/lit/ - Literature

>The dominant activity is free-wheeling, disrespectful, antiauthority disputation.

>implying this is not a good thing

wut a faggot.

>>895704

Second. What the fuck, man.

he's right though

arbitrary anti-authoritarianism is stupid. However Brooks I think does not really understand how much influence children have on internet culture. The reason why it sucks is just because 70% of the people who lurk constantly are 13 year old faggots who have no lives.

Broad statements are broad.

too much hurrr to read through

He's right. The internet has done more harm than good to our culture.

New things are bad, old things are good.

>>895814
Hey, if you don't like the innernet, you can just git out.

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He forgot to add that the internet encourages shit writing.

>>895695

No.

It would seem that his experience of the literary world was one with a rigid cannon. Something tells me that he read books by old, dead, white men.

The internet is not anti-authority, because it isn't completely privately owned. The internet is more like a public library.

Get his trash out of my /lit/.

>>895914
>old, dead, white men.

90% of good literature is written by "old dead white men." The other 5% is by old dead black men, while the remaining 5% is the product of old dead women of various races.

>>895914
White men were the only people allowed to/able to write in English for the vast majority of history, so obviously that's probably what the columnist has read.

>>895914
>cannon

>>895914
>my /lit/

This board, like every other one, belongs to Moot. It is not yours.

>>895967
But it is mine. Prove me wrong.

>>895694

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>>895980
>I am a faggot

LOL someone is frustrated with the decline of the racially segregated sexist literary institutions that the internet openly mocks...

He's actually pretty equivocal. He's not writing AGAINST THE INTERNET but saying that there are certain things about it that need to be changed, attended to or supplemented. Cool.

>>896027

I hate the guy who wrote the article, but I really fucking hate you. wat do?

>>896044
Get educated and read more non-privileged novels by better authors than you currently do.

>>896048
plz to be recommending some non-privileged white and asian women authored novels

>>896058
it's true. there aren't any.

>>896058
Ursula K. Le Guin is always a good place to start (I would say Atwood but her books tend to reek of white privilege.)

>>896073
Atwood is fucking terrible either way

>>896073
so are white women just as privileged as white men? I don't know about these things as I am a white man.

>>896083
They're racially privileged but oppressed because of their gender.

>Readers immerse themselves in deep, alternative worlds and hope to gain some lasting wisdom.
>DEEP

>>896083
In some ways no. Our culture is patriarchal and tends to favor classically masculine attributes. Having said that, the patriarch represses men just as it does women. MOST well-known writers are of the priviledged class, which is an economic reality as the poor usually have less free-time, and less education (doesn't mean they aren't as intelligent, they just have less degrees) the arts dickride academia until their but is hurt, so without a degree you have a much harder time getting a shot.

Anybody have any literature from these superior african pygmy women?

>>896085
So who is more privileged, an Indian man or a white woman?

Is there a flow chart for this? I'm honestly wanting to figure this shit out so I'm not ignorant about this sort of thing.

>>896093
>implying the written word is in any objective way better than spoken-word tradition

>>896087
Go back to /a/

There are no good novels by muslim nomad women from the siberian steppe. PROVE ME WRONG.

>>896094
It depends, do you mean an Indian man who lives in India? Priviledge is about money.

>>896095
Unfortunately no one has written them down and translated them so us English-speaking ninnies can appreciate them.

>>896095

>implying that you are racist for questioning if african pygmy women have a written tradition or not.

>>896094
Sociologists actually discourage people from developing any quantitative models for fear of hindering any political progress (seriously.) They don't want to know who is "more oppressed" because that would mean that some people deserved more reparations than others (thus their system would be inegalitarian and not communist, which in their minds is bad.)

>>896099
No, it's about opportunity.

I thought David Brooks' only redeeming quality was that he doesn't advocate waging culture wars?

>>896107
What do you mean by ''oppurtunity"?

>>896099
Wait privilege is about money? I thought you just implied it was about race and gender, now I'm confused.

For the sake of understanding, lets say two different examples. One is an Indian man in India, the other is an Indian man in some western country.

>>896109
Having more options open to you.

>>896106
Well I'm not a sociologist, just a guy who knows he's the most privileged group and would like to help out whoever is on bottom to get up here too if that's possible.

>>896114
It's still pretty vague, and at the bottom is still about wealth (e.g. money or other assets)

>>896119
>digging the foundation out from under you

>>896109
>>896110
ITT: People realize no one know what "privilege" encompasses.

>>896121
Not really. There are plenty of poor white males. A white guy can be poor, or he can become a President. A black man could never hope to be oh wait never mind.

>>896123
We white guys have spent hundreds, if not thousands of years on top, other people deserve their day in the sun.

>>896125
Privilege just means having access to more resources because of some socially constructed trait or classification (like race, class, gender, etc.)

Although racial oppression exists, I think female oppression is greatly exaggerated. Women enjoyed all the comforts an empire of servile men could provide, and not only didn't have to work - they weren't allowed.

>>896110
Well, some races have less money on average than others. These are the ones who are less priviledged. I don't think priviledge is essentially racial. If the Indian man from India is from a wealthy family, in a high caste then he is more priviledge than the Western man of Indian descent who lives in a trailer park. You can make statistical generalizations, but in the end it is case specific.

>>896128
>implying that if Barack Obama wasn't half-white, didn't have white mannerisms and several white features he would've still been elected.

>>896132
This is derived from inherited wealth.

>>896134
Why is less money necessarily oppressive? Many countries in the world today who have the happiest citizens by poll are nowhere near the richest countries.

>>895692

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>>896147
We weren't talking about happiness, but priviledge.

>>896147
>Somalia is a land of rainbows and butterflies.

>>896155
If people in Somalia were intelligent they would've been self-sufficient hundreds of years ago.

>>895691
ＷWW.ＡNOLＯlｔALK.SＥ_RePlaＣe_ｌoｌ_ＷItｈ_N
pldsuhrm dv n u al r grhmkitxbyhmbw

>>896138

White mannerisms?

>facepalm.jpg

>>896162
African traditional culture has endured for centuries, because of their intelligence. You think western culture is progress? Q: Are we not men?

>doesn't understand importance of money in society
>still worship rand
typical teenage american.

>>896168

If you call living in mud huts enduring then sure.

>>896168
Yes the culture has endured for hundreds of years but what now?
Their governments have all floundered, disappeared, or are almost entirely funded by other countries.
Name five African countries that have as many accomplishments as any eastern or western countries.

>>896177
You should try to actually contemplate african culture instead of denigrating it based on appearances, just saying.

>>896180
Maybe they have a different sense of acheivement than we do? I don't get why people favor cultural homogeneity so much. Also, colonialism.

>>896183
Not to mention the world bank fucking screwed them.

>>896183
Please do not answer my question with another question. I'd appreciate a straight forward answer.

Literature, science, math, travel, philosophy, inventions, architecture, anything. Seriously. You can even use what you consider "their" sense of achievement to judge if you explain it.

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qdagpimw l w pw yqtuquxovkbr o pqa

>>896191
yep and the next stops on their world fucking tour are US and EU

>>896183
As to not appear a hypocrite: I said nothing of western culture in my original post, hence why I ignored your question pertaining to western culture.

ｗｗＷ.ＡｎOlＯlTaｌｋ.Ｓe_rＥPlＡCe ｌｏＬ ｗItｈ N
wxkwxax iamy dindccmf ki ebdtskutokghavx koj

>african culture

>>896192
I was only suggesting that it is possible to derive value from other sources than financial or technological or academic advancement. I believe that the average African is probably less out of touch with the material conditions of their life than the average westerner. I can't really discuss this at length due to my ignorance, and the point of that statement is that we in the West shouldn't judge the rest of the worlds cultures by how closely they resemble our own.

>>896195
>Name five African countries that have as many accomplishments as any eastern or western countries.
is this you?

WｗW.AnOＬOｌTａlＫ.ｓＥ ｒEＰＬaｃｅ_ｌｏｌ ｗｉTＨ n
tarajdyguzd lz v iw pyng mdb pu vh uwz i eeuexow

>>896200
>I believe that
>I can't really discuss this at length due to my ignorance

Socrates would be very, very disappoint with you.

>>896207
Why, I'm not attempting rhetoric so much as voicing my sincere opinion. Take it for what you will, what happens in 4chan stays in 4chan..

As if Africans don't immigrate in droves to western countries when given the chance, and then try to get their entire family moved out after them.

I'm black as fuck but I sure as hell wouldn't live in Africa if you fucking paid me. I don't know any black person who would WANT to live in Africa.

>>896212
Well that is probably more indicative of your culture than African culture. Africa faces a lot of problems, which is why so many people leave, but when I talk to immigrants from Africa they always talk about how they miss home, how here people aren't as honest, etc. I'm just saying that I'm sure africa's culture is exceptional in many ways, just not perhaps the ways we judge our own culture's success...

>>896216

name the ways then.

>>896216
Yeah, at least Africa's culture has yet to go meta...

>>896216
They may miss home, but you'd have a hard time finding one who would be willing to go back to the hell-hole that is modern day Africa.

>>896216

Because hacking people's limbs off and raping them is so fucking honest, right? FFS...

>>896218
Well, I have already admitted that I am not a scholar on Africa, but my point is that I am skeptical of judgements made against a culture which are based on the idea that they don't resemble western culture, or that western culture is somehow paramount.

>>896223
yes I am sure that is what all africans do all day, everyday.

>>896216
Why is it so hard for you to think that maybe African culture is not well adapted for a 21st century world? I'm as we-are-the-world love everyone hippy dippy socialist paradise as you get, but I can't honestly say I think African culture is suffering severely because of lack of technological and political progress.

>>896228
Well, enough of them do it that the ones who don't want to leave, so...

>>896220
Many of them come here and are forced to stay out of economic necessity. You might be surprised that many immigrants are rather unhappy but have been caught up in the rat race and will like have a long time to go before they can afford to return home.

>>896216
Name four other ways African's view their culture as superior:
1. Honesty
2. ???
3. ???
4. ???
5. ???

>>896232
Yes, they want to go back. Which is why they try to bring their families over here. So they can all work together to go back.

>>896230
I am skeptical of the idea of ''progress''. This idea was born and fleshed out during an era which I personally find to have been rather poisonous (18 century Europe). My idea is this, maybe Africa isn't adapted to the 21st century world, but maybe it is like when a person doesn't fit into a clique because they aren't totally sociopathic like the rest of the clique..I know it's a pretty broad metaphor, and of course I can't ''prove'' something that is subjective...

>>896240
The ancient greeks viewed themselves as being ahead of the rest of the world in their technology and philosophy. The Romans felt the same way. 18th century Europe has nothing to do with the idea of progress.

>>896239
I have tried not to make broad generalizations and I would appreciate if you did so as well...
>>896236
Once again, I am not attempting to make a qualitative defense of African culture, only to suggest that there are other standards which cultures may be judged as successful than our own standards...ffs

>>896224
what would you have us compare it too then? we are the west currently has the most successful culture. Africans leave their country to come to north america far more often then the other way around.

>>896243
That is really stupid. If you knew anything about the so called Age of Reason and the word ''progress'' as it existed then and how the current conceptualization of ''progress'' was largely formed during that time, you wouldn't have said that.

African-American here (not just black, actually from Sudan). Whites are the only ones that think African culture is so superior and special. I would never go back in a million years and the only people I know who would want to go back because their religion says westerners are the devil, even though they give you everything on a silver platter. If someone were to stone my sister to death for holding hands with a man here in Canada they would be put in jail for life, in Sudan it was just considered "whatever" and that she deserved it. Fuck you white people who think you know what it's like to be African.

>>896249
I really couldn't say specifically what standards to judge african culture, only maybe that judgement is impertinant and that we should accept difference. That is the real problem in my eyes, this push for cultural homogeneity. It will turn the world into a hyper-real waste land for sure.

>>896246
But what are those standards? You keep saying "other standards" but what are they?

>>896246

See: >>896254

>>896254
Your individual opinion is not a universal truth. People are different, I'm sure. I didn't say that African culture was necessarily superior, only that I can find fault in my own culture and the fault is that it wishes the entire world to look the same

>my face when /lit/ is filled with supplicating, white-guilt ridden liberals

>>896258
I'm arguing that cultural values are subjective. standards was just a poor word choice.

>>896263
Then why did you take a break from watching Glen Beck?

>>896262
>That doesn't count because I don't want it to.

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>>896262

> says someone's individual opinion is not a universal truth
> has an opinion
> thinks his opinion is a universal truth

>>896266
>implying I even know who the fuck that is

>>896269
That's not what I said, I just said that a single opinion is not going to refute or change my own thinking. Sure, it may create a new facet to my understanding, but you haven't turned the tide of my opinion in one fell swoop.

Liberals are idiots out of touch with reality.
Conservatives are idiots out of touch with reality.
Everybody is wrong. Nobody is right.

>>896246896246
you speak like you have very little understanding of what culture is. It is a well defined word and to deny that the western world is leading the world in cultural influence is simply ignorant

...wait you already admitted your ignorance, why are we discussing this at all? It must simply be your persistence and everyones wish that you would
SHUT UP!

>>896275
>pretending you don't
girlslaughing.jpg

Seriously, I have just expressed my opinion with deference and candor. I tried to clear up misunderstanding by answering questions. Problem?

>>896276
>a single opinion is not going to refute or change my own thinking
>keeps spouting off opinions trying to change other people's thinking

>>896278
Englishman's fallacy

Even if you are right it is for the wrong reasons

>>896281
I meant ignorance of African Culture. I swear /lit/'s butt gets soooo hurt whenever anyone refuses to roll over instantly on an unpopular opinion.

>>896283
I'm not forcing anyone to listen, and I wasn't denigrating the value of opinion, only saying why the African who wasn't the same as the other African's which I referred to wouldn't have my mind changed just because I disagreed....

>>896288
So, your words have no value and there is no reason to pay attention to anything you say? Cool.

>>896286
eating your own shit is unpopular too. Lets talk about our opinoins on that for a while it will be more productive.

>>896262
Dammit whitey, I am from Africa, stop treating me like your opinion is more factual than mine about Africa just because you have so much white guilt that you feel the need to equalize everyone when things aren't so. Have you ever even been to the continent? No one said they wanted all cultures to be the same, only that Africa is lagging in MAJOR fields like medicine, science, civil rights, etc. Yes, African stories are beautiful, as is African art and music. That doesn't make up for the fact that Africa is a fucking hell hole when it comes to food and hygiene, two vital things for humans to thrive. Africa was used and abused by outsiders and insiders alike, it makes perfect sense that it lags behind most of the rest of the world. Don't insult hundreds of years of oppression by saying "oh progress is a horrible word, there are different standards for accomplishment" as if Africa is on the same playing field as the rest of the world.

>>896292
Do you come on /lit/ to attentively hear experts and high intellectuals discuss the most relevant topics of the day with only acute expertise and accuracy? good luck.

>>896294
Okay, I get you. I didn't say your opinion was less valuable than mine, just that you didn't convince me to think as you do. I have anarchist tendencies and so my ideas about cultural progress may be a bit different than yours. I understand that Africa is materially poor, but that isn't exactly the same as being culturally poor.

ITT: A massive, Obama-voting, white-hating faggot who is the cancer killing Western society

>>896297
Nope. I'm mostly here to make fun of people's tastes and to troll the ever living fuck out of sbleeding-heart liberals.

>>896302
>I have anarchist tendencies
>hello i'm 15

Culture is not about how pretty the paintings are or how entertaining the stories are. Culture is all about foreign influence. the more foreign influence you have the stronger your culture. How much foreign influence comes from Africa? Zilch.

I really don't get why you people are so mad. I was just voicing my opinion, as we all are. I did not even get down to crassness or name calling. I am not a ''liberal'' I don't hate ''whites'' (I really do like western culture in some ways) and I am just trying to genially discuss this, but all i've gotten in response (except for the person from Africa) is vague and attacking nonsense. Seriously, I am sorry if I have offended anyone.

>>895691

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>>896317
I don't agree with this conceptualization of culture. How did you arrive at it?

>>896321
>I really don't get why you people are so mad

Pic related.

>>896321
The problem is that you seem to think that novels written by "opressed" classes are inherently better for some reason, which is obviously not the case.

>>896325
So? Why does that make people mad?

>>896330
I don't think this, I only think the oppressed classes are represented a lot less than the upper classes. And i think this makes for a ''smaller gene pool'' speaking metaphorically, for cultural material.

>>896332
Because you continue to hold it, despite the fact that it is incorrect. Same reason people hate religion.

>>896317
con't
Whether you like it or not America has the strongest culture today. music, language, style ect. all over the world you can see american influence even walmart and mcdonalds are the result of american culture.

I admit this and I'm not even american.

>>896340
Most pervasive and ''strongest'' don't mean the best or better, that is what I think anyway. Most people are of average or below average intelligence, does this mean that lower intelligence is the better sort of intelligence?

>>896335
people who hate religion for that reason are badly missing the point.

>>896344
Sure it does. It wouldn't have become dominant if it wasn't in some way more useful or attractive than the cultures it replaces.

>>896332
It makes them mad because you are white and hypocritically telling not one, but two black people that their experiences in life and with their own community are wrong and that your white experience is right. Have you ever stopped to think how insulting it is that you value your own white opinion over that of actual black people when it comes to race?

>>896324
If you are going to redefine culture before you argue about culture because you "dont like that definition" then for fuck's sake I'm gonna argue that the sky is fucking yellow because I don't like the way you define your colours.

>>896356
Arbitrarily decontextualizing and twisting my opinions doesn't disprove what I was saying. Just because I disagree with a black person, doesn't mean I am racist. And thinking that it does is a subtly racist tendency.

>>896360
see, to me, that is perfectly valid. I think the meaning of words is important, I am a fan of semiotics.

>>896352
I don't think this is necessarily true, it sounds like Candide (not a bad thing, just noting the /lit/ relevance)

>>896361
>You do exactly what I do, but I'm allowed to do it because I'm white.

>>896361
I never said anything about being racist, only ignorant and self-important, two things I'm sure you are critical of in white culture.

>>896344
>Most people are of average or below average intelligence

I think we are done here. No one should be that stupid but here we are. I sincerely hope you are a troll but you are way to convincing. 10/10 if you are a troll you gave a thrilling preformance

>>896375
Not always, I don't criticize white culture because I don't think the link between race and culture is very strong. Or that race is even a real thing.

>>896378
>Black people have the same skin colour as white people.

>>896381
>skin color indicates more than just skin color

>race politics discussion on lit
>rational and informed
oh boy

>>896383
>Modern conceptions of race have not been almost exclusively defined in terms of the colour of someone's skin

>>896389
>modern conceptions of race are largely correct or accurate

>>896392
>ideas have to be accurate for people to believe in them and act as if they are a reality

>>896378
replace "white" with "western", same shit, different name.

>>896398
I don't mean it to be the same. Western culture is for me (when I am criticizing it) The culture developed with the imperative of materialism. I disagree with cynical materialism. I am actually surprised that so much of /lit/ is conservative...

>>896344

Tools are made for a purpose.That is, that once a tool is being made it has some kind of intended purpose. The purpose is a human purpose. We makes tools to better serve us. From that we can easily tell which tool is a better one because the better tool serves us better.

Society is kind of the same. The best society should have what is best for us. The problem is: what is best for us?

Yeah...

>>896405
If by "conservative" you mean "right in the head" then, yes, I can understand your surprise. Most insane people like to think that they are the only ones seeing the world as it really is.

>>896413
Hey, this might be true. I have several diagnoses, none of them very positive.

>>896410
Superior medicine, food production, communications technology, more structurally sound architecture, ect. Not that hard to figure out what is best for people.

>>896410
yeah that is pretty much what this comes down to.

>>896417
And yet, this is just one opinion of many.

>>895691

www.aＮｏLｏlＴAＬｋ.SE RｅＰＬａcＥ ＬｏL_ｗｉｔH ｎ
jhdtrqk i c qrk ihzyxgdwe ejmv qyszrhzwo

>>896420
Fortunately, it is the correct opinion.

>>896423
It must be nice...

>>896364
I don't like the current definition of gravity. I think gravity is really Electromagnetic radiation that has a wavelength in the range from about 4,000 to about 7,700 angstroms thus it would be impossible foe the earth to be held in orbit by the gravity from the sun. There must be some other force to hold the earths atmosphere in place because it would be absurd to think radiation of any kind can possibly do this. there is also obviously no relationship between gravity and friction because radiation cannae directly produce a force. thus I propose western science has made a grave error and is wrong more often than it is right. WE cannae trust science!

though the subject matter is different THIS IS WHAT YOU SOUND LIKE!

>>896405
conservative isn't the way i'd describe the situation, just not familiar with critical social theory. ideology has inertia

in other words, undereducated people are undereducated.

>>896405
I see, you sure like to make up definitions of words that are contrary to the commonly used definitions, then not tell anyone your "new" definition of said concept until after you've already argued with them.

Western culture =/= materialism
Progress =/= death of culture

>>896427
There is a reason why social sciences are considered seperate from natural science.

>>896425
Yup. Plenty of food, rarely sick, can talk to anyone, house never falls down on me. Feels good man.

>>896432
but are you happy?

>>896405
Conservative? Sudanese emigrant here again, I vote NDP. Which here in Canada is quite the opposite of conservative. You shouldn't go around insulting people because they disagree with you.

>>896436
Like I said. Feels good man.

>>896437
I wasn't saying everyone, and I don't even consider conservative an insult. I'm just surprised at it, considering this is a board about art.

I agree with this excerpt.

it's cool that you are trying to educate people on this culture thing, but seriously, why the tactical silliness? why are you conceding the need for material progress exclusively to the right and get already confused people further confused about what exactly motivates your own ideology?

>>896441
Wait, no. Didn't read through very carefully the first time, and then posted. Hierarchies are bad, unless they're in filesystems.

>>896442
I have really tried to become more dispassionate and have more fun with my internet arguments, at the cost of rigour.

>>896445
Make up your mind you flip-flopping communist tard.

>full article says books rock
>people on /lit/ rage against article not having read it
>people on /lit/ look like faggottards

>>896448
actually I think we were defending the internetz, as we are anonymous first, and readers second...

>>896448
WELCOME TO 4CHAN!

i'm sorry guys, the guy that's trying to portray the intelligent left's view on the whole culture and identity thing is misrepresenting our position. material progress is GOOD, science is GOOD, however, there are real questions of cultural domination. please do not continue in your ignorance and actuallyyy read up on the subject.

Wow, the quotations selected by OP really give a fucked up view of the article. It's completely different if you actually read it.

>Internet culture is egalitarian.
>Goes on to imply that egalitarianism is bad
>Western society is egalitarian.
>Is regressive and pines for Victorian England.
>Is an all-around elitist asshole.

>>896437
NDP? Really? They are supposed to be a joke candadate. They must be they are so fucked up in the head. here in canada we love to talk about how we have multiple candidates but we really only have 2 sane ones if you are being generous. Its a shame. despite being liberal I end up voting conservative because they are the only party that doesnt have there head up their ass. It's hovering closer than Id like though.

>>896453
I didn't say they were bad, just that they aren't the only standard of goodness, you dig?

>>895693
WWW.ＡｎolOｌtaLK.ｓＥ ＲEＰＬaＣｅ LOL ｗｉTｈ N
huffplljfrippqpwdbnknt rxnvaq xilet me

i just noticed this retarded article has generated 200 posts. wow

>>896447
Fuck you. I skimmed and then posted, you asshole.

Oh, wait.
<--

>>896436
Who the fuck in Africa is happy?
The 20% of children who die before reaching five years old?
The 15-20 million children orphaned by HIV/AIDS?
The 30 million adults infected with HIV?
The 51% of the population living on less than $1.25 per day in Sub-Sahara Africa?
The 400 million in extreme poverty?

>>896460
you didn't say it, but these retards obviously are confused. so you gotta explain to them why they are confused.

>>896462
Anloltalk? OH LAWDY

>>896466
>can't imagine how someone with HIV can be happy
>thinks that egocentrism is valid and factual

>>896455

>implying being egalitarian about knowledge is a good thing

THE EARTH IS BOTH ROUND AND FLAT, EVERYONE GETS A COOKIE AND A GOLD STAR

>>896438

You're missing the point. Everything you have listed is what it takes for YOU to be happy. Culture is not reduced to providing stable housing and long life spans.

>>896469
So, knowing you are going to die horribly is grounds to be happy in your world? I wish to have your mental illnesses.

>>896467
I know, but convincing people to change deeply-rooted assumptions give me a pain in the ass.

>>896470
>implying that that's what I'm implying

>>896477
So, you're a lazy bastard?

>>896475
People really can be happy in spite of a fatal illness, they are just confronted with their mortality in a less virtual sense, but we are all going to die, ya feelz me?

>>896479
indeed.

>>896481
>The doctor came in and said, "Congratulations! You have cancer!"

David Brooks in OP was right. This thread prove it: a bunch of faggot ass 17 year olds using big words to argue subjects they don't understand. They don't need to understand them, or have qualifications - IT'S THE INTERNET!@

>>896481
I find it difficult to imagine happiness knowing your immune system is going to go to shit and you'll die of the common cold. Very War of the Worlds when you think about it.

>>896484
what is a good, culturally advanced way to die? Do you really think anyone dies ''peacefully'' in their sleep? All that means is that noone heard or noticed or cared when they did hear the persons dying gasps and gurgles...

>>896478

It is, given that that is the egalitarianism the article talks about.

Or did you even read it?

>>896487
when you don't have a choice, you have to move on.

>>896491
When people don't have a choice, they tend to develop depression as a result of learned helplessness.

>>896488

>what is a good, culturally advanced way to die?

A big ol' morphine injection

>>896497
ah shit, brother, now you're talking!

>>895692
ＷｗW.ａNｏＬｏｌｔAＬk.Sｅ_ｒｅｐLＡCＥ_Loｌ ｗITh_Ｎ
vm cxnuhexu ywt tee civjmuvjazbyczaa

>>896496
You do realize that the US and other western cultures have a much higher incidence of depression?

>>896469
I get what you're trying to imply but we're talking about people who will get zero medical attention, not people like Magic Johnson who have access to medicine that can let him live a fairly pain-free and normal life.

>>896487

Yes, the majority of people will not find happiness in cancer. Does this mean that all that is needed to find happiness is a majority vote?

>>896502
That's just emokids. They aren't people.

>>896502
It's called "depression" in the west because it's illogical, in people with shitty lives it's called having a fucking realistic reaction.

>>896503
I just don't think it is impossible for an HIV positive person, even without proper treatment, to be happy. Happiness is something you have to decide to be, imho.

>>896502
Japan is starting to have a lot of depression.
US companies are really trying to push psych. medication over there.
I don't remember where I heard that..

IF YOU THINK THAT WESTERN CULTURE IS WORSE THAN AFRICAN, MIDDLE EASTERN, OR EAST ASIAN CULTURES, YOU ARE A RETARD.

>>896510
this is true as well. I kind of meant it that way. I don't know, I think people can still be resilient in a bad environment. And I think pain is relative.

>>896511
Happiness is a state of mind coming about as a result of your life not being terribad. If you think you can make yourself feel happy when your flesh is rotting off your bone and you have no control over it, you have some serious issues.

>>896472
Didn't we just go over this?
There is no value to distinguish between cultures. How "good" a culture is, is simply a measure of foreign influence. USA is the most influential in the arts, lifestyle ect. thus the have the "best" culture whether you or I like it or not. All you are succeeding in arguing is that western culture is not your favorite.

TREASON!

j/k but seriously nobody cares about your personal favorite culture anymore then you care that my favorite colour is red

>>896512
Probably from a man wearing a tinfoil hat.

>>896517
I've had to deal with some real traumatic shit in my life, I won't go into it, but no I don't think comfort is a prerequisite for happiness.

>>896517

What is happiness?

>>896453


I have read enough about "your" position to know that the left is confused and self-contradictory. There is no unified position on "the left."

Also, fuck the left and its cultural deconstruction. You aren't doing shit to help humanity.

>>896513
if you think that it is inherently better, then you are mistaken.

This thread is proof that /lit/ will never be one of the great boards on 4chan.

If anyone read OP's article, you'd see the general message is "books are awesome!" However, faggot 16 year olds (98% of /lit/'s population) start fighting over some minor point, which derails the entire god damn thread. Since the faggots HAVE to puff their chests and be right, the shit just grows exponentially.

YOU'RE the reason /lit/ is shit. Jesus fuck, a board called Comics and Cartoons has more mature conversations than a board where we should be discussing Hemmingway.

Jesus fuck, /lit/ anon, this is why we can't have nice things. YOU.

>>896524
Happiness is the ultimate end, the psychological state that every normal person desires for no reason other than because it feels good man.

>>896521
I totally care that your favorite color is red because it is my favorite color too.

>>896531
if you can't see the article for the retard hurr piece that it is, you are the problem.

>>896531
I think the conversation is fine. Sorry we don't live up to your standards, dad! Why didn't you just abort me?!?!?!?!

>>896530

sheltered white kid detected.

>>896521
Yeah, I do care what your favorite color is, bro.

>>896527
Hey hey hey, this isn't a left-right issue. You can look at the diversity of the ideas on immigration and international aid on the left to see that clearly.

>>896537
What do you even mean by this wild assertion. I could go into why I am far from sheltered, but what would be the point? I just respect current, up to date cultural theory. I have read BOOKS on the subject and I find it to be reasonable.

>>896531
You are a cancer sir.
YOUR anger will poison YOUR soul.

>>896532 <------ Poof that everyone has a different interpretations of happiness. I have no idea what this guy is talking about, but if what he says makes him happy then that's great.

>>896531
Oh no, a thread derailed from its original topic and instead of flooding the board with a new thread on that subject people just commented in the same one.
WOE IS YOU.

>>896530
read
>>896521

>>896540

I was responding to a poster who implied that there was a unified position on the left about Western cultural imperialism. There is not such a thing.

Also, I find most of the left's attempts at cultural deconstruction to be utter garbage.

This is a left-right issue, to some extent.

>>896543
Current cultural theory is a postmodernist clusterfuck of contradiction and bad reasoning.

>>896548
Go read Aristotle if you don't understand what happiness is.

>>896550
well, by that standard I see what you mean.

>>896552
I disagree, I think it is a valid and productive discourse. Also, postmodernism is mostly for the lulz dont you know? Cultural theory is not always ''post-modern''.

>>896562
>I don't read current cultural theory

>>896566
No U! seriously, It has been my experience that higher levels of butt-hurt towards cultural theory are directly proportional to the same person's incomprehension of cultural theory.

>>896543

>> I have read BOOKS on the subject and I find it to be reasonable.

What are you trying to imply by capitalizing books? That I too haven't read any?

>>I just respect current, up to date cultural theory.

1) There is no unified "cultural theory".

2) You probably are referring to what was most "currently" taught to you in some class. Guess what? Class content changes all the time, especially in the humanities, and from professor to professor.

3) In any case, I don't care what "the most current theory" is.

4) Pick a real major. I used to be in the humanities too, until I woke up and asked what the fuck I was doing with my time.

>>896533
along with millions of others congradufuckinglations there aren't that many colours to pick from provided you don't choose something fucktardedly specific
also red isn't actually my favorite colour it was just thee first that came to mind because I was thinking about the red power ranger. DON'T ASK WHY!

>>896572
And what was the last book on cultural theory you happened to read, good sir?

>>896527
the right is simply retarded on the topic, the "left" here stands for sensible discourse. of course, a lot of people on the left are bent out of shape on certain issues, but hey, it is at least better than hurrr nativism.

>>896574
I just emphasized books to suggest that this was somehow /lit/ related. There is no unified theory of physics, either, you know...And what you said about the humanities is well, it just hurts my butt is all.

>>896577
Foucault's Madness and Civilization.

>>896580
The goal of physics is a unified theory. Cultural theorists aren't trying to reach that. They're just fighting amongst themselves.

>>896580
no thats all the BUTTSEX!!!!!!!!!!!!! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

>>896585
I think physicists do this to some extent as well, but you are largely correct about the factionalized nature of culture theory.

>>895693

WｗW.ＡNＯＬＯｌtAlK.ＳE rｅＰlａＣｅ Loｌ_ｗＩtｈ_n
mpxyjj lr y xprz vtsfmgnyar hi tuezwo

>>896584
>originally published in 1961

>>896585
that's simply not true. disagreements only happen because there is a common issue of engagement.

>>896580

>>no unified theory of physics
>>no unified cultural theory

There is a big fundamental difference. In physics, the only disagreements are about issues that cannot be solved by empirical observation.

Cultural theory is just, well, a clusterfuck of contradictory opinions.

>>896591
I'm not saying that the last book I read was the most up to date in the sense of time since publishing....

>>896597
Well, is it strings or particles?

>>896595
Disagreements happen because nobody is willing to admit they are wrong, and every theory can explain everything just as well as every other theory.

>>896601

see
>>cannot be solved by empirical observation

>>896598
It still isn't helping your claim of familiarity with CURRENT cultural theory.

>>896603
I don't think every theory is as good as the next. There is quack science, and quack cultural theory as well. It just takes time to sort it out and give us a break. Culture theory is a lot younger than the Physical sciences.

>>896595
I DISAGREE HIPPOPOTUMUSUS ARE WAY COOLER THAN YOUR "common issue of engagement" BULLSHIT!

>>896598

>>implying that Focault is "the most current"

>>896606
Well, I think time will tell if anything in culture theory can be solved by empirical observation. At this time, it has yet to even define itself.

this situation is really a tragic commentary on the feeble nature of humanities department politics. there is a publishing quota, and there is only so much you can say about politics within the constraints of theory, since professors are not engaged with the actual exercise of political action and the assorted real, practical problems that arise from engaging with society actively. how to confront racial and cultural prejudices? why i've never spoken to a student with that stupid of an opinion who also dares to express it!

find better rhetoric and tactics, please.

>>896609

Go read some ancient philosophers, for Chrissakes. Read Plato's Republic.

People have been making theories about culture and social issues for a long time.

>>896613
Didn't imply that, I was just asked for the last book I have read. I do try to stay current, but I can't just read what has been published most currently. Foucault is still very relevant to cultural theory. You wouldn't denounce the Physics student for reading Issac Newton.

>>896620
theories about culture is not necessarily culture theory.

>>896603
they are addressing the same questions, just like physics.

>>896621
First you claimed familiarity with current cultural theory, now you say you can't keep up with the current theory. Which is it?

>>896619
you come across as having a false sense of superiority.

>>896615

>>At this time, it has yet to even define itself.

This is why humanities departments are worthless.

>>896625
I just meant I can't exactly keep up with what is published most currently, but that I do read as much relevant information as I can find. Foucault is still relevant.

>>896620
calm down
you'll break a bone or something.

but yes, there is such thing as epistemic progress in social theoryyy. it is just very difficult and inefficient for a variety of reasons that you obviously don't understand or care to understand.

>>896623

Mind giving a concise explanation of what the hell it is about then?

>>896627
Just because something isn't practical doesn't mean it is useless, and if it were practical it wouldnt be called Theory.

>>896629
Yes, but he is far from being current, even if he is relevant. Machiavelli is still relavent to modern politics, but he isn't considered to be the core of political theory.

>>896626
i dont feel superior, i feel bad because people are wasting time on unimportant issues generated by the structure of academia, rather than caring about real political issues with urgency. it's a loss of potential for the so called political energy within the humanities departments.

>ITT white people tell Africans that they're wrong about their own continent and argue over the semantics of "progress" with 1st world problems like "percentage of happy people" in response to Africans talking about serious livability issues like medicine and food access.

Stay classy, /lit/.

>>896635
or you could say, it is the most practical of ALL human activities because it is a reflection upon all human cultural activity.

isn't that betterrrrrrrr

>>896630

>>but yes, there is such thing as epistemic progress >>in social theoryyy.

Why are using the word epistemic here? Do you even know what it means?

>>it is just very difficult and inefficient for a variety of >>reasons that you obviously don't understand or >>care to understand.

Or maybe it is that there is nothing to understand. Your "culture theory" is just a bunch of smoke and mirrors.

>>896639
Noone said you couldn't do both.

>>896640
>An opinion of one african on 4chan is the universal opinion of all africans

>>896648
epistemic progress in the same way scientific theories achieve epistemic progress. yes, i obviously know what it means. i also recognize your obvious sophomoric shallowness, but i'll let it slide since you seem sincerely interested in the subject.

>>896648
Culture and Critical theory are becoming more valuable to the political realm, specifically because political actions, in order to be comprehensible and to be relevant, must engage in a meaningful dialogue with culture. Radical desire is such that it needs to create new words and concepts to adequately express its self and its meaning. ahem.

>>896650
it is not being done. for the most part.

>>896663
I agree, actually, and it is a shame.

>>896660

The only thing I am interested in is making sure there are less humanities majors spouting PoMo bullshit like yourself.


>>epistemic progress in the same way scientific theories achieve epistemic progress.

Scientific theories "progress" when they acquire evidence in its favor. PoMo cultural theories, by their nature, are precluded from obtaining such evidence. Epistemic is a philosophical term that is unnecessary.

>>896686
i'm sorry that your undergraduate education was unsatisfying. i really am.

in any case, social theory does have empirical touch-points, but the thing you have to realize is this, no social science stands alone. conclusions within say neurobiology will have implications on social theory, so will results from empirical psychology.

>>896697

no need to pity me. I think I got the better deal in the long run.

>>896702
you did, but you are also pretty ignorant and mad for no reason.

You realize David Brooks is an asshole, and not to be taken seriously.

>>896712
Holy shit dude, I loling all over the place. I love it when someone with some actual intelligence fucking PWNs the fuck out of some scrub engineer with a chip on their shoulder.

holy shit did this reach the bump limit?

>>896712

You confuse my contempt for ignorance.

I do get pissed when people spout retarded theories about Western cultural imperialism. I grant that there may be some such theories that have a grain of truth, but for the most part these theories are used to infantilize non-Western cultures and hold them to a less rigorous standard than we would apply to the West (among other reasons)

>>896722

am looking for the pwnage, none to be seen.

>>896729
dudeeee you need to say more about this subject so we know how much you know about it.

>>896729
No, they're most used to ineffectual urge ourselves and our peers within our own culture to stop waging an imperialist war, exploiting the third world, or step up and stop someone else from doing the same.

If you have a problem with humanities, it should mostly be that no one has listened to them. But that's nothing new. If Athens had listened to Pericles, they would have won the Peloponnesian war, and if Romans had understood his speech (a speech which they venerated) they would never have done the evil things they did and probably would have an empire to this day.

>>896736

Im not the one boasting about reading a 1961 Focault book. Seriously, who the fuck brags about the last book they read on an internet forum?

>>896735
That's because you're the one who got PWN'd. He accurately assessed your innate cruelty and you had no counter of any kind.

>>896741
i'm not that guy either.

>>896741
you cockface I only even mentioned it because someone fucking asked me directly what the last book I read was. also you troll me. 9/10

>>896743

>>assessed your innate cruelty and you had no counter of any kind

by saying (the equivalent of) "u mad"?

>>896752
what retarded pomo stuff did you read in your shitty sociology class?