/lit/ - Literature

>at the very least I'd like to know why.

well for one you're blogging about it on an anonymouse burmese carpentry imageboard

>taking a class taught by a nigger

I had a class where tweeting a line from the nights reading at the teacher was 10% of the grade. I ended up getting around an 85 in the class because I never tweeted, it was bull.

when i went to uni i was too shy to participate in discussions. got an A- in every class because of this.

>>8429828
He's white as snow

>>8429820
So justice would punish him, uphold the law, and supporting the safety of others? Or am I missing something here?

>>8429835
>le how do I reach these kids teacher

>>8429820
>discussing ideas with your peers

yeah good luck with that. There are like, maybe, 3 persons out of a close circle of 50 with which I can engage in a stimulating conversation with be it philosophy or politics, history, whatever.

I still love all those people though, it's just a shame none of them read

>>8429860
Exactly

Without justice, there is anarchy and chaos. Order comes from a third party enforcement of agreeable (well at least mostly agreeable) laws and mores of life in a given sovereign society.

Revenge can often go under the pretense of justice but is based more on self gratification than it is due process of law. That being said, the lines are often blurred between the two because the due process law can be used as a means to an end of revenge.

>>8429880
>Without justice, there is anarchy and chaos.
Why?
>Order comes from a third party enforcement of agreeable laws
Why do they have to be agreeable?

>>8429895
>Why

Because humans are inherently savage and animalistic. They require a strong hand to keep them from being destructive barbarians.

>Why do they have to be agreeable?

Maintaining society is a juggling act. Let the plebs run amok and fuck shit up and you end up with Somalia. If conditions, however, are so oppressive and non democratic that the average peasant feels he has no say, he will either destroy the establishment and create a new one (see: the French revolution, the American revolution) or will flee to a new country (refugees from Best Korea, Syria, Iran, Venezuela, ect)

>>8429914

>inherently
>require

These guys who think they 'know' Human Nature always make me laugh.

>>8429850
Not on the inside

>>8429914
So you would say that the only reason why you are not destructive is because of the powerful justice system? You would be animalistic if you knew you could get away with it?

>>8429935
I am basing my assertion off of the history of civilizations dating back 10,000 BC.

>>8429914
>Because humans are inherently savage and animalistic.
I don't agree with that.
>If conditions, however, are so oppressive and non democratic that the average peasant feels he has no say, he will either destroy the establishment and create a new one or will flee to a new country
The thing is, there have been countless of countries with oppressive and non-democratic rule. Consider that only a very small amount of those countries have had revolutions (France, Russia and America) and even then it's debatable if these revolutions were about getting rid of the so-called oppressors. As for citizens fleeing, well, the share of citizens that flee from the countries that you mention is rather small. You're basing your facts on uncommon events. You never hear about countries that didn't have a revolution or the citizens that haven't fled. Read 'Fooled by Randomness'.

>>8429914
>Because humans are inherently savage and animalistic. They require a strong hand to keep them from being destructive barbarians.
If this is true, then how did humanity persist long enough, sans law and order, in order to produce civilization in the first place? Wouldn't such a barbaric creature naturally extinguish itself?

>>8429946
Yes. Your assumption that humans are inherently altruistic goes against recorded history and the understanding of mammalian intelligence.

>>8429953
Tribes. The weak tribes got BTFO and the strong survived. Evolution.

>>8429955
I didn't mean to imply that. I meant to suggest that maybe other things aside from justice support safety. Think education, religion, common goals, etc.

>>8429967
Education and sharing common goals helps, but at the end of the day there is always that one troublesome fucker who wants to destroy, to be selfish. That's not to say that the ones who enforce the law are 100% altruistic either.

>>8429880
>Without justice, there is anarchy and chaos.
Not at all.

Honey, have you read about the cat revolution in the news? And the monkey stock market crash? And what about the zebra/tiger war?

Tl;dr human basic nature has no conception of selflessness of gratuitous violence.

Fuck off, you pseud, baka.

>>8429973
Notice how you went from inherent evil in everyone to always one evil.

>>8429984
Just because I don't act on my vices doesn't make me not inherently selfish. If I could get away with it, I would totally whip my dick out in public and ejaculate everywhere. Same thing applies with everyone. We have certain mechanisms of behavioral self control, but at our core our sense of self preservation overrides our morality.

>what about soldiers

Soldiers fight to protect there women and children, to fight for the system that protects them. Valor is a meme

>>8430001
their*

>>8429960
Humanity did not originate in tribal form; under your prescription, humanity would have wiped itself out before being capable of establishing basic societal orders beyond simple hunter-gatherer dynamics, i.e. tribes.

>>8429947
Where does your definition of justice goes when faced with potlach, then

>>8429983
That's fucking stupid. Animals don't have the intelligence to form a society as complex as human civilization. Apes and other certain mammals come close however

I'm willing to believe you if you can provide some IRL examples desu.

OP here. I have to go to the gym now. I really am enjoying this thread. If you guys could keep the discussion going while I'm gone that would be nice.

uni is a fucking meme, glad i dropped out

>>8430065
What are you doing now?

>>8430136
barista but I have a couple of novels and a screenplay in the works

thank God I'm not a corporate slave

>>8429880
Wow that a whole lot of spooks you have there anon

>>8430147
post a sample of your work m8, i will r8

>>8429914
>>8429914
>>8429914

Let me rephrase this statement.

Humans aren't inherently evil, but can be swayed very easily towards evil.

>>8430259

>evil

>>8430136
going to music school to become a slave to art

>>8430019
Well of course humans will go feral if justice stops happening, but it wouldn't be the natural man that would come out to do these things, it would be the civilized man who has gain a sense of ownership.

Man without ownership will never be violent or kind to gain things, because he has no need to do so.

That is why you don't see animal warfares, because they aren't civilized, as you say, as you just fucking said.

>>8429820
>today in class we are discussion and comparing justice, being a just person, and revenge
In what kind of class would you be discussing justice? If you want to have meaningful discussions on justice, go study law.
Don't you have some linguistic classes that are more meaningful than pointless discussions with your profs?
>t. English undergrad with a roomm8 studying law