/lit/ - Literature

>>9278811
It's only in the P&V translations because P&V probably added them in. Some of them don't even make sense because some of the lines don't match the time period. At one point Rodion calls the pawnbroker an "oven-dodger" and the character Peter Trofimovitch doubts "there could ever be 6 million Jews in Europe during the 30's" but he could be talking about the 1830's.

>>9278827
fk u

>>9278827
why did i even bother fact-checking this

>>9278903
>/lit/

>>9278827

hahaha nice

>>9278827
great post

>>9278811
>anti Semitsm that tarnishes his reputation

u wat m8?

>>9278972
whom are you quoting

I think the most overt anti-Semitism can be found in " A Writer's Diary".

bump

>>9278811
Any uncucked Christian would be an anti-semite

>>9279165
this isn't reddit kid

meme arrows have many functions.

>>9279327
This post is correct. In his novels he doesn't show anything against jews, but his diary is much different.

his diaries and personal letters

He didn't hate Jews he was just skeptical of the rich ones.

>>9278827
Audible kek

Dostoyevsky was just a fucking grumpy pedophile. He hated jews, germans (except Schiller) and also raped a little girl.

I think his work should be banned in the west.

>>9280649
>implying Jews shouldn't be hated
>implying Germans shouldn't be hated (except Schiller)
>implying not old enough for kisses

>>9279165
OP

>>9278827
Damn, I thought Raimi stuck to movies

>>9278811
The idea comes from several places in his books where he makes disparaging comments about Jews.

From The Idiot:

>Gavrila Ardalionovitch was angry with Ptitsin because the latter did not care to become a Rothschild. "If you are to be a Jew," he said, "do it properly-- squeeze people right and left, show some character; be the King of the Jews while you are about it."

>Ptitsin was quiet and not easily offended--he only laughed. But on one occasion he explained seriously to Gania that he was no Jew, that he did nothing dishonest, that he could not help the market price of money, that, thanks to his accurate habits, he had already a good footing and was respected, and that his business was flourishing.

There's something similar in Crime and Punishment, but I don't remember it as being this extensive; more of an offhand remark.

>>9280756
>things characters say are always things the author believes

lel

>>9280774
Valid point, but it's not villains stating these things, and there's no rebuke to be found.

>>9280779
And?

Because it's somewhat true. In some of Dostoyevsky's novel you read some remarks about Jews through some characters, and Dostoyevsky never addressed in one of his works how moronic these stereotypes and prejudices are. Dostoyevsky also thought poorly of Germans, and - as a German myself - I partly agree with him, since he addresses the ignorance and spineless stupidity of contemporaneous Germans, which is still a thing here today.

It's a pity that he wasn't as open minded about nationalities and Jews, since he is so open-minded about many philiosophies and the rationale behind them. But you can't always get what you want. If it somehow comforts you: hatred towards Jews and racism was very common until the first half of the 20th century - many people forget that, or don't even realize we're in the middle of a radical cultural shift.

>>9278811
I only read notes from the underground but I imagine that like any critically thinking adult, he just realizes that religion itself is the problem. Faith-based reasoning is slowing down the emotional and intellectual growth of our species all because some kiddos are so uncomfortable with uncertainty that they have to frame their life with storytime from the dark ages.

>>9280819
Hate to break it to ya, but Dostoyevsky was a devoted Christian Orthodox, and all his world literature novels revolve around how salvation is gained through God, and only God alone.

>>9280825
He wasn't preaching a one true religion. He was just obsessed with spiritual things but he is pretty much a heathen. He had some really odd and idiosyncratic beliefs.
There is a difference between faith and religion as an organized institution. He shat on the latter and that is why he hated catholicism so much.

>>9280901
you're retarded

>>9278811

Back then anti-semitism was called common sense

>>9281099
not among jews

>>9281042
Explain further.

>>9280799

>the comments he made about the jews were based on stupid stereotypes!
>the comments he made about germans i agree with, as a german

Jesus christ, the denazification program sure did it's wonders, huh?

>that part in Brothers Karamazov where Grand Inquisitor questions if Auswitz could conceivably cremate that many Jews given that it takes several hours to cremate one body even for a modern furnace
I always thought that part was out of place.

>>9279860
>uncucked
>Christian
Pick one.

>>9281442

or you can pick both.

>>9281442

>>9278811

Anyone who isn't a complete moron dislikes jews. Why do you think they have been hounded throughout all of recorded human history, and across all different races and cultures? For no basis in reality whatsoever?

And the quote you're looking for is this one, from Dairy of a Writer:

>... Now, how would it be if in Russia there were not three million Jews, but three million Russians, and there were eighty million Jews -- well, into what would they convert the Russians and how would they treat them? Would they permit them to acquire equal rights? Would they permit them to worship freely in their midst? Wouldn't they convert them into slaves? Worse than that: wouldn't they skin them altogether? Wouldn't they slaughter them to the last man, to the point of complete extermination, as they used to do with aliens in ancient times, during their ancient history?

And this is exactly what happened with the Jewish-Bolshevik Revolution.

>>9281152
Well, since gambling was legal in Germany, Wiesbaden was basically his second residence. So he could form quite an extensive opinion about Germans. I don't know how often he had to deal with Jews, but anti-Semitism was or still is quite popular since Christianity was founded., and 19th century Europe was no exception.

This is why one prejudice seems more logical than the other one.

So, no, the denazification did never affect me since I was born and raised among Russian migrants, therefore don't identify with the natives at all.

>>9282134

Denazification is saturated within all spheres of German life: school, culture, media, academia, politics, on and on. You cannot avoid the denazification program no matter how much you'd want to, and even worldwide for that matter by similar upbringings in other Western countries.

Also, anti-jewish thought was around long before the Christians.

>>9280784
>>9280779
>>9280774
I'm not sure of this, but literary autonomy, the idea of l'art pour l'art, was not one adopted by the masses, and it really still isn't. Autobiographical ways of digesting books is a more common way for those who are not academics to look at books.

>that scene in Demons where Shatov desperately tries to sell his revolver to the local Jew because his wife is in labor and needs medical help immediately, but the Jew keeps haggling endlessly

Pretty funny scene desu.

>>9282154
>Denazification is saturated within all spheres of German life
So, I cannot avoid it, by I am by no means affected by it. I don't suffer from a lack of spine, like most Germans do.

>Also, anti-jewish thought was around long before the Christians.
I never denied that, I said it became quite popular since Christianity was founded. Because, y'know, the Jews were hunted and banished from their home country after the Christianity became the new cool thing.

In the Brothers Karamazov there was a guy who was a Jewish stereotype.

>>9282174

Wrong, the Romans were still pagan when they sacked Jerusalem during the jewish revolts of ~60 A.D. and when they almost obliterated jews from the earth. Also, the Christians purged much of Pagan Rome and tens of millions of pagans in Europe. You sound like a jew, to be honest, always making it out like they are a persecuted class.

was lebedeff from the idiot not a jewish stereotype?

>>9278827
Why the hell did they hire Raimi to ghostwrite these translations?!

>>9282228
Dude, if you missed the thread: it's still about Dostoyevsky's anti-Semitism. It doesn't add anything disussing history here. I presented my arguments about his prejudices about Germans and Jews, and you didn't address them any further, like the silent cuck you are, and are instead pulling straws to insult me for not knowing what you know. How pathetic can you be? Just swallow your mistake and done, jeez.

Find someone else to argue with and waste his time.

>>9282317

Are you new to imageboards? Divulging from the OP is common, and there's nothing wrong with delving a bit off-topic and branching out to new information every now and then. It's how you can learn some things. I'm not picking on you personally, but if you say something incorrect, like a Christian Rome caused the jewish diaspora to Babylon, why wouldn't you want it corrected? I would want to be informed if I was wrong about something.

I also posted his quote here - >>9282066

So yes, I think he was what is considered "anti-semetic," and his prediction of what would happen if the roles of jews and Russians were reversed (one ruling over the other) came entirely true.

>>9282369
It has nothing to do with imageboards. Conversations usually continue like that. My problem were your insults - I welcome corrections, not if they are from fuckfaces like your present yourself.

Your amateur anti-Semitism is amusing though, I give you that one.

>>9282407

Not him, but...
Your jewishness is so obvious at this point.
>""""amateur anti-semitism""""

>>9282317
>>9282407

>silent cuck
>how pathetic can you be?
>fuckface
>b-but you're the one throwing around insults, not me!!!

Wow, all I said was "you sound like a jew, to be honest." I sure struck a nerve, huh?

>>9282433
Well, I've seen better anti-Semitism. It's funny how I am perceived as a Jew here. Makes me chuckle.

>>9282444
And said I'd be a spineless cuck since I am German and desperately tried to underpin it, don't forget that one. If profanity is more of an insult than what you did, well, then continue using your "courtesy", it doesn't pull anything on me.

My moral-o-meter tells me you're standing on pretty thin ice on that one.

>>9282446

What is "better anti-semitism" to you? All I did was provide a quote from Dostoevsky, which ended up becoming the reality of Russia, and then said some loose things like jews have always been hated throughout all of known human history, which is also true.

>>9282461

I didn't call you a "spineless cuck." Maybe that was another anon; I'm unsure. My first response to you was saying that Germany's denazification is unavoidable if you live there, and I implied that all Western nations have a form of their own "denazification" (i.e. anti-racialism) as well. There is no mention of "cucking" or even of passing judgement on if the said state of things is a good or bad thing. See - >>9282134

>>9282476

Whoops, see >>9282154

>>9282433

>>9282462
Don't forget your conspiracy about the Bolshevik Revolution. I don't better anti-Semitism would look like what's in the picture.

>>9282476
You didn't, but you eagerly suggested it. Like I said, "courtesy".

Can you please go back to /pol/? If not, well, then this is the last time I put up with your shit.

>>9282407
>Uses false historical claim to support Christian persecution narrative

>Is corrected on his bullshit claim

>Immediately changes topic without addressing the fact that his original claim was debunked, insults the anon who corrected him

>Said Anon politely restates his correction to the original bullshit claim

>Once again disregards the fact he was btfo on his false persecution narrative, claims to be insulted and in with unwarranted indignation accuses the correcting anon of anti-semitism.

Post nose faggot

>>9282501

>>9282496
*I think better anti-Semitism would look like what's in the picture.

>>9282496

I didn't suggest or even think internally any such thing, as I try to remain impartial. And since I am impartial, I have no problem acknowledging that the majority of the leaders of the original Bolshevik government were simply jews. It's just the way it is; opinion only takes hold when you opine if that's a good, bad, or neutral thing, but that the jews were the majority of the leaders of the Bolshevik government is just recognized fact from no less than the US State Department of that time, many records of European countries noticing the same, and even an article from Winston Churchill in 1920 commenting on it. Sources will be provided if you're interested.

Also, I come to /lit/ for comfier threads, but as this one was about antisemitism in an amazing author, how can you not expect it? I'm just carrying on the topic and you're just whining =^)

>>9282501

Reminds of this Goebbels quote, hands-down.

i think Зaпиcки из пoдпoлья is alice in wonder land because this novel shake rosia in the underground
(´・д・｀)

>>9282530

Reminds me of this one, myself.

In other words he is crazy trick star
(*￣∇￣)ノ

>>9282519
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism#The_Jewish_Bolshevism

>>9282560

>https://en.wikipedia.org

What a great source you got there, Yitzhak Bergel.

>>9282575
My name is actually Emanuell Rosenstein.

>>9282546

Yes, that too. It's an excellent quote. It's a little different arguing with jews, shills, or just those with the mind of a jew on the internet, though. If you leave things unsaid, the untold amount of lurkers might just think the jew is right, but then you can also still become mired down in their misdirection. You need a lot of energy and patience.

https://www.darkmoon.me/2015/stalins-willing-executioners-jews-hostile-elite-ussr/

>>9282583

At least you finally dropped the act.
The fact that the bolsheviks were mostly jews is not a disputed conspiracy theory, even if you find two or three lines on wikipedia saying so.

>>9282594
Whoah, that was easy.

>>9282602

I like how you're not even bothering to argue anymore, pretty much going through the motions the quote in >>9282546 describe.

>>9282618
>If not, well, then this is the last time I put up with your shit

>>9280819
>Has only read Notes from the Underground
>Thinks he's allowed to have an opinion on ol' dusty skis

>>9280901

Yes, he was. He clearly was advocating to create an amalgamation of Eastern Orthodoxy, socialism, and Russian Nationalism.

>>9279860
>>9280650
>>9282066
>>9282266
>>9282228
>>9282369
>>9282433
>>9282444
>>9282501
>>9282519
>>9282575
>>9282594
Holy fuck, this thread drew a lot of /pol/fags over here.

>>9282685
Not the socialism of his time (or any seen or advocated anywhere at any time) though.

>>9278827
What the fuck

>>9282182
Who? Rakitin?

>>9282716

I know. I'm not even Christian, but his vision would have been glorious over what really happened to Russia and the world.

>>9282697

>hehe, the jews aren't the most powerful ethnic group on the planet, goy! That's hate speech, oy vey! That's a mad conspiracy! Follow along!

Sure...

http://www.jta.org/2009/10/05/fundermentalist/at-least-139-of-the-forbes-400-are-jewish

http://thezog.info/list-summaries/

Regarding the JQ, you have only a few options: you don't care, you like it, or you don't like it. But that they are the most influential group on the planet, especially collective culture/consciousness, is undeniable. Therefore, if you think something is wrong with the modern world, look to who has the most influence, power, over it and study what they're doing. It's basic investigative work.