/lit/ - Literature

I'm sick and tired of half-literate teenagers (often metalfags, but not exclusively) going on and on about 1984 and/or Brave New World and how it "changed their lives."

>my face as a polysci student when Orwell is respected even though his book is thematic fear-mongering without technical know-how to back it up

I'm sick and tired of teenagers not knowing how to greentext properly.

I loved We ;__;

Orwell sucked as a novellist, as even his best two (AF, 1984) were just allegorical, satirical stories alluding to the USSR, which somehow made him be hailed by generations of retard illiterates as a "prophet"
His essays, memoirs and letters are the real shit, though. Second to none.

Huxley and Zamyatin are the real prophets, the pioneers of the then forthcoming scientific, managerialist state. Love 'em all.

>>918639
>pic related

It seems to be that 1984 is more well-written but Brave New World is a more accurate depiction of what to be afraid about in the future. That being said, I think I'd rather have metalfags discussing 1984 and BNW than any other subject they're familiar with. In fact, that's probably a better part of their stereotype that not many high school stereotypical groups get into.

>>918653
>implying BNW isn't a utopia

This tread comes straight out of /mu/. Sorry about that /lit/.

>>918659

!

>>918659

>My face when half-educated nitwits think technology is leading us to the brave new world, rather than improving everything.

>>918639
So he's bad because he didn't provide schematics?

>>918659

At the risk of incurring a trollfest, that was the point of the book.
You can't read, you can't think, you can't reproduce or age, you can't be alone, you can't indulge in quality entertainment, and instead it's all inclusive Feelies, drug sessions and orgy-porgies.
It's all state sponsered entertainment that's meant to create a submissive population that is unresponsive to anything beyond throwaway garbage for entertainment.

Sound familiar?

>>918639

Two-way televisions aren't that farfetched.

>>918688

I think you missed the part where anyone that wants to do those things gets a paid vacation to a tropical island filled with intellectuals. The rest are happier than they could ever be without drugs.

>>918683
>My face when you don't realize it could do either, depending on how it's handled
>Where's my face
>I have no face

well this is awkward.
i fit that description perfectly, apart from the fact that i dont go on about how it changed my life, since it didnt. i thought it was a good book, and il be sure to check out "we" and "A brave new world" once i've finished reading catch-22 and IT

>>918686
He's over-rated because his book is hypothetical science fiction written on a reactionary note that the masses pawn off as political theory

>>918691
They exist, so... you know.

Video phones exist. Same shit. Larger. Mounted on a wall. Guess what we have all of a sudden!

>>918690
I lol'd and stole your post

People who consider BNW to be a dystopia are some of the most incredibly selfish people on earth.
You don't want the vast majority to live in constant happiness because you want to do art and have an 'identity'?
Nice one, you self-centred fucks.

>>918711
Read more interesting books. Also, be older.

>>918718
>hypothetical
Well, yes. That's what makes it "fiction."
>science fiction
Science fiction has predicted future events and technology many times.
>reactionary
As a political science major, you should know that "reactionary" doesn't just mean, "in reaction to something" when used in the context of politics. Orwell was a socialist. Definitely NOT a reactionary.
>that the masses pawn off as political theory
You're a student. Still learning. A massive totalitarian government that brainwashes people is entirely possible. Look at North Korea. As for the possibility of actual brainwashing, the US government certainly seems to believe in it. Read up on Project MKULTRA. And England already encourages people to spy on their neighbors in case they're terrorists.

If Big Brother isn't watching you, it's because you haven't caught his eye.

>>918738
>England already encourages people to spy on their neighbors in case they're terrorists.
>making things up
>doesn't know difference between england and UK

>>918736
What gives them the right to take away my "identity" and art? Numbers?

"After all, the practical reason why, when the power is once in the hands of the people, a majority are permitted, and for a long period continue, to rule, is not because they are most likely to be in the right, nor because this seems fairest to the minority, but because they are physically the strongest."
-Henry David Thoreau

>>918737
i find them interesting.
but what would you recomend?

>>918744
The UK includes England, but England is not all of the UK in the same way Texas is not all of the USA. I'm aware.

For a short time after 9/11, when England was terrified they'd be hit next, they had things up that said things like, "Have you seen your neighbor acting suspicious? Call (number)!" and "Do you look through your neighbors' garbage? You might want to."

1984 is NOT SUPPOSED TO BE PLAUSIBLE. It's taken totalitarianism and stripped it of all its ideology and purpose to show only the lust for power. He's made the state so oppressive for oppression's sake that it couldn't possibly exist.

The only thing you should be attacking is the idea that the middle class will constantly overthrow the upper class and use the lower for fodder.

>>918736
>You don't want the vast majority to live in constant happiness because you want to do art and have an 'identity'?

But the artists get to live on the islands anyway. It's win-win.

>>918758
Not really.

Artists and intellectuals still need to live in the world.

>>918761

Are you implying that "islands" are not a subset of "the world"?

To call Orwell a reactionary is to endorse totalitarianism. OP is a crypto-fascist.

>>918764
You know what I mean, babe.

>>918752

l2bestcorea

>>918688
>implying most people care about or want to engage in reading, indulge in "quality" entertainment, or be alone.

What do you think makes people happy? Freedom? Freedom is certainly attractive, but only by comparison. No, its two things that give the most amount of people the most happiness:
1) drinking, eating, fucking
2) economic prosperity

BNW gives both of these to all people (the lower classes don't have economic prosperity, but they don't know any better). The concept of a "free" society is completely out of the public mind as well, so that temptation isn't there either.

And for those people who are somehow born with those innate desires to seek "deeper" forms of entertainment, well they get shipped to an island where they can do just that!

>>918768

I really don't.

I don't think BNW was just a knock-off of We...

>>918761
No they don't. In BNW, the world gets along quite fine without them.

>>918746
What gives you the right to take away peoples happiness?

>>918751
No, they didn't. I was going to Uni in central London around that time and I NEVER saw one of those posters.

>>918752
If it is not supposed to be plausible then it is a skewed perspective which is useless in real debate. The theme has relevance, but not nearly so much as it is given. Think about it: The book came to prominence during an era where politics where getting polarized east-west. I would hypothetically guess that it became enshrined largely as a result of the fact that it was interpreted as endorsing the west democracies while defacing the soviets. Not necessarily for being a good prediction so much as the fact that it justified the system


>>918765
>implying I am OP
Either-or arguments belong in high school, boi

>>918806

I don't think you understand how fiction works. Orwell was neither Machiavelli nor fucking Nostradamus.

>>918746
Nothing, you can still have an identity and art, you just have to do it on an island where you can't corrupt the majority.

>>918813
The book had a political message at it's core, and that message was skewed and over-hyped. Nothing more to say

>>918818

Enlighten us as to what this message is exactly, and why it is "skewed and over-hyped", then.

BNW is dystopian.

1984 is eutopian.

>>918824
>circular argument
fail

>>918827

There was no argument in that post, wtf dude? Are you hallucinating or are you just a dumber version of stagolee?

>>918826

>eutopian

When you can't defend your opinion, accuse the opposition of logical falacies.

>>918835

It's a word, and it's distinct from utopian.

>>918842

It's a fucking rewording of utopia. That's it.

>>918850

eu- means good.
u- means not.

A utopia is an impossible society.
A eutopia is an ideal society.

>>918850
>he doesn't know the meaning of Greek prefixes!

ou-: not
eu-: good

>>918864
>>918857
>>918850
>>918842
>>918835

And none of that matters because >>918826 is trolling.

>>918857

When utopia is so popularly used to mean an ideal society and not necessarily an impossible one, that's just splitting hairs.

>>918833
>throwing a tantrum because I won the argument by a long shot
my work here is done

>>918869

Well, that goes without saying.