/lit/ - Literature

>>8771524
>is a nihilist
>doesn't know why he is depressed

>>8771524
Ah, the laziest form of philosophy. Let me know when you've developed a thought on the world that doesn't essentially devolve to "It doesn't matter anyway."

>>8771548
What thought doesn't?

>>8771548
Well, if something isn't matterless, the only other possibility is that it "does matter". So, what does matter in your morally superior worldview?

>>8771556
Let me just give you an example:

"There is an objective morality that ought to be followed by virtue of it being moral."

Or if that's too dificult for you:

"There is a God and there is a certain relationship with him that pleases him most"

There you go, take a fucking leap of faith and quit your whining.

>>8771567
>somebody disagrees with me so they're clearly intellectually lazy

Watch out newfriend, I'd hate for you to cut yourself on that edge while you walk to the school bus (^:

>>8771562
Much better, let's just go from there. Saying that things matter brings up further questions, rather than leaving us at a philosophical dead end. Assuming that things matter, because that's just better for our purposes, then what is it about this world that makes it matter most? A sense of purpose may help with OP's depression.

>>8771567
Did you get that from his OKC account?

>>8771599
I'll stop you right there. I'm not OP and if you want things to matter, go for it.

My problem with the whole thing is, if things do matter, where does that 'matter' come from? The only thing I can conclude is that it comes from the one seeking 'matter' in which case it is completely arbitrary and objectively has no tangible value.

>>8771634
Why should things have an objective value? The very idea of value is a subjective matter all by itself.

>>8771634
>objectively has no tangible value.
No, meanings have objective value because they let people interpret phenomena in the world.

>>8771524
The fact that you're sad is a refutation of nihilism.

>>8771701
I'm not saying things should have an objective value, I'm saying if things are to matter any more than me simply saying they matter, they should have some inherent value, given by some higher being. Seeing as all higher beings are derived from man, those beings too have no tangible matter and cannot give things value. So I constantly return to square one where nothing has 'value'.

>>8771708
Maybe I'm dumb, but I can't understand what you're getting at.

>>8771738
>I can't understand what you're getting at.
You think that meanings being created by people makes them "arbitrary" or not "objectively" valuable, but even if meanings are just created by human beings, they still have objective value, they provide tangible benefits to the individual. Imagine your an alcoholic and you're miserable, so you go to AA and it helps you quit drinking every day. Sure, AA was just made up by some guy, it's not "objectively" the best way to live or anything, but it still helps people deal with their alcoholism. And that is objectively valuable.

>>8771532
Brain chemistry is fucked.

IF THERE IS NOTHING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT, THEN THERE IS ALSO NOTHING TO BE SAD ABOUT. Individualist are bullshit, anon.

>>8771524
Read Nietzsche and Kierkegaard.

F THERE IS NOTHING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT, THEN THERE IS ALSO NOTHING TO BE SAD ABOUT. Dualities are bullshit, anon.

>>8771524

IF THERE IS NOTHING TO BE HAPPY ABOUT, THEN THERE IS ALSO NOTHING TO BE SAD ABOUT. Dualities are bullshit, anon.

>>8771548
>Ah, the laziest form of philosophy
Why does being the laziest make it untrue?

Aiiight the cool guys who are talking about leaps of faith and shit are forgetting that certain philosophers, like them, have only interpreted the world, the point is to change it. My practical advice for you OP is find someone to fuck. If you can't, try opiates, they're pretty good.

>>8771556

You can create your own idol to worship, you can worship the void, or you can die. Those are your choices.

>>8772623
/lit/ 2016

>>8772606
wut

>>8771524
I prescribe you Nietzsche. Twenty pages every evening for two weeks. Preferably don't read anything else an hour before or after. Come see me, if your nihilism isn't cured in that time. It would mean that your nihilism has been untreated for too long and has become chronic, so we would have to adjust your dosage and maybe consider changing the prescription.

>>8771726

I don't have a problem like OP does, but i do have a problem when anti-natalists go a tangent about why people should stop reproducing

>>8771524
It means you need this

Take a lesson from The Big Lebowski. A lot of nihilists are just forming an elaborate coping mechanism because they fear death. I'd wager that 95% or more nihilists are acting that way, to be detached in a hipster way.

>>8771738
>I'm saying if things are to matter any more than me simply saying they matter, they should have some inherent value, given by some higher being.

How about the inherent value given to things by the nature of your being? You know, you're a biological creature with inherent values built in through evolution. I don't mean like eat and fuck or anything that simple. I just mean that your thought patterns and who you are is all basically a product of your nature. Life begins to have meaning when you realize that being an individual is an inherently meaningful process. You are a swirling ball of conscious and subconscious choices made for you and from you since your birth, and all you can do is care about the mess of an identity you are. You've been building it up for years and years and you've put so much effort into it that you ought to feel some sort of attachment, whether all of that effort was intentional or not. Form your identity and your meaning out of that swirling ball of emotions and beliefs and biases and experiences.

It's the only way.

>>8771524

Nihilism

a : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless

b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths

It's intrinsically linked with depression. Welcome to existential dread, you'll be thinking about the fact that you are going to die, that existence is futile and how everything mankind has ever created is just another distraction on the road to the grave, for the rest of your short, meaningless life. Have fun!

Try reading entry level existential literature like The Stranger, Nausea and my favorite, Journey to the End of the Night :

Not much music left inside us for life to dance to. Our youth has gone to the ends of the earth to die in the silence of the truth. And where, I ask you, can a man escape to, when he hasn't enough madness left inside him? The truth is an endless death agony. The truth is death. You have to choose: death or lies. I've never been able to kill myself.”

nihilism is irrelevant and eats itself.

>>8772936
Dvaita heretic

You are fucked OP
Or you get up and start lifting and go out even if you feel your heart is perma bleeding and you are making 0 synapse OR you keep whining
Your choice, I suggest the first one. Do whatever, kill people if that makes you happy, it doesnt matter.

>>8773598
What the fuck is cardio

>>8771567

>>8774243
I hope that meme makes you chuckle OP

>>8774239
cardiovascular exercise

>>8774248
Whats its end game?

>>8774251
lose gains

>im a nihilist
You are sad because you are a cuck
You have to belive in life AKA get a life

>>8774252
What is some pro gains exercise, lifting? Im still skinny, should I GOMAD?

Why are you sad about everything becoming nothing after you die if when you die you will not be able to realize any of that faggy shit?
Why are kids these days so gay? Was /pol/ right? Are the goverments putting estrogen into water?
I bet you smoke weed, OP, where the fuck are your parents?
Nah, forget about them, they would probably tell you to take SSRI (pro tip: dont take them)

>>8771524

>getting depressed by nihilism
>not rejoicing in the understanding that nihilism is a bridge between existentialism and becoming the overman

keep rolling that rock up the hill anon

Read Rimbaud and listen to Death Grips
You have to be the beast you worship, OP
Make a noise band, paint something, write your deepest feelings
Get a fucking job
No one is perfect, I need coffee to start my day, maybe that will work for you

>>8774243
I was born in religion, molded by it.

>>8771524
My man I was literally just thinking about how much I hate this shitty fucking 'nihilists' and here you are! The reason you're miserable is because you're a nihilist and it is a very miserable state of existance. The people you are talking about are basically just athiest hedonists who fail to understand that their are concious and unconcious ideologies. The think because they don't believe in some explicit big other that they must not believe in anything. It makes me want to die alot.

>>8774257
Yes, GO CRAZY

>>8771708
>meanings have objective value because they let people interpret phenomena in the world.

Why would that give them objective value?

>>8774392
Will all that milk give me acne? I hate that shit

>>8774382
Is never to late to uncuck yourself

>>8774280
you read too much and think too little

>>8771524
LSD

>>8774411
If you are using LSD for anything else than fun and synesthesia you are a cuck

I'm hoping the digital age will shut you Nihilist fucks up. Then you can cry about what actually doesn't matter, i.e., YOU

>>8774519
You are one of them too

>>8774404
I've tried, but I just end up becoming interested in other religions.

Why is every self proclaimed nihilist Ive ever met is a pseudeo intellectual shit lord? This one faggot use to always bring up that he was a nihilist, and then he would make out of place refrences to Nietzsche and Dostoevsky about the meaninglessness of existence (he claims Crime and Punishement is his favorite novel but I doubt he read it or at least if he did he didnt understand it). Also hes a self proclaimed post modernist

>>8774617
Why?

>>8771524
>I'm a nihilist but I'm depressed
>but

>>8771524
Let's get a few things straight: thinking life is meaningless does not make you a nihilist; being depressed does not make you a nihilist; not believing in morality does not make you a nihilist. In addition, true nihilism--the rejection of everything--is not an ideology you adopt, but a sort of madness (if I recall, Nietzsche likened it to a malaise), as it is impossible to practice or logically justify.

>>8774671
>allow me to redefine nihilist to prove youre not a nihilist!

>>8774570
>You are one of them too
What? I'm a Nihilist? Heavens no, Hedonism is my biz

>>8774641
>Nietzsche
>Niilist
Why people can't pick one?

>>8774749
Two faces of the same coin

>>8774756
Because theyve never actually read Neitzsche besides his meme quotes. Same for Dostoevsky, he was pretty anti nihilist too

>>8774719
If by redefine you mean use the definition that Nietzsche gave it, then yes.

>>8774766
The definition Neitzsche gave isnt the modern definition you fucking sperglord. When some mentions platonic relationships do you think theyre talking about a third realm of abstract objects?

>>8774763
You mean some people actually think Dostoevsky was a nihilist?

>>8771524

A bout de souffle (1960) Jean-Luc Godard

Professor Dreyfus lecture - Breathless (À bout de souffle) Active & Passive Nihilism

Depression will continue after you've destroyed everything, and not everything you destroy will be discontinued. That's how babys are made.
- A. B. Pow

>>8774784
Yes. The guy I was talking about in >>8774641 thinks Crime and Punishment is a nihilstic novel

>>8771524

It's true that your personality will disappear after you die, but why is that anything to be depressed about? There is no "you" - your personality isn't unique. Personality represents favour of one subjective preference over another. That's it.

Unlike personality however, conscience represents the preference of true over false, and good over bad. Learn to distinguish between your conscience, which is objective and veritas, and your personality, which is a subjective illusion.

We all share one conscience - it will exist so long as humanity does. It is the spark of the divine in man. Your personality will die with your body, but the conscience you share in, the only real thing about 'you', is immortal and cannot die.

Moreover, death is, as you say, inevitable. Being frightened of death is no different than being frightened of the wind or the rain. Is feeling anxious and frightened ever helpful? No.

Vive in memor mortis; fugit hora.

γνώθι σεατον - μούνος σοφός εστίν ελεύθερος

>>8774400
Because it makes you more likely to survive and thrive in an increasingly information-complex world? How is that not an objective benefit?

>>8775175
How is it an objective benefit?

>>8771524
Get a fucking hobby. You are depressed because you have no occupation that keeps you from going insane.

Idleness is the mindkiller.

>>8775561
It gives you a material advantage.

Drop and become the Außenmensch.

t. Außenmensch64

>>8775175
Objective benefit =/= objective value. Value cant be objective since its determined by what pelople think its value is

>>8775615
Values objectively exist. Just because different people have different values doesn't cancel out the fact that having a system of values is materially and psychologically beneficial, i.e. has real world implications. That's objectively true even if the content of the values is different.

>>8775646
>Values objectively exist
Yes but they are subjectively determined

>>8771524
Why not just read the Nihilism paradox?

Nihilism rejects any exposition or data on any topic that contains meaningful or communicable content, while also positing that Nihilism itself communicates the data that there cannot be any meaningful or applicable data, and therefore all doctrines or ideologies must be judged as vapid and by virtue of any content serving any cause

This would mean that in following the doctrine of Nihilism: you would be positing that it had content meaningful enough to be copacetic with a rational conception of a goal,

That the will of the Nihilism doctrine itself forces you to reject the content of the Nihilism doctrine itself, because it tries to contain meaningful exposition, means that it is utterly illogical, and that a doctrine similar to Nihilism positing that the doctrine "Nihilism" contains the only truly valuable guidance is also fallible because it would go against the sole purpose of the doctrine, exuding the information that meaningful content be necessarily be expunged in application, communication or knowledge.

Nihilism as a fact would at least give us one portion of information, which would mean information, albeit un-communicable: has both practical application, and is to a certain degree displayed as an omnipotent, monolithic truth.

It fails categorically to deliver its own message without exiling the very foundations which it is built upon; do not trust it?

I don't know

>>8775661
No, a society's values aren't just made up by a guy and delivered to everyone else, nor are they made up on the spot every time people need them. Values are determined by history, culture, and geographical circumstances, all of which are objective phenomena.

>>8775670
Yes but an individual is free to adopt or not adopt whatever values they see fit. I agree values objectively exist, but again, which values you see as "valuable" is entirely subjective.

>>8772623
>>8772623
Marx get the fuck out.

>>8775696
I dont care for marx but I dont think he was a hedonist...

>>8775710
Meme went over your head.

K y'all I'll clear this shit up.
If everything has no objective value the abstract concept of truth also does not. Thus, unless you're actively masochistic, you can drop nihilism.

>>8775693
Well thanks for arguing even though you agree with me.
>which values you see as "valuable" is entirely subjective.
This is still wrong. Every conception of value you get is given to you by society. They objectively exist outside of your perception.

>>8775603
and why is that an objective benefit? Christians would defintely disagree

>>8775748
I think it's pretty fucking obvious how having a material advantage is objectively beneficial. How about you explain how you think it works?

>>8775744
>This is still wrong. Every conception of value you get is given to you by society. They objectively exist outside of your perception.
But not everyone agrees with values of their own society and adopts values from elsewhere, hence the phenomenon of counter culture. I might value equality, but racial supremists certainly dont. Youre free to pick your values

>>8775693

How can values qualify as an objective sort of knowledge if they have no rational relation to human experience? If a value is to fall within accordance with a certain principle: this value cannot be justified if it is built out of us qualifying it as a means to a pleasurable state of affairs as meaningful, insofar as application makes it pleasurable, because pleasure or phlegmatic ease of circumstances is not rational in any way, nor is any other emotion. They are constructed from ludicrous and often times fallible sense experience, which we can confirm is not the same quantifier in very similar moral agents because they might have more elaborate or profound sensitivity to a certain state. There seem to be no values in nature at all; they must be constructed through reason alone

>>8775761
>Youre free to pick your values
That doesn't make them subjective

>>8775696
No.

>>8775758
Christianity, and to a lesser extent other ascetic ideologies, believe that material disadvantage is good because it leads to spirituals benefits.

Objectivity is boring, why bother? Live subjectively, that will help you find a better meaning than nihilism, which denies purpose altogether.

>>8775798
Slave morality

>>8775798
"Material advantage" doesn't mean having more money or whatever, I mean having a cohesive system of values, like Christianity, gives you the real-world benefit of not having to worry about what happens after you die, or what the reason for existence is .That's a material benefit because it reduces anxiety and allows you to operate more efficiently.

>>8775768
What does this mean in laymans terms?

>>8775828

Pain doesn't relate to knowledge apart from being able to tell us that something appears to be painful to ourselves, so we can't make it into rules to avoid that pain

>>8775835

And then say that those rules are a true kind of knowledge and not just randomly assembled gobbledygook

Life without God is unbearable.

Really makes you think.

>>8774833
lmao what a faggot

>>8775814
But worrying is an evolved mechanism for survival. So the more you worry the better, right?

>>8775861
Survival of your genes and personal interests are very different things.

There are people with three ex wives and a half dozen kids who are evolutionarily successful but completely miserable people.

>>8775864
yeah but which one is objectively better and why?

You know what I would find the cruellest torture? If there was an afterlife. Any afterlife, good or bad. When I die, I want there to be no further consciousness. I am very tired.

>>8775893
Youre implying tiredness might even be a state in an afterlife. Some ideas of the afterlife are so abstract and unimaginable that they imply you completely abandon human senitments such as "tired" or "sad" altogether.

>>8775870
I would argue that since genes are not sentient the well-being of the individual comes first.

>>8775956

Can you explain how sentience is a valuable moral asset from the ground up using only logic?

>>8776006
No, logic is ultimately self-defeating nonsense.

>>8775956
You'd 'argue'? So is it objective or not?

>>8773517
What

>>8775908
The overwhelming feeling of weariness is an intrinsic part of who I am, though. Were I without it, I might as well be someone else entirely. Although if we're abandoning human sentiments entirely, then I may as well be something else entirely and what does it matter?

>>8776326
>then I may as well be something else entirely
Yes, it could be that conciousness survives but you die

>why does it matter
Are you implying the survival of conciousness after death isnt significant?

>>8771567
Dude you can begin to have faith without taking a leap, there are logical philosphical arguments for the existence of god. If you began from childhood indroctinated into religion than you will have a difficult time contributing to philosophical discussion since you will always claim that god exists, without an argument as too why. Notice how every famous theological philosopher tried to prove the existence of god? Its a very important girst step.

>>8776096
Objective/subjective is a false dichotomy.

>>8775667
Eh, isn't it a means to an end?
Like, in the end Nietzsche was an existentialist?
Kinda like this: if life has no meaning give it yourself, live the way you want life to be lived or just do whatever: in the end it (doesn't) matter.

>>8775667
Nihilism is just scepticism that has lost its patience.

Quietism is the true endgame.

>>8776581
I think the idea behind the leap of faith was to abandon rational thought? As in, you choose to believe without relying on the need for proof or anything - and that would be true faith.

>>8776700
those who know don't talk, those who talk don't know..

You'll get over it.

Personally I am glad I came to nihilism at a young age; it meant the inevitable existential crisis didn't have a significant impact on my work and studies.

>>8771524
read ecclesiastes, then read the new testament, then read kierkegaard

>>8774432
this

>>8774401
Sure, if you're nonwhite.

>>8771524
>is a Nihilist
>cares enough to make a 4chan post
>cares enough to eat
>cares enough to breathe
>doesn't just cease to exist

You're not a nihilist famalam

Basically all "nihilists" are regular teenagers who go through regular "teen angst", beleive me children i was there a few years ago, thought nothing mattered, but it does. For anyone who wants to get out of the hole of nihilism, I recommend you read Ayn Rand, it will make you reborn. Heil Rand!

>>8776771
then realize all of that was shit and nihilism is in fact correct.

>>8776807
>they don't think it matter
>but it do

>>8776813
*tips fedora*

The Bible is the only truth. If you disagree you look like this.

>>8776813
Ecclesiastes is the first nihilistic writing ya funckik dingus.

>>8776807
>Ayn Rand
HAHAHA, good one.

>>8776848
it's okay, he knows best, after all everyone is an expert on the bible until they actually read it

>>8774268
What is wrong with weed?

>>8771524
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Wessel_Zapffe#Philosophy

Pick your poison.

>>8777014
This Zapffe guy is really neat
Thanks anon

Is the logical conclusion to nihilism suicide? Can I be a nihilist if I believe that life is worth living and that morality and values arent arbitrary? I dont think morals are transcendent and entirely objective, but I dont think theyre simply "cultural constructs".

>>8777109
>Is the logical conclusion to nihilism suicide?
An action can't logically follow from the belief that there is no belief that legitimately calls to action.

>>8777109
Also, how would you guys define nihilism? Becuase it seems like quite a few different definitions have been used throughout this thread

>>8777109
>Can I be a nihilist if I believe that life is worth living
Yes

>and that morality and values arent arbitrary?
wtf no, the literal definition is 'the rejection of all religious and moral principles'

Also I'm pretty curious as to how you can believe
>I dont think morals are transcendent and entirely objective, but I dont think theyre simply "cultural constructs".
without bursting into flame from the cognitive dissonance, my man

Probably just a dull issue of unexamined semantics

>>8777142
>Also I'm pretty curious as to how you can believe
>>I dont think morals are transcendent and entirely objective, but I dont think theyre simply "cultural constructs".
>without bursting into flame from the cognitive dissonance, my man
I dont think morality is granted by any god or supernatural spooky stuff, but I believe there are correct answers to moral questions. Perhaps those answers are complicated and up for a lot of debate, but theyre not subjective

>>8777180
So you say 'raping babies is objectively wrong'

But how do you justify that beyond the subjective 'muh feels' or 'the feels of other people?' without having to default to some spooky 'objective' thing outside of actual subjective human experience?

>>8777180
mr harris leave svp

>>8777222
Because things are measurably good or bad for humanity and society

>>8777252
>utility can be calculated

WEW

LAD

>>8777252
Nigga I asked 'how is this good or bad' and you answered 'because things are measurably good or bad'

That sort of circular reasoning isn't going to fly if you ever write a paper or something

>>8777285
>That sort of circular reasoning isn't going to fly if you ever write a paper or something
but academics have been doing that forever in disregard of the munchhausen trilemma

anon is not worse than them, just less obscurantist

x

>>8777294
shhh I like pretending my ivory tower of academia isn't a bunch of dull wankers blowing hot air to portray their opinions as facts

Well I don't like pretending but I get paid for it so I have to pretend to like pretending

>>8774391

Hey man, I'm a nihilist and I'm happy. Great even! The world is too beautiful in every way imaginable, even our suffering is beautiful. I hope I have enough time to die quickly, on my own terms, and not clinging to every remaining second. I hope, anyway.

If I ever lost sight of that I would die.

>>8777319
>even our suffering is beautiful.
t. person who has barely suffered

But I don't believe in nothing. It is just inconsequential what that actually is, whether it makes me happy to hurt someone, or to help them. Wanting to help those who help me is great though.

>>8777285
>>8777294
>if something cant be proven logically and rationally its wrong
t. enlightenment era thinkers

Maybe pure cold logic isnt an accurate world view. Some things are just self apparent and logic doesnt really justify them. (Emotions, qaulia, and subjective experiences exist yet theres no logical explenation to prove the existence of them).

>>8777353
>qaulia
qualia*

>>8777324

Yeah, my suffering is the most important suffering of all, you dingus! And yours is a game!

These are true and honest opinions of mine.

>>8777353
>x exists but you can't prove x exists

Anything goes at that point.

>>8777353
>Emotions, qaulia, and subjective experiences exist yet theres no logical explenation to prove the existence of them

except

you know

brain chemistry

>>8777362
>Anything goes at that point.
From an argumentative stand point then sure. But its true that the existence of some things is apparent in our subjective perceptions, but its literally impossible to make a logical argument proving the existence of qaulia

>>8777367
Brain Chemistry offers an explenantion for these experiences but doesnt prove they exist

as interesting as this conversation is, its not going to help op. you arent depressed bc nihilism or whatever, youre depressed because you most likely are under 23 or so, dont have a job, dont go to school and sit on your ass all day browsing 4chan and fapping to anime girls. no shit after a few years of this you will become depressed. go out and get a life or its never going to get any better no matter what you read.

>>8777375
>>Anything goes at that point.
>From an argumentative stand point then sure
That was poorly phrased. I meant that it defeats the purpose of arguments when logic isnt relevant, but good arguments and bad arguments dont have anything to do with reality. Theyre just means for convincing people of ideas

>>8777390
>tfw 24, have a job, went to college, and only get to browse 4chan once a week when I get internet at a friends house

haha jokes on you the nightmare never ends

>>8777014
>Zapffe

Zap. Fuff. - Zhapt. Flulf. Zapfffff

>>8777409
oh well in that case your brain chemistry is messed up. go get medicated for it. dont listen to the tinfoil hatters who say its bad and blah blah blah. or do, and be miserable. i dont care

>>8777367
>I can prove my perceptions are real by perceiving the perceptive devices that perceive the perceptive devices that perceive the perceptive devices that perceive. . . Ad infinitum

>>8771567
not everyone is built to believe stupid shit just because it's comforting. if you think there is a purpose to life, the burden of proof is on you, because everything about reality suggests otherwise.

>>8776581
>there are logical arguments for god
no there aren't

>>8777448
not everyone is a whiny pussy just because they are weak. if you think life has no purpose, the burden of proof is on you, because everything about reality suggests otherwise

>>8776848
>>8776985

>[ancient text] was like all about [modern philosophy]

Equating Ecclesiastes with nihilism a "babby's first" tier mistake, you may as well be quoting Waking Life right now. "All is vanity," surely that's exactly the same thing as nihilism! Except the Jew fuck that wrote this book BELIEVES THAT GOD EXISTS and is the JUDGE and STANDARD of all things. He isn't telling you that existence, morality, or anything else about life lacks value or purpose, you samefagging pseud, he's saying that PEOPLE have NO POWER in this world but GOD HAS ALL POWER. Man in fact has purpose, according to Ecclesiastes: to enjoy pleasures at a moderate pace and to act humbly in all things. Do you see how nihilism doesn't enter the text?
>b-b-but it's like sort of like it sort of
Don't even give me this weak bullshit. Don't post here again.

>>8777448
>he thinks he knows what reality is cause science
Thought has been evolving for hundreds of thousands years, and very recently atheism became popular because of the science, a field that is pretty damn new and is still barley developed and yet you feel condident enough to place your entire concept of what reality is in it. The assumptions one has to make to believe our current scientific understanding is a clear accurate view of reality is insane. Not to mention "hard" problems that science doesnt seem to be able to provide answers for

>>8777456
>because everything about reality suggests otherwise

The physical universe is based on laws inimical to morality and spirituality. Darwinianism shows us that this is a universe red in tooth and claw, hospitable only to brute forces acting upon each other. Examine the universe and you shall find not a single molecule of 'purpose.'

>>8777430

"Man is a tragic animal. Not because of his smallness, but because he is too well endowed. Man has longings and spiritual demands that reality cannot fulfill. We have expectations of a just and moral world. Man requires meaning in a meaningless world."

- "The last Messiah" Peter Wessel Zapffe


“You, most blessed and happiest among humans, may well consider those blessed and happiest who have departed this life before you, and thus you may consider it unlawful, indeed blasphemous, to speak anything ill or false of them, since they now have been transformed into a better and more refined nature. This thought is indeed so old that the one who first uttered it is no longer known; it has been passed down to us from eternity, and hence doubtless it is true. Moreover, you know what is so often said and passes for a trite expression. What is that, he asked? He answered: It is best not to be born at all; and next to that, it is better to die than to live; and this is confirmed even by divine testimony. Pertinently to this they say that Midas, after hunting, asked his captive Silenus somewhat urgently, what was the most desirable thing among humankind. At first he could offer no response, and was obstinately silent. At length, when Midas would not stop plaguing him, he erupted with these words, though very unwillingly: ‘you, seed of an evil genius and precarious offspring of hard fortune, whose life is but for a day, why do you compel me to tell you those things of which it is better you should remain ignorant? For he lives with the least worry who knows not his misfortune; but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature’s excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can.’ It is plain therefore, that he declared the condition of the dead to be better than that of the living.”

–Aristotle, Eudemus (354 BCE), surviving fragment quoted in Plutarch, Moralia, Consolatio ad Apollonium, sec. xxvii (1st cen. CE)(S.H. transl.)

"For there to be art, for there to be any aesthetic doing and seeing, one physiological precondition is indispensable: Rausch. Rausch must first have enhanced the excitability of the whole machine: else there is no art.” Nietzsche

Learn Zaprff. It so good for culture sponging passive nihilistics emanaters. Especially all the good good fun use of happy Distraction, happy Anchoring, happy Isolation, and just-so-so Sublimation.

>>8777460

Good post, but please relax.

>>8776456
Yes. May as well download your brain into a computer, just to be certain there will be consciousness, especially if you're having any doubts about something else happening. It's still consciousness, once they get that technology up and running, right? It doesn't matter if everything that makes you implicity you is stripped away in the process.

Of course consciousness after death isn't significant.

>>8777478
>Darwinianism shows us that this is a universe red in tooth and claw, hospitable only to brute forces acting upon each other.
And what does that have to with morality or spirituality? The point of morals isnt that if you follow them the universe will be perfectly kind to you ans everything will be hunky dory. You have an edgy highschoolers interpertation of religion. God is portrayed as sometimes ruthless petty or even cruel in the bible. In fact the bible says humanity is corrupt and portrays nature as deceptive (the snake that fooled adam and eve). No one ever promised being a good person will get you good things. Morality is about character, there are good characters in the world and bad ones, and the bad ones will certainly outnumber the good ones and do harm to them. You choose which you want to be

>>8777478
>purpose isnt a material so it doesnt exist
>thinking theres antything "rational" or "intellectual" about being a pathalogical materialist

>>8777509
>>8777579
Wow your inane cultural constructs and poor spelling really convinced me of the objective existence of 'purpose'

>>8777590
>you spell bad so your arguments are thus invalid :p

>>8777595
When the argument is literally, LITERALLY, 'But you didn't prove that purpose DOESN'T exist so therefore it does exist haha nihilism btfo forever' your argument has invalidated itself and all I can do for an idiot like you is point out bad spelling.

>>8777610
>When the argument is literally, LITERALLY, 'But you didn't prove that purpose DOESN'T exist so therefore it does exist haha nihilism btfo forever
My argument literally, LITERALLY, wasnt that. My arguments were
>darwanism doesnt refute morals or spirituality
>materialism is dumb
Your reading comprehension must be pretty fucking terrible

>>8777625
follow the reply chain to completion then kys

>>8777662
>everyone disagreeing with me must be the same person!
You are a fucking idiot. >>8777456 isnt me, and you still havent refuted my arguments

>>8777674
Since apparently you're too dumb to understand the point of following the reply chain, everything I said is refuting this line
>if you think there is a purpose to life, the burden of proof is on you, because everything about reality suggests otherwise.

I am refuting that reality suggests the existence of purpose.

You barging in and seizing on a fucking barely-relevant meme I copied from this image has basically jack shit to do with my argument.

But I'll humor you and refute your 'argument'
Morality and spirituality aren't refuted by darwinianism, that's true, that was the meme image.
But morality and spirituality are unfalsifiable cultural concepts that can't be refuted in the same way russel's teapot can't be refuted, and so there is no burden of proof to refute them.

Reality DOES suggest materialism, otherwise it wouldn't exist and science wouldn't work, so calling it dumb is just you being mad that your feels don't match up to reality.

>>8777697
>mfw I actually read that greentexted line wrong and was arguing this whole time against someone who shared my opinion
>mfw nobody notced and a bunch of fags jumped in to argue anyway

top kek, 4chan is truly the greatest place on earth

But that's a sign I need to go to bed

>>8777704
Oh wait, nvm, there was a
>not everyone is a whiny pussy just because they are weak. if you think life has no purpose, the burden of proof is on you, because everything about reality suggests otherwise

following, I'm as smart as I thought :^)

wew, this is what happens when you do philosophical flamewars at 8 in the morning

>>8777109
Only mental suicide.

>>8777222
You just "Kant."

>>8777697
>Reality DOES suggest materialism, otherwise it wouldn't exist and science wouldn't work
Not really. Reality doesnt have to be strictly material for science to work, and I think our completely personal internal experiences is proof not everything is material. You cant materialize interior experience itself.

As far as morals, you can just argue they are spooks, but its still in your best intrest to have a value and moral structure. Whether or not theyre objective doesnt really matter in the end, I guess if they are youll find out when you die

>>8777697
You realize that image is making fun of your position, right?

>>8776713
Thats bullshit

>>8771524
If death is better and inevitably assured, why worry when one's supreme reward is guaranteed? What can you lose? What is there left to struggle to win?

Your quickness to assume a label is suggestive, but you're not a nihilist. More of an inbetween-bitch-boy.

>>8776587
That is your basic argument? Its fucking shit m8

>>8777319
You're not a nihilist, you're just too stupid to realize you have a commited ideological position or to read the entirety of my post

>>8778213
>or to read the entirety of my post
Lmao, try making a coherent post first. Literally read your own shit, it isn't even English you dumb motherfucker.

>>8774391
>The people you are talking about are basically just athiest hedonists who fail to understand that their are concious and unconcious ideologies.

>>8775170

Zizek why are you shitposting on /lit/?

>Furthermore, psychoanalysis shares with Buddhism the insistence that there is no Self as a substantive agent of psychic life.. the Self is the fetishized illusion of a substantial core of subjectivity where, in reality, there is nothing. This is why, for Buddhism, the point is not to discover one’s “true Self;’ but to accept that there is no such thing, that the “Self” as such is an illusion, an imposture. - Zizek, 'Less Than Nothing', p. 129

>>8778211
Burden of proof lies with the discriminator, mate. First you have to establish a difference between the objective and the subjective, the world and the self.

>>8778915
Objective: things that are true regardless of what you believe of them
Subjective: things that truth depends on what you believe about them

World: everything
Self: a specific individual part of the everything

>>8771524
I guess some people can handle the nihilist redpill and some can't.

>>8777319
>>8777342

Does that building still exist?

>>8778926
>what is mereological nihilism