/lit/ - Literature

110 percent

>>8933492
Beethoven was better than Mozart.
I dunno the film guy.
While Joyce did make humanity's masterpiece, literature still could go through quite a few more innovations, and it has. Potentially DFW ends up becoming the author that delivers the last new ideas and models to literature. Hopefully not. I really, really hope not.
Wittgenstein does finish all language related philosophy, but I wouldn't quite say the whole field.

>>8933508
>I dunno the film guy.

Stopping reading right there.

>Wittgenstein finished literature
I wish this meme ended already

>>8933517
film isn't art so who actually cares

>>8933534
You've already established yourself as a pleb, please refrain from posting

>>8933532
>>Wittgenstein finished literature

Where does it say that?

>>8933534
>film isn't art so who actually cares

Stopped reading right there.

>>8933536
>8933508 here
>>8933534
This wasn't me samefagging, you should've seen the poster counter you autistic fuck.

>>8933492
So true that you have ended the game in the field of shitposting.

>>8933538
Fuck I accidentally the whole sentence

>>8933543
You've already established yourself as a pleb, please refrain from posting

>>8933492
>Nabokov
>Zizek
>Debussy
>Kubrick

No

bach ended classical before it started

>>8933565
Probably tru tbqh

>>8933561
>Zizek
Negro please

>>8933492
>White Men

Fixed it for u

>>8933492
Now we are talking.

>>8933561
>>Nabokov
Good but didn't end the game.

>>Zizek
In no way monumental.

>>Debussy
Good but didn't end the game.

>>Kubrick
Good but didn't end the game.

>>8933586
That's not a man, retard.

>>8933492
>>8933508

plebs on /lit/, who would say?

>>8933536
>watching some dudes pretending to be other person talking about random gay shit for 2 hours
>Wow such artsy wow i love pictures xD
Fuck. Off.

>>8933596
wtf I hate cinema now

>>8933582
if you keep to his podcasts then you know zizy is high quality h2o

>>8933587
It wasn't really a rebuttal to who I thought ended the game, so much as people who disprove endgame
jj did good
wit is autismo
Wolfy was pure ideology
And terry? compared to Ford or Kubrick he's a fingerpaint

>>8933508
>Beethoven was better than Mozart
Top plen

>>8933538
>>8933552
Bro, that's the whole sentence! You fucked up! You fucked up big!

>>8933492
>Wittgenstein is the final boss of philosophy
>implying it isn't Heidegger

who is the movie guy?

>>8933492
I'm a pleb
Who is film guy?

>>8933587
Debussy popularised the trend of eschewing tonality that led to serialism and similar degenerative movements in the 20th century, from which we've never really recovered. If any one figure can be said to have "killed" music, it's him.

>>8933635
>>8933636
Rob Reiner, you uncultured toilet

>>8933492
Okay I'll give you my thoughts on it

>Literature
Joyce is fine with me. I don't think anyone else has been so confidently experimental or more influential in the modern era than Joyce. If I had to pick someone over him it would be Shakespeare.

>Philosophy
If we should include the Greeks, I have to say Aristotle, but if we're only looking modern era, I'd go Nietzsche and not like the /pol/ version of Nietzsche, the real one that isn't a Nazi or white supremacist.

>Music
Uh... My personal favorite is Can but if we're doing all time greatest, I'd say Bach.

>Film
This is my wheelhouse and I'll say Bergman. I think he's probably the greatest director to live. Resnais is the greatest editor.

>>8933636
Terrance Malik

>>8933508
Mediocre bait

>>8933626
It doesn't matter because Bach is better than either of them.

>>8933656
yeah, right, because we are on /tv/, right?

fuck off

>>8933717
Screenplays are literature.

>>8933492
Scorsese > all

Should be Schoenberg for music. Tarantino did it for films but not in a good way.

Replace Malick with Tarkovsky.

>>8933717
Idk what's going on in this exchange but it seems like you might actually think that's rob reiner and it's not, it's terry malick

>>8933752
I think the Literature and Philosophy ones are concrete but Music and Film is too shaky.

>choosing ONE great person in each form of media
>thinking this isn't the biggest pleb thing to ever do in regards to art

you people are disgusting

>>8933725
>screenplays are films

>>8933763
I mean film as an artform is not even a century and a half old.
It's just ridiculous to talk about the "endgame" of film at this stage

>>8933771
>he thinks multiple people can be right in philosophy

>>8933492
replace film with Kurosawa

>>8933806
Though this is obvious bait, Wittgenstein pretty much ended discussion philosophy of language in the same way that Hume ended discussion of induction (inb4 Kantians disagree)

>>8933534
>film isn't art
Gaseth thine self

>>8933806
>he thinks they can't

oh boy

>>8933825
>>8933831
>one guy makes a claim
>one guy makes a different claim
>both can be right

What's it like being retarded?

>>8933839
xd gud one

>>8933492
It's totally true. Now you can just berry your head in the sand and rest assured that you'll never have to think about anything ever again.

>>8933828
>>>r/books

why is film represented and painting or photography not? Film is not nearly as important as those two, you may as well replace philosophy with television and literature with performance art. Also, very few impactful artists read Joyce. Kafka probably shaped more writers, even if he is less obscurantist. Borges and dozens of others admit to never having read a sizable portion of his works, yet every writer, no matter how advanced, has a huge affinity for Kafka.

>>8933839
you tell me

>>8933492
Literature: fairly true
Philosophy: somewhat true
Music and Film: absolutely not

>>8933681
Thank you for being helpful by naming Malik (something sorely missing on /lit/), but my opinion is that I think your opinions are shit. :)

>>8933681
this is a proper response, I agree with everything you've said.

>>8933492

Hegel should be there. Quietism isn't "ending the game," it's giving up on it.

>>8933979
>it's giving up on it.

No, it's realising there was no game in the first place.

>>8933979
giving up the game is still playing the game

you can't leave the game, the game of philosophy is always being played

>>8934009
>>8934017

what neither of you have seen but what the latter has a better chance of grasping once i exposit it, is that hegel revealed philosophy as a game in the first place.

Hegel was just reinterpreted Taoist/Zen doctrine. Hardly anything revolutionary.

>>8934036
I've read a lot of dumb shit on /lit/ today but this may just be the dumbest one of them all

>>8933517
I haven't seen a film since 2013, literature is much better

>>8933681
>I'd go Nietzsche and not like the /pol/ version of Nietzsche, the real one that isn't a Nazi or white supremacist.

Why not Stirner ?

>>8934066
Because Nietzsche actually had something interesting and unique to say, which was not related to politics at all

>>8934036

>this is your brain on /pol/

>>8933586
Change it to Gaben and you might be on to something.

>>8934076
>Because Nietzsche actually had something interesting and unique to say,

How was Stirner not unique (memes aside)? likewise just because his ethics have political elements doesn't discount it.

>>8933586
The last time I played dota 2 I thought it was really boring and I did something else with my day

Overall bad taste in vidya

>>8933561
>Kubrick

Wew lass

>>8934032
You don't understand Wittgenstein.

Fuck off.

>>8933641
LIKE A BOSS

>>8933681
Good post, but I don't think it really responds to the image. It isn't supposed to be necessarily the best, but the one who "finished" the genre.

>>8933492
is the film guy Rob Reiner? I can't tell

>>8933681
Agreed on every point except director. Bergman is top tier but David Lean is somebody who is able to evoke those without conjuring Beckett. Way above him, as I mentioned before, is Kubrick and Ford, maybe even Chaplin. But over all you seem like a very pleasant with good taste- salude comrade, blut und boden!

>>8933771
>Not being an elitist 2017

>>8934273
stifle it meathead

>>8933561
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Zizek
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Debussy

>>8933806
>dialectics
>not even once

>>8933492
>Mozart
it was Strauss you philistines
And Bach was the peak of western music

>>8933641
that was Wagner, Debussy is product of him

>>8934277
I like Lean. I think Lawrence of Arabia might be the best paced film of all time.

I still think Bergman is the superior director however. Persona, shame, Autumn Sonata and Fanny and Alexander are simply amazing and he deserves a large degree of credit for the inspiration of the french new wave with Summer with Monika.

>>8933492
None of them ending anything.

No one finished the game in Film
It has barely even started

The best play so far has been from Tarkovsky, Bergman and Kubrick. Respectively

>>8933681

>This is my wheelhouse and I'll say Bergman.

You know you're probably right. Anon are mentioning Tarkovsky but the more I think about it Bergman was a greater director.

Guys like Dreyer, Murnau and Eisenstein are up there but they were really proto-directors in comparison.

>>8934315
this

Granted I'm not as well versed on western cinema as you guys but I dont know what you all have against asian cinema

>>8934094
You probably lose it.

>>8933492
TO BE HONEST SENPAI

thread sages at (18:23) 1/5/17

PLEBS

THE LOT OF YOU

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS "ENDING" ANYTHING

YOU CAN ONLY OPEN NEW DOORS

>>8934330
>that dirty pair poster

>>8934344

these threads are just a springboard for general discussion you emotional new poster

>>8934361
YOU'RE BASING AN ENTIRE DISCUSSION ON A FALSITY

EVERYONE IN HERE IS NEW AND IF NOT ENTIRELY NEW, REDDIT TIER CRINGE

I BET YOU CALL DIRECTORS "AUTEURS"

>>8934328
>Tarkovsky, Bergman and Kubrick

lmao, pleb

>>8934372

i've been here since 2006. drop the emotion already you caps soapboxing wet blanket.

Caps lock dude is right.

>>8934403
NO YOU HAVEN'T

>>8934391
Your dad is a faggot and your mom is really your grandma and your dad is goat named wilmur

>>8934410

"okay?"

stop being a no fun zone try hard. it's faggot shit.

>>8934409
I can literally prove I have.

I have a piece of paper with the words "Hi /lit/" that I took a picture of and posted here in '06 and it's still there in the archives.

>>8934417
>>8934422

PATHETIC.

>>8934422

protip: you might have autism.

>>8934391
obscurity=/=being good

get that through your effete head

>>8934441
No one said that they were shit because they were well-known.

They are shit because they are shit!

Get it through your thick head!

They aren't actually shit, just not the best.

>>8934455
gib names then.
who's the best

>>8934415
holy...

>>8934467
Me.

>>8934493
I thought you were dead

>>8933641
>the trend of eschewing tonality that led to serialism and similar degenerative movements in the 20th century
Many modernist composers saw what they were doing as extending tonality rather than eschewing it. Stravinsky or Ives or even Schoenberg would scoff at the term "atonality" itself, especially when used in relation to their music, because it's barely an accurate descriptor. Any small melodic segment of even a serialist piece can be heard as "tonal", even if the composer did not intend for it. I personally think Schoenberg's fixation on serialism as a method was pretty autistic, even if it was his creation. Really he should have played around with it for a short while, realized its lack of interesting harmonic potential (like Rochberg did), and then went on to something else. I still wouldn't call it atonal though, as it's very difficult to make atonal music unless you compose in a temperament other than 12

>>8934505
it was not atonal technically, but for all intents and purposes, when you make music that has no melodic or harmonic content, the abstraction of tone becomes so large as to turn effectively atonal

microtonal and polychromatic music is nowadays something that expands tonality and is actually capable of neat and complex harmonics
Schoenberg in his autism never acomplished that

>>8933641
>>8934505

both of you sound like bad musicians

why is it always the critics who have so much lingo to the world of the wordless. srsly, stop with your mumbo jumbo. maybe around your faggot ass friends you sound like a closet queer (which your friends all participate in), but objectively you just sound like an overall shitty bot

>>8934330
I love Tarkovsky. I mean absolutely love his work. He does offer many things that Bergman doesn't but he's more a visual poet than a director.

Bergman has that workman's attitude merged with an experimental verve and the mind of a philosopher.

70s era Coppola is close but with only 4 films that I consider great I can't in good conscience say him. Teshigahara was very very good as well but never made enough films to develop himself.

Bergman is simply everything any director can aspire to (at least everything I aspire to).

>>8934542
I agree with you on all counts actually, microtonal music is an interest of mine
>>8934545
I don't have friends