/lit/ - Literature

Can you give her my phone number?

>>8955392
Ask her if she can explain her position, she's given a what with no why.

>women
>philosophy
western """civilization""" was a mistake

hnnnnng

>>8955392
start a dialectic exploration of her stance and slowly nitpick it into tatters

>>8955400

Yes.

>>8955406

Amen.

>>8955392

>'The Republic' - which is just Plato having a conversation with his imaginary friends about how morally superior they are (and remember, it's just him talking to himself here), and concludes by proving that the world should be governed by philosopher kings. It has like.... zero intellectual merit.

Give me her name and address. I want to kill this bitch.

>le logical Aristotle

Tell her to stop pretending to be smart and commit suicide.

Post her mobile number, I dare you.

>>8955392
>people know Plato
>if I pretend EVERYONE is wrong and actually Aristotle who is more esoteric is correct that will prove how smart and different I am
>probably didn't read or understand either
ok

>>8955432

>implying OP even has the balls to look at her IRL.

She's basically right though.

>it's a The Republic is just a political treatise episode

>>8955465

Kys my man.

>>8955392

It's another episode of "21st century pampered/sheltered student thinks they're smarter than the greatest minds in all of Human history"

>>8955432

>Implying I know her number

>>8955392
>It has like.... zero intellectual merit. Fuck 'The Republic'

This bitch should be working the fields as a serf, not studying at a university.

she's the most patrician person you'll ever meet OP. she's right about everything

>>8955538

Hating Plato is pretty patrish.

Her reasoning is awful though.

>Philosopher kings
>Bad

>Plato

>Bad

>When 1/3 of Aristotle is invalidated by modern science

Also if a philosophy program only makes you read The Republic from Plato and nothing else it's actually trash

>>8955548

Schopenhauer said all you need is Plato and Kant tbqh

>>8955549

No I meant that if the only thing they show you from Plato is The Republic and not his other dialogues, well that's actually stupid as fuck.

You need to read at least 4-5 to get a good idea of the man, and ideally all of them.

>>8955392
>If you want to read the ancient Greeks, my recommendation is to read everything Aristotle ever wrote, and then call it a day.
solid recommendation desu. Aristotle is way better.

>It's impossible to like both Plato and Aristotle.

I prefer Plato mainly because the Theory of Forms is the most compelling metaphysical theory in existence, and also because neoplatonism is based as fuck. His preferred political arrangement is one a spiritual eugenic aristocracy (one which every Patrician should agree with)

However, there are aspects of Aristotle that are excellent too, mainly certain aspects of Metaphysics and the Nicomachean Ethics.

This bitch is just a another Modern pseud who probably doesn't even understand Plato, and is just triggered by the idea of Philosopher kings. What's the bet she likes Aristotle merely because he appeals to her shallow scientism?

She should be in the kitchen anyway.

>>8955563
spotted the pseud

>>8955392
She sounds like she visits /lit/

>>8955392
This is actually a brilliant critique of Plato's Republic. Remember the part where Socrates claims that the difference between men and women is only the body, that the soul is the same? Really makes you wonder if perhaps he wasn't wrong about that.

>>8955543
>plato's philosopher kings
you realise that's asking for some needlessly homoerotic shit? you just need to read his strawmen in symposium or any shit about socrates no longer liking alcibiades to see he is fagging every system up with his cocklust

>bunch of autists sho support monarchism and aristocracy are most bothered by this

Sounds about right for Plato lovers.

she is right

Aristotle > Plato

Why do plebs always think this?

Let me explain why I'd recommend this book to everyone: Plato is stupid.

Seriously.

And it's important that you all understand that Western society is based on the fallacy-ridden ramblings of an idiot. Read this, understand that he is not joking, and understand that Plato is well and truly fucked in the head.

Every single one of his works goes like this:

SOCRATES: "Hello, I will now prove this theory!"
STRAWMAN: "Surely you are wrong!"
SOCRATES: "Nonsense. Listen, Strawman: can we agree to the following wildly presumptive statement that is at the core of my argument?" {Insert wildly presumptive statement here— this time, it's "There is such a thing as Perfect Justice" and "There is such a thing as Perfect Beauty", among others.}
STRAWMAN: "Yes, of course, that is obvious."
SOCRATES: "Good! Now that we have conveniently skipped over all of the logically-necessary debate, because my off-the-wall crazy ideas surely wouldn't stand up to any real scrutiny, let me tell you an intolerably long hypothetical story."
{Insert intolerably long hypothetical story.}
STRAWMAN: "My God, Socrates! You have completely won me over! That is brilliant! Your woefully simplistic theories should become the basis for future Western civilization! That would be great!"
SOCRATES: "Ha ha! My simple rhetorical device has duped them all! I will now go celebrate by drinking hemlock and scoring a cameo in Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure!"

The moral of the story is: Plato is stupid.

>one of the most well known classical greek philosophical works
>thinks it's bullshit
>doesn't want philosophy students to learn about it

What a retard. That would give you even more reason to learn about it.

>>8955595
>I prefer Plato mainly because the Theory of Forms is the most compelling metaphysical theory in existence
The compelling metaphysical theory that even Plato realised had more holes than the Titanic?

The republic is worth a read but she's not wrong that Aristotle is better for political shit. Aristotle's Politics takes the good stuff from Republic and makes it more nuanced. Republic is a retarded roller coaster for easily half of the book, and anyone who thinks his ideal republic would be functional in any way is high on their on philosophical farts.

best part of republic is where he discusses the regimes and their corresponding 'personality' of a person, that shit transcends time and you can still see the sort of things he was talking about today. Still, when it comes to a discussion of the regimes Aristotle covers that base anyway.

>>8955719
Holy... I understood that reference...

>>8955392
Even if you think Plato is shit wouldn't knowing Plato's works be a fucking useful reference point anyway?

>>8955392

If you were as smart as you think you are you would have simply elucidated why you think she is mistaken instead of venting on /lit/.
Either stop being a cowardly faggot and engage, or accept that you aren't as intelligent as you want to project yourself as being.

>>8955777

>Implying a """critique""" like that merits anything other than mockery on /lit/

>>8955791

If it's that bad then it should be all the more effortlessly demolished.

>>8955392

Congratulations.

You now know that women can't do philosophy.

>>8955741
>The compelling metaphysical theory that even Plato realised had more holes than the Titanic?

Yes.

>>8955392
>Not liking Plato

Jesus fucking christ its weird how someone can be so wrong about something they were presumably TAUGHT about.

I didn't realize how great The Republic was until some intro philosophy course, but now I know better.

>>8955392

She sounds patrician as fuck OP. Being so contemptuous towards Plato she doesn't even care about providing reasons.

>Implying The Republic isn't riddled with inconsistencies
>Implying any inconsistency isn't explained away by Plato fanboys as Socratic Irony

It's a smart rhetorical move, I'll give him that. Claiming you were being "ironic" whenever someone catches you being an idiot.

>>8955595

>HURR, I can't explain it except in allegories
>Also, in book X I'll speak at length on how allegories and other works of mimesis cannot possibly confer any knowledge

>>8955841

>I didn't realize how great The Republic was until some intro philosophy course, but now I know better.

Did your professor teach you how to define middlebrow yet?

>it's another /lit/ shits on women thread

I miss the discussion about books

>>8955744
Ehhh, Aristotle goes into more detail about politics, but the political theory in Plato is supposed to be symbolic of a higher truth. i.e: Justice involves escaping the cave and seeking Truth. If one can master this within themselves (the aristocratic character) then society will naturally reflect justice. The esoteric point is more important than necessarily the details of his utopia.

(although the general theory of aristocracy and his critique of democracy still hold up today)

>>8955843
>Also, in book X I'll speak at length on how allegories and other works of mimesis cannot possibly confer any knowledge

>implying Plato doesn't realise this

You don't understand Forms.

>>8955843

>Being so contemptuous towards X she doesn't even care about providing reasons.

So she's attending the Harold Bloom School of Literary Criticism?

>>8955406
Yuk yuk yuk you virgins sure are a hoot!

Have you heard this one? "Go back to the kitchen and sammich me!" yuk yuk yuk

>>8955797
There's not really anything to argue. She's just making observations and framing them as statements.

>He has hypothetical conversations.
Yeah. Socratic dialogue. And? No reason for this form being flawed is given
>Morally superior to others
And? Why is this a bad thing? Are there not less and more moral people? Shouldn't the most moral govern?
>concludes the world should be governed by philosopher kings
You could take that away from a single book, but the whole of the republic is much more both in a literary and philosophical sense.

And this is all without saying that Plato is the basis of almost all latter philosophers including Aristotle himself. Or rather Socrates who is (presumably) authentically portrayed by Plato.

>Shittiest representation of academic philosophy:
Probably because this cunt is looking for absolute objectivity and finds subjectivity and abstraction everywhere. Plato worked with what he could incredibly well and artistically which is way more than could be said than many.

>>8955847

Exactly when was that?

Add her on Facebook OP. Tell her you posted what she wrote on a Columbian wood decorating forum and see if she sends you nudes.

>>8955860
Stop calling them virgins, they are self-conscious of it. They are just trying to be funny blah blah. Not worthy.

>>8955857

Right, so what was the purpose of the analogies?

>>8955899
See >>8955851

>>8955859
No, because Bloom gets Plato's Dialogues in his Canon.

>>8955919

But analogies can confer no knowledge, according to Plato.

>>8955926
It can provide reflections of higher truths.

Don't pretend you don't understand the difference between an analogy and a deliberate piece of art.

>>8955925

I meant criticizing things without providing reasons.

That's 90% of what Bloom does.

>>8955932

>Don't pretend you don't understand the difference between an analogy and a deliberate piece of art.

Oh but I do. Plato explicitly shits on ALL forms of mimesis. And don't analogies, by definition, work through mimesis? Isn't that their very point?