/lit/ - Literature

>>8974551
be cognizant of this aspect of your writing, and edit.

>>8974571
sorry, i meant to ask what other ways you could express yourself without "just"

in the way that you could say "in the way" instead of like

Nothing wrong with repetition it it fits the voice or tone. Don't fall for the thesaurus meme. Reading something natural is more aesthetic than something forced

>>8974600
just read stuff you want to sound like, and copy it. if you want to write without using 'just', you might be well suited to find a writer that avoids its use.

note, i could have said "'just', just find a writer..."

I use "just" too much as well. Same with "though."

>>8974551


If you're asking how to prevent this in social circumstances: by reading more books.

I had a friend who wanted to cultivate a very specific style of speech by consciously change how he talked, as opposed to just passively expanding his vocabulary through reading and writing, he ended up sounding very autistic (probably because it's an autistic thing to do) so I would only opt for passively changing how you speak.

If you're asking how to stop doing this as someone who wants to write professionally:

If you're struggling with this, then writing probably isn't for you. The field is already saturated with people who think they're talented and, unless you're aiming to be a journalist, if you need help with this problem then chances are you don't have what it takes. Better to accept it now then waste the next decade trying to 'make it'.

>>8974680
>give up your dreams cuz they're hard
man, you're a jerk. let the guy become an author if he wants. what's it to you if he wastes his time?

>>8974680
>>8974690
lmao I would never dream of being a writer. I do a lot of talking online with forums/emails and it gets on my nerves when I use just too much.

I'd like to avoid it in face to face social situations as well. Reading more is good, though.

>>8974711
you might benefit to learn to restructure your grammar in a way that when you want to use just, you can reform the sentence without making it lose meaning.

>>8974726
reading more books could help with this im guessing?

>tfw I have a tic that makes me write/say JUST all the time
JUST

>>8974734
yeah, read 19th century brit books for a while.

>>8974745
FUCK I DID IT AGAIN

JUST

>>8974747
ok I'll give it a shot, hoping this isn't a troll

>>8974690

The current generation being told to follow their dreams no matter how wild and unrealistic they are is going to be the cause of a lot of problems down the line.

Having dreams is important, but you can do yourself a lot of favours by regulating what you want out of life. Desire is the root of suffering. It's important to have realistic goals, if I decide at 20 to become a concert pianist I'm going to waste a lot of my time. People should spend more time finding WHAT they're good at, than trying to become good at something they can't.

>>8974756
oh please, crushing hopes does not a societal hero make. no one needs your fucking cynical input on what one should and shouldn't do. if anything, your critical analysis on the woes of society is something you'll never be good at and should be nipped in the bud immediately. you have no discernible talent.

>>8974600
you could stop using the word at all.

or you could just stop using the word at all.

there are situations where the use of the word are necessary. use it then. otherwise, don't.

also, never ever ever NEVER ever do a word frequency analysis of your own work or you will become obsessed with avoiding perfectly good words that you imagine you are over-using.

>>8974756
not at all. while they are wandering around in a daze, trying to follow unrealistic dreams.. we will be over here, getting on with things and sneering at them for being so Rewardian.

>>8974775


I don't claim to have a discernible talent. I never described this as a woe on society, but I remember going to college and meeting dozens of self described 'artists' who worked at Starbucks waiting for their big break.

I am not a cynic though, I actually believe life to be an inherently positive experience and I think there are many ways for someone to be happy. That's exactly why I oppose this idea that to be happy you have to 'pursue your dreams' and become famous or talented bigshot.

Finally writing sentences like 'does not a societal hero make' makes you sound severely autistic.

Also in the context you're using it, the word is social. Maybe try not to sound smarter than you are on the internet, it usually backfires.

>>8974756
you do realize that no one decides to become a concert pianist at 20 out of the blue, right?

having a dream usually means that you had it your whole life and most often you are already on the path of accomplishing it.

what are you so scared of? that no one will be left to cook your burgers or digging holes? or is it because of some frustration that you don't get any satisfaction out of your daily job?

>>8974745
I can't even look at the word 'just' without thinking about this meme

Hell, whenever I'm alone at home I scream JUST from time to time.

>>8974801
>both adjectives pertaining to society
in what way does the context make one word preferable to the other?
>severely autistic
ah yes, it's anon the psychiatrist, arbiter of all mental conditions, come to take me to task because i called him out for being a prick.

you sure showed me with your idiotic attempt to correct my grammar.

>>8974801
Not that guy you were responding to but you do kinda sound like an ass desu. What's so wrong with people following their dreams? I know artists who work at Starbucks too but they don't seem any less happier than my friends who work real jobs. Maybe things are a lot more nuanced?

>>8974551

I've had that problem with words from time to time. 'Again' is one that I tend to overuse if I'm not paying attention.

When it happens I find it helps to take a break from the keyboard and chew on alternate ways to approach what you want to say.

If you can't stop using the word "just" then you should try to use it ironically, then it will have a true purpose.

>>8974833

Societal: pertaining to society as a whole. (E.g. a societal development)

Social: pertaining to society, but not as a whole. (E.g. poverty is a social issue)

If am a hero, it would be a social hero because I am a hero for the individuals in the society. A societal hero is someone who does something for the entire society at once.

The fact that you could have used the far more common word social, but chose societal, coupled with your uncommon sentence structure is indicative of either poor SOCIAL skills or autism.

>>8974856

There's nothing WRONG with it, and it's not a crime. But I don't feel like we should be obligated to encourage people to follow those dreams when they are overwhelmingly unlikely. And the people you know are still at the stage where they're clinging on to hope, give it time for them to burn out and see how they're doing then.

>>8974931
wrong wrong wrong. i meant society as a whole, you nitwit, i implied that you were attempting to solve the problems of society as a whole by crushing this guy's dreams of being a writer. the fault lies with you, friend.

also
>what is an exaggeration
and i'm the autist. what a terrible person you are, telling people they should give up writing, then calling others autists, just a mean guy.

>>8974950

Solve the problems of society as a whole...by crushing THIS guy's dreams.

I'm 'crushing' ONE persons dreams, and affecting society as a whole.

By acting through the individuals, not to mention by being a part of the society, makes the correct word SOCIAL.

Societal refers to something external to the society affecting the society as a whole directly.

BUT EVEN if you were right, no one could possibly be retarded enough to think ALL of society's problems could be solved by crushing everyone's dreams.

Just face it, the right word was social and you got caught trying to sound clever and using a slightly more uncommon word for smart-points.

>>8974990
>not noting the pre-emptive term "exaggeration"
what a pleb.

>>8974551
i write "very" and "really" too much

really, what should i do?

>>8974931
It's quite the great leap of faith to say they will fail isn't it? No one aspires to be the next dfw, that just happens - but if they satisfy their need for self expression shouldnt that be enough? Seeing art through a market lense of success and failure is contradictory to the arts is it not? That simply feeds consumption. Equating an individuals dreams and hopes with success or even financial well being is gross malpractice

>>8974990
No one is buying your bullshit additions to the term societal. show me one instance in which the change is required to be external. just one definition that makes that distinction.

also, the interaction with the individual is irrelevant. i'm implying you're trying to be a socital hero, making changes to the social structure, whether it be external or no, you're implying that people who follow their dreams or are being told to do so, are going to cause problems in the society. i said crushing his hopes does not make you a societal hero. your influence on this one man will NOT fix the society as a whole and makes you look like a jerk. not a societal hero.

~fin

>>8975015

http://www.dailywritingtips.com/social-vs-societal/

>Even now, social is more likely to appear in phrases referring to individuals, not groups, such as “social disposition,” “social engagement,” and “social life.” Societal, on the other hand, is employed in contexts like “societal pressure to conform,” though social still has the same import in usage such as “social institutions,” which refers to widespread traditions, not venues where people hang out.

Tl;dr Societal means it's something that arises out of society, social means it pertains to society on the individual scale.

>>8975030


That's just objectively wrong. If using words correctly doesn't matter to you, why the fuck are you on /lit/?

Hint: you probably don't have a future as a writer either.

>>8975041
>tfw i've already addressed it and made the term itself irrelevant

>>8975030


>~fin

Go back to tumblr.

>>8975047
>that's just wrong
not an argument

>>8975050

>If I say I know I'm using a word incorrectly then I'm allowed to use it incorrectly because I've addressed it.

Kys.

>>8975051
>tumblr

>>8975054

argument
ˈɑːɡjʊm(ə)nt/
noun
a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.
"there is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal"


Apparently the definition of a word isn't an argument against it's incorrect usage.

>>8975059
>dailywritingtips
>a valid source

>>8975069

I haven't seen any of your sources faggot.

Here's some more:

https://public.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/social.html

http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-social-and-vs-societal/


The first one actually goes so far as to say that the use of 'societal' is pretentious.

Again they support that societal means the effect from the society, not to the society.

E.g. Racism is a societal issue

>>8975059
still haven't addressed my conclusion with anything other than
>well that's just wrong
its pretty clear that i meant society as a whole regardless, and that shitting on him wouldn't make you a societal hero. in no way have you refuted this fact. the use of the term is correct.

>>8975074
>b-but these guys said you're pretentious!

>>8975074
>http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-social-and-vs-societal/
>doesn't even make the same distinction he tried to establish
boy. you're just posting bullshit now, aren't you?

I use the word 'that' too much. I'm not even sure when I'm supposed to use it anymore.

>>8975079
>>8975089
>>8975105

Nice try sameposting faggot.

Your conclusion doesn't need addressing because it's obviously untrue, I don't think I am a social hero.

Regardless societal hero still doesn't work because the definition of societal means originating from society, if I were trying to FIX or HELP society, I'd be a social hero as I am an individual trying to improve society.

A societal hero is a hero that is CREATED by society, as a concept it doesn't even make sense, and it clearly isn't what you meant.

You meant I was trying to be a social hero, you chose a bigger word to sound smart. Nothing else you say is going to change that fact.

Find me one source that states otherwise.

>>8975074
http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-social-and-vs-societal/
>The word societal implies anything relating or pertaining to society.
>Again they support that societal means the effect from the society, not to the society.
how embarassing

>>8975117
Your jimmies seem rustled bro. It's just 4chan man, none of this matters xD

>>8975117
>
“Societal” as an adjective has been in existence for a couple of centuries, but has become widely used only in the recent past. People who imagine that “social” has too many frivolous connotations of mere partying often resort to it to make their language more serious and impressive. It is best used by social scientists and others in referring to the influence of societies: “societal patterns among the Ibo of eastern Nigeria.” Used in place of “social” in ordinary speech and writing it sounds pretentious.

this comes from that wash u site. no group vs. individual distinction made here.

>>8975122

Wow. You're really going to need me to hold your hand through this one aren't you:

According to your own source:

>The word societal implies anything relating or pertaining to society. Thus, we talk about societal values, societal changes, societal threats, and so on. However, the word societal has rather restrictive meaning which is of society or about society.

>However, the word societal has rather restrictive meaning which is of society or about society.

>Of or about society.

OF or ABOUT.

The reason it even says 'implies' is because retards like you misuse the word.

And before you write "But that's what I meant! A hero of society!" that is not what they mean when they use the word of: indicating the relationship between a verb and an indirect object.

As for you: >>8975138

>jimmies rustled
>bro
>xD

Get the fuck back to plebbit.

>>8975153
actually, the jimmies rustled guy wasn't me. you're really hopeless though. this has been fun, you wannabe societal hero.

>>8975151

You have the reading comprehension of an absolute mongoloid retard:

>It is best used by social scientists and others in referring to the influence of societies: “societal patterns among the Ibo of eastern Nigeria.” Used in place of “social” in ordinary speech and writing it sounds pretentious.

>best used referring to the influence of societies

In the context of the other sources it is clear that societal has a specific usage but so many pretentious faggots abuse the word that they clarify that it can be synonymous.

>>8975166

I didn't say it was you, interesting that you deny it in advance (I said as for you, indicating it was a different person).

Also being proud in your ignorance, saying wannabe, and your low reading comprehension makes it obvious you are about 14 years old.

Well I hate to break it to you kid: but your dreams of being an astronaut, or whatever the fuck it was that got triggered by me saying some dreams aren't going to happen, is unrealistic.

>>8975170
>they clarify that it can be synonymous
i'm glad you concede!

>>8975191

It CAN be synonymous, doesn't mean it SHOULD be synonymous.

You seriously don't know who words work do you?

Literally and figuratively can be synonymous, however literally is best used when not being figurative.

For example, you should literally kill yourself.

>>8975196

*How words work.

Clearly all the retardation in this thread is rubbing off on me.

Inb4: a typo means I'm wrong about everything.

>>8975196
>internet bullying
some societal hero you are.

>>8975203

>Complains about internet bullying

You know that box in your browser with all the complicated words like 'thread' and 'boards'? Well you should use it to find a different website.

Hahahaha bro you care why too much about this argument that it renders your initial argument groundless ??
LOL don't you see it bro

xD xD xD

>>8975218
make way! societal paladin over here, saving the world, crushing dreams one step at a time!

OP here

wew

>>8975247
beautiful, isn't it? guy calls me pretentious, then splits hairs so far as to admit that it's a synonym, then even splits hairs on "should" and "can", a societal arbiter to the end, this guy.

>>8974551
Just be yourself

>>8975225

>Why too much
> ??
>LOL
>Bro
>xD

4chan/lit has really gone to shit. I'm assuming there's some influx of SJW tumblrinas. I suggest you stick to websites that post gifs of Sherlock and Doctor Who with 'witty quotes', I think you'll find them more your style.

>>8975229

I think you think the word societal triggers me some how, either that or your trying to make it seem like you don't care that you were wrong after nearly a dozen posts attempting to say you were right. Which is a bit silly, it's too late to play the 'I don't care' card.

Anyways I'm sorry if shitting on peoples dreams triggers you so much because deep down you know you will become a middle school English teacher for a bunch of niggers.

I know your mom told you were going to the next Tennessee Williams but talent isn't something you can learn.


>>8975258

Pretentious comes from the word pretend. Like for example pretending you know what a word means when you don't. In this case you were looking for the word pedantic, and I never said there's anything wrong with being pedantic.

I know television teaches you to call people pretentious when they're right about something, but that's just not correct.

>>8974680
What a colossal faggot you are

>>8975269

*You're

See how when I make a mistake I admit it? That's an adult thing.


>>8975278

Right that is a satisfactory concession, once a person has run out of anything to say but a single insult, it generally means they've realised they're wrong. I can now go to bed happy.

Cheers!

>>8975288


Lmfao being this dense and obtuse

>If you're asking how to stop doing this as someone who wants to write professionally:

If you're struggling with this, then writing probably isn't for you. The field is already saturated with people who think they're talented and, unless you're aiming to be a journalist, if you need help with this problem then chances are you don't have what it takes. Better to accept it now then waste the next decade trying to 'make it'.

>>8975269
>niggers
out comes the /pol/ i knew it was there. no, you're pretentious because you pretend you're better, and quibble all the way down to split hairs, concede, then go back on your concession in fury. you're no better than anyone. you're just a jerk.

in the end, you were not a societal hero, but rather a societal zero. hohoho

>>8975339

Dude I don't agree with that guy but saying niggers doesn't make him from /pol/. Most of 4chan says niggers.

>>8975367
oh i know, i complain about niggers all the time, i'm just fucking around. he is a jerk though.

>>8975367

Context bro, context

>>8974551
Alas, poor OP! I knew him, Horatio; a fellow of infinite just

>>8975371

Yeah I mean it was racist, but /pol/ is a specific type of racism.

/pol/ is like "they're brainwashing white women to fuck black men we need hitler back ASAP 1488!" racism lol

>>8975278
just a fgt

>>8974756
>current generation being told

You are writing like bug shit at a very basic mechanical level. Do not give advice on this subject anymore unless you want to be a cautionary tale on the toxicity of failure.