/lit/ - Literature

>Students want to decide what they need to learn to become educated.
Great idea.

>>8952569
i wonder wich meme i am

hopefully sad frog hes my fav lol

>>8952569

roll

>>8952569
rolling

>>8952570

Well, whatever the article says, i think the students have the right to PARTICIPATE of the reflexion of what they will study.

So what African/PoC philosopher do they want them to be replaced?

I was pissed at first but then I read into it.

They're part of the School of Oriental and Asian Studies, so its understandable why they'd want less whiteys.

Not that I agree with them at all though.

>>8952596
Yeah, doesn't seem all that outrageous. They'll still have Descartes and Kant on the curriculum in their 'white people' part of the course

>>8952596
The only notable asian/oriental philosophers are confucius and buddha, whom both had their works expanded upon by western Transcendentalists anyways. These people just want to regress to an era of racially segregated thought.

>>8952588
Your choice to participate is in your registration and attendance of the course, not in editorializing the curriculum.

>>8952569
fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

>>8952569
rawling

cmon op, everyone knows that higher education is fuckin laughable bullshit.

>>8952611
>Believing in the progress meme

back to plebbit

>>8952626
You want to reread my post buddy? You seem confused

>>8952611
You're just uneducated on eastern philosophy mate

>These people just want to regress to an era of racially segregated thought.

You're also a good goy

>>8952569
roll

>>8952633
...

>>8952632
Name some eastern/oriental philosophers who can supplant Plato and Descartes, and whose ideas were not substantially advanced by the Transcendentalists, then. I won't pretend to be the best educated on the subject and I'd love to hear some valid arguments.

And keep calling me the goy while you fall for 'progressive' marxism

>>8952640
nisio isin

>>8952640
>Name some eastern/oriental philosophers who can supplant Plato and Descartes, and whose ideas were not substantially advanced by the Transcendentalists, then.

Why should I? You've just moved the goalposts.

"The only notable asian/oriental philosophers are confucius and buddha" is what I disagree with.

>And keep calling me the goy while you fall for 'progressive' marxism

I called you a goy because you had the reaction that the media jews want you to have. You fell for their sensationalised bollocks. A School of Oriental and Asian Studies wants less whites and more Orientals and Asians, it's not a big deal.

>>8952569

>>8952656
tepkuk

>>8952660
It's a huge deal if you see how whites are being genocided

>>8952660
>You've just moved the goalposts.
Not at all, I'm asking you to provide examples of notable Eastern/Oriental philosophers that would better serve this course.

>it's not a big deal
Precisely my point - and yet these academic ideologues are trying to use it as leverage for race bait

>>8952567
>Academia pushes for this you retard

>>8952669
>Not at all, I'm asking you to provide examples of notable Eastern/Oriental philosophers that would better serve this course.

You didn't you added extra shit that would allow you to go "ah, well the transcendentalists ____ gotcha"

Anyway, I'll give a few examples of notable eastern philosophers going with "worthy of attention or notice" as the definition of notable.

Al-Ghazali
Avicenna
Akṣapāda Gautama
Chanakya
Laozi
Zhuang Zhou

>these academic ideologues are trying to use it as leverage for race bait

They are not, the media are. The media knew they could twist it into a "political correctness gone mad/reverse racism" story with good success, so they did.

>>8952596
The School of Oriental and Asian Studies shouldn't even be a thing. Go to Asia if you want to learn about Asia.

>>8952664
honestly, kill yourself

>>8952696

>The media knew they could twist it into a "political correctness gone mad/reverse racism" story

No twisting required.

>>8952567
Well the only one I agree with dropping is Descartes.

>Sir Roger Scruton, the philosopher, said the demands suggest “ignorance.” “You can’t rule out a whole area of intellectual endeavour without having investigated it, and clearly they haven’t investigated what they mean by white philosophy,” he told The Mail on Sunday.

>“If they think there is a colonial context from which Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason arose, I would like to hear it.’
Blown the fuck out

>>8952696
You seem to be ignoring the media tendency to support legitimate race bait/reverse racism stories. This specific article may be misrepresentative, but as a trend the misrepresentation tends to go the other way.

>>8952696
Nope. It's quite obvious what their agenda is when they talk about "decolonizing" and "confronting the white institution".

This is the West. All students should be at least somewhat educated in the basis of our culture before going off and learning about others.

>>8952567
Source? Seems like 95% of these stories turn out to be complete bullshit.

>>8952714
It's not political correctness gone mad or racism you dip.

If you signed up to the School of European Philosophy, and the majority of philosophers studied were Chinese, you'd want to the curriculum changed so there's less Chinese and more European.

>>8952725
It generally depends on what paper you read. The Guardian, Huff Post, Salon etc support it; Daily Mail, the Sun, Daily Express are against.

>>8952732
They're not trying to race bait in this example though. Its the media who have reported on this and spun it/sensationalised it. To see it in another perspective, look back to the election; whatever Trump would say, the media would spin it in such a way to create outrage as outrage spreads news and the media wants their news read + plus they have special interests depending on who owns them (for example most Murdoch owned papers spin things to support his right wing beliefs whereas you see the opposite with other papers)

>>8952769
>If you signed up to the School of European Philosophy, and the majority of philosophers studied were Chinese, you'd want to the curriculum changed so there's less Chinese and more European.
Except we live in the West. Why shouldn't they have an understanding of Western philosophy before studying foreign philosophy? Does it hurt them?

And it's obvious that they are against it for race reasons.

Both Plato and Aristotle are basically required reading for understanding near eastern philosophy though. Islam leans as heavily on them as Christianity does.

>>8952791
Just as well nobody's actually demanding that they be dropped, then.

>>8952800
oh yeah they're trying to erase whiteness from universities all over the world. There'll be no white thought left in 5 years

>>8952570
Yes, all students should be required to watch Neon Genesis Evangelion because I said so.

>>8952800
They're not, they just want the majority of philosophers learnt to be from Asia or Africa.

"The School of Oriental and African Studies (SOAS)’s student union is insisting that when studying philosophy, “the majority of philosophers on our courses” should be from Africa and Asia."

I'm pretty sure SOAS barely has a philosophy department anyway- they're more into religion. They offer a single BA course in 'world philosophies'.

But let's all get mad anyway, right?

>>8952817
Except that most of these (post-colonial at least) were western educated and their ideas draw from Kant, Plato etc., so not learning about them makes understanding following philosophers more difficult

>>8952809
We should celebrate art made by persons of color, yes.

>>8952826
They aren't "not learning" about them though, they're just asking for the majority to be asian/african.

Anyway it's just a suggestion from the student union, it may not even be accepted.

>>8952826
>not learning about them
Oh, there's that thing that nobody's demanding again.

>>8952836
The phrase is actually 'global south', so it includes Latin America too.

>>8952567
Retarded.

The only need for University is accreditation but accreditation is meaningless if you don't have a normal program that focuses on a distinct array of skills / specialization.

Otherwise just fucking stay at home and learn it yourself. YOU are the student, YOU don't know what is best or most relevant for each field of study.

>No white philosophers
Seriously, I can only think of a single non-white philosopher: Buddha, or at least Buddhist thinkers.

Are there are relevant black philosophers?

>>8952889
Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Hotep, King Tut, Yakub...

>>8952889
> I can only think of a single non-white philosopher
That's a reflection of your lack of knowledge more than anything though.

Also
>uncritically believing obviously sensationalist news

>>8952907
You didn't name any notable black philosophers yourself, and if you actually read the post you replied to you'd understand that anon isn't saying there are not any oriental philosophers, but that they are all simply regurgitating Buddha, another point you've failed to overturn.

>SOAS
SOAS is regarded as a joke even among London academia
It went to fuck long ago and many graduates from there only ever say "dont go" if you ask them about it

>>8953089
not him btw

>but that they are all simply regurgitating Buddha

How is Avicenna regurgitating Buddha?

How is Laozi regurgitating Buddha?

>>8952720
>“If they think there is a colonial context from which Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason arose, I would like to hear it.’
What does that mean exactly? Colonial context?

>>8952889
>>8952696
I don't even study philosophy and I thought of multiple oriental philosophers that aren't Buddha or Confucius.

Ibn Khaldun
Saadi
Averroes

>>8952567
This whole article is fucking stupid and dishonest.

'Students' means the student union of some minor school of Oriental and African Studies so basically three college kids are suggesting this idea.

>It comes after education leaders warned ...
So a handful of students completely unrepresentative of the larger student body suggested something chronologically after some other unrelated event happened? Fantastic news!

>Under proposed reforms to higher education, the government wants to place student satisfaction at the heart of a new ranking system

Yeah meaning they want to address the general feeling students have that higher education doesn't care about them at all except for their money.

>"There is a real danger political correctness is getting out of control. We need to understand the world as it was and not to rewrite history as some might like it to have been."

>It says that “white philosophers” should be studied only “if required,” adding that their work should be taught solely from a “critical standpoint.” “For example, acknowledging the colonial context in which so-called ‘Enlightenment’ philosophers wrote within,” it says.

Funny how ignoring the colonial context of Enlightenment thinkers is not considered 'political correctness' and is considered understanding the world as it was. It really should be the opposite.

This isn't news and it isn't /lit/

>>8952889
They didn't say 'no white philosophers' you illiterate simp.

>>8953138
That it was a product of or used to justify colonialism in some way.

>>8952830
Jesus christ this sentence
What are you doing on this board
You sound cult-like, you are not using your own words. Like a mass of people instead of an individual.

>>8952769
>"We don't want to have certain dead writers on our curriculum because of their skin color and ethnicity"
>not racism

mhm, yea... tell me more

>>8953249
They haven't even said that you imbecile. They just said they want the majority to be oriental or african as they are studying in the school of oriental and african studies

Everyone read these posts then /thread:
>>8952821
>>8953177

Or.. be manipulated by clickbait if you really want to..

Look at the quality of the argument being put forward, albeit in academic-speak, and how respectful it is.

Then turn your eyes to the bizarre shit in the comments. Some shit about indoctrination (despite the quality of the argument and the welcoming of open and honest discourse), straight unequivocal racism, complete misreadings of the argument and the article, calls for censorship in response to censorship.

Some self-awareness wouldn't go amiss.

>>8953263
So in other words, they want to be less educated.

That's funny. I didn't know there was such thing as a non-white philosopher.

>>8953300
epic burn dude

>>8953300
Less educated... about Oriental or African texts?

>>8953177
>not realizing these students are the next generation's professors/teachers
>not realizing it's only downhill from here

>>8953314
lmao I triggered you haha

>>8952830
>>8953227

I feel like the term "All other persons" would have been more appropriate here.

>>8953319
No they're not going to hire teenagers to educate others.

>>8953299
The immense amount of power academia holds makes their every action inherently violent no matter how they present themselves.

No matter how angry the response may be, it can never be as violent as something that comes from or takes place in an academic institution.

>>8953320
Haha I got triggered.

>>8953314
>Live in the West
>Want to be educated in philosophy from the Orient
>99% of it is rehashed Aristotle through the lens of a Muslim

Wow! It's almost as if they should've just read Aristotle instead...

>>8953319
This
It's a snowball of indoctrination

>>8953337
Am I supposed to respond to this seriously or are you done?

>>8953344
To say nothing of this generation's journalists? They're the ones trying to convince you that leftist Academia is evil, so much that you overlook the evidence in the article that suggests otherwise.

>>8953354
I was already convinced leftist Academia is evil

>>8953348
Of course I'm serious. The whole notion of a "Oriental and African studies" is ridiculous to begin with.

Classical Mythology Too Triggering for Columbia Students

http://reason.com/blog/2015/05/12/trigger-warning-mythology

>In Columbia University's student newspaper, four members of the school's student Multicultural Affairs Advisory Board call on professors to be more sensitive when teaching provocative or controversial material... such as the Roman classical poet Ovid.

>Zeus' daughter Persephone (aka Prosperina), for instance, is kidnapped, raped, and taken as a bride by Hades, king of the underworld. The op-ed writers suggest this ancient Greek and Roman myth is too triggering to be taught in today's classroom.

What a time to be alive

>>8953337
I remember the days when plebs like you were SHAMED

>>8953358
Then how do these two excerpts fit with your view:

>The vice-chancellor of Buckingham University, Sir Anthony Seldon, added: “There is a real danger political correctness is getting out of control. We need to understand the world as it was and not to rewrite history as some might like it to have been.”

>The head of SOAS’s Religions and Philosophies department, Erica Hunter, said the union’s viewpoint was “rather ridiculous,” adding: “I would firmly resist dropping philosophers or historians just because it was fashionable.”

>>8953363
Oh well in that case I have no idea why you're limiting the scope of the argument.

Actually I'm being disingenuous -- I know why you're doing it.

>>8953385
Okay let me rephrase
I am convinced the parts of academia that pursue letist identity politics and teach students to think this way are evil

>>8953385
Because their work put that view in the heads of the students. This happens all the time. Professors freak out when the application of their ideas becomes inconvenient to them, and it's always hilarious. they're evil because they caused this to occur in the first place.

>>8953395
I mean, why should it stop there?

We should have a Bachelor's degree at all universities devoted to the study of one bee colony, that way you'll be sure to have removed all the colonization.

>>8953372
when i was in college only a few years ago a lecturer made a quip about sexual reassignment surgery and transpeople during her discussion on ovid. i skipped that reading so i missed the context of her quip but there was no outrage.

>>8953407
Calls for decolonisation aren't really about identity politics though.

Also the 'students' aren't teaching anyone. This is just a (reasonable) 'demand' from the student union of a single school, which could be as low as a whole two students in total.

>>8953412
I'm not sure what this has to do with either my or your argument

>>8953372
Oh my God those four students are going to destroy the world!

>>8953422
>Calls for decolonisation aren't really about identity politics though.
Yes it is you brainwashed limp-wristed nu-male cuck. "Decolonization" is a leftist meme.

>>8953433
We should never underestimate the capacity for this sort of thing to spread. The fact that those students weren't immediately expelled means that this world (or at least anything good and worthwhile in it) may as well already be destroyed.

>>8953433
>what is the slippery slope
Good goy! If you ignore it, it will go away!

>>8953437
No it isn't. Identity politics is for liberals helping minorities that they view as secret liberals waiting to get out and join in on capitalism, decolonisation is a radical leftist thing.

>inb4 but liberals are leftist!!!!!

>>8953443
Decolonization is an SJW thing. It doesn't matter how anal you get over left vs liberal, it's really only a matter of degree.

>>8953441
That's probably true actually, if there were no demand for these stories where four out of 31,000+ students supposedly represent all of academia then they wouldn't get published, thus wouldn't get publicity.

What a world we live in when fallacies matter more in an argument than logic.

>>8953443
What both of them have in common is that they essentially fight against white male oppression
So that's how it is identity politics.

>>8953451
No, SJWs are about markets. Decolonisation isn't.

>>8953458
shut the fuck up you limp wrist nu-male cuck

>>8953453
What? It's a thing that happened, why do you not want it to be reported? Being apathetic doesn't make you intelligent.
>>8953458
Nope, not at all. Go to leftypol if you want to pretend like SJWs aren't also edgy anti-capitalists.

>>8953455
No, liberals just want to participate in that oppression. With decolonisation it's not identity that matters but the system.

>>8953465
If we had news stories for every time four students agreed on something there would be a lot more news stories about Columbia.

>Nope, not at all.

Good argument.

>>8953472
If the decolonisation must take place on a cultural level it becomes identity politics no

>>8953472
>liberals want to participate in that oppression
Commie fags are so deluded

>>8953465
>What? It's a thing that happened

Do you think it would be fair pick out a post from /pol/ saying "niggers are dumb" then make an article saying "ALT-RIGHT MEMBERS GO ONTO CHILD PORNOGRAPHY SITES TO DISCUSS THEIR RACIST VIEWS"

>>8953480
How? Identity only matters when you want quotas, i.e. different coloured people operating the same systems of oppression. To decolonisers it doesn't matter if you're white, black, brown, male, female, other. What matters is that you oppose the very system that oppresses, even if the people who run it are the same colour as you.

Identity politics is inadequate.

>>8953458
Yes it is. They care about decolonizing spaces and minds just like leftists do. They also believe a type of decolonization that will allow the former colonies to participate in the global marketplace on their own terms. Theirs may not be as radical as some communist's take on it, but they certainly believe in it.

>>8953472
>With decolonisation it's not identity that matters but the system.
"SJWs" (I really hate the term) are obsessed with the various systems of oppression. I know Marxists and more radical leftists tend to be embarrassed by them, but you are related.

>>8953495
Columbia is an institution that in part exists to groom the elite. Everything that happens there is important.

>>8953502
>They also believe a type of decolonization that will allow the former colonies to participate in the global marketplace on their own terms

That's neo-liberalism, far from decolonisation.

>are obsessed with the various systems of oppression

But the means of addressing them are far different. SJWs believe in reform or, as I previously said, that all minorities are trapped white liberals waiting to be freed and participate in the system. That's where they are not similar.

>>8952596

The demands are coming from students in the School of African and Oriental Studies, but they're calling for a global moratorium on teaching these philosophers.

I'm utterly bewildered why any /pol/itician wouldn't support this, Academia cannibalizing itself is the best possible outcome.

>>8953523
Their argument still allows for these philosophers to be taught. It's not as explicit as "no white philosophers, ever"

>>8953525
Yes exactly what we need is more inability to comprehend arguments. We don't need academia, just a giant comments section to teach the world. That will ensure all the white philsophers are taught, since philosophy is so well-loved by the average person.

>>8952791
>mfw multicultural studies is a justification for studying the classics of western culture
people don't know that cultural theory has its founding in Herodotus and Polybius

>>8953539
It doesn't matter which side of the political compass your on It's objective fact university is a breeding ground for left-wing politics.

People don't cry for the academics China buried during the cultural revolution for a reason.

>>8953568
I mean aside from the point that it's not some brainwashing factory just because courses now acknowledge the role of race and gender in history (which, objectively, have existed), it doesn't mean the answer is to have academia cannibalise itself. I'd rather have an institution that at least made overtures to teaching critical and creative thinking than watch interpersonal discussion turn to normie Reddit like a comments section, where the quality of an argument is decided by old idiots 'liking' who can say the appropriate meme the fastest.

>>8953531

'Only if required' is the language the students use. That is incredibly vague, and opens up the possibility of completely removing these philosophers from the curriculum if it's judged that they are not 'required'--and when has philosophy, generally, ever been 'required'?--and that is exactly the assessment this group is pushing.

>>8953605
>because courses now acknowledge the role of race and gender in history
That's a fucking understatement.

>>8953521
>That's neo-liberalism, far from decolonisation.
It is when they want major powers to genuine economic Independence for these countries.

>But the means of addressing them are far different. SJWs believe in reform or, as I previously said, that all minorities are trapped white liberals waiting to be freed and participate in the system. That's where they are not similar.
Just because they apply critical methods to systems of race and gender more frequently doesn't mean that they don't care about class or economic issues. They're very quick to point out the class components of race and gender, and very few would claim that our economic system go on unchanged.

>>8953539
>We don't need academia, just a giant comments section to teach the world. That will ensure all the white philsophers are taught, since philosophy is so well-loved by the average person.
It might be a good way to restart the discourse. If we're lucky it will allow us to remove Foucault, Butler, Derrida, etc. from the discourse.

>>8953607
>That is incredibly vague

It's as vague as the law.

>if it's judged that they are not 'required'

Yes, if. But since when has the merits of philosophy been its unquestionable acceptance based on appeals to tradition or fear of slippery slope fallacy?

>when has philosophy, generally, ever been 'required'?

They're talking about their own philosophy courses. There would obviously be some required reading in philosophy.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?404124-1/reading-lists-college-freshmen
>Reading Lists for College Freshmen David Randall presented his report, Beach Books, on which books colleges assign to their incoming freshman classes to read prior to their first day.

>>8953620
Not in my experience. But I'm not American so maybe it's different. It could also be an overstatement to call them breeding grounds of leftist politics, especially when a substantial portion of the students go to learn business or accounting.

>>8952567
>students think they should decide what's in the curriculum
>colleges basing what they teach on the author's race so as not to be racist
>"Well. we would teach Plato's work but he's white"
>Implying the Greeks were white
I hate academia.

>>8953628
Yes the concerns are the same, but like I said the difference lies in the approach.

>If we're lucky it will allow us to remove Foucault, Butler, Derrida, etc. from the discourse.

Because they're white?

>>8953643
>Because they're white?
Because their work and its influence harmful to a the majority of people living in the western world.

>>8953658
How do you figure?

>>8953184
It absolutely was. This is undeniable. There is a substantial history to enlightenment philosophy justifying a "taming of savages." It did not directly inform the average foot soldier, however it did inform the academia and political structure that set the colonial mission into progress.

Being Philosophy though, it is conceptual and can be reapplied again in different ways. There are also plenty of fringe philosophers of Europe that do not deserve a blanket condemnation. Spinoza, for instance. Especially considering that to Europe in the 17th century Spinoza was not "white," he was jew.

>>8953658
Indeed, and in 2012 many people believed the world was coming to an end.

>>8953630

>It's as vague a the law

We're talking about curricular policy, not the law.

>But since when has the merits of philosophy been its unquestionable acceptance based on appeals to tradition or fear of slippery slope fallacy?

Never claimed it was. The problem, as I see it, is excluding certain works based on the racial category of the creators of those works. Whiteness here is being IDENTIFIED (triple horizontal bars) with colonialism and oppression, which has nothing to do with the merits of the works, their actual content, nor their context in the ever-ongoing conversation of philosophy.

>>8953636
>especially when a substantial portion of the students go to learn business or accounting.
You should look at the surprising politics of dentists.

Something like 80% practising dentists are republican but 90%+ of dentistry professors are democrat.

So no I wouldn't call it a overstatement.

>>8953177
thread should have ended here.

>>8953667
>We're talking about curricular policy, not the law.

I know, I'm saying the words are as vague as the law. There is still space for argument.

>excluding certain works based on the racial category of the creators of those works.

They haven't been excluded though.

>Whiteness here is being IDENTIFIED

A very smooth equivocational fallacy.

>>8953662
They lead others to wage a campaign to deconstruct their existence so that those with opposing interests will have an easier time succeeding.

>>8953666
and while that was happening academic institutions and activists alike were using the work of these authors work to end the world of the west's citizens.

>>8953669
What exactly is the problem? You don't like Democrats? Neither do leftists.

>>8953694

I hate this game, I'm not playing it with (you).

>>8953700
You're slipping into self-parody now.

If you're so scared that white people are going to fail, maybe they weren't superior after all?

>>8953711
>11
Checked for your troubles.

>>8953721
>If you're so scared that white people are going to fail, maybe they weren't superior after all?
I've never believed they were. I care about maintaining a desirable existence. The supposed superiority and inferiority of peoples means nothing to me.

>>8953721
Not everybody worried about the direction the west is heading in is a white supremacist/nationalist.

>>8952595
LeVar Burton, obviously.

I genuinly don't know a single African philosopher other than few "philosophical" novelists from colonial French Negritude movement, but scope of their commentary is limited to narrow aspects of political philosophy.

In case of Oriental philosophy there are few genuine philosophers among Indians and late Buddhist schools plus few Chinese political philosophers, especially in area of law. That being said, most of Eastern "philosophy" (and I'm not talking about fortune cookie pseudophilosophy), but most of what passes for real Eastern philosophy isn't philosophy in the rigorous definition of the term. It's very elaborate onto-theology, however often lacking in logical justification of claims and invoking either theological premises or pure sophism as a ground for arguments validity.

Now, for little comic relief I wonder how students mentioned in the article would react if they ever actually read Kant and stumbled upon this gem:

>The Negroes of Africa have not received any intelligence from Nature that rises above foolishness. Mr. Hume challenges anyone to suggest even one example of a negro who has displayed any talent. As he himself verifies, among the hundreds of thousands of blacks who have wandered far away from their homelands, even though many of them have been liberated, not one exists who has succeeded in anything great, either in the arts or the sciences or in any other noteworthy thing. On the contrary, among the whites, people continuously rise above the low point that they were and they evolve through their superior qualifications, attaining worldly fame. The difference therefore between the two races is an essential one: It appears to be equally big, both with regard to the capabilities of the mind, as well as to the color.

getting rid of plato is the objectively most horrible thing you could do to a curriculum

such a disservice

>>8953746
Plontius was technically born in Africa (hellenic egypt), so were a bunch of other early Christian theologians (All egyptian lol). That's about it.

>>8953638
The Greeks who did math and philosophy were white, but the Greeks who fucked kids were Arabs

>>8953746
>>8953772

Ah yes, also St. Augustine was African of Berber descent I believe from modern day Algeria. Though, let's not kid ourselves, it's basically an open secret these students demand "philosophers" of rather ethnic than geographical subscription of what's understood as "African" today.