in the early naughts, before I learned English and started hanging out with you fags.

you'd be surprised just how big the French subset of the internet can be.

>>9310628
I left some out of my post because I was on mobile and typing on it was hell, so I kept my views concise. I'm just saying if he wants to write a story and doesn't provide background information to central points of the plot then it isn't a well written or realistic story. That's like reading Catcher in the Rye and not knowing why Holden keeps getting kicked out of school or reading Harry Potter and not knowing how his parents died.

>>9312077
>all these strawman parallels

>>9312077
>feudalism is a central plot point in ASOIaF
Go home, you're drunk.

>>9312290
>What is the Iron Throne
Did you guys read the books? The whole Lannister subplot had to deal with feudal succession, and themes of feudal fuckery are present everywhere within the books. So yes it is a big plot point

>>9312243
Where did I simplify your argument? Do you know the meaning of a strawman or are you using that as a buzzword to discredit my statement.

>Le fantasy war of the roses man
His prose is quite pedestrian but I enjoyed it for whatcit is

>>9312365
I'm not either of those guys, so real question: is English not your first language, or are you self-taught? Because you seem like you just looked up what a strawman is on Wikipedia and have no understanding of what the term means beyond the first sentence of the article.

>>9312422
English isn't my first language

>>9307155
no. i kinda liked the tv show so i went out and got the first two books and thought they were boring as shit with boring characters.

i should have trusted /lit/. i should not have wasted my time on that garbage. i don't even watch the show anymore either since i've learned that far better tv shows exist.

>>9307167
Pretty will written tbqh, the characters are very believable. Keep at it anon, you could write a full length novel one of these days and I'd buy it, honest (although you'd have to laud it around here and I don't know if you want that 4chan stench stained into your work).

>>9312557
Yep, I felt something. The story relies on shock value of breaking taboos, but the setup was good.

>>9307155
>gets dosh and praise like he is some kind of literary god
That's completely untrue, except the dosh part. People say he's entertaining and that's about it.

>>9311614
Yeah I guess YouTube which is becoming the new TV, that's really sad

>>9307326
Yeah you probably haven't been with many women brah. It can also work in reverse as well.