/lit/ - Literature

boats

UNSPEAKABLE EVIL

swords + magic

Wise old men
Farmboy saves the world with secret powers he never knew he had
Names with apostrophes

>>917081
Don't ever tell someone to keep magic out of a fantasy novel. Because that's retarded.

>>917086
magic is a cliche

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>>917088
So are sentences. Man, those are in EVERY book.

Alright... OP here. Nevermind.

>>917100
no sentence is the same dipshit, the content can be though

also:
Don't ever tell someone to keep robots out of a science fiction novel. Because that's retarded.

Fuck magic. Avoid at all cost.

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>>917115
Thanks for making my point for me.

Don't avoid swords and magic. Just make them unique. Does it have to be steel swords and scrolls of spells? No. They can be scrolls of swords and steel spells.

>>917077 What cliches should be avoided at all costs?

The biggest cliche? European medieval society and technology. It's always nothing but lords, peasants, swords, bows, chain mail, and horses.

How about some fucking steamships and rifles? How about the fucking Stone Age? How about magical computers?

Nah, that would to be hard...

... so it's always nothing but lords, peasants, swords, bows, chain mail, and horses.

>>917188

Word.

fantasy is cliche - avoid writing a fantasy novel.

Orcs and elves and other common fantasy creatures. They are boring as fuck.

>>917188
Actually, there are guns and steamships. They fly.

>>917084
names with apostrophes only SOMETIMES work.

I mean, just like how it works on certain Earth cultures, to emphasize its (bad choice of words) outlandishness.

But yeah, overkill is never good.


The cliche that always got me was not farm boy, or hero's quest, or magic, it was making a fantasy novel basically a carbon-copy of a Tolkienian world.

With elves, and dwarves that so have to hate elves, kingdoms, and orcs...

Every time I see it, I say to myself "are we really still doing THIS?"

I mean, Lloyd Alexander wrote some great fantasy. So did David Eddings. And neither of them relied on Tolkienian tropes, at least not to the extent that you see in modern fantasy.

I'd almost go as far as to say pre-Tolkienian fantasy nearly trumps most examples of post-Tolkienian fantasy (excluding a few). I mean, read "The Worm Ouroboros", the greatest (imo) pre-Tolkien fantasy and see how much we've lost as a genre.

So yeah, lay off the whole carbon-copy Middle Earth.

>>917223
Agreed, that's why I almost hate the fantasy label nowadays.

>>917219 Actually, there are guns and steamships. They fly.

Fuck. You really do need help, don't you?

Flying steamships? How very original of you. No one has thought of that before, so what should we call this genre you've created? Steam-something obviously. This twist means you'll really be punking all those lame medieval fantasy writers... That's it! We'll call it Steampunk!

Wait a minute...

Yeah, a cliche is a cliche, OP. Using one that's 20 years old isn't any better than using one that's 80 years old.

Quit basing your stories on role playing games and fucking THINK for a change.

Clichés you should avoid?

Writing a fantasy novel, for one.

>>917270
but arcanum was so inspiring!!

>>917270
Sure as hell punked you. I should make a genre out of this...
/lit/punking...
Yeah, I'll go with that.

>>917084
>Farmboy saves the world with secret powers he never knew he had

At first I read it as "femboy saves the world with secret powers he never knew he had". What the hell is wrong with me :/

>>917301
Too much time on /b/.

>>917302
Isn't /b/ homophobic as fuck?

>>917314
i havent lold so hard in weeks

>>917301

too many jappo rpgs

Last stands, small army of good defeats the giant army of evilness.

>>917077
What are the names of your major characters?

>>917333
MOMENT OF TRUTH TIME

>>917333
Ethan, Elena, Matt, April.
Among others.

Power in (true) names.


That shit is just retarded. A good modern example of this bullshit is Shai'tan in WoT.

black and white separation of good and ebil.

>>917355
That's exactly what I started writing the book to avoid. I hate evil characters with no motives other than being evil.
EVERYONE has a motive, and I'm trying to explore that.

>>917366
"Lol blood" is a motive too. You just need to be murderously insane to have it.

>>917347
Trying adding “ounous” “onious” or “anous” to the end of your character’s names. Adding "anous" to the end of anything makes it magical.

>>917370
"Ethanounous"?

>>917369
It's also less plausible when you're the Queen of a country.
Actually, not so much. I just don't like it.

>>917394
In your case, I would suggest Ethounous, Elenanous, Mattonious or Aprilanous. You're welcome.

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read joseph campbell "the hero with a thousand faces" and try to avoid all of it

See that guy? he's holding fire.
See that chick? she's naked.

if you ask me OP, that's the making of a good book. No one cares what else is in it.

A kid who goes out against an empire and becomes a herp.

>>917440
Avoided that, most main characters fight FOR an empire. Or an opposing empire. or another opposing empire.

make it extremely fucking racist, even if it is elves and orcs and shit, make clear devisions, and racial supiriority and shiz, you dunt really see much of that

>>917440
>and becomes a herp.
>becomes a herp.
>a herp.
>herp.

OP

Novelize Drakengard.

I swear it doesn't confine itself to the norms of fantasy writing.

>>917448
lol'd my ass off.

avoid using crazy names
you'll just end up sounding like everyone is from norway or some crap

>>917431
This. The world needs more sword-and-sorcery.

1. A world doesn't need 64665 races. If you *need* more than one, invent it yourself. I sure as hell don't want to read any more books about the big rivalty between elves and dwarfes. It pisses me off.

2. The antagonist shouldn't be only evil. It might make a book easier if you perfectly know all the time who's the good and the bad guys. Still, it's boring, because you know who will win in 99.99% of all books anyway.

3. Fantasy world? Try to make magic actually innovative, if you introduce it. A fireball is fucking stupid. If you can cast magic, you might as well light the dude directly, without throwing a ball around.
Also, if you limit magic, give reasons for it. I don't get why the all powerful mage just can't kill a city with a snip of his fingers (and if he's so evil, why he doesn't do it).

4. NO EVIL MASTERPLAN

5. No hero + sexy sidekick = relationship sooner or later

I guess the list could go on forever. There's a list somewhere out there what a hero / antagonist should do (tips for the evil overlord or something like this). Read it, it would help a lot of books if the authors did so.

Don't make the protagonist go on any missions to kill rats in basements.

>>917370
How about Gapinganous?

no "lolyourthechosenonesaveworldnowplzkthxbai"-character

Any good writer avoids all of these on his own. These are terrible suggestions.

>>917565
No shit.

ORCS

Floating worlds; the 'Gods roll the dice of human fate' scenario.

What about a hero who finds out he has some great power. So he embraces his newly found power and goes on a quest to "fix" his world. Through his travels however, he discovers that humanity is corrupt at the core and there is no way to create the utopia he seeks. So instead he chooses to destroy everything. How's that?

Never become a fat lazy bastard who dies before he is finished writing his series.

>>917743

You posted the wrong picture, bro.

No magic

No orcs

No elves

Final destination

>>917722
That's just stupid

Avoid black and white morality. I should be able to see that the antagonist has a clear motive (something realistic...no one does anything for the evulz). Also, antagonist does not necessarily mean "bad guy". It just means that their interests conflict with the protagonist's.

I am going to write a fantasy book.

I will take every suggestion you have given and completely invert them.

It will be the most fantasiest fantasy ever. It will be so cliche it shits dwarwen coal.

It will be called "Swords and Sorcery and Elves and Stuff"

Nobel prize, gimme.

Avoid making pseudo intellectual political, religious, psychological,... conclusions or writing that something means something.

"As I saw her face, I knew this was meant to be" the fuck you didn't, shit happens, nothing means anything, get your oprah shit out of my books.

Trying to avoid cliches for the sake of avoiding cliches is so cliched.

>>919173
Yes! We need more farm boys beating evil masterlords. Fuck you people. They are quite good.

Keep every single fantasy cliché, but just change them so they are unique to your story.

>>919246
This would probably be the most succesful. Except for the high-nosed /lit/.

lack of sex.

>>919173

this. don't think about what cliche's to avoid; just write whatever your imagination leads you to write.

>>917743

The guy obviously has more important things to do.

LORD WIZARD, HOW MAY I SAVE THE WORLD

MY NAME IS JOHNNY SECRETPOWER. I AM HALF ELF AND HALF HUMAN. I MUST GO ON A QUEST TO SAVE THE WORLD FROM EBONY DARKNESS RAVEN WHATEVER.

Now subvert that. It will be glorious.

fantasy novels hahahahaaha
How about avoid the entire fucking genre and start writing sci-fi.

>>921657

>>921657
>Implying that's a separate genre

>>921664
lol stupid fucking fantasy lover thinks sci-fi is the same
nope

>>921665
Explain.

>>917074
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>>921683
sci-fi is about starships and big explosions.
Fantasy is about romance and retarded magic cliches

>>917722
sounds nice, but has also been done before. Not a fantasy novel though.

>>919066
Christopher PaoPao beat you to it :(

only he was being serious

>>921689

>sci-fi is about starships, SPACE MARINES, alien sluts, and big explosions.

Fuck yeah.

Don't have magic, magic just fucks everything up.

"It's Magic I don't have to explain shit" always ends up happening. You never get a feel for what magic is, how it works, what its limit are, how it's used.

When it's used in a story it will either be overly vague or seem like deus ex machina and poor writing.

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>>921722
Trying to quantify things just ruins the story. All explanations provided by authors will be illogical and inferior.

>>917722
So like, escape from LA? done by sci-fi and DONE BETTER TOO

>>917075
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Read Perdido Street Station. It's a great example of a book that manages to be fantasy while completely avoiding the "sword and sorcery" cliches.

Op, read The Gods of Pegāna.
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/8395

Also, make your protagonist unique.
Avoid and subvert cliches in an equal measure.
How about making the antagonist a young adult farmboy that's going around with his band, slaughtering the kingdom's subjects in an attempt at a revolution, and the protagonist the man in charge of holding the kingdom together, trying to minimize the bloodshed at all costs.

>>917722
Sounds like the plot to a jrpg.

Medieval fantasy is boring and old hat. Try something more tribalistic, complete with weird taboos, creepy gods and a healthy dose of brutality.

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Read EVERY. FUCKING. POST.

Live by them.

>>917073
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http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

Take this to heart.

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>>921817
>59. I will never build a sentient computer smarter than I am.
Good thing I got this now. Was just about to write it into my epic fantasy novel.

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>>917481
Exactly? Like, how many non-human races are in a Steven Erikson novel?

OVER 9000

>>917073
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I'm all for inventing new races. At least you don't have any presumptions about them.

It appears to me that most fantasy novel try to adopt what authors think might be social structures of a medieval Europe. Avoid that, try to imagine anything new.

Then, just DON'T write a book where women are absolutely not emancipated but for some unknown reason one country just has an all powerfull queen.

Don't make it too "heroic".

Try not to write like a 14 year old boy imagining to be a hero.

I like cliches.

I've come to conclusion. Write two books. One with cliches, one without.

Don't make it a battle "good against evil". Don't make evil characters look ugly and good characters look beautiful.

There have only ever been 7 books written.

What Tolkien did?
DON'T DO ANY OF IT.

Avoid using Randomly Made Up Proper Nouns of Ithoria every paragraph.

Try to make up some kind of crazy monster.

Political intrigue isn't done well enough in a lot of fantasy, because it's not particularly fantastic or magical or action packed, but it's usually a good plot element when done right.

Don't make your characters invincible - the difference between children's fantasy and adult fantasy is often that the main characters in children's fantasy books don't really have any accountability for their actions. Wizards cast infinite spells. Warriors can fight for hours without getting a scratch, or completely losing stamina. Make your characters actually have to work for their rewards.

>>922209
This is how you will become the favourite author of three people.

>>922246
Unfortunately sounds about right. :(

Make your main character a hero, and by hero I mean a hero in the sense of the old epics. Avoid the christian-medieval quest for purity motive and make your protagonist flawed, human and even worse at keeping to any code of ethics than his/her antagonist. But do remember the bad-ass and don't cross over into whining anti-hero territory.

honestly, there is no brand new idea anymore, no matter what you write, whether it's elves and faires, or evil magician living in new york. all of fantasy is a rip off of something that came before it.
alot of these comments give good ideas, but the best advice i can give you is, write whatever comes from your heart, that way you know it's yours. if it rips something off, or it sucks. at least you know you did your best, right?

haha that was a bit gay.
just write whatever you wanna write dude. nobody can tell you what to avoid and what to lean towards.

robert jordan = fag

>>922566
That was... inspiring! I'm going to farm boy to an hero.

surprisingly good article on i09 about this topic today. usually they're shit but this is worth reading.

I have read billions of fantasy and every single one of them has been great. I don't know, maybe I just like the genre. I accept everything there's in the story.

Instead of ripping off Tolkien or medieval history like 99% of fantasy authors, rip off The Elder Scrolls, specifically Morrowind.

>>922566
Now you're thinking like Christopher Paolini.

>>923384
wait wat

Rip off what you think is good. You will be happy with your book. Fuck anything else.

>>923384
The Elder Scrolls isn't unique in it's setting. At all. It's just that it's very well realized, and all the quests are TWEESTS EVERYWHERE, which distracts you from the fact that the Dark Elves are Dark Elves and the Mages are Mages.

>>923550
>The Elder Scrolls isn't unique in it's setting.
>I can't read
I said specifically Morrowind.

>>923755
His point still stands.

People stick to what they know, guys. Cliches sell.

Christ, this thread has been up a long ass time.

>What cliches should be avoided
READ THE FIRST 1200 PAGE TOME OF THE 20 VOLUME LEGEND OF THE ELFSTONE SAGA

>>923910
It's because secretly everyone wants to write a story about a magic wielding hero ridin on dragons and slashing evil wizard lords. ITT we try to make it without losing our faces.

>>917270

Just because something has been done many times doesn't mean it's a cliche--Steampunk is a genre, it's not any more cliche than if you write a novel where the characters are people.

Also, I think it's fine if a story contains a FEW cliches. You could still write an original story about a farm boy who has secret powers and rises to fight evil. The problem is when too many things are cliche, or happen the same way. If your farm boy has the power to be a super warrior guy who can use the fancy ancient sword and is guided by the old mysterious wise guy and rescues a princess who helps him defeat the main bad guy in a final battle and then he marries the princess and they all live happily after, than yeah that's way too cliche.

But the farm boy's secret power could be something more original and unique, something that needs to be used in clever ways to defeat the bad guy. Like, I dunno, say he can kill someone with his mind if they've lied within the past ten seconds, but if they haven't then he'll die. Or he can travel to his own dimension which is like a weird energy maze and he can come out of any mirror in the world. These are just examples. It could also be something much better.

Also, Fantasy novels don't have to also be Adventure novels. Look at something like Death Note, which is kinda like a fantasy thriller/cop drama. Try taking your favourite non-speculative genre and add fantasy elements to it and see what you can come up with.

>>924574
And should be.

> ask /lit/ what to avoid when writing fantasy
> /lit/ answers avoid basically everything that is even remotely fantasy

>>917077

Create interesting, original and dynamic characters and give your main protagonists/antagonists a rich inner life, letting the reader be privy to their thoughts. Write a story where nobody comes out clean, where a character does honorable and disgusting things by turn. Give your characters real flaws, not Mary Sue crap like 'he doubts his ability' or 'she cares too much.' Avoid chivalry, it's boring.

>>925876
Maybe that should tell you something

>>925876

I now feel the sudden urge to go and install Planescape Torment. Fuck you very much.

>>925918
it tells me that /lit/ hates everything that's not pretentious "high" literature.

>>925934
But that game is boring lol

>>925936
Sure, if that's what books about people doing things that can actually happen in reality are called

>>925937
but hurp durp lol

I too have been thinking about a writing a novel lately. About a man who ascends to a God in a universe similar to ours but with a polytheistic religion... that's real.

>>925939
no, that's called boring shit no one wants to read about. I was more thinking about Kafka and the likes.

>>925948
have you read the avatar trilogy? One of the view D&D books that are actually quite good. Story is about how the mortal Cyric became the god of deception.

>>925952

Nope. But... D&D isn't "modern".

>>925952
The Avatar trilogy was good? WTF are you talking about?

>>925952

The Avatar trilogy is overall a nice read but goddamn "Shadowdale" - the first novel - appears to be written by a dyslexic twelfth grader. I bought Tantras and Waterdeep about 5 years ago and only recently stumbled upon Shadowdale and was honesty amazed at how bad it was.

Also: the "Erevis Cale" Saga by Paul S. Kemp about a badass butler/assassin on his way to become an immortal Chosen of Mask.

>>925948

I heard Steven Erikson wants a word with you ´bout mortals "ascending" to godhood.

Don't make the protagonist a female.

>>926058
it can be done quite well.

>>926058

I've yet to read any of his books. After googling him, he appears to write in Ye Olde times. Once again, modern, I say, modern!

>>926058
Better idea: don't make any character a human

>>926151

COROLLARY:

If you're going to write a novel in which humans and humanoid creatures interact, for fuck's sake, don't be a furry and make all humans universally evil, universally strong, or all cowering and whimpering under the heel of their non-human masters.

Even James Cameron was not safe from this gaffe, so your mileage may vary.

>>917074
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>>926175
it is only logical that if there are 2 highly intelligent different species that one is going to suppress the other. So yes, it either has to be the strong humans destroying and enslaving everything else or the weak humans being destroyed and enslaved by a even stronger/more intelligent race. That's not a cliche, that's how nature works.

Writing a fantasy novel is itself cliche

>>926189
Ugh. SHUT. UP.

>>926188

If the status quo changes, I'm okay with this.

If everything remains the same, it's unrealistic. The scenarios you're describing never last.

>>926196
They can last hundreds of years, which will most likely surpass the length of time in which a story takes place.

>>926202

If you say so.

I couldn't think of any instances in history where one faction managed to maintain absolute, unchallenged supremacy. Even Rome couldn't constantly war with its neighbors and chew up its surroundings. But what do I know, I'm a dumb tripfag.

>>926233
Dude, Rome lasted for hundreds and hundreds of years. Find another counterpoint.

>>926254

As far as I recall, even Rome had to respect their neighbors to a degree. They didn't just run around, killing, pillaging, slaving, and raping everywhere.

>>926260
that's a stupid example anyway. How about men oppressing women for hundreds of years?

>>926309

To the best of my knowledge, men didn't wholly destroy and/or enslave women, unless you're going to pull the whole feminist angle on me and say that weddings are a form of slavery, or that they were less than human in the eyes of men, etc

>>926343
The middle east, perhaps? From the dawn of civilisation there till now women are still oppressed heavily.

>>926533

Yes, and notice the pressure on them for it.

I imagine there would be protests and condemnations of similar nature in our imaginary world.

Fantasy is high literature.

>>926614
>Dual wielding wands on top of speed boats

>>926614
that shit was so funny

>>917440
A herp, you say?

>>926614
>>927662

Is OP in here anymore? What have you learned from this thread?

All of them.

>>917447

High Fantasy is probably the most racist genre in fiction.

>>927822
Elaborate.

what do you guys think of comedic fantasy? Other than Pratchett I can't think of anyone else who does it.

>>928012
Comedy+fantasy? Does it work? The only example I've read is the hitchhaikers guide.. and those books are awesome.

>>928377
well hitchhikers guide is more sci-fi than fantasy. The discworld books are pretty much the only comedy fantasy I know and they are pretty damn awesome. At least some of them.

>>928408
Tried figuring it out but I didn't. What order should those boks be read in? Talking about discworld..

>>928422
the color of magic is probably the best start to the series. You get to know the world and the kind of humor and storytelling of Pratchett. If you don`t like that one, you won`t like the others either.

Most of the discworld books are finished stories, there isn't some epic main story that runs through many books like in other big fantasy series. So you can really read them in any order you like.

>>928422
Chronologically.

Short people.

>>928470
Racist.

What do you think about fantasy novel that take place in ~our world? Like His Dark Materials?

>>917722
>How's that?
sounds like you kinda just ripped the plot of Soma Bringer.. of Avalon Code, I can't remember which but it was another jRPG on the DS.

>>930649
Fucking love His Dark Materials. Is AH-mazing.

Writing is a cliche. Avoid writing at all costs.

>>917077
Actually write an engaging story with a coherent plot instead of vaguely disguising what is in all actuality a wankfest for your unique and beautiful setting.

Way too many amateur writers suddenly forget the importance of a decent plot when all the awesome people start doing awesome things in their awesome setting full of awesome monsters. Really people, J.R.R. Tolkien, one of the most loved fantasy writers, still catches shit from critics because of his settingwank.

>>928449
Your mileage may vary, though, as gods play the lives of mortals and, since they've lost manual, the game can go on forever...

>>930702

Mostly that.
Make sure your story is a story about the characters, what they do and how it affects them.
When you're getting into fantasy it's all too easy to make it all about your AWESOME FANTASY WORLD with a thousand years of lore and history, but you need to keep in mind that *anyone* can write a novel like that. The nuances of fantasy should be subtle, and relevant to what's happening at the time.
Don't write a fantasy novel, write a story that happens to be set in a fantasy world.

How come the main character in a fantasy novel is always sucky? It's the side characters that are intruiging and cool.

>>928449
DO NOT start with Colour of Magic. Too much LOLRANDUM and plotless fantasy fanwankery.

Read one of his better more satirical novels, The Truth, Thief of Time, Night Watch, Monstrous Regiment, Thud!, any of those really.

>>928422

>>931262
Book of the New Sun, Sad Tale of the Brothers Grossbart, House of Leaves, Shriek: An Afterword, His Dark Materials, and A Song of Ice and Fire are all fantasy novels that actually do have intriguing main characters.

Whatever you do OP, avoid defeating the Big Bad Evil Guy by takin the Object of Power to the Palce of Doom, or using magical swords or stuff like that.

>>931370
apparently, i can't type.

Lord, is this thread still alive?

>>931361

>Severian
>not boring as fuck

he's a conditioned fucking death machine, he's about as interesting as paul atreides

>>931361
I just started reading His Dark Materials. I hope you're right.

The technology in The Dark Materials is fascinating.

boats

This thread has been up for four goddamn days.
Holy shit.

>>932922
/lit/ loves fantasy. It is such high literature we cream over it.

>>932932
Yes, we do indeed cream over Jose Luis Borges and Lewis Carroll.

>>932932
Case in point

>>932949
I didn't like Gulliver's Travels.

>>933115
Where does he even travel?

>>935624
Strange and far-off lands.

>>935639
Sounds like fun. I like this guy.

>>921697
Paopao is a dick. There was a book signing going on at my local Borders and he was being a pretentious little fucktard.

Don't make up new languages that have way too many apostrophes and consonants smushed together.

>>930702

This is what's proving challenging for me, especially when most of the reading I've done the past few years has been nonfiction.

Feels too easy to slip into one of two archtypes for fantasy - either a big goddamn war's going on, or there's some great evil that's arising.

200

I don't know if this has been said already, AND I DON'T EVEN CARE. IT NEEDS TO BE SAID AGAIN.

OP, don't have some retarded ass story where the hero needs to collect different relics or portions of the same relic from all across the world. That shit makes a good framing device for DnD, but it is done to death in all forms of narrative. You can involve travel, sure, but for God's sake give the hero an original reason to move from place to place.

>>935654
Do elaborate, I'd like to hear more of this incident.

I've developed a fantasy series that slowly evolves into high fantasy throughout the series as the society advances, and a goddess grows in power.
It starts from urban fantasy and develops from there.
The last book is Steampunk/High Fantasy.

Thoughts on the premise?

>>935947
Like pretty much anything, it depends on whether you can write it skilfully. Sounds as though it'll need a LOT of editing/revision if you're new, otherwise it'll come off as cliché.

>>935982
I've also tried to plan out each book realistically, where a big war doesn't hinge on just one person, or a small group of people, at least not the main characters.
That, and the world doesn't revolve around them. Shit's going on they often have nothing to do with.

>>935995
Sounds good. I hope you know how to write it.

OP first you must be able to write a short story before you can write the multi-volume epic you've been dreaming of
Doing this teaches you the craft
Characterization, prose, dialogue, plotting, structure, etc.
Submit works to the few and far between Science Fiction & Fantasy magazines that still manage to scrape by, this may involve submitting to online fanzines that pay little or nothing.
Do you have an education in literature and writing?
If the answer is 'no', consider English/Literature courses at local education institutes, writing workshops at Science Fiction & Fantasy conventions, etc.

ELVES

I could take another dwarf but if I heard about another elf I'd put it away

Magic

>>935624
A place ruled by people as teeny as your pee pee.

>>937698
> OP first you must be able to write a short story before you can write the multi-volume epic you've been dreaming of
Total crap, a short story is a step UP from a novel

okay i have an idea what if there is a fat kid who is very lonely so then he decides to use an army of the dead to attack his hometown for the lulz but his army is stopped by the gay pride parade

>>937797
Hahaha, THIS. You know what, you should write that yourself.
If Carlton Mellick III is published and has a market, you DEFINITELY can.

>>917458
Brofist for Drakengard.

For those of you (probably all of you) that haven't played it. I'll explain this game.
-Protagonist (see picture) is a really fucking angry most of the time and addicted to murder.
-Protagonist's sister wants to fuck him but he isn't into it.
-Your allies include a blind pedophile, a baby eating elf widow and a kid that blamed everything on his sister so that she would get the shit beaten out of her and not him.
-There is a stage devoted to killing children.
-One of the 5 endings involves giant naked babies raining from the sky.

>>937834
HOLY SHIT THIS SOUNDS FUCKING BADASS.

>so, I'm writing a fantasy novel. What cliches should be avoided at all costs?

The fantasy genre.

>>926260
the last roman emperor died in 1832, fucking long rule.

I think OP left guys.

>>937925
I think that was the last Holy Roman emperor, douchefuck.

>>937949
okay, whatever, was still a long time, okay?

>>937944
Actually I stop by from time to time just to be amazed that this is still up.

China Mieville does a good job of subverting cliches. "Perdido Street Station" had compelling characters, a weird and intriguing plot, and was situated in a unique fantasy world. His later novels placed in the same world have, I think, lacked similarly strong story lines, but the setting itself is so fascinating that I didn't much care (ex. the probability sword in "The Scar" MADE MY HEAD EXPLODE).

Even "The City and the City," which wasn't placed in that setting, has compelling fantastic-elements. It's essentially a noir-ish crime novel, but much more.I haven't read "Kraken" yet, but it sounds equally interesting.

Honestly, I grew up reading fantasy, but eventually became disenchanted with the predictability. Writers like Mieville have reignited my love affair.

Nothing should be avoided AT ALL COST. Write anything you want, but you better make it fucking fabolous because there's always a cost.

>>917491
haven't lold that hard in fucking ages

>>938663
Took you long enough to get it...

Fantasy novel can't be good if it doesn't have a university of wizards.

>>941383
Like in the Black Magician Trilogy, which I really really liked.

>>942155
I mean, it has a gay magician! Can't go wrong with that.

I'm going to write a story which involves our world realistically but a bunch of things are fucked up. an example being: Roving packs of brooklynfags that instead of barking like most predatorial pack animals go "OOooohAyyyyyOOooooh" while the females go chatter like hyenas.

good vs evil. Make the bad guy easy to understand (as in, why he is 'evil'), and the main character ambiguous.

it's time for an oscar wilde thread /lit/. what do you think of him?

he's by far my favourite writer. i just read 'the soul of man under socialism' (http/:/flag.blackened.net/revolt/hist_texts/wilde_sou.lhtml) and found it incredibly intruiging.

>>942385
The fuck is this shit, seriously? This is the weirdest spambot I have ever seen.

DCS: On fait de /lit/ un endroit francophone.

stay away from cliche elements.

I'm thinking o fwritnig a Harry Potter/ Sherlock Holmes "crossover" where Harry gets into Holmes wihle he is living with the Dursleys. Because he loves Holmes so much Harry decides to copy him and his methods, which turns him into a deduction machine before he enters Hogwarts. Then he proceeds to point point out hows tupid and incompetent everyone in the series is.

Make sure that every occurrence has some point behind it. I've read fantasy books where the author spends 50 pages describing a character and their action, only to have them die and then not tie the death into the larger story. Cool, you painted a vivid picture in my mind, but you just wasted my fucking time as well.

Also, try not to set the story in medieval times.

I'm writing a fantasy novel presently, OP, but there's no magic. The main character travels through time due to circumstances he doesn't realize until later. Leftover technology appears to be magic, but it's underutilized. A fantasy novel can even include dragons where no magic exists and still fully be fantasy.

I really hate magic as a device in literature unless its rules are understood entirely by the reader. If you can create a magic system that doesn't exist just to help you bridge one part of the plot to another, you might do alright.

Good examples would be things like Fullmetal Alchemist or the Night Angel Trilogy (which wasn't written as well as the world was built).

>>942482
OP asks "What cliches to avoid?"
/lit/ answers "Avoid cliches"

Nice.

Don't write genre fic unless you're doing it for the money/fame. Write with your own vision in mind and worry about if other people like it later. Coming up with your own ideas/combining old ideas in new ways will make you a better writer and a stronger person.

>>942590

I am assuming he meant elements as in like, water, fire, air, etc. as the basis for magic and stuff.

>>942955
Cliche elements suck. I wish the would be books which didn't contain water, fire, air and earth. Can't you people even try to be original?

>>943048
Maybe books could be written on something else than a book.