/lit/ - Literature

It's not easy going. Kind of sears something into you and is very intensely emotionally and even physically painful to study. Just attempting to really get your head up into Kabbalah, for instance, at all (and you never 'master' anything, by the way, but strive to undertake some small fraction of a journey) literally hurts your brain... and it feels wrong somehow, like it's remapping the codes of reality for you at such broken down level that it feels sacrilegious, and probably is.

The real significance is that it's about, through practice and study becoming more actively aware of the inner life (not in terms you can really intellectualize this, but it's slowly achieved through contemplation of the metaphors and mysteries it uses and personal growth, in a painful and poetically systematized way). 'Magic', as an intent for this stuff, is crass by the way and incredibly damaging because it's a cheap and cowardly attempt by more wayward types to attempt to game these traditions somehow.

I've had an ongoing study for a long time that began in more loose and playful dabbling in consciousness and then a much more intensive study later on. At this point I don't believe that a relationship with God or any advantage spiritually is gained through esoteric practice, but that salvation is free, and while I'm still interested and kind of dip my toes in the esoteric, it's in more of a passive way just in that I experience reality from that perspective so everything operates from there, but I'm no longer intensely studying it.

My view... it's not for everyone, and probably not advisable at all. Will more likely than not really corrupt you. Just look at occultists these days after all. Largely VERY damaged people.

If you're interested in non-corrupted mysticism, if it's actually for you and not just some thing to fuck around with, I'd say go for Orthodox Christianity. It's the same Mystery knowledge take on things but without the corrupted theology.

>>9140459
Once you realise it's really a branch of psychology, it stops sounding like bullshit. Read Jung.

>>9140459
try this instead:
http://www.ichingonline.net/

>>9140476
In what way does it fuck you up? How do you even start exploring it?

>>9140476
You've certainly made me interested. Can you please give some specific names of oeuvres I should start reading first? Is The idiots guide to alchemy a good way just to get a general idea what alchemy is?
Same with >>9140495

>>9140476
meh. Orthodox Christianity will only result in a transcendence which is dependent on being subordinate to God.

>>9140476
>Just look at occultists these days after all. Largely VERY damaged people.

Really? I was under the impression that the occult was pretty mainstream nowadays. The internet has blown all the secrecy and scandal out of the water. There has been a noteworthy lack of mass psychosis and/or eternal damnation so far.

Of course, coming at it from a strict religious background will make it seem a lot scarier. It will probably feel transgressive and dangerous. It really isn't. It's just an enquiry into how consciousness works, and how it connects with reality.

>>9140639
Yeah? How's Madonna doing? He's not talking about people dabling in it, it's about real known oculists. They all are fucked up one way or another.

>>9140599
As opposed to be a slave of Devil? You know that whole "I'd rather rule in Hells" only pertains to exactly one character?

>>9140639
What has it to do with consiousness? Explain please.

>>9140585
Jung left a huge body of work, but the best place to start is probably "The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious."

In a nutshell, Jung theorised that we all inherit a vast body of ancient lore and memory which he called the "Collective Unconscious." Much of this material is embodied in the form of identities called Archetypes, which we meet in our dreams, and tend to project onto the outside world as gods and spirits. They're embodiments of instinct, wisdom and learning which teach us how to deal with the challenges of survival and evolution.

Occultists were generally people who tried to tap into this Collective Unconscious, and commune with the Archetypes found there. They were really pioneers in psychology, though most of them didn't realise it. It wasn't until the 19th century, when organisations like the Golden Dawn came along, that a more rigorous and scientific approach was attempted. Aleister Crowley was a strong proponent of this, and is well worth reading (if you can stand his company ... he's certainly not for everyone.)

>>9140790
See >>9140793

>>9140769
I hardly think one damaged celebrity constitutes a proof. Madonna was a fuck-up before she discovered Kabbalah.

It's probably true to say that the subject attracts flaky types with extreme personalities, but that doesn't imply a causal effect between the occult and psychosis. Personally, after a decade of study and divination experiments, I feel I've gained nothing but benefits and insights. It's like growing a whole new mental faculty. I've found it a hugely rewarding experience.

>>9140818
But what does it majorly revolve around? Do you cast spells and talk to demons or is it more empiric?

>>9140782
>You know that whole "I'd rather rule in Hells" only pertains to exactly one character?

It doesn't pertain to him either. Satan is punished in hell with everyone else. "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

>>9140459

Alchemy and the occult were good enough for Goethe, so they're good enough for me.

As I recall he went to Italy/etc and studied that shit for years. Plainly evident in Faust.

>>9140828
>Do you cast spells and talk to demons
Not personally. I'm more into theory than practice. What I'm really looking for is self-knowledge and control. Like I've said above, the occult is really just psychology. Once you realise demons only exist in your head, you lose the desire to project one into reality.

There are some practices I've tried though: meditation, dream interpretation and divination. All of these have been worthwhile. I was very surprised to find that divination really works. I've become a tarot enthusiast, though I find that my interpretations are often wrong even when the cards are right.

This has led me to conclude that events in external reality are strongly correlated with events in our heads (Jung called this synchronicity.) I've even got a half-arsed pseudo-scientific theory to explain it, which I won't bore you with. I suppose this opens the possibility of "casting spells," though I've never tried it. It seems like a lot of effort, and all the ritual and mummery feels a bit silly.

>>9140793
Jung privately abandoned the idea that Occultists were early psychologists though.

>>9140926
Please, do bore me with it. Also, recommend me works to read. I've got Alchemy and Mysticism from Taschen. Is it any good?

"Practical Sigil Magic" by Frater UD

Has anyone read Rudolf Steiner?

>>9141029
>Please, do bore me with it.
Kek. To be honest I was wary about sounding even crazier than I have already, but here goes anyway ...

You might have heard of the Many Worlds Theory, which has gained some traction in physics. It posits the existence of many universes in parallel. Every time we're faced with a choice, reality "splits" into different universes, one for each possibility. We effectively select the universe we inhabit by making choices.

Now imagine you're doing a tarot reading. You really believe that divination works (which is a crucial detail, I think.) You envision a future based on the cards in front of you. In effect, you "choose" that future, and enter a reality where it comes true. Suddenly you think you have magic powers, because you're inhabiting a universe that matches your prediction.

(This also explains why tarot experiments by sceptics never work. They aren't really choosing a future, because their commitment is lacking.)

Okay, roast me already!

>Also, recommend me works to read
Jung - The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious
Aleister Crowley - Magick Without Tears
Robert Anton Wilson - Prometheus Rising
The I Ching (best way to get into divination)
Israel Regardie - The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic (rare and expensive, so I've placed this last)

This may seem a little short, but all of the above will suggest further reading. Each is a real can of worms.

>I've got Alchemy and Mysticism from Taschen. Is it any good?
Sorry, don't know it. I dig the Taschen art books though!

>>9140782

Presumably as opposed to someone with a broader and less constrained view of reality.

>>9140459
Get The Magician's Companion: A Practical and Encyclopedic Guide to Magical and Religious Symbolism by Bill Whitcomb

Good overview and explanation of what it all really is, as well as a lot of different systems to try out.

Alchemy is mostly just the precursor to chemistry, but the philosophy behind it can be interesting. I'm not sure it's terribly useful, though.

Occult can be useful.

I've heard that Tibetan Buddhism can be Occultish.

>>9141194
Every religion has a occultic element.

>>9140782
Why be a slave at all? Orthodox mystics literally call themselves slaves of christ. Why do things have to be so black and white? Seems like a very gloomy paradigm to operate in.

>>9141114
>belief can directly affect reality
Dont think so.

>>9141276
Not that anon but of course it can. It's not like woo bolts of lightning magic. Artists believe something and create a work of art, which then exists as a tangible object in reality and has, gasp, an effect! Wow! Political leaders believe x y and z and then enact policies that, get this, affect reality! Crazy!

>>9141276
Reality is subjective. Your perceptions are instrumental in defining reality.

But don't take my word for it - ask a quantum physicist.

>>9140459
try X, they have a occult general with a link to a library for occult books, you could try asking there or just check their link

>>9142026
... and then get out of /x/ as fast as you can.

>>9142095
Agreed

>>9142026
/x/ is full of clueless fluffbunnies absolutely convinced that their own perspective, formed by mainstream media and conspiracy theories and no actual study whatsoever, is the only valid path.

Never go to /x/ for occult.

>>9141346
Yeah and if you get cancer that's subjective too? Retard.

>>9142169
>cancer
I guess you're the expert there, m80.

You might as well collect crystals for their spiritual power, anon.

>>9142164
Not to mention all the premenstrual girls who've just got into Twilight.

I'm interested in exploring the occult, but i'm worried such an endeavor might have me fall from grace with god, in whom I'm not even sure I believe. Advice, lads?

>>9142164
is /r/occult better?

where to find occultists that aren't new agey wiccans or edgy fedora tipping satanists?

>>9142442
The Gnostic Christians were trying to get closer to God through the occult. So were Christian mystics in the Golden Dawn (e.g. Arthur Edward Waite.)

Belonging to a traditional religion doesn't preclude occult study. Just try not to summon Beelzebub or anything ...

>>9140782
What the fuck does the devil have to do with this? Non Semitic religions allow transcendence without the God relationship.

>>9142442

>Advice, lads?

Don't let superstition rule you. Be open, yet critical and discerning. If you think something is bunk or not for you then simply move on.

>>9140828

>Do you cast spells and talk to demons

Anyone wanting to get into the Occult for this reason should stop immediately and avoid the Occult altogether because they are the wrong person for it. At the very least they should wait a few years until they've matured more.

>>9141159
>Alchemy is mostly just the precursor to chemistry
Alchemy was mysticism disguised as chemistry. It was all a metaphor. The disguise was essential, given that practitioners could be burned at the stake.

>>9142442
Perhaps you believe him into being

>>9142555
>Just try not to summon Beelzebub or anything ...
Renaissance Christian hermetics did summon demons, btw.

Under the belief that God gave them dominion over demons much like He gave them dominion over nature.

>>9142836
Holy heck. Think they made it into heaven?

>>9140476
Damn thats a long post man can u tldr it for me thx

>>9142630
But how exactly would you define it, then?
Please don't reply with something vague, be as straightforward as possible, but include your opinion/experience because wikipedia really fails to explain it.

Also, how exactly does this "magic" work?
People defending it usually say it's just a process to getting things done/yourself together, but isn't that just self-determination/will with the help of some mumbo-jumbo?

>>9142932
Not him, but please get the book I mentioned in >>9141159

It has a section near the front titled "What is magic?" that I found immensely useful.

I think you can also read it on scribdb, if you just want to see that section:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/243067102/76402283-The-Magician-s-Companion-Bill-Whitcomb-1993-pdf

>>9142960
Thank you. But how would you answer it? Or is the meaning very definite and unambiguous?

>>9140865
>Alchemy and the occult were good enough for Goethe, so they're good enough for me.

In Goethe's time, most intellectuals and elites were probably studied in some variety of Hermeticism, probably Rosicrucianism in Germany.

I'd still call myself a Hermeticist, but the thing is what passes for that today is usually more of a crass, corrupted system following after the Golden Dawn system and Crowley. As interesting as the Golden Dawn were, they really messed things up.

>>9140639
It's not supposed to be mainstream or easy, first of all. It's difficult and testing and hidden by nature. Popularizing it has had ugly, corrupting results. Also, the internet can't lay bare its secrets, taking certain forms and spreading them around can't do anything to the hidden, but it can create very deranged misuses. See cults and new age. And I'm not talking about "mass psychosis" in some horror film sense, but the cultural and personal effects on those who practice is profoundly ugly. And who says anyone isn't being damned?

And I'm well familiar with the occult community, and they're a fucking mess. Mostly edgelords, freaks, and rebels with daddy issues. It's actually supposed to be the opposite.

By "it" I'm not talking about magic, by the way, but Theurgy and the Great Work. Magic is inherently self-corrupting.

>>9142975
How would I answer it?

Occult is, at its root, hidden knowledge.

To me, on a more practical level, it's information on the supernatural and mystical that you have to work to find. It involves a lot of study and sifting out truth from fiction. There's a lot of popularized garbage out there.

Magic is just psychology. I agreed with the first Axiom in that chapter I mentioned to you 100% before I even read the book. It's the art of changing your perspective to your own benefit at will.

>>9141346
fag brainlet

>>9143106

>>9140459
Yeah and no. It's good for developing an internal library of rhyming ideas/concepts -- the relationship between theatre and ritual, the symmetry between ideas and their common symbols, etc, but you could honestly get that out of studying some of the soft sciences. It's just a bunch of spooky self-important symbols loved by sweaty D&D nerds

thoughts on Peter Levenda's nazi occultism books?

>>9143387
>>9143054
>>9143015
Can you be a little less vague? Fucking hell, can't anyone sum it up and be a little more concrete?

>>9144868
Like I said earlier, it's not a rational kind of knowledge that can be put into words. It's more an immediate kind of worldless knowledge that is inexplicably encountered and experienced. Have you ever done psychedelics and attempted to articulate the things you "knew" on it?

And yet there is, the theory goes, a type of knowledge that's ineffable but supposedly, as certain schools and doctrines claim, can be imparted, engaged with and even acted in through certain means. And I'm sorry, it's vague and elusive by nature, that's why after all it's called Mystery, esoteric, occult. And yet it's very strikingly true and real when you encounter/'know' it, as real and present as 'concrete reality' feels in the hyper-lucidness of being on a lot of meth or coffee.

Reality is actually very withdrawn - but real - and the abundance of 'information' spread technologically affords no more clarity or understanding now any more than pre-internet, and every object or data shared is a mysterious entity in itself. There is no truly clear, definitive, rational or reductive knowledge, ultimately.

>>9142536

Honestly you're going to have to join a secret order for this. I'm not being facetious; that's the best route if you're serious. Good luck and come back here if you gain some cool experiences.

99% of Occultism is trash. I don't even mean that in a 'muh materialism, tips fedora' way. It just doesn't offer anything that philosophy or religion don't do better.

It doesn't help that occultism has this 'magick' aspect to it which claims the ability to manipulate your reality to a certain extent, but all famous occultists are fat, balding, manlets that struggled with substance abuse and died prematurely.
Not a very convincing case.

>>9145690
This

>>9140476
I don't know about literature, but if you want to understand some Renaissance art like Dürer you want to be familiar with the symbolism attached to astrology and alchemy at the time.
There's a good affordable book published by Taschen, check their website.

>>9141114
>>9143054

Any good books you guys know of that deal with the idea of one's perception changing their reality, or controlling your own perception to change your reality, etc.? Don't really care about the occultism stuff broadly, but this idea is interesting.

Giving Satan the time of day. Smh

>>9145690
fuck off
>>9145702
fuck off
>>9145713
fuck off
>>9146065
fuck off
>>9146155
fuck off


im in such a mood

>>9140476
>>9142911
Simply put, there are 3 types of studying the Kabbalah; Meditative, Theoretical, & what OP is referring to which is Practical Kabbalah.
It's an old Jewish tradition but it seems to go against the word of God.
Pic related is a Jewish organization website warning you of its dangers.

>>9146211
Pic related is interesting. Do people really believe in forcing angels to do stuff? And now a real question: is all the 'bad' that comes from practicing this kind of stuff supossed to be only metaphysical (God gets angry, demons try to eat you alive, etc)?

>>9146170

t. Franz Bardon

Is this an elaborate troll thread or are we starting to get runoff from /x/ now?

>>9140476
Can Orthodox Christianity let me cast fireballs?

>>9140459
>occultism and alchemy
Unless you are a scholar of folklore, etc. studying this shit is like studying astrology, flat-earth literature, neo-pagan LARP manuals, Dungeons and Dragons rulebooks, Archie comics, or Woody Woodpecker cartoons.
You might enjoy it, you might impress someone somewhere, but there really isn't anything of value there other than as a hobby.

>>9146211
Is there a single known instance of someone being fucked up by demons?

>>9146734
These kind of things have a natural way of being in the shadows. Speak to anyone acquainted in the occult and its community, though, and you'll hear plenty of stories.

>>9146693
>pic and title related

>>9146821
You mean like John "Kasimir Urbanski/RPGPundit" Tarnowski?
The dude that writes really popular articles about how occultism works, and how he's a wizard, and how to cast spells who, at the end of the day, lives in Uruguay so he can use the exchange rate/cost of living to eke out a pitiful existence on the meagre income he generates selling knock-off Dungeons and Dragons books online?!
Or Alan Moore, the comic book writer and "magician"? Ir the other guys who all claim to be "magicians" and make a living writing comic books?
Are those they guys that can tell us all about the 'secret histories'?

Since when did /lit/ believe in angel summoning?

Even if you don't believe all this, still theres some good reading to be done there.
I remember this part about a curse tablet from ancient egypt where a guy called for his fathers spirit in the underworld to watch him as he sleeps, because a guy who thought he wronged him was watching him as he sleepd and causing him nightmares. I can't remember exactly where I read that, maybe Georg Luck, but it was haunting as fuck.

How do I summon one of the Daoine Sith?

>>9146872
Is she high?

>>9146961
...maybe...

>>9146989
Is that you or are you stalking the poor lady? Either way, this isn't /soc/.

>>9146821
>Speak to anyone that believes that earth is flat and he will claim that earth is flat...

>>9147065
It's almost like reality is subjective

>>9147030
>"I'll take "reaction faces used to make an emotional point" for $100, please, Alex"
How long have you been here, newfag?
That reaction image is 4-5 years old, easy, and I got it off arcanine.

>>9147071
so you think that for some people the earth is actually flat, but it isn't for others?

>>9147072
I googled and didn't find anything.

>>9147071
What the fuck are you on about?
If one believes he is possessed by demons, he is deluded.
I'm trying to understand the point of occultism, but the problem arises because of all the fucking branches. Symbols and the irrational cannot be made into a system, because systems and logic are tools of the rational. The irrational is an extremely interesting field of our "reality", but you cannot treat it like it's intertwined with our physical reality (demons fucking up your mind for example. You are either sick or believe too much in the occult and it has friend your brain. And if you are in this state, demons are real for you, but no objective knowledge can arise from it. I can read the Kabbalah and believe I was possessed after fidgeting with the unknown or take drugs and get the same effect...)

>>9146065
Prometheus rising by Robert Anton Wilson.
It's exactly what you just described. He uses the term "reality tunnels"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn7Zm_DWsSU&t=251s

>>9146734
According to the Jews at this website there has been instances where , I suppose you can say demons, destroy a person. Meditation isn't a Christian practice so we can deduce that meditating isn't following the Word of God and thus it allows us to enter a realm of the unknown.
First bullet point of pic related

>>9147147
have been *

>>9147104
googled *what*, exactly?

>>9147167
the picture.

>>9147147
Yes, the realm of the unknown. But what one finds in the unknown is extremely subjective (of course there are common experiences and phenomena - which we call archetypes). What occultism and religion do, however, is that they try to make all this phenomena into systems. Entities are given names, books are written, rituals performed. For me, this is almost heretical, because it stains the experience of the unknown with empirical procedures.

>>9147167
>doesn't know about reverse image search

how new are you, exactly?

>>9147200
How much free time do you have to not only do a reverse search on a random reaction image you find on a Lilliputian hopscotch forum, but then *ask* about the random subject even after the poster tells you he just copied it from 4chan years ago?

>>9147255
I was wondering if he actually googled
>"reaction faces used to make an emotional point"
I figured it was a 50/50

>>9147285
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=reaction+faces+used+to+make+an+emotional+point+4chan+2012

>>9147295
Yup
Its official
You're retarded

>>9147311
That's my first contribution to that discussion, just helping a newfag

>>9147259
It takes half a second.

>>9140459
Pic related. It's me

>>9143628
>Peter Levenda
how deep does this rabbit hole go

>>9147207
??

>>9140459
don't waste your time
read Ulysses

>>9147346
I unironically look like him, but with short hair.
Kill me.

>>9140495

It's funny how modernists reinvent the wheel of history like the monotheists did when studying the polytheist pagans, appropriate the latter's conclusions and invert them.

If anything, psychology is a branch of the occult.

>>9144868
Yeah sure. So occult ritual is defined as an interplay of symbols to create an emotional reaction. Sumo wrestles throw salt on the ground and stomp to purify themselves and keep out demons. Obviously demons don't real, John, so why are they doing it? To psych themselves up, duh. Ritual is a form of priming to create a certain headspace.

You can compare that to art, particularly stories as well -- language, characters, etc -- all representations to create a certain feeling. Occult ritual is just that boiled down, concentrated, and abstracted.

What I'm saying is that basically magick is self-help jargon. Part of it is willful self-delusion as well. Being able to convince yourself of absurdities means you can convince yourself of anything which makes doing anything possible. Y'know, within limits. This is the same goal as cognitive behavioral therapy as an example. You can't change the world but you can certainly control the way you see it.

The idea of symmetric or rhyming ideas is probably the most obvious. It's a way to encourage creative thinking. What is the loose relationship between one thing and another?

For instance, you could ask yourself why eyes are such universal symbols for godhood, or why Kronos devours his son. On a more subtle level you could ask why chamomile is used in good luck charms or why it's often associated with solar work.

All of these are things you could get out of a standard liberal arts education tho. There's nothing really special about it. It was popularized in part due to Crowley and his clan of bored trustafarians.

All the occult is or ever was was mundane, albeit lateral, thinking dressed up in spoopy prose. It's LARPing for burn-outs.

>>9148281

>Sumo wrestles throw salt on the ground and stomp to purify themselves and keep out demons. Obviously demons don't real, John, so why are they doing it? To psych themselves up, duh. Ritual is a form of priming to create a certain headspace.

You've never done an occult ritual. What you described is a ritual. The adjective is there for a reason, 4chan genius.

>>9142911
Wow you are on /lit/ and you cant read

>>9148408
> Muh semantics
> Muh gatekeeping

ok sperglord lmao have fun eating ur daddies cakes of light

>>9141276
>>9142169
What about The Placebo Effect?

>has this 'magick' aspect to it which claims the ability to manipulate your reality to a certain extent
I can't see how a religion like Christianism for example is in anyway different.

>>9140782
>It may be the Devil
>It may be the Lord
>But you're gonna have to serve somebody.

– Bob Dylan, 2016 Nobel Prize in Literature

>>9141276
see meme magic

>>9147694
idk..
Has anyone read his books?
Are there ANY good books about nazi occultism?!

>>9149300
If you go purely on fireworks displays, Christianity is arguably MORE effective than occultism.

When was the last time occultists made the sun dance in the sky?

>>9140476
Given your thoughts on Christianity what are your thoughts on Buddhism as a way to experience mysticism safely ?

It's an acute form of LARPing.

Don't do it.

>>9146906
Not believing in angel summoning

>>9140459
OP, consider that alchemy is a process. It's a bildungsroman you write about yourself. It's not bullshit, it's a system of understanding. As >>9140793 very rightly pointed out, Jung's genius was in defining and giving names to patterns of consciousness (and unconsciousness) as a means of better understanding. Hermeticism / tarot / alchemy are more obscure, medieval versions of the same. Often, occultism appeals to an individual who is disenchanted with their current (normal/parental) beliefs. Exploring the dangerous and seductive is part of their Becoming. Same phenomenon with college kids and socialism. To my Protestant friends, the mysteries of Catholicism have all the same mystical connotation of devil worship. The lessons are there, you just need to read them correctly.

>>9141101
I've read Steiner's eurythmy intros, and some of his philosophy of freedom. He was a theosophical offshoot of Blavatsky, another charlatan without philosophical merit. Don't waste your time on him. Read Jung & Co. to better understand the components of your self. Read Stirner, Hegel, Fichte, etc for actual 19th century philosophy of mind advances. Steiner was more interested in promoting his half-baked indoctrinations and selling them to public institutions.

>>9141114
>Aleister Crowley - Magick Without Tears
I read this as a teenager, and still treasure my copy. It's a good companion, but not a good introduction. It almost wholly correspondence between Crowley and eager young women seeking his approval and mystical training. Crowley's Book of the Law is a much better (and cheaper) start.

>>9141029
>Also, recommend me works to read
The Secret of the Golden Flower (Wilhelm/Jung) is actually a great little work. It's an examination of Taoist thought, as seen through the eyes of the West. Eastern meditation becomes Western individuation. Joseph Campbell thoroughly examined the internal-external/East-West spiritual dichotomy in his Masks of God volumes. It is alchemy of a sort. Transformative. Not magic, just a mile marker on the road to understanding.

>>9150603
So, you don't summon demons, do you?

>>9150610
Only in video games, kiddo. Real actual demons are just reptile brain instinct mixed with human psychosis.

>>9150612
I cri evrtiem.
Senpai.

>>9150619
You better not be summoning any evil demons at me, you pork eating spook.

>>9150626
>pork eating spook

So in all seriousness

Are love spells real?

>>9150815
no. sorry anon, you're gonna be a wizard.

>>9150831
Not a wizard sorry, but I just have so fucked up head and I have experienced things that prove we're in a matrix that I have no doubt some spells must be real.

>>9148212
>If anything, psychology is a branch of the occult.

I see your projections have got the better of you. Don't worry, it's a common enough problem.

>>9150903
>>9150815

It is.
Watch out with magick.
Contrary to what some fags who think they know what magick is because they read continental philosophy and figure it's a hoax like their belief systems, magick works and can be dangerous. If you're gonna start doing magick, train yourself in proper banishment first. You don't want anything to stick around.

>>9150916

How can psychology, historically speaking, not be a branch of the occult? It doesn't make the occult right/wrong, but it's like claiming science isn't the child of philosophy.

>>9150929
Do you have any links I should check out?

One thing I experience often is I think about some person out of nowhere, and in the same moment that person sends me message. I used to be a very scientific atheist until that started to happen.

>>9151147

Good thing. You got the juices going for it.
I advice you to check out Donald Michael Kraig's work and Liber Null if you want to experiment with sigils, servitors and the sort. Kraig's book on magick is the best intro to it, theoretically, and gives you the tools to already start actually doing the work. I know going through the traditional ceremonial stuff can be a bit tedious, but I made the mistake of going chaote... And a lot of the chaotes forget they started out as traditional ceremonial magicians and figure they could ride the bike without the support from the start. Mistake right there.
After you feel like you're getting the hang of it, you can start your own syncretic system of magic.

>>9151188
Thank you. I have nothing to lose and god has abandoned me anyway.

>>9140459
>alchemy
chemistry before chemistry, just a meme

what the fuck are you thinking?

>>9141114
You contradict yourself. You say the cards a right whether your interpretation is or not but then in your theory you say you are required to believe that will be the future in order to choose it.

>board contains posters that frequently complain about 'STEMtards' and analytic philosophy
>a thread on occultism and alchemy is entertained in a completely non-ironic fashion for a significant period of time

wew lad

step it up scrublords

>>9141346
I'm not going to argue that reality necessarily has a neumenological existence but your statement about quantum physics relates only to an outdated interpretation of quantum mostly popular with mystics who don't know a thing about quantum but use it to justify the holes in their logic.

>>9151394
>b-b-but muh perception
>muh wave collapse on observation
>what do you mean observation doesn't literally mean perception

all of this could have been avoided if they had just said measure instead of observe, so many years ago

>>9142760
Nope the alchemy and chemistry were synonyms at the time. There was a good amount of metaphor and moral guidance that got dropped as chemistry moved into the realm of objective science and the belief in sympathetic Magic was replaced by our current beliefs.

>>9151393
I didn't know Urizen posted on /lit/.

>>9151423
>Urizen
>In the complex mythology of William Blake, Urizen /ˈjʊrᵻzən/ is the embodiment of conventional reason and law.

>In the complex mythology of William Blake

This man's fanfiction has become a part of culture because he wrote it before the internet was a thing

I wonder what it would like if he was born in the 90's

'William's Wonderful Webcomic'

>>9146065
Principia Discordia and chaos magic generally. I'm interested in this but frustrated as for all my searching I still can't even change my mind.

>>9140926
>demons only exist in your head.
No. I am pretty sure they are external parasitic entities.

>>9151394
It was an offhand statement since I didn't want to get dragged into a different sort of debate. The point I intended was that reality at least partly conforms to our expectations of it. Light behaves as a wave or a set of discrete particles, depending on how you choose to observe it.

Actually I think reality is numinous, but that other realities are available. The original proposal was that we change realities all the time by making choices.

>>9140459
yup. read aleister crowley and you'll kill two birds with one stone. he's like the james joyce of occultism.

>>9151555
>numinous
I meant noumenous, but am a fuckwit.

>>9151555
That's fine as long as you acknowledge that it is pure speculation

>>9151385
What you're required to believe is the veracity of the tarot. You agree to enter the future symbolised by the cards. You don't necessarily have to understand them or interpret them correctly.

In fact tarot spreads are usually so complex you can never fully interpret them. It's only when the future arrives that you find out what the cards meant. This is why it's essential to record readings, so you can verify them later.

(Aside: as a Jungian, I'm also open to the idea that the unconscious mind may make our choices for us, and may even have a better understanding of the reading.)

>>9151817
From my perspective, if you said from the beginning that interpreting the tarot involves a technique that allows your subconscious to rise to the conscious mind everything wouldve made more sense... I would be more opened to believing in that kind of stuff.
I dont know about tarot, '''''magic''''', etc, but theres at least a thing in reality called 'intuition'. Sometimes I just know something is going to happen.. have you practised meditation seriously? How can a mind filled with automatic thoughts suddenly know without a shadow of a doubt what is immediately going to happen?
Theres more to human consciousness than what psychology can grasp. But I dont think Tarot is one of those things.

Ive experienced telepathy many times too. Im not talking about a coincidence of thoughts in my mind and someone else's. Im talking about being 100% sure that some random person is going to say something or is going to say something very specific. Ive only felt this in my life a handful of times, but those occasions are extremely clear in my mind: I remember the sequence of events perfectly.. and Im left with the feeling that I knew what I couldnt possibly know every time...
Then again, this was just some extraordinary cases that dont make a scientific, logical or philosophical argument about the existence of something.
Anyways, theres my drunk incoherent rant. Enjoy.

>>9151874
Hmmh. Completely ridiculous post.
How do I delete it, friends?

I remember /lit/ was a place of intellectuals a few years ago. One of the best boards left on 4chan.

Look at it now, we even have teenager goths.

>>9151817
>It's only when the future arrives that you find out what the cards meant.
Look at this... Just look at this

>only when it happened can you predict the future correctly
WOW NO SHIT SHERLOCK

>>9150929
How to banish properly? Any tips for starters?

How to get into occultism?

What's a good book to start.

>>9151817
You can believe that if you want but it isn't what you said

>You envision a future based on the cards in front of you. In effect, you "choose" that future, and enter a reality where it comes true.

Did my first sex magick. Will keep you updated how it works out.

>>9152161
What did you do, exactly?

>>9152248
Raped a toddler.

>>9152248
Watched a black man fuck my wife

>>9151896
That's how clairvoyance happens too. You see a loose picture; a feeling, a smell, a sound. You could quickly dismiss it as a dream and then you see it happen before your very eyes. You know it happened. You know you saw it before but you didn't see any connection between that and the real world... until it happened. If you were lucid enough to retain that hallucination you will even be sure this time was not just a Deja Vu.
Now go ahead: prove it to someone else.

>>9152431
that's black magic

>>9140459
it is real but not worth it

>>9152465

>>9151896
Who's talking about predicing the future? I can only do that maybe one time out of five. Like I said, interpretations and predictions tend to go wrong. My purpose is finding correlations between readings and reality.

>>9151984
Okay, so sometimes your vision is wrong. But one way or another, you tend to choose a future correlating with the cards, regardless of your interpretation of them.

To be honest I'm really not that interested in defending the point. I was just fleshing out some speculations that I admitted were half-arsed. I don't have any great stake in them, but somebody specifically asked about them (>>9141029). I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition ...

>>9152465
what is most forbidden is most powerful

You know I used to believe all this occult shit is bullshit until I studied and learned how the Elite uses it everywher.e

>>9151889
You're not wrong exactly, but there are no good websites on the internet. At least not for discussion. People can't, and I mean this, CAN'T reliably self-moderate. It's too easy to putz around and people are reflections of their surroundings.

You know how littering happens? You have somewhere nice and serene, one piece of shit drops a cigarette butt and another piece of shit is like "well there's already some trash here might as well dump mine too" and it snowballs. The only semidecent communities are small, underground, and sometimes require money to keep off the eternal september effect.

Nerds are fucking terrible and complaining doesn't make you wrong, but it is awfully obvious.

>>9140459
It is totally not worth it. Most of it is bullshit and the rest will destroy your life or at least wreck a lot of things. Don't listen those fagots who are in this crap. I have a friend who practiced this kind of stuff and he is always saying that Im lucky that I've never had anything to do with this.

>>9153243
>the rest will destroy your life or at least wreck a lot of things
P-please explain senpai.

>>9140459
Alchemy is worth studying, but not occultism

clairvoyance and scientific skepticism are either side of the same equation.

Alchemy, or Tantra is the only way desu

>>9151226
Transmuting consciousness is above, transmuting chemicals is below.

>>9151943
Jordan Peterson - Maps of Meaning

He has a lecture series on youtube that is also great. You want to learn the symbolic and metaphorical content of mythological stories and legends so that you have proper context.

You can't just slap on the word Ulysses and make it into a /lit/ thread.
>>>/x/
Seriously though you can do both, Ulysses won't take that long to read if you have enough free time to get into occultism

Look at Gérard Encausse (Papus) and Éliphas Lévi: those are the roots of Crowley.
Crowley was a great researcher and synthesizer of occult lore, but he borrowed much more than he came up with on his own, and (aside from Reuss' OTO influence, which was based on Adam Weishaupt's Bavarian Order of Illuminati) owes many of its rituals to Crowley and G.C. Jones having been in the Golden Dawn. A∴A∴ was more original, but it's still easy to see his roots and what he synthesized for Thelema. Really, the roots of modern Western Occult mostly come down to Mathers, Woodman, and Westcott. Their Freemason backgrounds and translation/studies of Kabbalah and the Solomon Keys, transmutation of Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia rituals, and any surviving grimoires they could find (Abramelin, Armadel, etc.) were picked up by Mathers and the GD, and then by A.E. Waite, Israel Regardie, and the others who disseminated secrets in print.

>>9140476
>this is your brain on /x/

>>9140459
>or is it plain bullshit that will take my time
this

>>9153878
Unnecessary and irrelevant post.

bump

Honestly Buddhism and Hinduism are way ahead of occultism/alchemy in the way they present the big themes, which are mainly the same.

I'd rather read about it from the perspective of other people, like with Prometheus Rising, Demian or Foucault's Pendulum. Maybe read a bit of Jung's Gnostic texts too. Other than that, the occult is just another set of images, normalized for the western canon, of the themes at the basis of most religions.

Occultism plays a part in Joyce. The Circe chapter has occult shit, lots of parts of finnegans wake are influenced by the occult

>>9153263
It is dealing with stuff in your psyche and your spirit and can easly affect you badly.

>>9140459
Just read Rudolf Steiner, literally the Nietzsche of occultism.

>>9158796
Way to kill a thread mate, lucky for you I'm bumping.

>>9140459

no one never ever gained anything useful from bullshit like alchemy, occult, it's another flavour of religious delusion
at the end of it you will still be the sheep you think other people are

Spare is worth your time and effort, plus, he's a moderately good writer and artist.

It's a deep rabbit hole though. It's fun and can make you go nutso

>>9149212
THe placebo effect has been getting more effective over the past few years. Explain that!

>>9147924
He has god tier facial genetics though

>>9163440
Not really.

>>9150626
lol stirner looks like he would have been such a trollhard fag irl

>>9149808
>experience mysticism safely
wait what?

>>9140476
This is the best description of going down the occultism rabbit hole I have ever read.

>>9163567
Read the post that question was aimed at

>>9153243
Superstitious twaddle. If you're mentally stable you have nothing to fear from occult study. It's just that the subject tends to attract flakes, who are heading for the loony bin even before they get started.

It's a bit like dropping acid in that respect. If you're incubating a psychosis, your studies might well aggravate it. If not, you'll be fine.