/lit/ - Literature

>>8583238
FART HARDER

>>8583238

>>8583252
Melville beats Joyce and makes it look easy.

>>8583280
>this is what burgers seriously tell themselves

>>8583238
ftfy

>>8583238

Put Tolstoy on the place of Joyce and maybe we might have a debate.

>>8583284
>he doesn't have the attention span to read Melville

>>8583297
Here we go

>>8583242
ftfy too

>>8583301
melville is one of my favorites actually, but
>Melville beats Joyce and makes it look easy.
just reeks of impotent burger rage and jealousy

>>8583305
Literally who?

>>8583307
>I disagree with someone so they must be jealous

>>8583284
>>8583307
>The Irish when they realized the great modernist novel was written 70 years before Ulysses

>>8583238
Fun Fact: James Joyce considered one of these writers to be his favourite.

>>8583328
just cause he was a narcissist doesn't mean we have to hold it against him desu

>>8583328
"Which book would you take to a deserted island?"

Joyce: "I would like to answer Dante, but the Englishman would get it because he's richer."

YOU ARE NOT EVEN TRYING.

>>8583332
Fuck.

>>8583351
Fuuuuuuuck.

Still Shakespeare, though.

>>8583313
>>8583305
>>8583297
literally the same writor

>>8583305
>>8583297
>>8583492

Oh some irrelevant frog meme, I thought it was a serious English writer I was not aware of

>>8583238

This man is the only writer who can face Shakespeare

>>8583533
tolstoy is so utter lacking that it's laughable of you to even mention him in the same breath

>>8583540
Holy...

>>8583238
When it comes to aesthetic writing I think the answer is quite clear.
But if it has to be between the two I'd say Joyce.

>>8583553
Forgot pic

>>8583321
Which novel of Melville's can be considered Modernist?

Joyce and Shakespeare were in some ways complete opposites; Joyce super-educated and 'academic' - brilliant but extremely calculated in an almost craftsmenlike way. Will was the natural genius with 'little latin and less greek'. Will's relatively lack of aducation is kind of inspiring to me - I'm not a scholar or anything but if an ordinary fella from Stratford can be a great writer, maybe I can too.

>>8583540
read him in Russian

>>8583637
>the shakespeare was stupid myth again

shakespeare's upper class (his family was not aristocratic, but were very wealthy) education at the local grammar school was better than the education most nobles of the court received.

>>8583614
What do you think?

https://chrisroutledge.co.uk/writing/moby-dick/
>Long before James Joyce turned a walk round Dublin into an epic journey, Melville made fantasy and myth out of heavy industry, drama and heroism out of hard work and plain existence. Like Joyce he did it using an unfamiliar structure of episode and accumulation. It is perhaps not surprising that Melville’s novel rose to its current high status in the 1920s; Moby Dick can be listed as one of the first great works of literary Modernism.

>>8583655
The Confidence-Man and Pierre are also good contenders.

What is it with autistic needs and ranking things that don't require ranking.

>>8583637
>Will was the natural genius with 'little latin and less greek'.
wrong

>>8583703
quantifying merit is aesthetic

>>8583722
no it's not

>>8583655
Only a bored American academic would ever make this claim.

>>8583972
And only a faggot would say this.

>>8583972
Not an argument. Either way, he's from the UK.

>>8583300
I second this. Love Joyce and you can make a serious case for him, but Tolstoy is Homeric in his greatness. This man took the novel and made it his own. We are as Tolstoyan as we are Shakespearean in our cultural build-up.

>>8583972
I didn't know the irish could get this salty.

>>8584033
It's funny, because Too-Cool-For-Schoolstoy hated Fat Willy Shakes.

>>8583722
It's the opposite.
In fact, it's not even ugly in an aesthetically pleasing way, it's just lopsided and mediocre.
Go back to your top ten lists, fag.

>>8584058
I wonder if Shakey would have hated Tolstoy.

having read neither, the obvious choice is shakespeare, just as a matter of notoriety. so many times has joyce been mentioned but unknown in conversation, but shakespeare is a household name. besides, isn't willy a playwrite? i know joyce wrote exiles or whatever, but can you really compare them on an equal footing?

>>8584125
>having read neither
Then shut up.

>>8584133
>your opinion is invalid cuz i say so
good job, friend.

>>8584082
>go back to your top ten lists
The ADD culture fostered by consumerism is aesthetic
>>8583908
Can you quantify that?

>>8584145
This. OP is obviously asking which one has the greatest mustache.

>>8584145
not him, but i think he may be objecting to your championing of shakespeare over joyce because he is better known. after all, aren't dan brown and steven king better known than the both of them

>>8584125
>having read neither,
>post doesn't stop there

>>8584160
naaah. shakespeare is better known than king for sure.
>>8584168
have you read exiles by joyce? no? then your opinion is invalid because i said so arbitrarily.

>>8584181
in one sense yes, in another not at all. how many people read Shakespeare compared to airport fiction writers. they might know a couple of famous Shakespeare quotes and remember doing Hamlet in high school but really Shakespeare is a nobody nowadays, especially compared to his cultural standing 50 years ago

>>8584192
well, let's pick something out there, remembering learning it in school. it's an interesting thing that shakespeare is taught to children to try to better their understanding of the literary and theatrical arts, i imagine the nigh universal acclaim he has is a key to his importance, to the point we entrust our children's minds to his works en masse, in an attempt to provide a path to an educated life. i dunno, i just gotta give it to shakespeare. but my opinion is just from the perspective of cultural impact.

>>8584181
I've read exiles by joyce and my opinion would be valid if I hadn't
you, on the other hand, have tiny balls hanging from your nose

>>8584249
i'll hang my tiny balled nose from your whorish earlobes, i'll hang your tiny balls from a noose, you punfir.

>>8584223
I understand the point you're making and it really is just a matter of opinion at the end of the day, but the real reason we teach shakespeare to our children is because that's the way it's been done for a very long time. people who were forced to read him, hate him most of the time.

>>8584280
well, tradition is as good a foundation to lean on as any, eh? hence start with the greeks, i suppose.

i wish cervantes would have written more. he might have been able to take the big W

>>8584297
Well, sure, but you started out from the position of exalting popular appeal over anything else, so really Joyce is a contender equal to Shakespeare, if we're disregarding the views of the majority.

>>8584192
Lol what? Shakespeare is more popular than ever.

>>8584378
I'd disagree. An interesting historical thing to look into which backs up my point is the feud between the Shakespearean actors Edwin Forrest and William Charles Macready in the nineteenth century and which social groups they represented.

>>8583238
>Joyce vs Shakefuckingspeare
well it sure as shit isn't the guy that only wrote four books, a handful of forgettable poetry, and a play that nobody cares about.

Joyce's influenced writers.
Shakespeare influenced nations.

>>8584375
i guess i'm trying to reform my position from mere democracy to determine the greater writer, sure, pure notoriety is obviously a poor way to judge the greatness of an artist, but maybe it's longevity associated with that, i don't fucking know, it's a discussion, i didn't intend to solve the question, just to stir the pot of conversation a bit. that guy saying stuff about influence is a good point, but is influence alone to claime superiority? what are the ground rules of what makes one artist superior over another? without that, we'll never determine who's better.

>>8583637
I didn't care for this post.

>>8584053
Ireland is surrounded by seawater, dipshit.

Is Tolstoy even the best Russian Author of all time?

isn't it generally considered that Pushkin was better?

>>8584125
why would you post on a literature board if you've never read anything by Shakespeare

>>8584558

Pushkin is regarded as the best poet, but not necessarily author overall, that belongs to Tolstoyevsky.

>>8584558
Tolstoy is the rational choice, Pushkin is the emotional choice.

>>8584576
what makes you think Tolstoy was the greater writer than Pushkin?

I'd say Shakespeare easily but the more I look into Finwake the more it seems like one of the greatest projects ever conceived by a man.

>>8583297
who is the dude on the left?

>>8584577
I don't particularly, I was typifying how they are regarded. People respect Tolstoy but love Pushkin.

>>8584579
Rabelais

>>8583238
SHAKESPEARE WINS

>>8584392
Judging authors based on influence is literally music journalism tier

>>8583238
I know the first guy is Hitler but who is the second guy?

>>8584084
I think Shakespeare would have reacted the same way to Tolstoy as Cioran did to Sartre.

>>8583238
WHO WON? WHO'S NEXT? YOU DECIDE! XDDD