/lit/ - Literature

>>8756197
Stupidity

Trolling.

>>8756197
I think the only word there that interests me is degeneracy, because I think it is a very real thing and yet I don't why I am repulsed by it. The left has conditioned me to believe that degeneracy does not exist at all, but does that ring true when every society has some form of aversion to degenerate acts?

>>8756197
Ideology.

Most ideologies function exactly in this way, from Christianity to Marxism.

>>8756197
I hope you don't mind my response is in the form of an all encompassing ideological figure:

Fallacious.

>>8756197
>What do you call this kind of thinking where complexity is reduced to all-encompassing ideological figures?
You shouldn't ask here. I would say your answer lies in linguistics, sociology, anthropology and psychology and a combination of those.

>>8756197
>What do you call this kind of thinking where complexity is reduced to all-encompassing ideological figures?

Ideology

>>8756197
FACILE

Ignoring the true complexities of an issue; superficial

SPECIOUS

Superficially plausible, but actually wrong. Misleading in appearance.

GLIB

(of words or a speaker) fluent but insincere and shallow.

>>8756251
No one asked for a fucking thesaurus search pseud

Adherence to dogmatic ideologies allows for the individual to rely on the thinking of others, rather than doing its own.

>>8756197
>take the redpill
It's surprising how many people that say this on 4chan and have never actually watched The Matrix or even know that it is where the phrase originates. Orwell's Death of Language at work.

>>8756265
>rather than doing its own.

Ideology at its purest

>>8756197
Complexity is a subjective concept

>>8756251
Was Frasier a racist show?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfVdkhvQX6g

>>8756269
Yes, that's my point. Then it plays out as being a football team supporter, you just need to cheer on in everything they do and boo the opposing team.

>>8756197
Spooks

>>8756273
But the point is you can't simply think on your own, the very fact we have to think through language means we're always subject to the framing of others and our ideological history

>>8756271
this show is so comfy

Simple ideas that capture something meaningful but are also polarising are extremely potent memetically. On the internet this only accelerates.

Here's a reddit tier video that explains it reasonably well.

>>8756197
>implying you aren't doing the same thing with this post

>>8756277
Yes, but relying on a sole ideology, without good reason is ridiculous. You can't do all the thinking, and don't need to, that's why human knowledge continues to expand, right? It builds over itself. But you are in charge of judging the thinking of others and deciding what makes most sense to you. Adhering to an ideology, a lot of times leads to people not judging by themselves anymore and simply adopting and defending anything the ideology (or worst, its senior members) proposes.

>>8756277
>you can't simply think on your own
yes you can. you're majorly spooked.

>>8756229
What do you want to qualify as degeneracy?

>>8756293
if he starts thinking on his on own because you tell him to think on his own, then his thinking is based off of you.

>>8756271
I like the bit where he imitates his black woman producer and says "massa"

I love it when people unironically use the term cultural marxism without realizing, that they are using goebbels' rhetoric.

>>8756290
You're proposing that all ideologies are compromising, but you can use compromised ideologies to see that your ideology is compromised to get to a point where you are not compromised in your thinking.

Its a nonsense circular argument, its like saying you should be able to see better if you wear two pairs of broken glasses.

>>8756298
no thats stupid. just because some(most) people are perpetually used to doing what somebody tells them to do doesn't mean they are doing anything based on what someone told them to.
they are doing it completely on their own even though they might be too dumb to figure that out.

>>8756308
You don't use compromised ideologies to see yours is compromised. You simply reject any dogma and judge what different ideologies propose.

>>8756197
Desperate denial-fueled search for some sense in a world which rejected you before you even realized it

>>8756307
>that they are using goebbels' rhetoric.
oohhhh noooooo! he wubba nahtzee!

>>8756197
/pol/ack here. I think buzzwords like 'cultural marxism' or 'cuck' do have some value. Fear and disgust are amongst the most primal human emotions and with good reason, they are animal emotions meant to warn us of inmediate threats to our existence. Political correctness teaches us to look the other way, to tolerate faggot parades, race mixing, transgenderism, burkas, 'diversity'. But the 'redpill' exposes these as threats, kinda like the glasses in 'They Live'. Even if the Frankfurt School didn't come up with it, even if there's no Jewish conspiracy, 'cultural marxism' does describe something that's actually happening. The destruction of the West. And I believe the West is good. We should save the West

>>8756340
How do you determine what is dogma? How do you judge what different ideologies propose? Judge in what sense?

When you criticize fascism you're going to criticize it from a perspective, the perspective of a Liberal Humanist, a Marxist, an Unorthodox Fascist so on.
There are no pure critiques

>>8756197
SPOOKS

>>8756401
Huntington believes it is the process in which America and subsections of Europe are leaving western culture and forming a new one, a process that is neither good nor bad from a neutral point, just interesting.

"Multiculturalism" is just an infant global-culture with no precedents except MAYBE panhellenic culture in the 2nd and 1st centuries.

>>8756401
pol users are exclusively rejects with nothing going on in their life so they need to attach their anger somewhere.
they'd get angrier at the blackie who gives them a funny look on the street than the whitey who fucked their girlfriend. it's hilarious when they use the word cuck because you know they're so obsessed with masculinity and race that without the redpill they'd probably be jerking off to black-on-white cuck porn.

>>8756405
Dogmas are claims without a base on evidence. To reject dogmatic knowledge, you ask for evidence or basis for every claim presented to you.
Your own judgement of said evidence is more or less biased and you're doomed to fail in some things; but it's better than simply accepting everything presented to you by an ideology.
We should be eclectic.

>>8756268
I literally don't know a man between the ages of 18 and 40 who hasn't watched The Matrix. Women are generally much more dismissive of it.

>>8756268
I think ZOG punished the wachowskies with trannification because they revealed too many redpill truths in their movies

>>8756428
>Projecting this hard
Jesus Anon, calm down.

>>8756405
Judge in the sense of determining what makes most sense to you, according to the evidence and arguments presented. Of course, your own intelligence is bound to fail, but that's a biological constraint.

>>8756455
Oh great so we have a positivist here.

So what happens when you ask a /pol/tard to show evidence for his claim that blacks and jews should be gassed and he provides a mountain of citations and graphs?
Do you go through each one to come to a definitive conclusion that blacks are equal to whites?

If you're not a /pol/tard yourself I know the anwer is no, you reject the claim essentially a priori based on your other ideological backgrounds

>>8756307

You're right.

The terms they should be using are moral/cultural relativism and Gramscianism.

>>8756464
>gets triggered and projects his rage
lol pol.

>>8756405
How do you acquire said perspective in the first place, then? Is it simply by claiming "I'm a marxist now"? Or should it be by judging Marxism and seeing if it makes sense to you?
Besides, it's possible that some claims of Marxism make sense to you; but rarely will you agree with everything an ideology or philosophy proposes, so, why call yourself a marxist? Why must we use labels that restrain our thinking? It's possible to have lean to the left in some issues and to the right on others (talking of politics). To adopt one ideology for everything is usually the result of laziness.

>>8756488
>lol

>>8756197
the people who said "ideology" are correct

ideology is about making everything in the world conform with your pre-existing paradigm

to many people the world is huge, scary, and complex and they feel like they need to hold on to their identity tightly or else they will get swept away

>>8756494
you have to laugh through others too?
lol.

>Humans are special, magical creatures, full of complex cosmic dreams and bottomless depth of ideas and creativity. Humans aren't just dumb apes who learned to control nature since their ape brain grew a bit larger by an evolutionary mistake. I'm unique, please love me!
What do you call this kind of thinking?

>>8756405
There's an inconmesurable gap between some ideologies that goes beyond simple disagreement about facts. Fascists, far leftists and liberals have contradictory ideas about what humans are around which they base their whole worldview. I don't like fascism precisely because it embodies finitude, it's suicidal animality disguised as tribal mysticism.

>>8756490
> Why must we use labels that restrain our thinking?

Why not?
There is no inherent reason to believe the points at which we diverge from an ideology hold any more merit than where we do not. If it is a good ideology perhaps it is better you review that position of divergence and correct it back in line. Who knows

>>8756502
This I absolutely agree with which is why the positivist position of "Just fact check bro" is laughable.

>>8756197
Mythologizing

>>8756475
I do not reject any claims a priori. But you pay more attention to some claims based on the evidence you already have. I wouldn't pay much attention to a Flat Earth society member, because I have first hand evidence that the Earth is round, for instance.
I also have good reasons to assume that there are no "races" that hold councils and pass referendums to decide what to do as a whole "race". The difference between "races" are of an statistical nature, and therefore not reason enough to do any discrimination.
Nonetheless, if the evidence you said existed and was good evidence, meaning peer reviewed and from veritable sources, then I would consider what it means; but I wouldn't take immediately the "should gas them" stance, since that's deriving an ought from an is.

>>8756401
>Fear and disgust are amongst the most primal human emotions and with good reason, they are animal emotions meant to warn us of inmediate threats to our existence.

animal emotions? so you're saying that you can't conquer fear or disgust? like, come on. im sure there were things that you were scared of as a child that you are no longer scared of. knowledge and courage can overcome fear sometimes, don't you think?

>Political correctness teaches us to look the other way
ok but maybe there is something other than, one one hand, political correctness, and on the other, hateful oppression. i don't mean this in a feel-good "we are all one" way, just that there have to be other alternatives to try.

>The destruction of the West. And I believe the West is good. We should save the West
the West is good for the West but it has been pretty bad for a lot of other people. why not try to figure out a way that there can be something that is good for the people who like the West as well as the people who are fighting the West? getting defensive and militant just makes the other side more defensive, and more militant.

>>8756520
So you're saying if the evidence was convincing enough you'd be in favour of ethnic cleansing

>>8756507
Said gap is the result of poor knowledge of the human mind. No facts available.

>>8756501
it's called not being stupid although a bit overexcited.

>>8756494
lol

>>8756529
Why do you presuppose this, what knowledge do we require?

>>8756197
Before I was friendless, prospectless, lonely, resigned to a life deprived of romantic love, and self-loathing.
Then I took the redpill and realized that the only reason that that's the case is because of a conspiracy against me and IN REALITY I am inherently superior to 99% of people because of my race, my sex, and my beliefs.

I now realize that I am very special and inherently valuable. Why would that be a bad thing? I have become proud of being a redpilled man.

>>8756528
Yes. Evidence that proved without a doubt that ethnic cleansing would prevent humanity to perish, for instance. Or other very extreme cases.
But, said evidence is very improbable to exist. Evidence to what, exactly? One can only imagine so in very fantastic hypothetic cases, as my example.

>>8756545
Oh I see, so you have no moral objection to mass murder in of itself? Once the end justifies the means

>>8756197

>thinks in terms of "complexity"
>hasn't realized everything is monads
>his brain is too small to derive governing general principles

reddit

>>8756539
Knowledge of how the human mind works and how it varies among individuals. Maybe said knowledge is impossible to acquire. For instance, both communism and capitalism rely in some assumptions about the human mind. In simple terms communism requires minds that accept the impossibility of raising above others in a lot of different terms, and capitalism requires minds generous enough to help people incapable of prospering completely on their own (by various reasons) by own volition. We don't have enough knowledge of the human mind to make any of those assumptions; therefore they fail.

>>8756307

What's wrong with that?

>>8756549
If the murder of one million people prevents the murder of a hundred million people, I rather take the first one. Sadly, but surely.
Although, extremely solid evidence that the first one would prevent the second would be required; that's rarely the case.

>>8756578
/lit/ is generally adverse to National Socialism, they haven't taken the redpill yet, white brother. Stay here and join the battle against cultural marxism to ensure that white genocide doesn't come to fruition

Deus fucking Vult

>>8756307
those people are neonazis

this is a compliment to them

>>8756574
>In simple terms communism requires minds that accept the impossibility of raising above others in a lot of different terms, and capitalism requires minds generous enough to help people incapable of prospering completely on their own (by various reasons) by own volition. We don't have enough knowledge of the human mind to make any of those assumptions; therefore they fail.

And this is coming from someone who claimed its possible to escape ideology.

Have a nice day friend, I hope you'll be someone worth talking to in the future

>tfw this board used to be 99% smug leftist and it's now 80% right wing and 20% butthurt leftist

>>8756602
When I say communism and capitalism, I'm referring to the textbook versions, if you will. Then you have different branches and interpretations, that try to solve the problems presented to the original propositions. But to present said solutions, you need to be able to criticize the original ideology and judge it. Of course it's possible to escape specific ideologies. Usually by ignoring the labels and taking ideas by their own value.

>>8756621
Hail Victory!

>>8756621
>tfw /lit/ used to be 90% traditional aestheticists and Catholics and it's now 80% reddit and 20% ironic /pol/iticians

>>8756635
We're not ironic. We're here to save the white race

>>8756593
>deus vult

Get that jewish bullshit out of here.

>>8756229
It's vanity and empty hedonism that repulse you, you dip.

>>8756648
Sure

>>8756716
Okay, I hate /pol/ as much as the next guy, but the Young Turks are fucking shit.

Why bother examining it? We see enough /pol/ everyday here, giving them attention just legitimizes their existence here. It's so fucking boring seeing them around everywhere. Every thread, the same fucking arguements.

Do these /pol/ fucks realize that we hate them not necessarily because of their politics, but because they're fucking buzz kills?

>>8756722
Which is why I included them to trigger idiots

>>8756307
I love it when people unironically use the term fascist without realizing, that they are using Stalin's rhetoric.

>>8756197
Green text

>>8756763
I love it when retards try to say something clever

It's part of divide and conquer control tactic

>>8756197
armchair sociology

>>8756593
>national """"""""""socialism"""""""""""

>>8756593
b-but the free market

>>8757013
makes you think

>>8756229
I'm interested in this as well.

>>8756297
Not that anon (obviously), but I'll see if i can think of a few. Mass rates of obesity, mental illness, incredibly poor education, health, and nutrition among people the working class. McDonlds and Walmart. Just all these people who can't seem to function in society, and I'm not placing blame on these individuals, just observing.

I might have the definition of defeneracy totally wrong here, just trying to start a discussion.

>>8756593
We're genociding/cucking ourselves, dude. We're the number one fans of genocide, as a race.

thinking

>>8756271
it was a stupid unfunny show

>>8756297
Functional illiteracy, for example.

/lit/ of all places should know so many people don't read anymore.

>>8756197
I'm seriously considering getting off the internet completely and stop talking to people in order to prevent those endless stupid retardations to get into my mind. It's unbearable. I don't fucking care about white nationalists vs crazy stupid sjws and muslim fanatics and trump and left or right and redpill and all those memes everywhere and everyone being so fucking stupid just stop this crap and enjoy a good book without fighting all day and killing people you fuckers leave me alone

>>8757190
...you might want to man. Take a couple months off, this website is demonstrably bad for your mental health.

If you have some friends go spend time w them.

>>8756197
You see this reductionist thinking on 4chan all the time. Meme arrows are almost always used to satirically reduce some idea or concept to some sort of strawman anon can beat down.

It's a lazy way to think and argue, but it's effective for the most part because it's infectious and therefore memetic. You don't only see it on 4chan, the MSM has been doing it much longer. Truth is you can unpack each one of those terms and you will find a lot to think about. You can't just dismiss these reductive terms without unpacking the whole thing which takes a lot of time an effort. So naturally instead of discussing ideas we exchange codified insults. For example, anyone who uses the term "Chad" or "Stacy" gets called a "sexist", which can result in being called a "cuck", who is then informed of their "misogyny", and so on.

>>8756806
>armchair sociology
I think you mean ITT: armchair sociology.
Anyway, language can be used to distinquish ingroup vs outgroup members.

>>8756456
Well most people who post on /pol/ or /r9k/ are under the age of 18 so that explains it

>>8756244
Fuck off, those don't have boards

>>8756197
>What do you call this kind of thinking where complexity is reduced to all-encompassing ideological figures?

It's a combination of factors, not a single encompassing mindset.

On one hand, you have people who feel threatened by the resurgence of civil rights groups like BLM. This is called psychological reactance. Trump supporters believe groups like BLM are trying to suppress the liberties of the common white male and take them down a class, so they start doing the exact opposite of what BLM wants - i.e. electing an unqualified president based only on the fact that his non-PC campaign rhetoric might offend minorities.

And on the other hand, you have people who are literally mentally ill and believe everything associated with liberal politics is a conspiracy. Given the lack of quality mental healthcare here in the U.S., there's no shortage of garden variety nutters to go around. Although to be fair, there's a degree of mental illness within the political left as well.

Then you have people who are raised to follow an insular cultural mindset, like you'd see in the South. Even though these people might be well below the poverty belt and couldn't possibly benefit from any of Trump's fiscal policies, voting Republican is the only option to them, unless they want to be alienated from their families and respective communities.

>>8756522
Did man, having inborn fear of the dark, forever surrender himself to live in darkness? Did Man overcome his fear of wild beasts and vermin, did man accept his fate was to be mauled by dogs and eaten by rats? No. Man invented fire and vanquished darkness. Man slew wild beasts and exterminated vermin. And so I believe Man has now to vanquish Marxism and purge degeneracy from the earth

>>8756307
>without realizing
yeah sure buddy

>>8757275
>Fuck off, those don't have boards
I know. 4chan is great for casual discussion, but if you seriously want to know something you should go to Reddit. The science subreddits, non-science subreddits are just like this; casual discussion but without any sense of humor and with the addition of a lot of mental jerking off.

>>8757368
>if you seriously want to know something you should go to Reddit
or he could try reading a book about it and spare himself the autism

>>8756197
not being able to reduce complex historical/social factors into generalizable ideas is a sign of autism and a sign that you should have been a history major and a biographer.

its a waste of a great mind to study the trees rather than the forest.

>>8756197
to be fair, the last three are major themes of modern literature (well, cuckoldry is older obviously). and the first lot seem to mainly be updated versions of the stock characters of the commedia dell'arte, even a suddenly bowie fan now he's dead im/mu/grant should have recognised pierrot.
tl;dr- panto

>>8757395
>redpiller detected

>>8757331
Buddy, I don't think you know what Marxism is...

>>8757299
>Although to be fair, there's a degree of mental illness within the political left as well.

First, I would like to see a source on that. Second, even if that is true, does that make what they say illegitimate? The way you and many other people use mental illness as a way to remove agency is morally reprehensible.


If you look at any community and rationalize anything you might disagree with as a result of mental illness, instead of a result of a moral deficiency, you should really reevaluate your rationale. If you look at a group that you disagree with and see that the fault isn't in their morals, then why do you disagree? There is this huge liberal pandering to white supremacists, Nazis, and other rightists in the name of centrism and unity in the west that doesn't recognize the ramifications of those actions.

>>8757445
Leftism is a mental illness for cucks

>>8757415
keep masturbating over the gender dynamic of 17th century master-servant relationships in Tunisia if you want

>>8756197
I call it language.