/lit/ - Literature

>>9093125

joke: God is
woke: God will

gnosticism

>>9093125
Why?

Consider this:

the God of the Old Testament just wanted people to comprehend him in a language they would understand. In a time of tribal warfare, he blessed an entire tribe and gave them privilege.

In a time of polytheism and paganism, he blessed Muhammad with the same.

For a revolution, he gave Jesus the ability to create a new religion by fundamentally altering the underpinnings of religion. He changed culture and society.

In times of crisis, God blesses those who need it.

In times of greatness, God bestows greatness and wonder on those who depend on him and his gifts. The more material this becomes the more revolutionary the new age is.

>>9093125
God created satan, so in a way, yes.

>>9093125
>that bit where a human has to convince God to be more forgiving
>>9093157
what is this

>>9093125
Joke: The God of the Jews is the Trinity
Woke: The God of the Jews is Satan
Bespoke: Satan is the foremost Angel and servant of God.

>>9093125
>>9093135
>>9093341
Yall need to read Answer to Job by Jung.

>>9093125
God and Satan come from the same place, as do Zeus and Thor and Glycon.

>>9093164
t. Mani

Joke: Satan is the shadow of God
Woke: Both are aliens

>>9093395

Joke: God is Satan
Woke: Satan is God's enemy and Man's friend. Remember who saved mankind from Eden.

why did god create satan, knowing full well the evil and mischief he'd cause, knowing full well that in the future he'd tempt his son - christ.

what the fuck is wrong with god?

>>9093146
>tfw gnosticism and valentinianism is 100% Jew-free christianity
>Many early Christians migrated to Rome in the wake of the Jewish war. Among them was Valentinus, Marcion, a wealthy ship owner from Pontus, and Cerdo, who established a school in which the new theology was taught. The gnostic leaders openly proclaimed that all things Jewish should be discarded. They declared that the God of the Old Testament was an inferior god, the deity of the lower, material world

>>9094610
Something to do, I suppose. What else are you going to do for eternity? At some point it occurs to bring some dudeness into the mix.

Howdee y'all!

>>9094665
Off by one... That was imposter!,

>>9094665
>>9094667

God saves

>>9094665
>>9094667

Listen.

Trump supporter.<

>>9094667
>>9094665

>>9093380
>Answer to Job by Jung

Give me a brief rundown.

The Demiurge did nothing wrong.

But what if I am God and the world is Satan?

>>9093125
>>>/his/

>>9094665
>>9094667
praise the lord

God is a lobster tho

This is a fanfic thread. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Who here enlightened Bogomil master race?
>God had two sons, Sataneil (the older) and Michael (the younger)
>Sataneil attempts to imitate his father's creation, but it's imperfect: instead of Heaven, he creates Earth; instead of angels, he creates man. All matter is therefore the work of the devil.
>Sataneil could not animate his creations: the human spirit had to come from God. This means we are angel spirits trapped inside sinful human flesh.
>All earthly institutions, including church and government, are of the world and therefore sinful.
>The ultimate denial of the world and avoiding taking any pleasure in the work of the devil is the only path to God.

Consider this. Bible is written by satan, everything is a lie. The whole universe is satan's creation and so is human.
God never made man, it's another lie of satan to make us believe we were good once.
God is outside of this universe, in another dimension from which satan was expelled and so he made this universe to have fun.

One only has to imagine being nothing but mind and being nothing but body, and realize the former's goodness both in and of itself as well as relative to the latter in order to dispel any notions of romanticized balance or even synergy between the two.

>>9093125
Mh... somewhat.

Atheist (not fedora. If you want or need to have religion, please go ahead. I won't go out of my way to change yours. Religion just doesn't make logical sense to me, but if it does to you, have fun) with an interest in world religion here. From a certain perspective, you can absolutely define the god of the old testament as Satan, at least from a christian point of view.

Here, let me summarize it a bit.

1 - A group of shifty semites collects traditions and legends, and calls it the Tanakh. Its most important section, made of 5 books, is called the Torah.
2 - After being cunts generally for a few centuries and getting blown the fuck out by, like, Babylonians and Romans during this whole time, they decide to expand on their tradition, while most of them live in exile in Babylon and a few of them live in the Roman-occupied Palestine area. They start writing a set of rules combining babylonian traditions with their classic jewish ones, and call this the Talmud. This collection of books won't be fully written 'til like 1500 years later though.
3 - But back in Rome-occupied Palestine, there's a split. Some jews are opposing the pharisees and scribes - that is, opposing those discussing the new laws that would form the Talmud. The main two lines in the sand are, I believe, (a) how the anti-talmud sect wishes to extend the concept of godliness from just the jewish people to anyone who believes in YHWH, and (b) the concept of usury (aka lending with interests), which the anti-talmud sect believes should be outright banned by the religion whereas the scribes and pharisees believe usury to be a godly tool to smite their enemies, and make rules for (a) not practicing usury with other jews but (b) use it to fuck over non-jews, and even (c) punish a jew that saves a non-jew from the economic clutches of other jews.

(1/3)

>>9095321
4 - This anti-talmud sect fucks off, and now call themselves Christians, after a (possibly metaphorical, but possibly historical too. Who knows) martyr who died for these anti-talmud ideas, Jesus Christ. They take the Tanakh (and Torah within) and, a couple of centuries later, they get modified a bit and rebranded as the Old Testament and the Pentateuch respectively when the Roman Catholic Church is funded.
5 - Now let's go ahead to the middle ages, when not only the Talmud has been written in full, but there's also a number of jewish mystical treaties that are now known and respected in jewish tradition as the Kabalah. There's also some mystical books that aren't included in the current Kabalah, but that were still treated with the same respect as the recognized Kabalah ones, that are now refered to as "apocryphal sefers". These contain rituals, symbols, talismans and many other aspects used by modern judaism. Basically, the Kabalah and similar books believe that the world can be manipulated by symbols, and that written Hebrew is the best code for this kind of magical world manipulation. It also treats the number 6 as its most iportant key. All of this, of course, is an amalgam between the old jewish traditions from the Tanakh/Old Testament, and what the jews who spent a thousand years in exile in Babylon (from where they were subsequently exiled and then expanded through Europe) learned there. And I should say here that, when we think of Babylonian religion, the first thing to jump to mind is the cult of Moloch, which includes child sacrifice and shit.

(2/3)

>>9095323
6 - Well, it just so happens that, when we think satanism, we think of a horned deity (like Moloch), human sacrifice, or even better, child sacrifice (like the Moloch worship ritual), some particular symbols like stars and cursive "w"-looking things (notice the flag of Israel? Now go check the entry for "hebrew" in the wikipedia) and stuff like that. This notion comes from the concepts used by the Catholic church to define and prosecute the worship of Satan, so I'm pretty sure the Catholic church was using the concept of "satanism" to fuck kikes over. But they were sacrificing babies, so hey.
7 - By the way, I also believe Revelations is to the jews what The Divine Comedy is to corrupt italian politicians. You'll usually hear how, for example, the "666" thing is referring to Nero Caesar, but remember, the jewish mystical books use the number "6" the same way /r9k/ uses frogposting. The flag of Israel being a clear as fuck example. And then you notice The Whore of Babylon...
8 - So in conclusion, middle-ages Catholicism defines Satanism in a way that suggests Judaism is Satanism, so given that they were the guys who wrote the Old Testament (as the Tanakh) and they practice the worship of Satan, then yeah, the Old Testament's god is Satan. Kinda.

(3/3)

>>9094610
God didn't create angels. They created themselves

>>9095321
>Religion just doesn't make logical sense to me,
Logic is irrelevant you fucking fedoralord. One cannot even defend it without presupposing its truth. All you have is faith in a kind of pragmatism.

Back to bibbit

>>9094610
waaaaah why doesnt a perfect and infinite being follow MY logic and MY feeelngs?!?!!?

>>9095479
Again, if what you're saying makes sense to you, hey, go ahead. It just doesn't to me, so I can't follow religion.

That's not the point of my posts though. I was just coming clean about my stance on religion before discussing the history and sacred texts of two particular religions - history and sacred texts I've read because, as I said, while I'm an atheist, I am also interested in the subject of world religion.

>>9095416
citation needed

>>9095504
logic is important because memes

You aren't interested, you have an orientalist's interest.

>>9095479
>"Logic is irrelevant"
hurr durr look at me, I'm a moron. Dude, logic sucks lmao
>"One cannot even defend it without presupposing its truth"
Yo, guys, I have, just, like, this story, ok? But you gotta believe me first, bruh. Believe dude, it's totally legit. There's no need for logic here haha lmao

I don't care if you call me an edgelord. I'd rather be the edgiest edgelord there is than being a stuck-up, brain-dead fuck of a moron like you.

Sure is Reddit in here

>>9095526
Logic is important because I'm an engineer who programs for a living.

And yes, I have an orientalist's interest. I never said I didn't. I do watch religion from a distance.

And again, that's not the point I was making. I don't give a fuck if you believe in whatever you believe, as long as it doesn't affect me or some of the precepts I ascribe to, like the UDHR.

>>9095560
You're not any better than him.

So he's illogical. Why should you care? Maybe he's an alcoholic that needs to believe in bullshit in order to otherwise have a decent standard of living. No reason to go all
>I'd rather be the edgiest edgelord there is than being a stuck-up, brain-dead fuck of a moron like you.

>>9095584
>Why should you care?
Never said that I do. In fact, I couldn't care less. Me replying to him does not imply that I care about him. It's not like leaving a comment here requires monumental effort so that I have to think twice about whether posting here is worth it or not.
>No reason to go all
I wanted to do it. Reason enough for me. We're on 4chan for fuck's sake. I can call anybody names and I don't need to ask anybody's permission beforehand, including you.

>>9095608
>I couldn't care less
That so?
>I'd rather be the edgiest edgelord there is than being a stuck-up, brain-dead fuck of a moron like you.
Doesn't look like it to me.

Don't act like a loon when engaging the loons.

>>9095642
>Don't act like a loon when engaging the loons.
You don't get to tell me what to do, boy-o.

>>9095416
God and angels are all demons. It just happens that god is the most powerful demon.

Everybody itt should read Voegelin

>>9094891
Muh Bosnia.

The lack of spiritual insight on this thread is appalling. Don't you people praise the Bible? Further proof /lit/ is all pride and no ability.

>>9094891
>>9096008

was just there this summer.

Unironic original content.

>>9094667
>>9094665
Come back to hell you fools!

>>9096008
>>9096128
I'm there now. Pretty /lit/ desu

>>9096170
Don't use red against blue the next time, retard.

>>9096212
>can't strain for one minute to read some words
>expects to go into the light

>>9096219
I did strain and that's just an excuse for your poor decision.

>>9096170
I like this, thanks

>>9093125
Both Satan and God are impostors

>>9095321
>>9095323
>>9095329
This! <3

>>9094665
>>9094667

>>9093380
Joke: Yall need to read Answer to Job by Jung.
Woke: Yall need to read Answer to Job by Junk.

>Gnosticism

>>9093125
The devil is nothing more than consequences and karma, paying for ignorance.
The devil is our learning experiences to carry us beyond our retarded parents (who could teach and preach but not show us intelligence in action).

>>9094665
>>9094667
OP BTFO

>>9096435
>karma
*tips turban*

>>9096435
The Devil represents nature inside man, as man is part of nature. The animal egoism that drives man's baser urges, and must be conquered for spiritual progression; Iblis also represents the brutal forces of nature external to man, that cannot be controlled by him. Angels ,in this sense, are natural forces which man can conquer and bend towards his will.

>>9095560
I'm more educated in 'STEM' than you are, probably. I have theological writings published. But sure, I'm the idiot here.

You have a severe misunderstanding of 'belief', you are yourself a being of belief. Except, you have a dullard's belief: you believe what everyone else believes and that alone is your justification.

You are not perceiving a cosmos objectively, you are perceiving an orderless existence and projecting order onto it. You are not the first to do this and will not be the last. Your average indo-european creation myth describes exactly this process: some cosmic mind creating order where there was none before.
>>9095584
>Logic is important because I'm an engineer who programs for a living.
Typical hatman

It being valuable for a career does not make it important. You are not a career, or only your career. One's career can be unimportant to them, or terrible for them.

>>9094610
Nono, you've got it all wrong! God told ME you don't know what you're talking about. He said it's cool if I speak for him, and he wants you to know that it's all for a reason and that reason is pretty much in accordance with all the things I want life to be about.

He said all that evil stuff is there to make me live life the way I think is best, and the evil manifests itself as all the forms of life I disagree with. It's a big responsibility, so it's lucky I'm such an important dude! God said for me to tell you that if you work hard you can be like me too, which is the way he wants people to be.

Is language a creation of man?

>>9093157
>Muhammad
His account with meeting "Gabriel" is pretty spooky. No way that was an angel of God.

>>9094667
>>9094665
Praise Jesus

>>9097977
No. Adam and Eve were created adults with the ability to communicate.

>>9098022
Thanks anon

>>9097859
>Typical hatman
Says the faggot sperging like he came straight out from /r/atheism

But yeah
>make 3 posts of seldom discussed aspects of the history and lore of judaism and christianity, wishing for some discussion
>instead of engaging on that subject, a self-defined "theologian" decides to latch on to an irrelevant remark made in the preamble, divorced from the subject matter, dismissing the importance of logic because hurr relativism and other marxist tools of cultural destruction durr
St Thomas Aquinas is turning in his grave.

And bull fucking shit are you a theologian. I graduated from a jesuit school that offered that course (engineering though), and you'd most certainly fail it, much less be published by one of the journals they're affiliated with. Though then again, you could always be a jehova's witness or other kind of protestant. The publications of those kinds certainly have fuck all standards.

>>9098096
>I graduated from a jesuit school

Heretic detected.

>>9098122
No shit.

Follow the reply thread.

God and the devil are one

>>9098126
Simply knowing he's Jesuit-associated is enough.

>>9098168
My elementary, middle and high-school was a salesian one, too.

What does that say?

Satan doesn't seem like that bad of a guy, honestly. Maybe I am wrong, but from what I have read and disregarding some obvious propaganda from Christians about the lake of fire and eternal torment, I would more likely follow Lucifer than God.

I mean, how can he be consideres evil when it seems he's mostly an instrument following through with what God knows will happen? At any moment could God not say, " wait a minute here Lucifer not happening."

Is Satan okay with people starving? Dying via murder? Does he like humanity? God could end it all and make an utopia. Why doesn't he?

>>9098183
>he clearly hasn't read Paradife Loft
>he is posting in /lit/
Why is this allowed?

>assume there is a god
where did he come from
>inb4 hurr durr eternal
right but what was the beginning
also
where did satan come from? He was an angel of god, fallen, but what inspired him to fall? Is evil created by god?

>>9094667
There IS a God after all!

>>9093125
Correction:
the god of the new testament is Satan

>>9098186

I have it but I haven't gotten around to it.

>>9098183
>God could end it all and make an utopia. Why doesn't he?

To glorify himself through the punishment of the wicked and the salvation of his elect.

>>9098096
Why should I care what Aquinas thinks? This isn't his age you moron.
>divorced from the subject matter
How? You're a fucking atheist you don't know the first thing about theology. The only thing that will save theology in the 21st century is divorcing it of its submission to secularism.

Logic isn't important, God is not logical. God is beyond human autism.
>>9098183
Read a fucking book please. I'm sick of you idiots commenting on a subject that is so absolutely foreign to you.

Lucifer is the embodiment of all evil and only exists to hate humanity.
>>9098200
Why does God need to come from something. Read a fucking book you illiterate, you assume countless more things yet appoint your self King Shit & Lord Logic.

>>9098621
>>divorced from the subject matter
>How?
Because my atheism has fuck all to do with the 3 posts of seldom discussed aspects of the history and lore of judaism and christianity I made. I only said I was a non-militant atheist to clear conflicts of interest.

You decided to latch on an 8-word off-remark instead of addressing the 3-post long summary of how the history and post-talmudic symbols and rituals of judaism align with the christian concept of satanism and, as such, you could kinda say that the old testament god is satan like stated in OP because it was written by (albeit pre-talmud) jews that align with this christian concept of satanism.

>>9098621
>Logic isn't important, God is not logical. God is beyond human autism.

God's revelation of himself is logical. It is condescended so that humans are capable of understanding it. This is called ectypal or analogical knowledge. Despite this, it is still true because it is condescended infallibly by God himself.

>>9093678
unironically this

>>9098621
ohmygod unironically kill yourself you brainlet
i mean literally, you should stop whatever your doing right now and kill yourself, it would objectively help us as a people if retards like you killed yourselves.

Woke: Realizing that Satan represents the planet Saturn that presided over the Golden Age and God is the usurper that cast him out of the heavens and stole all his worshippers while making the world worse off for it.

>>9098013
sauce?

>>9098970
Jupiter is the one true God.

>>9098267

Sounds petty and human.

>t. a bunch of primates and their fiction

>>9094581
joke:Satan is God's enemy and Man's friend. Remember who saved mankind from Eden.
woke: Satan is a son of a bitch who got us kicked out of eden and making us wage wars against each other as a futile attempt to win favour with god to let us back in

>>9099267

This isn't /sci/.

>>9095526
Snowflake conservative is offended lmao

>>9094720
then keep doing what you doing, satan will be beat in no time, dont recycle, pour as many chemicals down your drains as posible, or into the nearest clean water supply, make sure you drive EVERYWHERE. keep doing what you doing...

>>9099273
No but its truthful is it not? How can mere animals know where they come from? Based on thr word of other animals?

>>9093125
I used to play a game in church as an edgelord underage where I mentally replaced "God" with "nothing" every time God was mentioned

Works surprisingly often

>>9099282
Based on revelation. Based on God himself speaking.

>>9099291
Citation needed

>>9093125
Saturn lied to us and convinced us that we're alone.

>>9094612
>gnosticism 100% Jew-free christianity
>never heard of Gnostic Qabalah

Could someone direct me to where this fucking
joke:
woke:
This started.

>>9099303
Satan redpilled us.

>>9098970
Satan is a conflation of various pagan archetypes - basically all the ones that don't fit the Christian concept of righteousness. So yes, he's partly Saturn, but also Pan, Mercury, Dionysus etc.

>>9099969
joke: this faggot >>9093135
woke: every faggot at puberty

>>9098621
>Lucifer is the embodiment of all evil and only exists to hate humanity.
Why would you mention Lucifer when he was talking about Satan? They're distinct individuals.

>>9100012
Aren't there multiple canons?

>>9094665
>>9094667
jebus is with us today

>>9100123
It's more accurate to say "Originally Satan and Lucifer could have been the same because no one ever saw them simultaneously but people shitposted until it became an acceptable theory", but multiple canons indeed describes it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer#Lucifer_as_Satan_or_the_devil

>>9094610
If God didnt create Satan as an embodiment of evil and sin, then God would have to harbor and command evil as well as justice and good. How could the son of God and his followers, pray and serve a God that commands evil as well as good?
How could Jesus stay free of sin and follow the word of God if the word of God included sin?

The existence of Satan is necessary to allow for salvation from sin.

>>9095416
Where it says in the Bibles?

>>9093125
Aren't we gods to a point anon.

>>9100993
WE WUZ GODS N' SHIEt

>>9100993
No. No physical being is a God or should be worshiped as such.

This is the problem today with celebrities and politicians.

>>9101010
The notion that gods are completely sublime and remote from earth is largely a Christian invention. It' a different story for most other religions, especially the European paganism which Christianity (partially) replaced.

Europeans saw the spiritual world as blending everywhere with the physical. Every local river or wood grove would have its presiding god or spirit. The gods themselves were assumed to walk amongst humanity, although usually in disguise. The cult of celebrity makes perfect sense in this light. People want something real to worship, which looks like them but carries the lustre of immortality. They are rarey satisfiied with airy, inaccessible abstractions - unless they're coerced, of course.

Satan kills Job's children: "The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away"

Satan give Job sores: Job says, "Shall we receive good from God, and shall we not receive evil?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips."

God: I am just because I just am

>>9093164
What kind of pleb-tier logic is this? By your standards you are shit, because your body made your shit & therefore (you) my friend, are shit.

Wew this thread really encapsulates how stupid atheists are.

Reminder.

>>9098987
He meets him in a cave and gets spooked he runs home to his wife and is a state of shock

>>9102512
>destroy it
How?

>>9093157
but if god revealed himself in this way, there would be no way not to believe in him and no such thing as faith.

i'd say I believe in God a bit more like the "kingdom of god is within you" vein, u no?

>>9102661
I've always been suspicious of Tolstoy's formulation. It sounds good and lofty, but I worry that it's too easy to use it to form a kind of atheist Christianity, a Christianity that merely reveres Jesus as a teacher and moral exemplar.

>>9102674
but i have no religion, and i want to buy in, but i can't buy "knowledgable, loving creator". I just can't. I think religion is a bunch of smart old poets pretending they knew something we didn't, to kindly plug the leak in the human condition.

and i think that's fine. I think that's the best I can do. It's comforting, and it's not necessarily a lie.

>>9102688
I'm glad it brings you peace, but as I see it, it's not the truth. Or, not the full truth. It doesn't acknowledge the fundamentally supernatural, mystical aspects of Christianity.