/lit/ - Literature

If dubs we just watch Lost in La Mancha and discuss that

I propose that we start on the 25th and use the Grossman or the OJB translation. We should also read 50 pages a day

>>8995290
No strong opinions regarding translation or start date but I feel like 40-50 a day is a good range.

Feb. 1 start
Choose your own translation (I'm going to read smollett's)
I don't know how long the chapters are (or even if there are chapters) but that would be an easier was of dividing the readings up since people will probably have different editions with different page numbers.

I'd like to read part 2 again and I can read Spanish, so I'm in for the second part and hope there's going be anons reading in Spanish.

>translations
>>8995552
Eso sería comfy.

We should probably give a warning that part 1 and part 2 are very different, so those who complain about the first one should be told to hold out until the second.

I just see a lot of people complaining that either the book's humour is just really crude, or they complain about the numerous digressive stories, both of which is turned down considerably in the second part, which was published 10 years later.

>Claims themselves to be lit/, reading translations...
Not learning Spanish only to read Don Quijote, plebs.

>>8995628
Good point, move the start date to Feb. 1, 2019

>>8995543
Upvote :^)

>>8995290
>translations
JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA. I haven't read it yet though.

Why do you cocksuckers come here and propose we all read highschool lit

>>8995691
Not all of us went to a Spanish high school.
Any book can be high school lit, btw.

Do Burton Raffel

>>8995691
Did you read it?

> Yeah, I fell for this bait

You fuckers voted this in when I SPECIFICALLY ASKED YOU NOT TOO BECAUSE I'M ALREADY READING IT! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>reading in spanish

>>8995583
Si te interesa voy a estar para la segunda parte porque la primera la leí hace poco. Tengo la edición conmemorativa del IV centenario de la RAE publicado por Alfaguara.

>ebooks and audiobook
https://mega.nz/#F!VANiTKYZ!HEO-5zzoegwgBt8djXxb_A

The audiobook is uploading.

>>8995835
What's the best spanish version?

>>8995963
the one by cervantes

>>8995969
evan.

>>8995838
audiobook is done uploading.

folder has Lathrop, Smollett, and Grossman and the audiobook for Grossman.

>>8995543
i agree with this guy

I like Lathrops translation a lot. I also own it in physical form.

Grossman is greatest because audiobook.

>tfw too indecisive for numerous translation options

I'll follow through reading in spanish. I need a little practice anyhow, my 'portunhol' is rusted a little...

>>8996244

I know this feel

>tfw got a copy of Don Quixote for Christmas from my retired spanish teacher Grandma
Looks like I have to read it now.

>>8995838
Thanks anon <3

OP here

So far:

>you will choose whatever translation you please, or Spanish, if you are a "patricio"

>We will begin our reading on February 1

>We will read approximately 50 pages a day (five chapters)

I will assemble a reading schedule soon, how many rest/catch up days do you guys think we should have? I was thinking one every 20 chapters and a couple days right before the last 10 chapters. Give me some feedback

>>8997443
Just so you know OP, we read 50 pages a day in W&P and people said that was a tiny bit too fast. I would try 40-45.

>good enough at Spanish that I'd feel guilty about reading a translation
>not good enough at Spanish that I could keep pace with the reading group

JUST

>>8997512
It's alright bro, you can read it for the first time in translation and reread it when you're better at spanish.

>>8997512
If you start now, you'll be fine. There will be catch-up days.

If you start with us, it might be hard.

Cool, I bought this book a long time ago but it has just been sitting in my closet. I'll start reading now, because I'm a slow reader. I've done reading groups before and they force me to read more.

>>8997470
Maybe this would be better, but I think the main problem with W&P was the date. I was on the group and I'm still reading but way behind the group. There was Christmas and New Year, I guess a lot of people travel on these dates. Even with catch-up days it gets discouraging when you are more than 100 pages behind. At least this was my case, I knew it would be impossible to stay on schedule, but at least it encouraged me to read W&P.

Grossman is god-tier. Especially with the annotations.

I should know since I have only read Grossman.

Alright boys, this is my pathetic attempt at a schedule. I only outlined the first part of the book. Where should the rest days go? I was thinking in between each part (ex: P1, P2, etc...)

>>8997785
also, the pages per days comes out to about 45

>translations
el gringANO

Estos gringos no van a entender nada sin antes leerse el Amadis de Gaula.

>>8997797
Yes, they will, gato soplanucas

>>8997797
La primera vez que leí el Quijote no había leído Gaula y lo que decís es mentira. No seas ridículo.

>>8997785
i like it, but may be too pushing for some

>>8995543
I'm 70 pages into Crime and Punishment, so I pretty much have until Feb 1 to finish. Shouldn't take me too long.

OP again...

New schedule with rest days

>>8998174

Average pages per day: 37

I'm reading it now but I looked into translation comparisons before starting and Grossman is way better than any other one I could find. Just look at the first paragraphs, clearly better at conveying tone.

>>8998174
I'm going to Madrid in the summer to learn Spanish. Perfect time to read Don Quixote.
Thanks for getting it started OP.

>>8998174
good stuff OP, seems fine

I've had Don Quixote sitting on my shelf for about a year now, guess I better get A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man finished and join in with this. I've no idea if my translation is any good since I just got it in a charity shop but it'll do.

>>8998930
Motteux produced an important translation of Cervantes' Don Quixote; this 4-volume 1700-03 edition (3rd edition in 1712) was credited as "translated from the original by many hands and published by Peter Motteux." Very popular in its own era, Motteux's version of the work has been condemned by later, more rigorous translators, for:
adopting a frivolous style, compared to the mock-serious and ironic tone of the original;
turning Don Quixote and Sancho Panza into buffoons;
casting the work in a "Franco-Cockney" rather than a Spanish ambience.

ruh roh maybe not

>>8998938
>worse than worthless
Honestly I don't see it myself, but I only read a bit of his. Grossman's good.

>>8998965
reading about a bit it seems most think the tone is fine, I'm just gonna stick with it since I'm not flush with cash atm

>>8995543
Yeah. Maybe we should split up the group in faster and slower groups though.

>>8997785
Just add a catch-up-day here and there and you'll be good.

>>8998174
when do we start?

>>8998174
>>8999041
I agree with adding catch up days, best way to please near everyone.

I might join the read through for part 2 since I am already bearly done with part 1

I won't vote in the poll though just in case

>>8999043
>We will begin our reading on February 1

Someone pls post a sample of the most well-regarded translations for those too lazy for google.

I've never been part of one of these reading groups. Is it worth it? Is there actually any good or interesting discussion, or is it all memes?

Also, the ormsby (old norton) translation is the one I chose.

>>8999331

It's already been posted in the thread you lazy sack of shit.

>https://mega.nz/#F!VANiTKYZ!HEO-5zzoegwgBt8djXxb_A

>>8995290

OP are we gonna get a chat room up for the read through?

>>8999703
I think that daily or bi daily threads seemed to work fine in comc and wprg. If enough people would like to get a chat room going then you could do that. Im bad with computer stuff if you couldn't tell by my chart

>>8999619
The first few days will have discussion, then people will lose interest and there will only be memes.

>>8999703
please no, let's just keep threads here

>>9000089
is this true? that's pretty off-putting.

Maybe something that isn't as long of a haul, like short stories or individual poems would be a better idea. It should reduce the depressing drop off in numbers later on. I've been part of a few groups before, though not centered around literature, and when the event/project/whatever finally launches/starts, everyone is surprised at how fast people drop off the map and how nothing ever gets off of the ground. It happens every single time.

>>9000603
Here's a short story group >>8998923
And a Start with the Greeks group >>9000533

That anon is partly right partly bullshit. Yes people will lose interest and leave, but enough will stay. Discussion will vary based on interest. And memeing is half the fun.

If you stick with it and participate in discussions, that's one more that will.

I have a Penguin Classics edition translated by JM Cohen, think that'll be alright?

>>9000637
You got an older translation that was more popular in the 20th century. You should consider buying a more recent one.

>>9000628
Enough will stay to perpetuate memes. Look at the War and Peace group. Around 2 weeks in only a few people were posting with minimal serious discussion, whereas the first few days had paragraphs of interpretation and expectation. A major problem is the length of these books for readthroughs, where several people still participating will just still be behind and therefore unable to provide discussion relevant to where the group is actually at, and there's no incentive for them to discuss past things because everybody's already moved past them.

>>8995290
I support this thread, though I will not be participating. Personally, I used the Penguin Classic edition. My general skepticism with re-reading Quixote is the translation meme. This may just be verifiable heresay, but I've had friends completely unrelated to the study of literature tell me that reading the original in Spanish is sublime and that the English really undercuts it (assuming here everyone is shooting for an English translation). I just imagine what it would be like if I were Chilean and tried to read Midsummer Night's Dream. I wouldn't get half the value, and the other half I would think was a silly plot. However, this analogy doesn't particularly hold for Quixote because I think the plot is strong enough to stand against any translation (so long as the translator doesn't disfigure key passages etc.). I forget what critic invoked this idea (could be Eliot in his "What is a Classic?" essay), but I think it's a rather obvious stipulation that some stories are just too good not to tell, and likewise some stories are too good not to be heard. But, for now, methinks I will wait until I can hear it told in the best manner before I revisit this classic.

>>9000750
>methinks
Stopped reading and wiped what you said from my memory right there.

>>9000789
>not stopping at verifiable heresay
Stopped reading and wiped what you said from my memory right there.

>>9000845
This is going to be a fun read through.

i thought everyone hated the grossman translation?

>>9001169
We only say that to be contrarian and because we hate women.

When it comes down to it, she or Lathrop are the ones to read.

Is my old P.A. Motteux translation any good? Apparently it was done in 1712. Idk if I'll be in the reading group or not, but just out of curiosity because I picked it up used a couple years ago and haven't read it yet.

Any opinions on the Starkie translation? I was a bit through that one and I've since lost it, so I'm debating either getting Grossman or replacing my Starkie.

>>8995552
I have a spanish version, I've been meaning to read it, so I guess I'll follow this group.

Since we are still about a week and a half away, I shall claim the first
donkey hot tea meme

Burp of life.

>>8995290

>Lose the original thread
>Buy Moby Dick thinking it will win
>Mfw I see this thread

>>9003694
>paying for works in the public domain

Boys, if there are actually 63 of you fuckers that are going to participate in the read along, that would be fantastic

>>9003915
I'll be there, man. It'll just be you and me.

>>9003915
it will probably lessen over time but i hope that people will stick with it. im looking forward to it.

>>9004209
I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real
The needle tears a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to kill it all away
But I remember everything

What have I become?
My dearest friend
Everyone I know
Goes away
In the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt

>>9004289
yes?

fuckin hell its like 800-1000 pages long depending on translations aaargh, is it worth it boys, is it a fucking /lit/ read

>>9004314
according to my japanese animes yes

>>8998174
You have to add to the schedule the author's preface and the commendatory verses before Chapter 1.

>>9004527
OP here

You will be responsible for reading those. It's only like ten or so pages.

>>9004314
It's an incredible book and has something for everyone, I think. According to the little I've read and seen about it, there's a huge layer of deeper meaning that can be found, but even aside from that it's a great adventure story with novellas interspersed throughout for variety and meaning, so an advanced or novice reader could enjoy it just as well.

>>9004314
According to Harold Bloom it's the best novel ever written to date.

>>8995290
this is going to fail

>>9005977

>Implying that's not The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman

>>9006027
It's the opinion of a man who has read an extraordinary amount and could read 500 pages an hour.

>>9006014
why

I have the 1993 Wordsworth edition but it doesn't say who translated. Any good? I know >Wordsworth

>>9006098
Don't engage trolls.

>>9006112
Look on the back, does it say P.A. Motteux? That's what Wordsworth usually uses for Don Quixote.

I have that version too, and haven't read it. The translation was completed in 1712, so it's really ancient. I hear some good, but mostly bad things about it.

>>8995633
I'll be dead by then!

>>9003915
i'll try to stay relevant to the threads and keep up to date, anon. cheers!

Bump

>>8995290
>Reading Don Quijote in translation

Will we read Hamlet in Spanish afterwards?

>>9007795
>the translation policeman howls once more into the internet's blackness

>>8995290
Spaniard here.

Don Quijote's Spanish is quite archaic compared to the nowadays Spanish. Most words and verbal forms are not used anymore, so Spanish students (like me) need lots of help from dictionaries to actually understand them. Maybe the English students have the same struggle with Shakespeare?

I'd recommend you to try the most recent and serious translation (not a book for kids or something like that) so that you can fully understand it.

>>9008141
Thank you for clarifying. Too many people here think if they spend a few months learning Spanish first they could read, understand, and appreciate Don Quixote. Even native speakers have trouble with his archaic language.

>Maybe the English students have the same struggle with Shakespeare?
99% of Shakespeare's English is understandable by modern readers. For the remaining 1% of words, footnotes are given to convey their meaning. Perhaps English has changed less than Spanish in the past 400 years?

Geoffrey Chaucer is a different story. He's probably closer to the experience of you reading Don Quixote. A lot of his words are archaic and require many footnotes to understand.

Is there not a Spanish version of Don Quixote which includes footnotes instead of requiring you look up archaic words yourself?

In any case, it's a difficult book in Spanish and if you aren't already bilingual, the effort required to learn Spanish and read it in Spanish is significant and not worth the trouble for most readers. However, learning Spanish is probably worthwhile as its own pursuit.

>>9008465

>99% of Shakespeare's English is understandable by modern readers.

99% of Brits, maybe.

The amount of posts I see on /lit/ from Americans complaining about Shakespearean English is depressing.

>>9008493
Yeah I've seen those too. Maybe it's harder than I think? Or are they just in high school still?

>>9008141
>archaic
>Don quixote

you had some issues anon

bump bc Don Q. is a funny meme

>>9008141
How come Spaniards call Don Quixote Don Quijote? What sparked the switch?

>>9009232
Correct graph for arcaic /x/ sound is J, like in México.

>>9009269
I know, hence my question.

>>9008523
It's highschoolers and pseuds who think that by opening a book they are reading it. Remember where we are anon.

When do we start ?

>>9010235
Feb 1

>>8995290
if dubs we read in spanish

>>9010401
kek has spoken.

>>9008533
He's right though. Nobody says you cant understand what fermosura is but the problem is most phrases used in the book have meaning in modern language but not the same. Thing is, if you can read modern Spanish, you can read Don Quijote. You just need a good annotated version that tells you what the fuck those phrases mean.

>>9008141
Nope, the only really difficult things to understand about Don Quixote are those times when Cervantes references old obscure card games, military terms and shit like that. Other than that, his spanish perfectly understandable.

>>9011726
>fermosura
Nobody back then in XVI century Spain spoke like that anymore, just Don Quixote. Cervantes makes him speak like that because he's basically a clown to everyone around him. Imagine a modern englishman speaking like Hamlet nowdays, it's the same thing. Leaving the mad knight aside, you can tell what the other characters are saying or doing 99% of the time.

>You just need a good annotated version that tells you what the fuck those phrases mean.
This one is good advice nevertheless, there's a lot of things that are going to sound strange to the readers, more so if they're not spaniards.

I'm on vol 2 book 2 of Tobias Smollett's translation and I started mid-december, how am I doing?

Was not expecting this book to take so long, I read about 2-3 chapters a day (although I have missed several days)

bumping for latecummers

OP here, I recommend that you read a novella this week to prepare you for the reading to come (if you aren't already reading something). In TCOMC group I hadn't read for two weeks beforehand and I was swamped by the vigorous reading pace for the first four days. Just a suggestion. Personally Im going to read Demian.

cant wait to see you all in the discussion thread, ill be ready to shitpost

>>8995290
Im pumped for it,

I'm a Spaniard who have not read the book.

This seems a good occasion to start.

2 chapters per day?

>>9015880
4 chapters a day, starting on February 1

grabbing my copy later today.
hopefully this group stays relatively active.

>>8995290
This is duelos y quebrantos.

Eggs, bacon and chorizo.

>>8998174
not having a rest day on the 7th, you're the reason the west is failing

Grossman translation lets go lads, /hype/

>>9014355
Half way through it like you suggested, great read.

Read it if you haven't already, it's quite short too

Fuck all. I'm going to read pic related version on 1 Feb 2017.