/lit/ - Literature

I think Steve is a really great guy and a good author

>>8844105
Here is the reviewers’ choice books

>>8844105
I dropped The Long Way off my reading list because somebody on another site mentioned there's a character who basically exists to be mean to everybody, and the ship's captain does nothing about this or the other crew don't just give him a blanket party ("it's just a bad dream fatboy") for causing trouble, which really just breaks one's suspension of disbelief.

Good fantasy recommendation for my friend? He likes classics, the bronte sisters, anime, edge chronicles, and xenoblade chronicles.

>>8844214

Sandman
Breeks

>>8844217

Breeks? google isn't helping.

>>8844157
>trusting tor reviewers

Tor pushes out some pretty tumblr-tier shit. Not that they don't publish a lot of good books but I'll be fucked if I'm going to trust their reviewers not to be agenda driven. I read for funsies, not to be beaten over the head with gender politics.

>>8844227
Brent Weeks, though that anon is memeing you, he's shit.

>>8844265

Oh okay. I didn't recognize the name.

>>8844258
>being this triggered

>>8844265

He's not shit you're shit

>>8844258
I think you meant to say

>I only like politics in my books if they conform to my present worldview

>>8844120

Thanks

Orphans of Chaos worth a read?

Rec. some classic outer space sci-fi, thanks.

I'm now 10000 words in and I want to raze my story to the ground and re-make it from the ashes as a generic potterclone where instead of it being a school, it's a city full of hidden passages and speakeasies

>>8844265
I bet you jelly you never had tight pussy

>>8844710
So lev grossman but city big?

Ah storm it.

>>8844300
Zizek is a modern fantasy character, you can tell by how much he sniffs.

Any recommendations for someone who likes dark fantasy like Berserk and Dark Souls?

>>8844772
Suicide

>>8844772
>Dark Souls

https://twitter.com/PVBrett/status/809279810165948419

Sweet

>>8844792

Why don't you add Bakker to that

>>8844710
That's pretty normal for the 10,000 word mark. You'll get more out of it if you can actually finish it instead of restarting a dozen times.

6/10 Final verdict

Hard to rate this one, the beginning is really weak and the end is much stronger but it kind of felt like luck that it got better at the end because /something else/ happened about half a dozen times as though the author was just throwing things at the wall hoping some would stick.

The end result of a few of the characters is pretty satisfying, like the main villain turning out to be chaotic lawful instead of actually a bad person, and the main character himself might be interesting if he had any internal consistency.

Idn. Wouldn't recommend.

Besides, it has airships and I struggle with airships because I instinctively lump them with the much loathed steampunk even when the book isn't actually steampunk.

Just finished this. I enjoyed it but why does everyone act like it's so confusing? You can figure out what almost everything is just by context in which it's referenced.

>>8844816
Warrens were a bit confusing at first but that's it.

>>8844792
Has anyone ever answered that question? I've only ever seen it met by memes.

>>8844816
There's still a lot of stuff you have no clue about yet, but you have the right mindset for reading it which is to just take it as it comes and trust that things will be explained eventually. If you obsess too much over working out details in MBotF you'll never get very far because it takes several books before you have enough information to really piece the mythos together.

>>8844258
This. Tor isn't accepting novellas in their new contest or whatever that are based on European culture. Medieval/High fantasy is inherently white. If someone who isn't white wants to write about African wizards, then power to them, but banning Eurocentric fantasy is like hosting a white-only RnB festival

>>8844827
We literally answer Dying Earth and New Sun every single time. Feeling of loneliness and isolation in a vibrant, overgrown world where most of what's going on can't possibly be understood; New Sun additionally has a near-hopeless mission to reignite a fire source.

>>8844879
To be a devil's advocate, a lot of slush-pile writers use European fantasy as a crutch, and Imaro is pretty baller. That said, the best fantasy isn't world-built around African myths, it's world-built around the Angolan civil war and Rhodesian bush war.
Not that I know of any aside from what I'm writing

>>8844803
I went through my steampunk fetish phase, and I think the problem with the genre is that people completely forget that it's supposed to be retro science fiction. Instead of thinking of something new that asks questions, they regurgitate aesthetics that they will grow out of. The vast majority of Steampunk lacks originality

>>8844881
So the answer is that there really isn't anything like Dark Souls, then. Those thematic similarities aside, BotNS doesn't even have a slightly similar feel or aesthetic to it.

>>8844888
>Imaro is pretty baller
Isn't it just melanin-enriched Conan?

>>8844386
So what?

I'm not opposed to real world politics in my books up until they stop being entertaining and start being preachy. I would happily read a novel about a black disabled trans woman if her race/gender/physical abilities played no role in what was happening, but those kinds of characters tend to signal a certain kind of agenda that's just not fun to read about.

For fuck's sake I come from the generation that invented this shit and I am as tolerant as they come so why do I have to read books that are actively attempting to make me feel guilty about behaviours that I don't participate in.

>>8844893
>setting aside those things that are similar
>there isn't anything similar

>>8844896
Is that a problem?

>>8844900
Just sounds done desu.

>>8844899
Lots of works have broadly similar themes, but feel extremely different, therefore not necessarily appealing to a mutually inclusive audience. I can see why the memes took over.

>>8844888
I'm generally going to prefer European-style fantasy because it's the culture I'm familiar with, but I'd definitely give foreign fantasy a shot if it was well written. What I am absolutely not interested in is the kind of affirmative action that Tor is practicing.

Also, fantasy based on the Rhodesian bush war could be cool. What are you working on, Anon?

>>8844105
Any good Lovecraftian-like fantasy?

What are some good fantasy with lesbians doing lesbian things?

>>8844938
Robert E. Howard's work was also pretty racist. You might enjoy it.

>>8844879
S L A V F A N T A S Y
L
A
V
F
A
N
T
A
S
Y

>>8844105

I haven't checked but, are there any pagan inspired fantasy out there?

>inb4 witcher books

Anything else?

>>8844950
ooh, I like slav things, what's that?

>>8844954
->
>>8844950
Wolfhound

>>8844950
I read that as Slave fantasy. Some /lit/erate I am. Seriously, recommend me some good Slav fantasy, preferably stuff on audible

Any coming of age romance magic/fantasy recommendations?

Best English Jules Verne translations?

>>8844970
Very little of them got translated. And even even fewer are published published in english, Germany and Poland are more lucky. I suppose that's just because of you angloes are not very fond of publishing foreign literature. But those who are close to the request are Goodsdoom and Chasers of the Wind

>>8844816

Reminder that you just read the best book in the Malazan series.

>>8844950

As an Estonian I would really prefer if you never posted anything russian here ever again.
Thank you.

>>8845008
Who gave a word to a halfing?

>>8845008

>Estonians

>a people that think Madara is an acceptable girl name

>naming your daughters after Naruto villains

So what would happen if you Slicked yourself with Stormlight, reducing friction to zero, but then get hit with a sword?

Would it slide off your body, do reduced damage, what?

>>8845028

I have never seen a girl named Madara in my life

>>8845008

dont be a fool

>>8844914
I've mentioned it before, it's about an expedition made by this little country in the middle of nowhere to follow their river to the ocean, as their old records say that's where rivers terminate and they want to know where they are on the map. It turns out the planet is huge, so they just take their cool trucks across a different adventure every week. It's gone through a lot of iterations but right now I'm doing good work on a trilogy of short stories about when the expedition joins a motorized caravan crossing about five thousand miles of rugged terrain, and the bandits with small air forces, giant ice monsters in the mountains, god-like creature in the plains beyond them, that they encounter.

It's fantasy even though everyone has 1970s-era tech because science isn't the focus, it's on a secondary world with no mention of Earth, the planet's bigger than Jupiter but has one standard gravity, and there might be magic, but at this point I'm debating if I even need it.

But the character archetypes are a lot more like you'd find in, say, Gods Must Be Crazy 2 than Shannara. Grizzled mercs, ideological refugees, clueless city folk out for adventure.

>>8845038
Sanderson would probably think long and hard about that, then say it depends on exactly what you're slicking and how, and how if you do it wrong you might actually make it easier for it to cut you. He probably won't go down the route of careless edgedancers making their limbs slick off, but he might make it easier for swords to glance away.

Can someone point me in the direction of where I could get Roadside Picnic in Russian/cyrillic? I'm trying to learn the language and I also want to read it in its original prose. I can't find it for download either, so I guess I'll have to buy it.

>>8845089

We're not asking the important questions here. Did Dalinar storm Navani or not?

Shallan's spren all but implies he did, but we have to be sure.

>>8845269
A more important question is the existence of shitspren.

>>8845278

That's actually briefly touched upon in WoK, I think in one of the Kaladin flashbacks he askes his mother if even "dung" has sprens and she answer that it probably does.

And while we're on it, if you get horny while in a social situation and consequently attract some sexspren, wouldn't that be awkward as all fuck?

>>8844879
>TFW I send in a submission about how great it is to kill gays and Jews and how it improves the world
>Write it under a sandnigger penname
>It's arabic culture so it's all right and not problematic at all

>>8844879
I can tolerate the first part but
>request submissions from writers from underrepresented populations

Is the sci-fi sjw aids spreading to fantasy now, these people need to be put in ovens.

>>8845303
>now
Fantasy has been a vehicle for political correctness for a while now.

>>8845308
Not so much the mainstream and popular stuff from what I can tell. And no the lack of GRI doesn't count, I mean obvious agenda like this shit. One could argue for the kingkiller chronicle but I think that one hilariously fails at it by being a male power fantasy but for white knight orbiter nerds.

>>8845303
>I can tolerate the first part
Why though? What's wrong with European culture? It's actually not very well represented in the fantasy genre at all, a modern kitsch version of faux medievalism sprinkled with puddle deep Tolkien conventions is the most common setting. I understand that an ignorant American might think that the fantasy genre is very European but we the literati know that that this is not true at all.

Authentic European medieval culture is just as unexplored and foreign as any other culture in the modern post-Tolkien fantasy genre. I find it just as offensive for it to be the subject of Jewish discrimination as such done on the basis of race. Especially since I doubt that they truly embrace other cultures and that they really just want western liberalism (which is corrupted Christianity) with a light Oriental flavour.

>>8845296

It always struck me as super funny how /pol/ types hate the fuck out of radical Islamism while also having more or less the same ideals : kill the gays, jews, enslave women, one God et cetera.

Maybe they just don't like the competition.

>>8845324
It's understandable in a sense that you can set this as a theme then something else next time etc. and I wouldn't jump at it as some example of sjwism immediately out of context. But the second part just makes it abundantly clear.

And if you go in-depth in individual European medieval cultures wouldn't that be more like historic fantasy not just inspired by whatever fantasy? I do think we could use more of that but you need actual knowledge of history to do that right so most people aren't going to find the effort.

>>8845327
They're different breeds. Both bears and wolves are predators, they both hunt and they both eat the lesser animals. Yet the wolf does not get along with the bear, can you imagine why? It's a silly question, so I assume that you are a rabbit or a deer.

>>8845327
I don't see /pol/ going over to other countries and raising hell while the media portray them as poor, helpless refugees that are being discriminated against.

>>8845327
>anything less than full degendered anomie is enslaving women

>>8845339
bahahaha
>>8845346
that's because they never leave their mommys basement

>>8845339

>I am a wolf, if you will. An apex predator.

This is possibly the most fedora post I've seen in here and that includes the Rothfuss excerpts.

I'm actually
Havinga lot of fun

>>8845352
Spoken like a true rabbit.

>>8845370

Indeed, my good Sir. Soon we shall purge the Earth of these vermin and take all the wenches for ourselves, at long last we will have revenge on those who wedgied our underpants in school. *tips*

>>8845357
hard to take anything but the top covers even slightly seriously

>>8845375
i don't remember this dialogue in zootopia.
may be some other form?

>>8845339
>>8845347
>>8845349
Notice how the sjw will not even try to defend the point that started the whole discussion and just try to derail into shitposting, possibly by typing something stupid while pretending to be the opposition then jerking themselves off, or just picking out some random shitpost to reply to. Because as we all know sjws always lie.

>>8845377
Don't be mean. Each of them has its own charm in my opinion.

>>8845382
>discussion
>sjw
bahahahaha
Holy shizt, keep em coming. You're making my day.

>>8845382
The >>8845347 is meant to be >>8845352, wrong quote.

>>8845386
The people talking about it before they came along, I agree that you obviously can't discuss anything with them.

>>8845346
Your point doesn't change what he said about the two having similar ideals. In fact, it reinforces it:

"What would /pol/ do if they had the size and influence of Islam?"

>>8844981
Whichever ones dont censor his blatant racism.

>>8845352
I was talking about ideologies and social organization, not people. I'm also not identifying with either group myself. The allegory might put you off but I don't think that makes it inaccurate, the survivalist values of Muslims, Christians, /pol/acks and what have you are in stark contrast to the reversals of liberals, neo-marxists and so forth. If you cannot understand why they don't get along then you are likely to belong to the other camp because you do not know the fundamentals of what they are.
>>8845413
>What would /pol/ do if they had the size and influence of Islam?
Stop the white genocide. Remove Jewish influence from society. Create monoethnic states. They wouldn't flood the east with welfare sucking parasites in the hopes of winning a long term demographic war.

>>8845423
>What would /pol/ do if they had the size and influence of Islam

The inverse of how things are now, which is trading shit for shit. The human race should be done away with all together in retrospect of that. Preach that one group is objectively inferior to another and then go about how life is carved by your own hands. Shitty species that thinks it's intelligent, only in comparison to the other retarded life on the planet. The equivalent to an average kid being in a special ed class and being proud of being the top student.

>>8845436
meant for >>8845413

>>8845436

You should write to Sanderson and tell him you've discovered something sharper than the Shardblades : your edge.

>>8845400
I was mocking you, /pol/tard.

Theres no discussion to be had with the likes of you.

What do we have here in this thread?

>>8845448
I do not browse /pol/, too close to /b/ for my taste. But keep on lying, we all know it's what you do best.

>>8845445
I said what I said, and I meant what I meant. My view stays the same until shown otherwise.

But all of this is digressing. Is Edgedancer worth reading?

>>8845436
>The human race
Human species.

>>8845413

I would also like to know how they manage to concile Christ's command to love your enemy, turn the other cheek and all that hubbub with their fixation on race wars and genocides. The two seem kind of incompatible to me, but then again they probably just use doublethink.

>>8844970

Not him, but the trouble with our fantasy books is that 99% of them are never translated to English.

>there is more outrage at supposed /pol/acks in the thread than at a publisher actively discriminating against people based on their ethnic background

Really gets the noggin joggin

>>8845470

>Is Edgedancer worth reading?

First of all thank you for getting the thread back on track.

Edgedancer, read it if you're a completionist and want to know all that is going on in the Stormlight saga, but be advised that Lift is the worst character Sanderson ever wrote and the novella is entirely about her. the Herald Of Justice is cool though.

Race war when?

>>8845463
>calling everyone sjw
>pretends theres any discussion when it's just shitflinging on an anonymous image board

come on, you're from /pol/

What's a good relatively short fantasy novel that's good for winter? I need to read three novels before the end of the year to reach my quota

>>8845484

The Left Hand Of Darkness is a book in which winter plays a pretty important role, and it's also really good, perhaps the best "bromance" story I've ever read.

>>8845473
>love your enemy
Out of what if not love do they want to eliminate corruption, purge the synagogue of satan from this earth and spread the one true faith? As for race wars I don't see what's unchristian about fighting for your continued existence.
>turn the other cheek
This is an act of strong moral defiance, not of being a beta cuckold.

You seem to have the Jewish liberal version of Christianity confused with the real deal. Humanism and other such perversions are reprehensible.

>>8845481
Now. Yesterday and Tomorrow too. It has always been and will always be an ongoing struggle.

>>8845482
You are not a very good sjw if your lies can be proven wrong just by quoting a few posts >>8844258
>>8844879
>>8844888
>>8845303
>>8845324
etc.

Are you 14 by some chance and pretending to be one to collect (you)s? Not that real ones are much smarter so it is hard to tell.

>>8845489

Ah, so you just recategorized and redefined Christ's meaning to fit your own narrative. Thanks for clearing that up.

GAS THE KIKES
RACE WAR NOW

>>8845502
Like everyone else who ever read it. The bible's meaning is based on how the person interprets it. You can rationalize any idea with it.

It's not even true that you don't like politics in your SFF. If that were true you would be against Vox Day just as much as you are against say, Ann Leckie. Because their works are equally agenda-driven.

You just don't like politics in SFF -when don't agree with you-. Which is ironic in readers of a genre that is all about different perspectives. But I guess hypocrites will be hypocrites.

>>8845504
>cosmerefag-kun is a racist pollie
And I thought we could be friends. Just goes to show that you can't judge someone by how intelligent they sound when they type.

>>8845502
>recategorized and redefined Christ's meaning to fit your own narrative
No, this is what the Jews and atheists have done. I have done no such thing.

>>8845517
>intelligent based off their participation in a fantasy and sci-fi story discussion
That's a mighty far leap to begin with.

>>8845510
Damn they're going all out, I can sense the tears behind the post. Let's ignore the fact that Vox Day is barely ever discussed here. apart for rabid puppies sometimes being brought up for the drama it makes, since my impression is most people here think he is a fairly medicore writer. I can't really say much about his writing since I haven't read any of his sci-fi since I avoid sci-fi, going to try Throne of Bones at some point probably, not sure if he has any other fantasy.

I've also heard he mostly if not totally keeps his politics out of his books so this is probably another lie for the pile.

>>8845517
If you're not a racialist then you're a reality denying intellectual midget.
>>8845510
>If that were true you would be against Vox Day
This is a reaction to the leftist domination of genre fiction, it's your politicking that gives him influence. Were there no authoritarian leftist clique then he would have next to no renown. As far as his books go I am unaware of any agenda being espoused because I have not read them. The only reason I know of him is because of whining queers like GRRM making a fuss over what they consider heresy to the leftist dogma.

>>8845540

I especially like how the thought of Vox making up the "evil leftist clique" to become relevant doesn't even cross your mind.

Also you should know that in the last years of his life Lovecraft disavowed racism and conservativism and basically called himself a retard for ever having believed that shit.

>>8844879
This is fucking asinine.

>>8845551
>Vox making up the "evil leftist clique"
I never called them evil. Anyhow, just see >>8844879 or indeed the results of the awards previous to the puppies. I don't actually read much of what Vox writes, the big names however seem united against any voices of dissent towards their ideology. As for Lovecraft I don't think he ever was a conservative, just opposed to nihilism.

>>8844879
>writers from underrepresented populations
>This includes writers of any race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, nationality, class and physical or mental ability
So "anyone?" What is even the point of typing all this

>>8845589
That means anyone who isn't a straight white male

>>8845589
>So "anyone?
Anyone not white, male or straight is what they want. Because those people know how to write.

>>8844879
>no European cultures!
>no white male writers!

Guess I need to come up with a pen name that sounds foreign or something before I ever start trying to publish.

>>8845601

>tfw Southern Italian

I can write to my heart's content, no one considers us white.

>>8844879

Do they consider Slavs to be white?

>>8845634
Basically, if you can't pass a diversity photo op you aren't wanted

>>8845633
>no one considers us white.
Progressives probably do.

>>8845598
>>8845601
That's kind of disheartening. Should I just not even bother submitting to them? I can't pretend to be gay or whatever and re-write my story

>>8845646

As far as I can tell the "no European" thing is only one contest. It's not Tor's actual policy for ALL submissions, that would be fucking insane.

>>8845636

Damn my pale complexion, light brown hair and green eyes!

Can I tell them I identify as a transmediterranean?

>>8845652
>It's not Tor's actual policy for ALL submissions
They want it to be but then they wouldn't have anything to print. Realtalk: ff you don't wear your white guilt on your sleeve you can forget about Tor ever publishing your stuff if you're white.

>>8845655
Just start sucking cock and acting like a prancing lala homo man

>>8845671

But didnt Tor publish John C Wright? Doesn't Tor still publish Sanderson, whose books' primary antagonists are literally black singing slaves?

>>8845678
Haven't you heard? Homos are on the list of "enemies of progress" now.

>>8845692

you what now

>>8845680
Sanderson is about as progressive/left-leaning as it gets for a Mormon.

>>8844938
Hodgson was a contemporary I think and pretty good.

I like the boats of the Glenn carrig, the house on the borderland, and the night land. The latter isn't for everyone though; a lot of people complain about the faux old timey writing style. It does have a really neat aesthetic though. "The thing that watches from the north" and the "house of silence" are cool and scary ideas.

>>8845698

>as progressive/left-leaning as it gets for a Mormon.

so not at all.

>>8845694
Feminists have started hating gays.

If I loved Dune but wanted something like it that was purely fantasy which book should I pick up?

Been reading some Lynn Abbey and I have to say that I really like what she's done with Chronicles of Athas.

Are any of her other stuff good too?

>>8845717
Prince of nothing

>>8844761
No wizards. It's probably closer to percy jackson, though those books looked like ass to me even as a kid so I can't say for sure


Think of the labors of hercules in a noir setting, located in a New Amsterdam designed by a student of Hogwarts School for Witchcraft and Architecture.

It's an attempt to capture child-like wonder with hidden subways and speakeasies that have continued to operate years after prohition ended, copious food porn and a low-key magic system based on particle physics

>>8845116
Every russian book is easy to get online. Just google original title
https://www.google.com/search?q=пикник+нa+oбoчинe+epub&oq=Пикник+нa+oбoчинe&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l3.6586j0j4&client=ms-android-hms-tmobile-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

>>8844798
So, should I still try to publish it after finishing it? I want the chance to start over and the whole project has changed so much since I started it seems like a cancerous mishmash of different stories

>>8845634
they do

That's why I have begun to work on a Slavic intersectional framework

Gotta make sure that we have a seat at the table if this whole thing with being white does not work out

>>8845484
Face in the Frost is surprisingly short. A Wrinkle in Time has an ice planet, it's short and YA.

>>8845634
>Nazis used to make up ludicrous reasons why Axis-allied nations where connected to the Aryans
>today white people have to pretend they're of a different race so as not get discriminated against

I don't get why people are so pissed about this contest thing. The entire point is that a near exclusive focus on european fantasy is leaving the genre stagnant and homogeneous.

This is about introducing fresh settings, cultures and ideas, not say "Hurr durr whites suck"

I guess /sffg/ wouldnt understand it since this general is all about shitposting over the same three authors over and over

>>8845116
>in Cyrillic
https://chitanka.info/book/7235-neugovoreni-sreshti.epub
Гoтчy, фaм.

>>8845551
>Lovecraft
>conservatism
You only think in buzzwords, don't you?

>>8845510
I don't like VD. I don't like him at all. He's full of himself, makes goo-goo eyes at Cernovich, doesn't edit Wright enough, lets Castalia books come out with horrible vanity press covers, and so on and so forth. I haven't even read his prose. Let me make this clear: I do not like VD.

But I like what he's trying to do, to set up a marketplace for right-wing SFF. It's obvious he doesn't know what he's doing and is just letting things work out, but that's miles ahead of the last best thing we had, which was Baen.

I like politics in SFF. I like politics I don't agree with. I liked Moon is a Harsh Mistress, I loved The Dispossessed, and I enjoyed Forever War and Lost Fleet about the same, in their own ways. What I don't like is the major publishers freezing out politics they don't agree with. And I know you'll come out and say again that it's a conspiracy theory and that it's just all right-leaning authors suck, but every time you do that Tor releases another poorly-written howler that checks all the diversity boxes. Right-wingers need a chance, and of course it's better for them to start their own things than to whine about being let in, so of course it's nice that they're doing that.

And if you can find his politics in one of his works that is regularly discussed here I'll mail you a nickel.

>>8846006

I partially agree, however to understand the outrage you'd have to be familiar with the context, ie the whole Hugo/Puppy thing. This is seen as part of a larger struggle.

>>8845532
>Vox Day is barely ever discussed here.
Him and fedora man are mentioned every thread

>>8845680
Tor picked up Wright when Hartwell was alive. Sanderson probably hasn't realized the black singing slaves connection yet.

>>8845703
He's not GAS THE WHITES NO JUSTICE NO PEACE if that's what you're saying, but he's putting a gay character in his next Stormlight and he let Kowal cuck his podcast up with a bunch of Persons of Color whining about colonization.
http://wetranscripts.livejournal.com/123223.html

>[Steven] I think it also poisoned the tellers. Those who impose their mythology upon the world. Take a look at what has happened since 9/11. America has gone through a huge number of changes, because we found out we weren't invulnerable. Okay? At the same time that women were taking their power. Gays were taking their power. Having a black president. In other words, if you grew up as a white heterosexual Christian male, it must feel like the sky is falling. I mean, literally, because for generations, you believed… You might be polite about it, but you were able to believe that you were the center of the universe. I mean, I'm going to be nice enough not to say it to you. I will grant that you are my equal. Don't you dare think you're better than me, though. And privately, we all know…
>[Laughter]
>[Steven] So what happens when the colonizer is forced to wake up to the fact that people are just people? Awakening from the Matrix, as it were. It's painful.

...

>I think, it was back in 1984. The Song of Kali by Dan Simmons. I was… I think I was in my very early 20s when I saw it in a bookstore. I was so excited because I hadn't seen anything really so far that… I'm Hindu. I hadn't seen anything in Western literature that really showed me. So I got really excited and I went to read this book. It broke my heart, because Dan Simmons turned my goddess Kali into a bloodthirsty monster and had everybody who worshiped her be just horrible criminals and it was so hurtful.

>>8846042
You mean the bullishit with the hugos last year?

God, is this going to be another gamegate scandal? Are people going to send Rowling rape threats and burn a cross on Jesmin's lawn? I had better start collecting rare Sandersons

>>8844888
No. The best fantasy is based on quality stories with identifiable characters. Besides, simply making a character trans, or the setting African will not improve a poorly written book. As such, by having arbitrary identity based stipulations on submissions Tor is putting identity politics before quality stories.

>>8846058
Wright, yes, by the same person. Day, only in awards season and when he's just released a book.

>>8846068
And you can trust authors to give you quality stories with identifiable characters when they're putting the work in on their worldbuilding too.

>>8846072
Is this sarcasm?

>>8846067
>God, is this going to be another gamegate scandal? Are people going to send Rowling rape threats and burn a cross on Jesmin's lawn?

This has been happening for the last four years now. Both sides have engaged in shit flinging of the highest order, and that includes a flame war between John C Wright and GRRM. Have you been living under a rock?

People saying that "progressive SFF" is bad yet it seems like nobody here reads new books

Really fires up the neurons

Is Bakker a feminist?

>>8846097

>that includes a flame war between John C Wright and GRRM

What's that about?

>>8846067
>implying any of the gamergate threats were real

>>8846097
No, ive been staying out of bullshit micropolitics and reading

>>8846113
don't know about that but he seems to be craving for cock

>>8846121
Wright gets a bunch of his works on the Hugo ballots because VD asks his blog readers to register and vote. Scalzi and Gurm and co. get the vapors, GRRM writes a blog post about how this is such a travesty, ALL those Puppy picks are horrible people and horrible writers, Wright shows up in the comments saying, hey, you didn't think I was a horrible writer when you bought my Dying Earth story for the Jack Vance tribute anthology. GRRM goes yeah, you did great on that, captured Vance's voice better than anyone I know, but you're still a terrible person for being involved with VD, and also your stories this year aren't as good. And it goes back and forth with Wright wanting a retraction on him being a horrible writer and GRRM trying to move the goalposts to the current awards, and I don't think anyone involved even read the stories.

>>8846138
C'mon, man, this is the biggest SFF drama since the Vietnam editorial thing.

>>8846062
Good Lord he has absolutely no idea what he is taking about. Cult tier thinking.

>>8846006
>No whites allowed
>No European culture
>I don't get it, how is this bad at all? I mean if Jews or Negroes had been targeted that would have been suuper problematic but who cares about white people lol
Could you even name three post-Tolkien authors who produced authentic tales in the European tradition? I'm not talking about liberal fantasies about how bad it was before the enlightenment but the real thing. Are there even any traditionalist fantasy authors alive today? Culturally the genre is not European but American and America doesn't have a real culture.

>>8846094
I assume so. The sole focus on world building is one of the main reason fantasy is so shit these days. They literally just add shit without thinking of the thematic purpose.

>female protagonist or point of view
>muh sexism
>muh men are evil
>women stronk roooooar

>>8846190
>Could you even name three post-Tolkien authors who produced authentic tales in the European tradition?
Donaldson.
Stoddard.
Beagle.
Do you even read fantasy?

Why does /pol/ ruin everything?

>>8846206
>implying these threads are ever good

>>8846132
Kek

>>8846199
That's not good world-building though. Seek only good worldbuilding and you will not have it, just as when you write a fantasy novel and seek only character, and let the world fall to the wayside, you have only produced a normiebook with pointy-eared people and wagons.

>>8846205
these fucks literally just go to various threads to REEEEEEEE against modernity they have no hobbies besides promoting their epic fashy ideology

>>8846220
No, I also come to these threads to "ree" against modernity and I also promote authoritarian ideologies, I'm just concerned this man has only surface-level understanding of his own heritage. I apologize for the confusion.

>>8846220
Those who live in places other than basements dont go "Reeeeeeeee." That's a screech reserved for tea kettles and vampires. You find yourself in suitable company among blood suckers and hot air

Get hyped lads.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/12/15/pierce-brown-iron-gold-cover-plot-new-red-rising-trilogy

>>8846242
>You can’t just break an entire galaxy and not pick up the pieces.
But that's why I loved the first trilogy so much.

tfw love space opera but dislike hard scifi

sffg, how do you adapt speech patterns to different time periods to make them seem believable but still readable?

One of my characters has a ranting, sesquipedalian sort of speech pattern that seems too modern to fit the prohibition-era atmosphere. I want too keep the attitude without obvious anachronism

>>8846242
Kinda wish this was in a new setting

My interest in Red Rising fell off hard in the third book when it was more about the world, I was bored by the viking planet even though it was a cool sequence

>>8844983
Godsdoom seems cool, thanks for the reccomendation

>>8846113
Is esmenet the most realist depiction of women in modern fantasy?

Jesus Christ that last line in The Death Of Dr.Island chilled me to the bone. Wolfe, you beautiful bastard.

>>8844975
Asking again since it was late at night when I last asked.

>>8844975
>>8846507

Try The Dragons Of Babel. Same setting as Iron Dragon's Daughter, but better written.

>>8845377
Middle is classiest. Old cheesy fantasy covers a best.

>>8846215

>normiebook with pointy eared people and wagons

People so often mistake world building with setting building. Setting is the environment in which characters interact and undergo conflict. The setting should reflect the underlying themes of the story and reinforce what is at stake in the conflict. You are just retarded if you think worldbuilding is what makes a good story.

>>8846513
Thanks.

Anyone read all of Elizabeth Moon's stuff?

I loved Deed of Paks and Vatta's War is also really fun, I'm wondering if that quality holds up with her other stuff

Is the Black Company any good?

>>8844879
White guilt is ruining the west.

>>8846613
Yes

>Rothfuss, Abercrombie, Goodkind, Weeks and Lynch are all SHIT.

Jury's still out on Bakker and Erikson.

>>8846756
Of those Lynch had a good debut and nothing else and Abercrombie has done some decent stuff since his debut but not good enough to override that trash.

The other three are obviously bad

>>8846765
The Republic of Thieves was much better than Red Seas Under Red Skies, but yeah, a definite stumble after his first book.

>>8844879
>tfw Tor and every other major publisher is basically hemorrhaging money at this point
Let them burn.

Stop buying their shit.

Buy used or pirate.

>>8846504
nah. Serwe is though

>>8846100
>nu SciFi/fantasy
ayylmao

Are there any fantasy novels that use a setting similar to pic related? Not talking about Urban Fantasy stories that still use the real world. I mean, instead of ripping off Tolkien, rip off PRESENT DAY, PRESENT TIME Earth? Final Fantasy games are the only things I can think of right now that have worlds like this.

>>8847058
>present day fantasy
Rofl'd.

>>8846331
Pussyole

>>8847058
Try Pendragon Protocol

>>8844772
Book of the New Sun
The Prince of Nothing series
The Black Company series

>>8846800
There goes one who only knows English. The chinks and spics fight and argue on the net like hellhounds.

Is Uprooted good guys?

From Jack Vance, should I get Demon Princes or Dying Earth? Isn't the former like classic adventure sci-fi and the latter post apocalyptic?

>>8847213
I'd say get the former because I found Dying Earth really boring.

>>8847220
Thank you for your opinion anon, I was leaning towards it too due to opinion from friends, apparently it just keeps getting better until book 4 but I wanted a /sffg/ opinion on them

>>8847058
No one wants Post-industrial fantasy because post-industrial society because swords > magically augmented ARs

>>8847209
It's a good but unambitious (well it's YA so that's not too surprising) fantasy story. Has a sort of pseudo-slavic setting which is a bit different from usual, and a sort of Stalker style "Zone" being central to the plot.

Does romance and fantasy ever work well? I've had meager dealings with it and it always ends up being shoehorned in for convenience or a total afterthought.

>>8845008
Mis sa Gort Ashryn raamatutest arvad?
Any favourute Estonian sff books or authors?
Pealegi, väljasõit rohelisse ning Bulgakovi M&M olid ju okei.

>>8847213
Demon Princes is shitloads of fun but Dying Earth is absolutely a must read if you're into fantasy

>>8847321
Not really. It's a tired trope, so unless it's trying to be something special, it's always just a side story

>>8847767
Yeah, this. Romance works best as a subplot anyways.

>>8846341
My problem with the viking setting was they had more important things to do. The pace in the first two just never lets up, the third dawdles.

>>8846552
>You are just retarded if you think worldbuilding is what makes a good story.
Good thing I obviously don't, then.

>>8846552
>The setting should reflect the underlying themes of the story and reinforce what is at stake in the conflict.
Thanks for making my point.

>>8847058
I bring up this problem now and then without mentioning that game. I am in the process of writing something like that, and was long before I knew FFXV was about a road trip in a secondary-world US Southwest.

>>8847795
>>8847767
Well then, what books would have it in a way that was done well, even as a subplot? I've only really ever read the Inheritance trilogy and regret ever reading it, Harry Potter, and the Wheel of Time books. At least, in terms of having some sort of romance to it, even if it's small.

>>8846559
>Vatta's War
That's so much fun

I love that the protagonist is basically a murderous psychopath

>>8847904
The Witcher books have a pretty solid romance subplot in that it's not some dumbshit love at first sight thing, and there's actual romantic development, but there's a lot of cuckoldry on both sides.

Baru Cormorant had a good one that really ties into the overall themes and worldbuilding, but it's very subtle for most of the book.

I've recently finished playing Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines and I want more so I was looking into reading some World of Darkness novels. I know this is a long shot but are any of them worth reading?

>>8847904
>Inheritance trilogy
Do you mean Inheritance Cycle (Eragon) or Inheritance Trilogy (Jemisin)?

The latter is pretty good as far as romantic fantasy goes, even if three whole books of it is too much

>>8844105

Hard for me to want to read books by most of these authors when they spend so much of their time being chodes on Twitter.

>>8848013
You know that you can just not follow them on twitter right?

Or separate the author from their work? William Burroughs was a massive twat and I'm still capable of liking his work.

>>8848016

It was probably easier to separate artists from their work when art could exist without being political and artists didn't have an international soapbox they could update and talk shit to people on every time they microwaved a burrito.

>>8848013
Just stay away from twitter. It's an evil form of communication and no person is made better for using it.

>>8844678
Nice

>>8848005
Eragon books. Most unsatisfying waste of my time, really. I'll look in to the latter though.

>>8847966
Do I have to play the games to understand it? Or would playing the games after reading the books make the games suck?

>>8848024
>when art could exist without being political

So you mean never?

>>8848049
The games take place after the books IIRC, but can be played just fine without reading the books or vice versa.

>>8846505
>That last line in The Island of Doctor Death

What did he mean by this?

>>8848030
It's been my belief for a long time that twitter is by far the worst thing the internet spawned by a large margin, no other website comes close.

>>8848049
>>8848058
Yeah the games are set after the books, so you don't need to play the games. You don't need to have read the books to play the games, but it does help you to understand some of the cameos and characters and all that shit.

>>8848024
>It was probably easier to separate artists from their work when art could exist without being political
Mishima led a fucking right wing coup

As a silly left winger I still like his writing

>>8848024
>It was probably easier to separate artists from their work when art could exist without being political
...you do realise that the fucking Iliad was a political work, right?

>>8848050

Key word could. Not every book has to be about muh race and muh gender. It's a transparent push by leftist ideologues to rewrite the culture. Doing it the right way: The Left Hand of Darkness. Doing it the wrong way: everything written by Kameron Hurley. Will you at least agree there is a spectrum on this? If so, why is it so far-fetched for you to believe book publishers are moving more in one direction than the other, particularly if they view that direction as profitable?

>>8847512
>>8845008

How are there so many estonians here?

>>8848114
True History, written sometime around 150AD:
>In the interval, while I was living on the moon, I observed some strange and wonderful things that I wish to speak of. In the first place there is the fact that they are not born of women but of men: they marry men and do not even know the word woman at all! Up to the age of twenty-five each is a wife, and thereafter a husband. They carry their children in the calf of the leg instead of the belly. When conception takes place the calf begins to swell. In course of time they cut it open and deliver the child dead, and then they bring it to life by putting it in the wind with its mouth open.

ancient roman ess-jay-dubs rewriting culture with their transgender moon men!

What the fuck am I reading.

>>8848226
why do you even post
like, you must read a random three words from what you're replying to then pick a response from a list
Are you a bot?

>>8845377
Middle covers are the best though.

Has anyone read A Deepness in the Sky or A Fire Upon the Deep? How are they?

>>8845327
This is a straw man. Also one very, very big difference between /pol/ and Islam is /pol/ doesn't want to take over the world.

>>8848472
A Fire Upon the Deep is really good, I've heard mixed things about the rest of the series but have not read them.

Is Bakker actually good?

No memes pls

>>8848514
I've never heard anyone call his books enjoyable.

>>8848514
I enjoyed the first trilogy in highschool. Haven't read any of the later ones, and that was a few years ago.

>>8845473
Because the vast majority of the gas the kikes race war now DEUS VULT 1488 guys are just memeing.

Currently reading Letters from Hades, so far great weird book, anyone read follow ups? I know that Voices from Hades are short stories, are they essential or can I just go for Fall of Hades?

>>8845633
Hey, how did you get in here. There isn't any electricity or internet in southern Italy

>>8848050
Stop using the fact that authors have opinions as a an excuse to shamelessly write pure propaganda, lefty.

>>8848514
Interesting, something different.

>>8848542
But I'm enjoying it so far

>>8848472
Deepness has better ideas (nanotech slave autists, hypertranslation for cross-species unity, inflatable space habitats, UNIX time for a spacefaring humanity) while Fire has better pacing and is more fun (trans-galactic Usenet flamewars developing into real wars, an AI called The Ancient One because it's 12 years old, a swashbuckling battle programmer from the heart of the galaxy). I liked them both a lot. Vinge's other stuff just looks underwhelming idea wise so I've never read it.

>>8845780
So basically a post apocalyptic world with lots of buildings around?
Will have to search through my archive, but if you don't want lev grossman you can try bookotns?

What you described sounds like urban fantasy, but you want low magic sooo..

>>8849020
Sounds more like a Neverwhere clone.

Which novel is the most insane of them all?

>>8847753
>Dying Earth is absolutely a must read if you're into fantasy
>dying earth
>good
>trying to meme someone else

>>8849069
>Books to avoid
>A shitton of great books

>>8849072
Sauce on that doujin?

>>8845413
>"What would /pol/ do if they had the size and influence of Islam?"
You could literally apply this to anything, you stupid fuck.

>>8849072
Dino poster's a fucking idiot

They whine about anything old but the modern stuff they actually read is exclusively YA urban fantasy trash.

Notice how they replied to a post who was answering "which Jack Vance should I read" and still felt the need to jump and go "I don't like him wah wah wah"

>>8849077
Not that anon, but search "male:tomgirl" on sadpanda and your hands will never be empty.

>>8847058
So you mean modern day technology but set in a secondary world?

>>8848514
Yes, superb.

>>8849077
>>8849156
gross

>>8849167
hi Scott

>>8849148
>they actually read is exclusively YA urban fantasy trash
>GRI APPROVED novels is now ya
Okay. Your fee-fees are just hurt I don't corporate with memeing people into wasting their time on shit hooks like you dolts did to me.

And before you say the lists I post are memeing I expect people to do their research before they read.
When I researched some of those books and asked yall if they are good because it wasn't looking good, you sweared up and down it was the best thing evar! and the prose just melts off the page!1!!!

Fuck off to outer lit. One of the books you memed Dhalgren is listed as sci-fi but the only thing sci-fi related is the fucking laser chains.

You literary fiction fags need to fuck off. I can imagine all of you wearing a fedora in front of your computer's screen, tipping every time you dissuade someone from reading actually sci-fi /fantasy and meme them into read trash shit.

>>8849181
Look, I don't hate you for your poor taste. I hate you for your writing style. You might think we think there are other anti-dino-posters out there but your prose sticks out so painfully there's no chance of that ever happening. Vance is great. Tolkien is great. I'm not trying to trick anyone when I recommend them.

>anything I don't like is memeing
>unironically likes GRI
You don't know how those work, do you.

>>8849174
>doesn't know how to use sadpanda
You are supposed to end up with stuff like pic related

>>8849181
>I hate Vance but I don't read YA trash
>here's my rec chart, I actually read YA trash and sometimes Vance

>>8849191
>gyaru new halfs bitch boys
all muh fetishes in one desu famalam

>>8849181

>Skinwalker

Wew lad, I actually got that shit thrown my way a few years back.

>>8849190
>Vance is great. Tolkien is great
Only a very specific kind of person likes these, and unless you're sure the person you're recommending them to is one of those, you shouldn't. The problem with this thread is that everyone just jerks over these and Wolfe and whatnot and recommends them to every person when most people won't like them. It's no wonder that people like that Anti-dino guy are born when the opposing faction is being so pushy and just as obnoxious.

>>8849190
I'm the most visible antidino anon because I usually follow with a pic.

I laugh my ass off when I come in the thread and see some oil rig harvesting a fresh potent source of fossil fuel.

>>8849208
If you can't hack Wolfe you don't belong here. What's your problem, we'll push people out with our obnoxious Vance recs? Break their delicate little hearts when they find out they have irredeemably bad taste?

>>8849208
Tell me about the books all kinds of persons likes. Are there universally good genre authors?

>>8849208
>Tolkien is niche

>>8849222
>Are there universally good genre authors?
Stevian Heartbound

>>8849208
>Only a very specific kind of person likes these, and unless you're sure the person you're recommending them to is one of those, you shouldn't.
Yeah I'll dust off my questionnaire for you people, just wait right there.

>>8849193
Unlike you fags I have data to back up my "hate".
I actually read the books I talk shit about. A lot of you admit you never touched bakker, Sanderson, weeks, etc and you still shit on their books like you have first hand experience with what was wrong.

Why are you even here if you don't read the books to have solid points to give as to why it's shit?
Do you even read?
Are you one of those anons that go into the literary confession threads and say the last book you read was 10 years ago and you just come to lit to meme?

>>8849233
anon how does that address how you stomped that other anon for telling the first anon - who had already decided to read Vance - which Vance book to read, and responded to criticisms of your disrecommendation of Vance, by recommending Vance?

>>8849233
>I have data
>here's anecdotal evidence that you don't
Also how does all of that have anything to do with Vanceposting?

>>8849181
>anon discovers taste is subjective

>>8849244
I think you're giving him too much credit

>>8849226
I will write a novellete and call it to kill a shill.
You Stevian will have a front row seat as the lead character, and your gruesome death will be described in delicious detail.

>>8845698
Eh, Mormons are becoming very progressive these days. Shit's getting full feminism.

>>8848105
>Mishima led a fucking right wing coup

You call that a coup? Topkek

It was performance art, his suicide was planned from the very beginning. He was batshit insane but not even he could have possibly thought it was ACTUALLY going to work.

>>8848066

I'm referring to when Dr. Island erases the personality of the kid and the other half is so dumb he can only make guttural noises, but then the last line of the story is "there was no reply." which in context is really fucking scary.

>>8849181
>SFFG BOOKS TO AVOID
>Lies of Locke Lamora
>SFFG SUGGESTION CHART
>Lies of Locke Lamora
You can't even remember your own gimmick

Anyone read Roadside Picnic by the Strugatsky-brothers? Any thoughts about these kind of Soviet-era scifi books?

I haven't read any others myself. Found this one while reading about the inspiration for the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games

>>8849278
Daniel Abraham's Long Price quartet is also both on the avoid and suggestion chart

>>8849282
>>8849278
And Prince of Thorns (which actually is trash, imagine recommending that just because it's edgy)

>>8849265
The culture's become a bit de-masculinized in some areas but we're never giving women the priesthood and we're never letting gays marry. The leaders are as hidebound as ever, thank God. It's the loud ones that make you think we're all like that.

>>8849280
It's good but from what I remember the translation is a bit staid, well worth a read regardless.

>>8849241
I was responding to the fag saying he is an absolute must to read. You will chase people from the genre if you suggest shit like vance to new readers.

A lot of people drop books a few pages in and shit on it (Sanderson, weeks books, etc) I don't see you guys say shit when that happens. When someone who actually completes a book and shits on Tolkien, Vance, Delaney, Wolfe, Stephenson, etc you guys go berserk. You start calling the person troll, pleb, underage etc.

Why the one sidedness?

>>8849296
>You will chase people from the genre if you suggest shit like vance to new readers.
[citation needed]

>When someone who actually completes a book and shits on Tolkien, Vance, Delaney, Wolfe, Stephenson, etc you guys go berserk.
That's how we hold discussions here, reddit-senpai.

>>8849244
I know it's subjective, it's the Tolkiens, Conans, Greymousfags that behave like it's objective. It's what spawned the dino meme in the first place.

He was saying you must conform to his tastes. Every. Single. Thread.

Thank god he is gone. It's just the brood he left we have to contend with, and they aren't as vicious as the mother.

>>8849302
dude, it's just anons saying Grey Mouser is great, then you jumping in with some moronic oil joke every. single. thread.

>>8849302
Tolkien is objectively great.

>>8849307
Objectively bad, you mean.

>>8849302
>He was saying you must conform to his tastes. Every. Single. Thread
I have been coming to this general for over a year and I do not recall anyone demanding I conform to his tastes. I do recall someone patching together crappy dino memes and pouncing on anyone who suggested he might like old books.

>hey guys which Vance book should I read?
>REEEE DON'T READ VANCE
>here's what you should read instead : Vance

You are too retarded to function. I am amazed by your continued existence, how do you even remember to breathe?

>>8849309
No, the mistake is yours, friend.

>>8849283
The red queen was complete shit. Prince of thorns was okay.

>>8849278
Locke Lamora was a great first book, but he shafted me with the later installments especially the "muh ginger vagina" novel. I was understandably butthurt when I made that avoid chart having just finished dhalgren.

I've calmed dow since then. The suggestions chart is a little bit for everyone. Vance isn't a bad author, but he is dated and if I was a newfag pleb looking to put my toe in the water and you fags gave me dying earth I would leave the genre all together.

>>8849322
>if I was a newfag pleb
Anon, I...

>>8849290
>>8849280
The latest translation is really good, I recommend.
Get metro 2033 while you are at it.

>>8849329
Bought it last month, gonna read it when I finish House of Leaves.

>>8849322

What you don't understand is that in the vast majority of cases, if you've found your way to /ssfg/ then that means you've already been through all the usual stuff and are looking for something more.

Also, we didn't rec Vance to that anon. He had ALREADY DECIDED, ON HIS OWN, to read him. But you just had to shitpost.

>>8849337
>House of Leaves

Oh boy

>>8849301
>[citation needed]
>calls me reddit when he doesn't take my words as proof of the matter
Just outed yourself faggit back to tumbshit.

>>8849312
>a year
Bless your heart dear. You missed most of it.

>>8849325
>on /lit/ since 2010
Fuck off

>>8849348
But I had to scroll past anti-dino-anon and his high-larious oil jokes every thread. Oh look it's Gormenghast Park again, that never gets old.

>>8849351
>spends six years being butthurt
That's dedication, anon.

>>8849356
>>8849312
>anon-kun didn't like the dinopark pun
Do you like my new creation?

>>8849363
It's better than your go-back-to-/pol/ one but they all have that weird, unsettling quality to them, like the magazine cutouts insane people plaster their garages with.

>>8849363
I'm not going to use it much because I'm a wolfe fan, but I will bring it out on occasions.

Anymore fresh ideas to turn into memes?

>>8849371
It's because they are cutouts... I never learnt to use photoshoop, so all these years it's gimp I was using.

I'm sure photoshop can seemingly merge all those elements so they look like they are from the same piece, but I can't be arsed to put time into learning and perfecting photoshop. Hell, my gimp skillz suck too and I'm sure (with adobe working well with apple) you don't have to put any much effort to change shit on a photo with photoshop.

>>8847904
You could always read about the forbidden love of woman and dragon.

>>8849381
You're trying to combine pictures that are too different from each other to begin with, and you're also putting in distracting details. The bar Wolfe's in is way more eye-catching than the black-and-white man with a hammer, and there's no reason for Pepe to be on the TV.

>>8848261
An incredibl(y wierd) book?

>>8849391
The stock photo I used as a template was some room in the google headquarters. I wanted a place indoors to put the table, so the book can get Christianity hammered into it.

The pepe is from an anon who asked if I was using that was a template. I put it in the pic to show I cared. Hell, the pepe can be used to symbolize sffg brutal treatment of normies(wojak).

>>8849145
If you're retarded, take things out of context, and lack reading comprehension it could. Yes.

New Thread

>>8849931
>>8849931
>>8849931

>>8848261
buncha Gnostic bullshit.