/lit/ - Literature

>i dont like thing

>>8711468
>nobody like thing

>>8711466
If you're on 4chan and you have an ideology beyond 'i like anime' you're a disgusting newfag who needs to leave tbqh

>>8711466
for me it's christian anarchism, the ultimate form of political thought

>>8711483
I thought like this until I read Tolstoy

>>8711486
I could get behind this

/lit/ officially Tolstoyan? Pretty patrish

>>8711466
We've already got dominant ideologies.

It's Stirner and >>8711486, which is interesting. In truth they are reconcilable.

I vote for Aristotelian virtues and teleologies

>>8711501
Since when has christian anarchism been popular on /lit/? I've literally never seen a thread about it.

plus Stirner's more of a meme response, the idea of /lit/'s ideology has always been to be a more substantial meme project, with people investing huge amounts of time and effort into defending systems even if they don't actually believe in them just because why not, just like we did with catholicism and marxism

>>8711537
You haven't been looking well.

Stirner's the meme. Embrace it. It is a virtuous ideology.

the only /pol/ posts I've seen was that obnoxious ironic shitposter who would pull out all the /pol/ terms he could

/pol/ doesn't read anyway so I really don't see how this board's been overrun


as for ideology i nominate anarcho fascism

>>8711466
Where to start with christian anarchism

Reading list?

Flowchart?

>>8711559
Egoistic nationalism. With an emphasis on personal faith.

>>8711559
>anarcho-fascism
This is the most beautifully contrarian thing I've ever heard. If someone can explain how this would actually work, I'd be up as fuck for this

>>8711571
I'll take a crack at it.
The strength of nationalistic belief promotes total voluntary unity of a nation's people behind a strong leader and strict organisation in times of war. In times of peace they resign to normal anarchy.
nation ≠ state.

>>8711571
Anarchism based on violence. Every man his own rifle. A people's shared heritage binds them, and allows them to live together peacefully. Martial honour allows them to preserve their individual yet inextricably collective rights. Might makes right, of course. It is only by throwing the people into fire that we can forge them into freedom.
>>8711585
Pleb.

>>8711585
This is kinda reliant on having only one political state of affairs existing at the one time. It'd be more interesting to have them coexisting though, but maybe that's impossible. Anarcho-nationalism's probably more achievable.

>>8711599
>a people's shared heritage binds them, and allows them to live together peacefully
(X) doubt

>>8711599
Call me a pleb will you!?
Just you wait until I start making anarchyball memes of this!

Let's go full Catholic pls.

Gnosticism is the worst of all religions. It's literally Satan's religion

>hurr durr the creator of the world is evil, we must rebel against him and assert our own divinity

/x/ is the Gnostic board. The appalling thing about Gnostics is that there system has an awful consistency to it. If I tell a Gnostic that they're being mislead by the devil, they just tell me I'm one of the demiurge's archons sent to keep them tied to this world and is Creator.

>>8711571
Somalia but with cool uniforms.

>>8711649
But we've dooooone Catholicism

We can't go back

I like the overarching concept of Gnosticism, but the specifics that have been formed over the years are junior-high, sci-fi levels of dumb.

/lit/ is an aristotelean board

>>8711680
>/lit/ an "aristotlean board
>not a platonic eutopia

>>8711466
You can't wear an ideology like a new jacket you bought from H&M.

The only viable ideology for our age is some sort of deep ecology anti-civilisation ecofascism.

>>8711694
yes you can faggot you just do it ironically until you take it seriously

this is 4chan man

Sado-anarchism

>>8711699

Okay! Stoicism it is!

>>8711486
Is that a variation of the /ck/ McChicken meme I'm looking at?

>>8711466
Communistic Catholic Jacobins

Deleuzo-Guattarianism

Hear ye, hear ye! We now convene on the matter of this boards consistency and general adhesion to a common religious and/or political ideology, for which all may freely meme, stereotype, and otherwise generalize on their own accord. During proceedings, we will nominate and dispute our respective inputs on the matter, as well as decide on an informal ideology of which we dub "lit."
Whoever wins gets a golden star and a free train ride to Austria.

>>8711466
Next cunt to get dubs gets to decide

>>8711862
Rolling for christian anarchism

>>8711866
And we got a winner

>>8711866
*reads bible angrily while listening to johnny hobo and the freight trains*

>>8711466
>We have to find a new official board ideology, one that requires people to be patrician and well-read to defend, like the good old days.
Militant aestheticism

>>8711466
gnosticism is a meme
plotinian neoplatonism is the way to go

>>8711888
indeed we do

>>8711905
Militant christian anarchist aestheticism

Who's up for it lads?

You can't just choose an ideology, what's wrong with this board.

>>8711954
Its but a meme dippo

Pagan environmentalism.

Let's make saving the planet cool.

>>8711946
>Militant christian anarchist aestheticism
cool, but only if catholic.

>>8711946
And Tolstoy, peace be upon him, shall be our prophet.

But I'm not giving up fucking.

>>8711982
Already, we have a split within our ranks!

>>8711758
Absolutely yes.

>>8711466
guys

I have the perfect ideology:

It's called "My diary," desu

>>8711946
This desu

>>8711946
Yea, verily

>>8711466
If not Zizekian post-Marxist trolls then what's the point?

So long as /pol/ is ascendant we could at least be the well-read, edgy anti-/pol/.

>>8712072
Is this shopped?

This board has, is, and always will be ideologically aligned with discordianism. Even subsequent refutations to my comment, previous refutations, my own refutation (im wrong) and my own projection of this comment validate this.

>>8711758
I saw De Maîstre for a second in there. I was disappointed.

>>8711466
We are Post Sincere Zizekian Marxism

It has always been so

>>8712242
no but (responding to myself) I think to understand this board you really need to read Mcluhans medium is the message.

>>8711537
Is this actually true? I've wondered if some things which seem to be supported on /lit/ (philosophers, books etc) are only done so through ironic context but never thought it'd be true. How can I ever know if anyone on this board is genuine or not? The whole thing is extremely childish if its true

>>8711486

shit i just wiki'd this, exactly what i've been feeling lately. except not necessarily christian.

>>8711946
I'm ready to meme this into being.

GNOSTICS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE GET OFF MY BOARD

NEOPLATONISM IS THE ONLY TRUE WAY

NEOPLATONIST HEGELIAN ZIZEKIAN POST-MARXIST ANARCHISM NOW!

>>8712139
No Zizek competes in photo contests for East European magazines.

>>8711649
Gnosticism removes guilt from the equation of redemption, and offers an answer as to why evil exists. It is a seductive religion for these reasons. The early erasure of Gnostic sects (e.g. Valentinians) reflects badly on the then emerging institutional Christianity.

As I see it, the essential Gnostic principles, of redemption through knowledge, cultivating the soul for the next life, being aware of the transience of material things, and the more communal rather than clerical emphasis, offers us a universal Christian religion that coheres with modern values while still holding onto the essential sacraments and traditions (of marriage, baptism, anointing.)

This all predated Roman Catholism, which is a political and pagan construct.

Of course, I am willing to hear others out.

>>8712364
Plotinian Neoplatonism offers everything you offered except without metaphysical retardation, a lack of any reason to be good in this life, and the Christian meme rituals that you don't need.

>>8712370
My understanding of the Greeks is limited to Plato and Socrates. From my reading I see an overlap in their values and of Gnostic Christianity, particularly in the emphasis of seeking knowledge and preparing the soul for death.

Doing good and selfless is deeds is part of looking after the soul, which is reason enough.

>>8711466
Why isn't being apolitical an option?

>>8712382
The main criticism neoplatonists have of Gnosticism is their idea that the demiurge is evil and that the material world is a prison.

To Plotinus, it is not the material world that is evil, but merely our concern for it.

To Plotinus, the true place of inner wisdom in which our soul truly belongs is always within us, to be found through contemplation and wisdom. To Plotinus, there is no place like home for the soul.

His last words were "I am striving to return what is divine in me to the divine in all." The material world is a good place and one part of creation, and it as well as our inner selves are a reflection of this good, to understand all of this as well as one can, to prepare oneself to receive wisdom and reflect the good, that is the task of the Neoplatonist.

"
“Withdraw into yourself and look. And if you do not find yourself beautiful yet, act as does the creator of a statue that is to be made beautiful: he cuts away here, he smoothes there, he makes this line lighter, this other purer, until a lovely face has grown upon his work. So do you also: cut away all that is excessive, straighten all that is crooked, bring light to all that is overcast, labour to make all one glow of beauty and never cease chiselling your statue, until there shall shine out on you from it the godlike splendour of virtue, until you shall see the perfect goodness surely established in the stainless shrine.”

The gnostic worldview, of an evil material world overseen by a mad god, is less metaphysically sound and also does not bring about a very healthy mindset.

>>8711466
i don't understand why the literature board can't be traditionalists. Reading is an anti-modern act and we spend our time revering the great works of the past.

>>8712360
>Start here
>Kant, Hegel, and Hölderlin
lol

If ordered better this could be a cool reading list though. Lots of good stuff.

>>8712385
Epicurean apoliticism will always be the truly /lit/ choice.

>>8712385
because all art makes statements
explicitly or otherwise

>>8712420
Yes. *All* art makes some kind of statement. If we have some sort of ideological guiding philosophy then how are we to be able to discuss *all* art (or in this case literature)?

>>8712410
I had a sense of Plotinus' ideas - of course, the physical world can be beautiful, and not everything in it should be shunned. For me it's a question of balance and moderation, rather than being an acetic.

His last words, as you relate them, speak of the return of a part of us (the soul, the divine spark, consciousness, the god/holy within us) to a commune with others.

It relates to an idea I have been thinking about, that the skull acts like a prison which isolates our souls and consciousness from others.

In any case, I'm convinced Plotinus is worth looking at. Hegel is another matter.

Achilles Cult

>>8711486
This desu

This thread is a good reminder that all the anons who sperg out about /pol/ leakage are entirely without an ideological core and merely want a fashionable but non-threatening ideology with just the right amount of edginess to distinguish themselves from John Oliver viewers.

The hostility towards any opposition to multiculturalism has little to do with morality and anti-racism so much as bourgeois status anxiety and feral animal hatred for the working class and any set of beliefs that aligns with their concerns. This is why any leftist who claims to be anything other than a center-left neoliberal is LARPing, and also why all right-wing fear mongering about Marxism is anachronistic. You can't hold that the proletarian is the revolutionary class that will overturn capitalism and simultaneously think proles are icky and evil for not wanting to be strangers in their own land or see their wives and daughters raped and murdered. There is literally no way for you to achieve socialism without the support of the working class, and you don't have any interest in trying to win back their support, and they don't have any interest in supporting people who are going to bring about the conditions for their demise, so what you're left with is a situation where the only conceivable way for you to effect political change is to vote for the cuddlier, fluffier neoliberal candidate and hope they deliver on a fraction of their lackluster promises. Good luck destroying capitalism by voting for capitalists.

4chan is an American imageboard, therefore our ideology has already been decided by popular vote.
Love it or leave it, libcucks.

>>8712535
>>8712539
lol u nevre read books

>>8712464
The words of Homer are 100% truth.

>>8712539
>our ideology has already been decided by popular vote.
>popular vote

no we really just need to somehow get rid of the bottom half of our posters and read more

>>8712535

You commit the Platonic fallacy by thinking there is an ideal form that is metaphysically "real", and the Platonic and Sophistic fallacy of believing there is a real world you can know outside of the narrative, or representation, you recursively have made your entire life.

Then you go on to think only that narrative that you and your friends corroborate is not only the only one that matters and that is useful to be believed, but the only one that can be held.

The "proles" you so richly deride can have their own narrative about their lives that works comfortably along side your complex, elitist, and to them worthless narrative without conflict, as long as your narrative is useful to be believed as well.

Everyone makes up their own story about the world and sees the world differently. The only reason we can corroborate anything is that we are in, of, and inseparable from the same world that determines if our separate stories are useful to be believed.

Workers are fully capable of living under a socialist narrative, or any narrative for that matter, as long as it is useful to be believed and fulfills their desires.

The problem is that the guy who swings the hammer "knows" hammers through his story of using one, but his manager only has a story made up by elves, and has his head too far up his ass to know that elves don't exist, and hammers don't work that way.

Life should work like hammers, not stories from elves, but if you are a worker and all you have are stories of hammers, it is hard to talk to the elf fuckers in a way they can hear you.

Maybe when socialism works like hammers then everyone will be able to hear, but it will never get there until you swing a hammer or two.

>>8712584
also obviously we just need to be crypto reactionary like ziz or baudrillard

>>8712535
This is the face of /pol/

homosexuality
worked for george bush

>>8711486
Thanks for bringing this political ideology to my attention. I thought Fascism was the closest ideology that entails a Christian State as long as said state is pushing the Christian ideology (any branch of Christianity) but I suppose I was wrong.

>>8712292
Well, some of the books/people /lit/ recommend are in fact only recommended ironically just for laughs but for the most part we're all serious. Some memes include : Gass, Pynchon, Stirner, Bukowski, Camus, Sartre, and starting with the Greeks.

>>8711563
This.
Can anyone answer this?

/lit/ has always been Dialectical Materialist Jewish Gnostics, with a dash of Cosmic Pessimism in the mold of the great master.

>>8712617
fap fap fap

>>8712760
Yes, No, Yes, Yes, No, Yes and a conditional Yes if they're urged to go beyond Homer.

>>8712760
>Bukowski

>>8712364
t. Protestant
You lads never give up do you?

>>8712539
He didn't win the popular vote though...

>>8712763
I was at a local bookshop and noticed that CoL49 was there so I decided to read the first few pages and I couldn't get past the first two before I realized that Pynchon was a more sophisticated Burroughs

>>8712764
>implying Bukowski isn't one of the best writers of the 20th century

Pessimism is the natural mindset of all well-read individuals.
Read more Kafka.

>>8712768
I don't think you get that Pynchon is a strong reading of Burroughs.

>>8712775
I disagree. Pessimism is never found in the mind of a well-read man of God.

>>8712782
>well-read
>religious

Maybe if you're well read in 4chan posts.

>>8712785
> well-read
> atheist
The same can be said for you.

>>8711563
>>8712762
The Wikipedia article on Christian Anarchism states that Tolstoy's 'The Kingdom of God is Within You' is a good place to start. Other that I have no clue what else ought to be read.

>>8711491
Tolstoy was pretty stylish.

>>8711466
I thought /lit/ was the union of egoists that Stirner memed about? Are we not a beneficial anarchistic horizontal structure?

What about reddit athiesm and John Oliver style liberalism?

Nobody would see that coming

>>8711483
tfw you no longer have to read literature because Donald Trump is going to make anime real

>>8712974
*President Trump

>>8712755
>what is theocracy
also wtf is with all the Christians iTT?

>>8711946
Tolstoyan Christianity then? We unfortunately can't have GK Chesterton as a leader because his views are too denominational.

>>8711466

I love Catholics.

>>8711466

Anarchism. I'm with the anarchists. And not gnosticism, that's too wishy-washy /x/

Mature anarchy isn't a rebellion against the system, but a recognition that my life is already a paradox against the system, and that the system has many flaws that can and should be exploited for my and my communes gain. Always, throughout all the millenia this is true.

/lit/ knows that gnosticism isn't a religion, its mysticism.

/lit/ is satanist

>>8712985
tolstoyan christian anarchism probably seconded.
chesterton too denominational as in taking the bible too literally?

>>8713014
ofc it is rebellion against the system. anarchism is a complete rejection of institutions like state, capital, church etc. what you describe is an machiavellian opportunist, not an anarchist.

this is also, where gk chesterton is wrong:
when he describes "the true anarchists" as "the rich", he reasons, that they dont abide by the law and exploit people for their own gain. however this isnt anarchism, as they use the state and state-capitalism to pursue their selfish ends. an anarchist musnt resort to such means/institutions. his main goal is the abolishment of institutionalized hierarchies.

>>8711466
i feel like even /lit/ will fall into that alt right meme

>>8711563
probably Jacques Ellul (1988) Anarchy and Christianity

>>8711654
.D:D:D

>>8711696
christian anarcho primitivism

probably the amish figured it out quite a while ago

>>8712242
so much yes

Prussian anarchism

>>8712292
This is a 4chan thing and is part of lurking more. Just be glad that Zettels Traum isn't totally worthless like those /fa/ sea salt bag things.

>>8712755
That's completely wrong and contradictory to both official teaching and theories of the most important thinkers.

/lit/ is a deist fascist state

>>8711946
Christians do not worship images. Aestheticism is pagan.

ITT: pure autism

>>8711466
Theoretical Wotanism is where it's at

>>8712539
Americans don't read books.

Our president is a literal poet.

/lit/ is an Irish board

>>8712787
>well-read
>equates non-religiousness to atheism

>>8713241
not a very good poet though.

>>8713259
don't make me post the "why cant atheists define athiesm" meme

>>8712360
how long would it take? I'm curios.

Let these be our lads

>>8713293
>not Aristotle

>there are people in this thread suggesting soemthing other than Christian anarchism
Face it faggots. Dubs don't lie. You lost and Tolstoy is our new meme leader.

>>8713042
>Zizek
>Anarchism

>Post-left Anarchy
>Agorism

What the fuck am I reading?

>>8713293
Who's bottom left?

>>8713378
Guénon

>>8713269
go ahead and post it if you think Im afraid

>>8713348
I hope you aren't suggesting Aristotle over Plato