/lit/ - Literature

Everyone on this board seems to think they need to read the western canon before they can so much eat a sandwich

>>8906492
honestly i've found it easier to use film as an introduction to literature/philosophy. supplementary materials that allow you to visualize ideas sometimes will allow the language to manifest itself more clearly earlier on.

for example, terrence malick's films really allowed me to get into heidegger

>>8906754
And they're correct

>>8906754

This. I would bet good money the fuck who made this movie sure as shit didn't start with the greeks

>>8906754
>eating a sandwich
>not starting with hunting gathering

>>8906754

>"start with the greeks"
>being influenced by a nation and its ideals that FAILED

I've seen this film and I think that worrying about its intertexual relations (which might not extend beyond the title and the opening text in which the title is explained) would only be detrimental to your appreciation of it. It's very much its own thing and it's best viewed as such. It deals with human themes and not "Nietzschean" themes. Just go ahead and watch it, no homework is required, only some patience.

>>8906789
he started with krasznahorkai

honestly you're better off familiarising yourself with krasznahorkai's work seeing as how he's the guy who wrote it, and also because he's a fucking good author you should read

>>8906492
its literally peasants doing nothing and eating potatoes for 95% of the movie and then this weirdo fat ass comes in and talks about nietzsche and the horse

>>8906492

It doesn't really touch upon Nietzsche in a thematic way. It's more derivative of Beckett and the myth of Sisyphus.

That said, this is by far the most pretentious movie I have ever seen. It is excruciatingly boring and bleak beyond imagination. It will likely leave you with a hollow sense of futility.

>>8907701

>riding with horse
>getting dressed
>cooking potatoes
>eating potatoes
>fetching water
>trying to get horse to walk
>drinking palinka
>chopping wood
>washing clothes
>repeat until death

This is an accurate 1:1 summary of the entire movie.

By a rule of thumb, non-experimental film is too immediate a medium to need to prepare for. I'd advise just watching the movie, then going to read something by Nietzsche, then coming back to the film in maybe six months time. Arguably the changes you find in viewing it for a second time will be more interesting to you than loading up on the correct pre-requisite material first time round.

Also consider watching Werckmeister Harmonies because that movie is dope.

>>8907721

Have you ever seen Sátantangó? Is it worth it? I read a bit about it, and some commentator opined that the establishing shot, which is ten minutes of cows scattering on a field, signifies the anomie in post-soviet Hungary.

That just sounds so fucking insufferable.

>>8907728
Book >>> Movie

>>8907728

>Have you ever seen Sátantangó? Is it worth it?

Haven't seen it.

That scene sounds pretty normal for Tarr.

Tarr is great and you don't need to have a
background in philosophy to get him.

>>8907715
Yes, and the Odyssey is about some guy trying to get home before he gets cucked. What is the point you are trying to make?

>>8907728
It is absolutely worth it. No shots in his films are gratuitous and none of them are insufferable. Try to understand what he is trying to do. Try to imagine yourself living in such an environment. It's desolate, but that's how some people perceive the world. It's not all that depressing, though. Tarr's films contain some really amazing soundtracks. They are also imbued with funny and heartfelt moments throughout. By avoiding this work of art you are basically committing a crime. You will be worse off, believe me. And those seven+ hours just fly by once you come to inhabit the world.

>>8906789
You'd probably be wrong.

>>8907728
satantango is honestly the greatest movie experience of my life

>>8906492
>Pasolini's Salo includes a bibliography and suggest reading list

but it's nothing but sexual sadism and perversion for 2 hours, topped off with torturous, ritual killing

>>8908171
tell me more films you like so i know what to avoid

people who cite satantango as one of their favorites are the ultimate pseuds

>>8908252
spirited away, my night with maud, mulholland drive, the flavour of green tea over rice

>>8909922
last two are good, you're trying to fuck with me by muddying the waters

>>8910121
are you implying that my night with maud is not good?

>>8908234
sounds like the greatest movie ever made desu

>>8906492

This is the greatest film ever created and there is nothing you can do about it.

>>8906492
cross-media intertextuality is postmodern

>>8906754
>implying you can fully appreciate a sandwich without reading the western canon
When did /lit/ get so plebby?

>>8906754
best post in months

>>8906492
>an autist triumph
Damn

>>8911173
And...?

Reminder that you don't know your Tarr unless you own the physical copies of all of his films from Autumn almanac onwards

>>8912015

>living in the UK
>being a UK

>>8912022
Ethän toki tarkoita minua?

>>8912015
my negro

>tfw I had to opportunity to watch all of Tarr's films in the cinema
>on film, not digital

>>8907715
Congratulations, now try do draw some parallels between the movie and your life and the human condition in general, maybe you are not too retarded and there is hope you can get something more out of a movie than the basic description of different scenes.

>>8912069
>tfw when you find out the local kino ran a Tarr retrospective in 2011 but you didn't know about it until now
>tfw you will probably never get the chance to see Satantango in cinema unless it's in honor of Tarr's eventual death

>>8912015
>watching translations

>>8912732
>what are subtitles

>>8906789
nah, he did actually

>>8906492
OP, just listen to>>8906989

>>8912015
don't be so plebian... his first film, Family Nest, is one of his best. Though I have the feeling you can only get Hungarian editions... never seen a UK or US version.

>>8906754
>the western canon
that's Ulysses, Gravity's Rainbow, and Infinite Jest, right?

>>8906492
Alfred Hitchcock's Rope deals with the ideas of Nietzsche and the superman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6JVQ7miq8U

>tfw there are no cinemas that air kinos here and you'll never see these works of art on the big screen

>>8916437
just buy an 70"+ 4k TV and sit like a foot away from it

>>8916712
surely you can be serious

Who is the Harold Bloom of cinema?

>>8916822
Pauline Kael

>>8916822
>roger ebert

>>8916822
Harry S. Plinkett

>>8916738
Oh man, I haven't seen Jags guy in years

This film feels a lot more literary than most literary films I hear talked about despite being far more cinematic than them. Marguerite Duras writing the script sure but it manages to provide great thematic depth without resorting to the elements of theater ala Bergman.

>>8916822
Jonathan ((((Rosenbaum))))

>>8906754
So much so to eat a so and so sandwhich with sandra Oh!

Where the fuck do I get a physical copy of the Werckmeister Harmonies for the US? I'd ask /tv/ but they just talk about capeshit

>>8906754
well, you do.

>>8906784
>>8911374

this

>>8918330
Amazon?

>>8918330
is that actually good? i downloaded it off a private torrent tracker like last year during the winter when it was cold as shit cuz supposedly its a cold themed movie or sth, but then i deleted it to make room for audiobooks, didn't watch, lol

>inb4 pleb witchhunt

>>8906789
Krasznahorkai studied the Classics in his undergraduate, I wish you could actually bet good money with me so I could make some $$

He's also the only novelist of the last 40 years who will be remembered in 5 years.

>>8918812
Krasznahorkai didn't direct the film.

>>8906754
>Western Gannon

Actually Gannon's background mimics that of the Eastern world.

>>8906828
>>8906754
>eat a sandwich
Start with the gyro.

>>8918803
Nope, they only have the UK-only version

>>8906754
>not starting with fruit, vegetables, nuts and meat

>>8906492
The most Nietzschean film is Stardust Memories by Woody Allen.

>>8919011
he wrote the screenplay retard

>>8916822
Ray Carney. Better scholar than reviewer

>>8919767
That doesn't count as "made the movie." Did Shakespeare make Orson Welles' Macbeth because they have the same script?

>>8906754

>just the western canon
>not being familiar with both the western and eastern canon before even thinking about eating a sandwich

>>8919783
They don't have the same script. Even though they take the dialogue the play itself does not give any film like information for the director to work with. If you read the actual script there would be descriptions of actions and the like.

>>8919783
even though bela tarr is autistic as fuck, his films are pretty collaborative with krasznahorkai. it's not like he just read his book and decided to adapt it, the two of them are pretty tight and work together on all of his films

>>8907728
>That just sounds so fucking insufferable.
How do you think Hungary was under Soviets

>>8920610
>b-but the russians liberated europe

>>8920616
Liberated Europe from Germans. Only to replace them.

>>8919755
Fellini is rolling in his grave

>>8919783
As Bela Tarr put it himself, there is no 'director' Tarr who makes these films
The 'director' Bela Tarr is a team of four people: Bela Tarr, Agnes Hranitzky, Mihaly Vig and Laszlo Krasznahorkai, who together have created the films, collaboratively, ever since Vig and Krasznahorkai joined the Hranitzky-Tarr team in Damnation

>>8919742
underrated

>>8920610
How do you think places were under Austro-Hungary?
>just desserts

David Cronenberg is one of the best directors for adapting literature.

>Naked Lunch
>Crash
>Cosmopolis

All amazing films.

Special mention also to PTA's adaption of Inherent Vice, better than the book, even if that isn't saying much.

>>8906828
Every civilization reaches an end you dumb nigger.

>>8906492
Just watch it, read afterwards if you're confused.

>>8917395

This is the only good answer.

>>8916822
Jonathan Rosenbaum

>>8916822
Mike and Jay.

>>8916822
Unironically Gene Siskel

>>8916822
Doug Walker

>>8916822
Manny Farber