/lit/ - Literature

>>8596395
saged and reported. you are fucking autistic.

Dark Souls is shit. It's loved because at the time there was a vacuum for challenging games (it's not that challenging btw). Because of the hype surrounding how "challenging" everyone neglected to face up to the fact that the game is fundamentally a piece of shit. Graphics, engine, bugs, optimization. Don't get me started on the "story" and the "lore". Good job asking /lit/, /v/ are retards about this shit.

>>8596400
>underage neo/v/ with less than 30 ban evades roleplays as a 4chan user using buzzwords.

>>8596415
I don't play videogames, and this is a literature board, chimp.

>>8596395
>>8596407
The games are pretty good but on /lit/ merits the series has always come off as an edglord trying to copy Team Ico.

From's earlier games have more interesting worldbuilding.

I only played the third one (and Demon's Souls fucking ages ago) but from what I could tell the player is stuck in some kind of purgatory realm/time loop, eternally attempting to link the flame (restart the sun?) until they decide to let it die either by quitting the game or choosing another ending. It's like a metaphor for letting go of the series or something. Say goodbye to the fire, we're moving on to another IP.

/lit/ approved games?

Why do all the games that nerds hype up as great examples of "video game storytelling" all turn out to be low-tier genre shit? What ones do hold up to hype?

>>8596395
I like the souls series because I'm edgy as fuck and I like the idea of a 'gritty fantasy', with no bright coloured goblins and dwarfs and shit. But if you start searching for some serious depth, I would advise you to disengage. Miyazaki made the game not for any deep philosophical doctrine, but rather to create a rich and diverse universe, full of shit that's sick as fuck.

>>8596576
>low-tier genre shit
that's because video games are not capable of anything high-brow.
But anyway Pathologic is interesting. My favourite game is Katamari Damacy though and that has nothing to do with story or writing I think, can't really remember desu.

>>8596395
>Ds1 very clearly states "shit sucks and then you die."
How the fuck is it possible to misread Dark Souls this badly.
>>8596456
>>8596582
You're only slightly better. Dark Souls is sad, not edgy.
>>8596576
They're unused to good literature, so they have no idea what it is. But not all of those games are bad; Planescape, for example.

>>8596583
KatDam has a great story you noodle.

This is the thing: there are many e/lit/e games, but most of them are not famous for it at all. Uplink and One Finger Death Punch, for example, or King of Dragon Pass and Dwarf Fortress.

>>8596576
Pynchon praised Kojima and Final Fantasy, take that as you will.

>>8596395
I started playing it once, but it was just a bad game.
The writing was awful, Sanderson writes like Joyce in comparison, the graphics were brown and boring, it lagged and had awful optimisation, the lore was edgy and essentially cannot appeal as anything more than dumb entertainment to anyone who isn't either retarded or a teenager.

>>8596584
come on, the souls series is pretty edgy man. I still like it though

>>8596583
But i mean is it really difficult to conceive of a high-brow video game? After all, for thousands of years, realistic narratives were lowbrow and narratives of fantasy high brow. Video games will never produce a good realistic artwork, but if they began to take cues from classical, epic narratives-I'm thinking Iliad, odyssey, paradise lost-then couldn't they become high brow? After all, Achilles with his ridiculous strength and that nigga with the spear that's eleven cubits long (I.e totally impractical for a normal human being) are not a million miles away from what a video game character is required to be like for the narrative to function (absurdly strong, better than other humans-basically the classic hero)

What are your thoughts on Final Fantasy Tactics, /v/?

>>8596613
fucking freudian slip. I meant /lit/ god damnit

Play a real literary video game like metal gear solid or shin megami tensei you fucking nerd

>>8596622
does final fantasy count as /lit/? if so, which ones?

if not, why?

>>8596603

Alpha Centauri is art.

>>8596603
>But i mean is it really difficult to conceive of a high-brow video game?
Honestly, yeah.
Video games aren't suitable to tell a story because you must have gameplay, otherwise, what's the point?
Gameplay will dilute the story and the characters to the point where it becomes the dominant element, and for a game to be good in the first place, gameplay must be good.
Being fantastical is not really important, it's just a superficial aesthetic to carry the meaning in contemporary fantastic lit.
>>8596626
FFVII was dogshit.

>>8596599
Explain.

You seem to think "melancholic" means "edgy". It doesn't. The game's about finding meaning in meaningless hopelessness. That's not edgy.
>>8596629
>Gameplay will dilute the story and the characters
This is the most retarded comment I have read this day. Gameplay IS the story.

I hope you're a newfag just trying to fit in.

>>8596576
>looking for "video game storytelling"
Do you look for storytelling in architecture and abstract sculpture as well?
Video games are about systems mastery, not story telling.

>>8596593
*Pynchon's son

>>8596629
>FFVII was dogshit.
That doesn't answer my question.

>>8596626
>...only a sound ambience, growing slowly louder, that Maxine recognizes from a thousand train and bus stations and airports, and the smoothly cross-dawning image of an interior whose detail, for a moment breathtakingly, is far in advance of anything she's seen on the gaming platforms Ziggy and his friends tend to use, flaring beyond the basic videogame brown of the time into the full color spectrum of very early morning just before dawn, polygons finely smoothed to all but continuous curves, the rendering, modeling, and shadows, blending and blur, handled elegantly, even with ... could you call it genius? Making Final Fantasy X, anyway, look like an Etch A Sketch. A framed lucid dream, it approaches, and wraps Maxine, and strangely without panic she submits…

>>8596634
>Gameplay IS the story.
This is what narrativistfags actually believe
go to bed campster

>>8596634
>Gameplay is the story

No, no it isn't. Gameplay doesn't tell a story at all.
Building a base to build units isn't a story.
Neither is collecting items.
Neither is the action.
What games have a gameplay based story?
And yes, Dark Souls is edgy. Edgy is essentially the "meaningless hopelessness" for shallow teenagers.
That's why Beckett isn't edgy when he does that and Dark Souls is.

>>8596650
Are you talking about that ttRPG theory?

>>8596652
>No, no it isn't. Gameplay doesn't tell a story at all.
But it does. It is the most fundamental way of telling a story in a game.
>Building a base to build units isn't a story.
Of course it is, within its context &c.
>What games have a gameplay based story?
Glad you asked.

OFDP, Uplink, Dominions 4, Dark Souls, Papers Please, Dwarf Fortress, Doom, and way too many more for me to list.

You are aware, I hope, that "story" does not mean "plot".

>Edgy is essentially the "meaningless hopelessness" for shallow teenagers.
So you agree that Dark Souls isn't edgy?

This is why I am calling you retarded.

>>8596661
Why are you trying so hard to stretch into making games "about" story?

>>8596666
Why are you trying so hard to stretch out of it?

You don't think reading makes you...special, do you?

>>8596661
>But it does. It is the most fundamental way of telling a story in a game.
Is that why all games have shit tier stories and writing? Because if that's why it is so, we agree.
>OFDP, Uplink, Dominions 4, Dark Souls, Papers Please, Dwarf Fortress, Doom, and way too many more for me to list.
So really, gameplay is the basis for a story that is in all cases either unimportant or just shit?
>You are aware, I hope, that "story" does not mean "plot".
Yes it does, even if it's minimal. Defabularisation just shifts the focus from outer to inner events.
>So you agree that Dark Souls isn't edgy?
It's just about as edgy as you can get.
>This is why I am calling you retarded.
That's why you unironically think Dark Souls has a great story and couldn't tell Sanderson apart from Peake.

>>8596670
Before I respond, please roughly define for me what you mean by "story," as distinguished from plot

>>8596671
>Yes it does
We have confirmed that you are a pleb, then. You literally read for the plot.

>>8596674
Literary shit. Story is the catchall term used for games, meant to distinguish from other elements like graphics and mechanics (though in truth it is obvious that all of them can be the same, even if they often are not).

>>8596584
At this point Planescape is no longer a game it's-it's a fucking book. But the way it is told, the way the world is described making you feel like you're in a hellhole with no hope in sight. Where the game actually focuses on morality being a focys in the game etc. The DS series will never compare.

FFXII is the most /lit/ game I know desu.

>>8596680
The DS is to Planescape what Kafka is to Tolstoi.

So, you aren't wrong.

>>8596683
I mean, just listen to this shit guys: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQNWafc6_9k&feature=share

>>8596680
>>8596684
Although it's pretty clear that DS is infinitely superior aesthetically, if not in general.

All Souls games are trash. You feel like a mongoloid trying to swing a sledgehammer underwater from start to finish. Glacial combat peppered with brain-dead mechanics like backstabbing and relying on invincibility frames for dodging rather than physically avoiding the pixels that make up the enemies' weapons.

>reduce evasion to simple timing
>reduce attacking to rock 'em sock 'em anime
>deep combat

>>8596635
His son has good taste then. What does /lit/ think of Silent Hill?

>>8596688
Funny how this turned to a autistic /v/ thread
Not saying you are wrong...

>>8596698
SL2 is another example of story through gameplay. It is therefore Approved.

I am objectively right in everything I do.

>>8596688
nice buzzwords faggot.
>you feel like a mogoloid
>glacial combat
>brain-dead mechanics
>rock em sock em anime
You can always tell who actually understood the game they played when they rely on vague shit like this.

>>8596713
He's memeing you dip.

>>8596671
Damn you are retarded.

>>8596711
Look let's talk about how shit games have become story-wise... I mean you know what's the difference between them... Wich one has better graphics nothing else and frankly this is how I see the game industry going in the future. Story/Plot - ha, it's non-existent. I'm not trying to be a little pussy complaning about how older games were objectively better. But well I am and they were.

>>8596724
Damn, you unironically think Dark Souls has an amazing story.

What is the Western Canon of video games?

Why do people talk about the Western Canon in lit they talk about just the GOATs in games, regardless of east vs. west?
Is eastern lit shit or are western games shit?

>>8596735
Eh I mean both sides are now focusing to appease a wider audience so from that you can say that the ladder is true

>>8596733
Not that guy, but damn you are retarded.

>>8596735
The western canon exists because western culture was distinct from eastern culture for most of its history.

But videogames come from the point in history in which everyone could respond to everyone else's work. The existence of weebs proves there's no vidya western canon.
>>8596727
What is this.

>>8596766
oh yeah that makes sense

The only /lit/ game is Patagon

>>8597027
I meant Patapon, dang it

>>8596576
the only /lit/ accepted game is dwarf fortress. faggot.

>>8596407
DkS is the most difficult normie game. I heard people say Smaug and Ornstein were the most difficult bosses but I beat them first try. I'd like to seem them try to get the highest score on KOHCTPYKTOP. Doubt they could even figure out how to play Diemworlds or Aurora. I HATE NORMIES. Brainfuck Joust? No fucking way. Normies suck.

>>8597052
i'd like to see you beat OmegaRL without a cheat engine, bitch.

>>8596704
honestly I'm surprised, this thread seems to indicate that most people here have even more retarded and obnoxious opinions about games than /v/

>>8597052
Oh yeah, wow, that notoriously difficult game Aurora.

You're just like the DS normies.

>>8596635
Considering the vast majority of modern games have a narrative, ignoring story would be naive. That doesn't mean the story must be the focus nor does it mean every game must have a story, but it can be an essential aspect of the medium.

>>8596395
>Ds1 very clearly states "shit sucks and then you die."
How? The world implies a state of decay not really "everyone sucks, especially you". Even if it did, has Ds3 somehow not kept with this theme?

>tell me what the fucks goinf on
Well basically, there have been so many people linking the fire that the world is literally running out of energy to sustain itself. The only way to link the fire is bring together the ashes of previous glory seekers who hold even a monochrome of presence in the dying world i.e. the Lords of Cinder. Its pretty simple anon, what else are you confused about?

>>8596576
King of Dragon Pass, Pathologic and Dark Souls are all approved, although Dark Souls is defiantly genre shit.

>>8596407
>It's loved because at the time there was a vacuum for challenging games
Thats not at all why people have stuck with all this time. They like the lore, gameplay and multi-player. Everyone that isn't IGN knows that its not hard, it was just the Western marketing that hyped it that way.

>>8597081
Story is certainly not an essential aspect of the medium, and most games having a story isn't a reason to believe otherwise. Most games are shit, and most gamers are stupid. I don't take the majority opinion on this topic.

You can't say story is essential when so many of the classic games that we know are brilliant have little to no story, or a bad story. Tetris, Doom, Super Mario Bros., Street Fighter, Melee, Dark Souls.
Dark Souls has the best story out of those, but it is not in any way essential to its quality.

>>8596629
>Gameplay will dilute the story and the characters to the point where it becomes the dominant element, and for a game to be good in the first place, gameplay must be good.
That doesn't make sense. A game can have gameplay and a high brow story. One won't dilute the other, especially if its a game where the player makes their own story and/or the gameplay is integral to the story telling. But why would it be impossible to have, say, an adventure game with a high brow story?

>>8597128
>Dark Souls has the best story out of those, but it is not in any way essential to its quality
Were we playing the same game?

>>8597139
Yes. Dark Souls is great because of its mechanics, level design, enemy/boss design, and world design. Its story doesn't hurt, and it has a brilliant story, but it's not essential.

>>8597128
Plenty of films don't have a story but it'd be silly to dismiss film as a potential storytelling device.

>>8597172
Films aren't games. I could be convinced that films need stories more than games do, but it's clear to me that games don't need stories just as architecture or pastry chefing doesn't need stories.

>>8597128
For an example of a video game revolving around storytelling look at Firewatch. Even if you don't think it's a great narrative, it still shows that there's lots of potential for good storytelling in video gaming.

>>8597176
I never claimed games need stories. Plenty of the greatest games have none. I'm merely suggesting that video games are capable of effective and interesting storytelling.

>>8596576

>>8597183
Good story within a digital spacial simulation =/= good video game

>>8597190
Do you know what "essential" means?

>>8597183
tell me how it benefits from being a videogame.

>>8597200
Do you know what "can be" means?

>>8596593
He praised Kojima, but not Final Fantasy.

>>8597218
Interactivity of course. A sense of association or identity with the player controlled character. Alternative outcomes. There's still an enormous amount experiment with and to explore in video game storytelling, especially with the advent of virtual reality.

>>8597200
And if you're gonna be pedantic about the definition of game, look at Portal.

>>8597248
I'm not even being pedantic. It's just fact that a digital spatial simulation is not a game. People need to remember that games exist outside of video games, and that all simulations of space are not games.

Portal's story is not very important for its quality. It has an ingenious mechanic and good puzzles. It's an overrated game though, it's a bit too easy or at least never ramps up to truly interesting heights.
The story is mildly amusing but doesn't contribute that much to the game.

>>8597257
>I'm not even being pedantic. It's just fact that a digital spatial simulation is not a game. People need to remember that games exist outside of video games, and that all simulations of space are not games.
And it this isn't clear, consider that instruction booklets, compilations of poetry, non-ficition history books, philosophical treatises, and novels are all "books" but they aren't really the same artistic medium.

Similarly, Dear Esther and Dark Souls can be played on the same platform and is similar in terms of packaging and presentation, but that doesn't mean they're both games.

>>8597242
>association or identity with the player controlled character
if you need to hold a controller to identify with the character there's something wrong with you.
>alternative outcomes
what alternative outcomes are you talking about? as far as i remember all you could do was slightly alter the dialogues.

>>8597257
I'd strongly disagree, the story may be simple and quaint but that doesn't make it any less crucial to the experience. If the game was just a series of puzzles with no backstory it would lose nearly all its charm.

For another good example see Shadow of the Colossus.

>>8597270
I meant in general not that game specifically.

Actually controlling and making decisions for the character and actually seeing from their POV (especially in VR) is enormous for identifying with the character.

>>8597273
>I'd strongly disagree, the story may be simple and quaint but that doesn't make it any less crucial to the experience. If the game was just a series of puzzles with no backstory it would lose nearly all its charm.
It may lose its "charm' for you because you only care about stories, not games. However, the game itself would be just as good if not better, if the story were removed.

>For another good example see Shadow of the Colossus.

Again, it's good because of its mechanics. People talk about how deep the story is mostly because people are too ignorant to talk about game design. Even gaming enthusiasts simply lack the vocab, knowledge, and ability to think about games design carefully. They like it because of the game design, post-hoc they rationalize by praising the story.

>>8597276
>i meant in general
but i asked about firewatch specifically

>>8596395
If you still want a real answer, I'll give you one in like 30 minutes, lemme finish eating and reading

>>8597076
I never said it was difficult, did I?

>>8597314
You literally did.

>>8596576
Kentucky Route Zero.

FFO: magical realism, southern gothic.

>>8596395
>>8597305
Alright, here you go.
So, long ago, there was no flame. The dragons ruled over the world and subjugated humanity to the point where they were all forced to dwell beneath the surface of the world in complete darkness. Then, among that darkness, the first flame either appeared or was found. The flame was split apart by the first few humans who found it. Nito took the flame of Death, Quelaag, the witch of Izalith, took the flame of Life, Gwyn took the flame of Light. After everyone had thought it gone, separated into its three parts, the Furtive Pygmy took the Flame of Dark, smaller and weaker than all the others. With the power of the First Flame, the Lords of Flame challenged the dragons. Gwyn's Lightning Spears flayed the dragons' scales from their skin, Quelaag's host of pyromancers incinerated them to death, and Nito unleashed devastating plagues and pestilence that ravaged the dragons, unprotected by their scales. With that, the age of the lords began. Gwyn took his place as king, Nito went off to do his thing with Death and all, and Quelaag hers with Life.

Eventually, the first flame began to die out, as all flames do. Quelaag, in a desperate attempt to save the first flame, attempted to duplicate her flame of Life. She beefed it, hard, and so the power of chaos was unleashed upon Izalith, corrupting everything you see there into what it is now, creating demons and turning the witches into their grotesque forms. As the flames continued to die, a new threat began to emerge. The Furtive Pygmy, the lord of Dark who was forgotten until now, had been waiting for this. The weaker the other flames became, the stronger his grew. Lord Gwyn kindled the fire with his own body, allowing the flame to eat away at his humanity in exchange for prolonged light. To help with this, he created the Undead Curse and bestowed it on a ton of people. The curse made you immortal, but drained your humanity until there was nothing left, leaving you as what would be called 'Hollow'.

Here's where I'm sorta unsure.
I believe the flame of Dark rules over the abyss, and so the abyss began to encroach upon the world. In an attempt to stop it, the lords flooded New Londo. The Furtive Pygmy continued to grow in power as the other flames weakened.

Here's where I'm pretty sure again.
This is where you come in. There are tales of a chosen Undead that would escape from the Undead Asylum, ring the two bells at the top and bottom of the Undead Burg to open the doors to Sen's Fortress, which existed as a trial to prove your worth before entering the realm of the gods, Anor Londo. The Chosen Undead was to kill the Lords of Flame, gather their souls, and rekindle the First Flame. Such is your task. When you reach the end of the game, you have the choice to light the flame or simply leave, beginning what the Primordial Serpents call the "Age of Man".

Whether the Age of Man is actually good for man or not is very much ambiguous. (Continued a bit)

>>8596713
>>8597074

>unironically defending the souls games

>>8597442
You can see in DLC the land of Oolacile, where the Abyss had touched, i.e. the world without flame. The people there have been warped into horrifying monstrosities and hold no semblance of sanity. Would the same happen to the entire world if the flame died out? Dunno. Maybe this was a special case. Can you take the risk? Dunno, up to you.

That's about all I got, I think. I'm not omniscient regarding this baller game series, but I know a good amount.

Also, this was just the first game. I know a lot less about the second, a little less about the third.

>>8596576
Morrowind and everything written by Kirkbride.

>>8597442
You're missing a lot of important stuff, like the flame causing the dudes to arise, but I'm lazy so I'm just going to say you're missing stuff.

>>8597316
No, I didn't; can you provide proof of your assertion? I said "Doubt they could even figure out how to play Diemworlds or Aurora," which isn't literally "It's difficult" unless you're dismantled. The only game that I said was difficult was DkS but with the added qualifier of normie.

>>8597488
Of course that's literally "it's difficult". Do you not understand how implication works?

I mean this seriously: are you autistic? I would understand if you were.

>>8597486
Okay. Feel free to add to it.

>>8597495
"Doubt newborns can figure out how object permanence works." By this statement, am I literally saying object permanence is difficult?

>>8597052
>but I beat them first try
i bet you went strength build with shield.

>>8596652
>Building a base to build units doesn't tell a story
How you built the base can become the story
All the details;where you came from, why you chose to build the base, as well as any shortcomings, pitfalls, and workarounds will collectively tell you the origins of your base.

>neither is collecting items
One of the best things about dark souls is upon finding an item, that item's description might have a small detail about where the item came from or who used it and what it was used for. You wouldn't know about those small lore fragments that help build the story without picking up the items detailing them.
The Yhorm fight in dark souls 3 can only be accomplished with a weapon that you find in his possession. The story of an unbeatable giant holding the tool to his destruction is quite apparent there, you only have to use it to find that out.

If you don't think you can find a story from gameplay then you must either be thick or only playing for trophies/achievements, which is fine, everyone plays a game for different reasons.

>what games have a gameplay based story
Dwarf fortress tales fuel the internet. Even if the game is made from hieroglyphs, people can read or hear about something happening from there and understand and enjoy it.
The same thing could be said for a game like civilisation,
The Stanley Parable's story is based around your actions. The narrator describes your actions but what happens is ultimately up to you i.e:gameplay decides the story.
And as mentioned before, Dark Souls is about stumbling upon fragments of a story to form the larger picture. At the same time, you're playing story of a champion who, against all odds, must defeat the lords of the realm. It's the same as Hercules completing his trials.
Even bleeding minecraft-
>It was getting dark soon and I needed coal for my oven
>with my trusty scrappo dog beside me I went to look for some
>bingo! I found a decent vein nestled in the wall of a deep ravine
>on making my way over I heard that dreaded hissing sound
>The creeper's blast knocked me clear over into the canyon below
>my poor scrappo had been lost to the creeper, but by fate I landed in a pool of water, breaking my fall
>I pulled out my pickaxe and started digging
>upwards and onwards, by the time I had reached the surface it was already morning.

tldr;your actions make up the story, use your brain.

>>8597044
>pa ta pa ta pa ta PON

>>8597527
Sorcerer.

>>8597514
Well yeah. more difficult than newborns can handle anyway. Not that guy btw.

>>8597539
Yes, I'm implying "how to play "game"" is difficult by normie standards and not implying "game" is difficult.

>>8597514
For babies, sure.
>>8597554
They're the same you dumb fuck. Normies are normal -- they're the majority. They're what determines difficulty. And, as I said, they would not find Aurora difficult anyway. It's just got the shitty reputation DS and Dorf Fort have.

>>8597562
How something is is different from the something itself. To play is part mechanic outside the game itself. I'm not referring to the game at all but the manual.

>>8597575
What.

Mother 3 is a great game for story

>>8597594
lol Undertale too obvs

>>8597534
lmao

>>8597601

Nah, Undertale has glimmers of brilliance but it's story isn't all that.

Mother 3 has a great story and plot and uses pathos in a way only a game could (Like Fassad, whom you hate and have no actual control over, being the only way you can survive the desert in Chapter 3). It'd be difficult if not impossible to convey that kind of complex situation in a film or book without it feeling convoluted or having it lead to a positive change in character for the antagonist.

>>8597632
m8 you're the only person I've met who thinks the same way

>>8597287
>Again, it's good because of its mechanics
Key word is 'synesthesia', here's some good examples of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erkEvPRXIFI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGcEgr0KgS8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63qqyYQDqZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7lDHxiZmk4

>>8597637

That's fine.

>>8597645
as me

>>8597273
>>8597287
You're both dumb.

>>8597647

Oh, I see. Sweet

>>8596395
>There's no point in asking /v/
That's where this thread belongs.

DaS and BB particularly benefit from the videogame format, as they build worlds you explore and make sense of at your leisure, with limited hand holding. It demands some level of active hermeneutics to be a satisfying story, which is the mark of patrician entertainment.

>>8597750

This is the best way of looking at the story in this series of games. It's a great way to tell a tale in a video game.

>>8597442
A few corrections. I probably expressed some points wrong because english is not my native language, but anyway

>The dragons ruled over the world and subjugated humanity to the point where they were all forced to dwell beneath the surface of the world in complete darkness

There was no humanity before the flame. Actually there was no humanity until the Furtive Pygmy splits his soul to create humans, probably some time after the fight with the dragons or during it.

>The flame was split apart by the first few humans who found it.

They were not humans, they were pygmies. Humans have humanity (fragments of the dark soul), pygmies don't have anything.

>Quelaag, the witch of Izalith, took the flame of Life

u wot m8. Quelaag is one of Izalith's daughters, not the witch herself.

>Quelaag, in a desperate attempt to save the first flame, attempted to duplicate her flame of Life

Izalith tried to create a new First Flame using her Lord Soul, not duplicate it.

>Lord Gwyn kindled the fire with his own body, allowing the flame to eat away at his humanity in exchange for prolonged light.

Gwyn was a God, not a Human. Gods don't have humanity, the fuel for the First Flame was what was left of his Lord Soul (he gave one third to the Four Kings of New Londo and another one to Seath the Scaleless)

>To help with this, he created the Undead Curse and bestowed it on a ton of people. The curse made you immortal, but drained your humanity until there was nothing left, leaving you as what would be called 'Hollow'.

Gwyn didn't create the curse, Humans are unable to die due to their connection to the Dark Soul which is growing stronger, only each time they die they lose their souls and humanity and are one step closer to going back to their primitive state of being, a Pygmy. This is exclusive to humans so gods, witches and Nito aren't affected by it.

>I believe the flame of Dark rules over the abyss, and so the abyss began to encroach upon the world. In an attempt to stop it, the lords flooded New Londo. The Furtive Pygmy continued to grow in power as the other flames weakened.

This is true, but the Furtive Pygmy died a long time ago, the strength of Dark is something that comes naturally when the Flame starts to die out. It's a thing of balance.
I believe the Furtive Pygmy is Manus, that's why he is called the primeval man and the father of the Abyss. He was dead and had to be resurrected by the sorcerers of Oolacile, who tortured him to the point of twisting his own soul (humanity), that soul was so strong it twisted the ones from Oolacile citizens as well and that's why they became monsters just like Manus did.

This is all Dark Souls 1 stuff. I know nothing of Dark Souls 3 and don't really care about it, it's all fanfiction to me.

>>8597194 and >>8596395 I would say. I don't know if The Witcher 3 qualifies, but it definitely panders to us. There is a quest where you have to decide how to deal the followers of the in game version of Nietzsche.

Someone borrowed me dark souls once because I wanted to know what the fuss was about. It wasn't even difficult, the only times I was sure to die was when it pulled some trick I didn't see coming (enemies around corners, archers in high places, etc.).

>playing for plot

>>8597911
Also, the whole Faust thing.

>>8597118

>a monochrome of presence

ESLs and phone/tabletfags need to go and stay go, this is an English-language literature board for fuck's sake.

>>8597194
This game is so pretentious and self indulgent. It is allright at showing how video games are structured story wise, but it doesn't make something good out of what it is. The ideas are just presented in a dumb memey way. Even if this is fitting for the medium, I wish they were more fleshed out and develloped in a quicker way. It's tedious and boring.
Nothing has any impact so you can't be invested in what's happening. Even if this is due to the general concept. They could have added depth by making the player think of the role of art in his own life which would have gone very well especially because playthroughs are so short, so you wouldn't get too invested. they could use this lack of attachment to the videogame to tell something. The game just lacked pith.

>>8597118
Pinwheel tried to become immortal and fucked up. The gaping dragon did as well, and fucked up. Trap boy tried to create a beautiful city and it was a lie. The sisters tried to unfuck the first flame, but then they created the bed of chaos. Scythe girl tried to escape reality, and that didn't end well. Seathe just wanted to /lit/ and chill but then he ended up being all my twisted world.

Is balders gate 2 /lit/?

Even the worst written bosses of throne of baal are pretty gud, and it's really hard on even the lowest difficulty if you don't use ascended gear.

>>8597932
>borrowed me

Holy shit you're retarded. It's lend

>>8597534
lmao you used a wiki to find the easiest build to kill them with.

>>8596576
http://store.steampowered.com/app/241620/
If you like reading and rpgs, you'll like this :3

>>8597932
whoa dude you're so good at videogames i'm impressed

>/lit/
>video game thread
>130 fucking replies

>>8597932
So you found it easy except for when you found it hard?

>this whole thread

Please gtfo. Dark Souls is excellent and all of you are try hard pseuds, I wouldn't be surprised if all of you don't read and only know the right authors to name drop so you can pretend to be smart on the Internet.

>>8600507
that's funny, since dark souls is the try hard pseud trash of video games

>>8596395
The lore in DS is, on the broad level, actually quite simple. It goes into a lot of detail about people and places but it can be broadly summarized.

The first flame creates disparity. Light and Dark etc etc. Gwyn begins the age of the Gods. When it starts to fade he links his soul to the fire, sustaining the power of gods. But there is another power, the Abyss. I like to think of these two opposing forces as order and chaos.

The old powers want to maintain the status quo by gathering powerful souls and linking them to the fire. Others want to let the fire die and let new powers rule. With the dying of the fire things are changing. Old kingdoms are dying out, and sometimes the dead rise again.

The curse of the undead is never really explained. We know its tied to the dying of the flame but never exactly how or why.

DS1 is set at the first instance of linking the flame. Gwyn still sits at the kiln, indicating that noone else has succeeded in killing him and moving onto the flame. DS2 and 3 both occur far into the future after the flame has been linked many times. In DS3 especially its implied that things are really starting to fall apart and that the god's hold on power is ever more tenuous. They've been eaten or killed or fled. You're not wrong that the latter games are less cohesive, after the first one From has decided to keep the theme of 'rebirth' and life repeating itself in a cycle, which has lead to them trying to fit new worlds onto the old ones, and it just doesnt fit perfectly. This is why DS1, BB and Demons Souls are superior to me, they just feel more like real places rather than games.

>>8600507
Video games are dogshit m8

>>8596395

Fuck off, manchild. What the fuck is wrong with you faggots? This is a board for literature.

>>8596576
Wonderful 101 has some of the best dialogue writing of the genre. It does an incredible job of sticking to what its trying to emulate and not being too silly. On top of that, the English voice actor for Wonder Red has some of the best acting direction I've ever seen in a video game. On top of it being a fun and good game it's really enjoyable.

>>8600597
Meant to say it's story is really enjoyable. It does the whole trope thing without losing its identity. I guess what I mean is that it never tries to be something it's not.

Dark souls is literally the only good game I've played in years. I'm playing DOOM on ultra violence right now. It's pretty good, it's not 10/10,. like so mind blowingly amazing it gives me chills to think about, but it's fun. I just wish that I knew another really good game.

>>8600753
>I'm playing DOOM
the new doom, I should specify. Fuck, it's so annoying that they just called the new doom game doom, instead of doom 4 or something.

>>8597118
wrong. Everything in DS1-3 has happened before and will happen again. It's a cycle, as we're told countless times. DS1 and 2 take place in dying worlds, DS3 is set right at the very end, before the cycle starts over. The world is already dead.

>>8600522
>>8600582
What would you consider to be your favorite book at this point in time? I mean favorite as in don't just say Ulysses because you think you're supposed to but what book do you personally prefer above the others you've read?

>>8600914
The Inheritance Cycle if I'm being completely honest. I know it's not okay to like those books, but I loved the shit out of them.

>>8596395
/v/ here.

Watch this video and you'll understand why Dark Souls is a good game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV16ROaHVfo

Dark Souls will only be appreciated by people who actually know about games and regularly play them.

You don't know what the fucks going on because you're retarded and you didn't pay attention.

>>8596395
HEY GUYS VIDEO GAMES LMAO

>>8600507
/lit/ is casual, it'd be like asking /v/ what their favorite book was. You'll get answers like Captain Underpants.

>>8601004
good video, thanks for linking

>>8600933
>it's not OK to like those books

Only a fucking idiot thinks like this, don't fall for these shit memes you can like whatever the fuck you want. Sure that's pleb as fuck taste, but if that's the kind of shit you're gonna enjoy and read then embrace it.

>>8600914
Gravity's Rainbow. I'm not memeing, not pretending to get that sweet anonymous 4chan cred, I just thought it was fucking amazing.

>>8601047
GR
IJ
Demons

Which one should I read? I will read all of them

>>8601061
>Which one should I read? I will read all of them
I don't understand your question. Which one should you read first or what?
If that's what you're asking, I'd say Demons, even though I've yet to read it myself. It's the safest choice, it's a classic and not as obnoxiously long as the other two.
I'd also advise against reading IJ in case you are just starting out with """serious""" literature, since in my humble opinion it is far less essential than this board memes it to be.

>>8601090
Thanks

>>8596576
Chrono Trigger is a wonderful game and my favortire RPGs. Game Theory did an episode on how it retells the story of the bible, now, idk how lit that is but it definitely has/had an influence on the west and playing the game and then watching the video was astonishing.

>>8600552
Its explained in ds2. Gywn linking the bonfires (to feed off human souls) created the dark sign. Its referred to as the first sin (by humans).

>>8596627
You got that straight.

>>8598306
How do I piece that together without consulting the wiki or stumbling on every single rare item you need to not do something specific and obvious to get?

>>8599218
Great game.

>>8596395
Just watch the prepare to cry series on youtube. The game has a pretty extensive lore.

>>8596733
Also am not either of these folks but holy shit you are retarded

Can janitors please do their fucking job and delete this thread?

Sage

Bloodborne is the best Souls. The lore and settting is communicated with more subtlety and is also a bit more cohesive than Souls' mess of Berserk references. It tells you where to go and what to do a lot less, giving it a more organic feeling in terms of your role in the setting and how you 'solve' the mysteries present therein. You can easily beat Bloodborne without having any idea what you're doing except hunting beasts; but if you want to look there's a story a whole lot more interesting going on (and not even the Lovecraft stuff, which is just window dressing anyway).

DS is a very literal reading of Heraclitus

I think that video games as a totality are far too broad a category to be able to say anything useful about it. I think if we were to extend this to level broadness to literature we would have to include instruction manuals for VCR players, billboards, store signs etc. We need to break down video-games into large families before we can start talking intelligently about them.

An obvious category would be for lack of a better term sports/parlor games. If we take a broad spectrum of things like football, go fish, mahjong, chess, even solitaire we can see a few things in common. They have clearly defined rules that control the conduct of the players (or player) in their attempt to win the game with the win condition being clear. These games have at their heart a competitive element (even if it is competing alone against the game itself) where there are winners and losers. These games are also instanced. By this I mean there is a clear start and stopping point in a way that is absent from say children lost in an imaginary land.

This last think I think are important. This will sound strange in the context of the kinds of games I mentioned but by considering that this is leading to a comparison with video-games I think it needs to be said. There is no narrative integral to these kinds of games. They are mechanical/luck related and if somehow there was a narrative addition it would necessarily be superfluous even if it did add something to the game. It is easy to think of video-games that fall into this same category. Dota, Counter Strike, Tekken etc.

We don't tend to talk of games like solitaire as art. This does not diminish them. And I also think that certain families of video games are the same.

I won't go further trying to make categories. This is more a proof of concept.

>>8597045
patrician spotted