/lit/ - Literature

>>8422551
Which country? Which left?

What?

>>8422555
>>8422558
left wing in general.
progressives in general.

>>8422551
Freedom of the individual over both the mass and the government.
Religion
Adherence to (mostly) good traditions

>>8422551

Their economic positions are largely untenable.
They believe in superficial rather than substantive programs as far as helping minorities, such as censorship, which actually upset people and do more harm than good
Gun control is ridiculous and won't stop crime. Only a lack of motive can stop crime. Economic reform would be the most effective criminal justice reform.
Overall, liberals compromise too much and don't go far enough when they are correct, and go too far too unflinchingly when they are incorrect, almost as if it's a principle of their psychology.

>>8422563
Wrong board man.

>>8422569
>describing a republican, not a conservative
Fuck off ameritard

>>8422582
>>8422569
fuck im really high and cant read.
I drank some water and read your post again and it was completely different.
wtf ambien
God i need to stop this
sorry

>>8422573
pol only cares about memes and never engage in political theory.

at least this board read books.

It's not right, which is the definition of being wrong.

>>8422563
Left wing just means that you are fiscally in favor of a government controlled markets and social handouts. Beyond that left wing positions vary greatly depending on the country you are talking about.

So you want to talk about communism / socialism vs. capitalism?

>>8422586
I value that you seek to engage in discussion, but these kinds of threads really don't belong here.

>>8422603
I'm really new.
I understand left wing as the guys who want to help poor people.

>>8422606
pol is a shithole only seeking masturbation.
maybe we can talk about the diferences between the left and the right.
isn't political theory also literature?

>>8422563
>>8422551
Wrong board.

Those who think it wrong are simply into authoritarians squeezing them into submission. A sort of socioeconomic S&M. They prefer to be deluded with all manner of spooks the way the little brother rebels at the thought that Santa isn't real. The past is the way they want to go. The poor dears.

my left or yours? stage left is kind of important; it's where the prompter is. stage right has its charms too, but burn the court not the garden, you know?

>>8422618
I thought you were a fascist

>>8422603
>>8422616
Left wing is about freedom from X
Balance of autonomy and community.
It's been a bumpy ride full of fakers on both sides though

>>8422618
>Says this thread doesn't belong here
>Proceeds to rattle off his own left-wing opinion
God, I love this board.

>>8422551
Wrong about what?

>>8422629
I am an anarchist.

Before that I identified as a "progressive liberal" but in 2007 was well aware Obama was going to sell out in the end.

>>8422634
from lurking pol I used to think traditions matters in terms of social cohesion, and then I'd agreed with right wingers.

but I'm watching a video of Richard D. Wolff, a marxist economics and his arguments seems better and more logical as to why we need to move away from capitalism into a better system.

of course I'm confused over both systems.

>>8422551

The economic calculation problem

>>8422616
>maybe we can talk about the diferences between the left and the right.

except that's never the real intention of these kinds of threads

>>8422616
>I'm really new.
>I understand left wing as the guys who want to help poor people.

Well you can't really discuss politics if you don't have a basic understanding of it.

And that definition is kind of a misnomer. Right wingers in america want to help poor people too, just not in the same way the left does. The left wants to help poor people by giving them handouts and redistribute wealth manually. Right wingers in america want to help poor people by giving them jobs and business opportunities and help the people who can't help themselves with voluntary charities. It's a different approach.

>>8422634
Right wingers in the US want freedom from government control.

>>8422641
pol maymays.

>>8422642
Are you also a tranny

>>8422652
here we go guyz

Type "a gentle introduction UR" into Google.
Read first link.
????
Wtf I hate leftism now

>>8422660
I think I remember the butterfly in some /lgbt/ threads
He can join Constantine in the ranks of 'tranny trips who ruin everything'

>>8422641
Was just gonna post this exact question.

>>8422585
I like this post, apology accepted.

>>8422664
Since my time lurking here, he seems to one of the few willing to provide substantial responses, regardless of whether I have disagreed with some of them

>>8422644
Absolutely we need to move away from capitalism.
I read a good book about the industrial revolution and felt like I was almost coming full circle in my sympathies for the reactionary right of those days. There's no reason real conservatives shouldn't be voting Green (in the US) as it would put them back in charge of their own plot of land to grow for the local communities.

>>8422678

>conservatives should vote for a radical policies because I don't understand the difference between being wanting to conserve our achievements and wanting a radical reversion to primitive times

>>8422678
are u the real butterfly

>>8422650
>Right wingers in the US want freedom from government control.
I know. It gets tricky in the US. There are plenty of liftwingers who feel the same, just as there are plenty of rightwingers who love their big government. Its a matter of corruption and classism.

>>8422652
No. A middle aged woman.
>>8422664
I hung out in a few lesgen threads. That's not supposed to be a tranny thread, though they all like to hang out there. (Lots of swm trolls too or course) I am lesbian.

>>8422682
I'm talking about actual conservatives, bae, not classical liberals, which is mostly what the GOP are made of now.

>>8422678
>>8422678
>Absolutely we need to move away from capitalism

Technology as we see it now allows a tangible realization away from the capitilist model. The error that Marx made, of course my understanding is still in its infancy, was that his predictions was too soon. It's only now in the hi-tech info age were are capable of implementing his theories

>>8422697
I think it's more the case of the types of control either wings prefer, but control nevertheless.

>>8422697

>I'm talking about actual conservatives
>>There's no reason real conservatives shouldn't be voting Green (i the US) as it would put them back in charge of their own plot of land to grow for the local communities

In what world is 'real conservatism' the promotion of a radical agrarian reversion? You seem to have been duped by the libertarian belief that conservatism is about selecting your favourite historical memes and then pretending that this is some how not just rationalism

you don't understand conservatism

>>8422708
>you don't understand conservatism

what's your defininition

>>8422697
>know. It gets tricky in the US.
It's the problem with a two party system, seemingly incompatible interest groups have to work together if they want a shot at changing things.

>Its a matter of corruption
Corruption is a problem in both parties. Lobbyist have a choke hold on big government and control who can become president or reach a high status in the senate factions. A problem that people are waking up to, as demonstrated in the recent rise of financially independent candidates like Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump. That's why establishment types of both parties back Hillary.

In the past it didn't really matter who you voted for, the big corporations would always win anyway. This is the true reason for classism. Increasing welfare and handouts to the poor is just treating the symptoms and not the disease.

>>8422697
fake butters has been wearing dead butters' skin so long they're melting together o.o we're a hot day away from this tranny reading vidal. please date me myrabutters

>>8422697
Autism speaks

>>8422687
Yus.

>>8422701
Exciting times.

>>8422705
Some people can't imagine a world without a government, and in this corrupt and violent world, you can't blame them. What I would call true left know we need to dither that authority to local communities, but only in a safe world where everyone is more or less on the same page. A difficult balance and hard to see in a capitalist society, I know.

>>8422708
The reactionaries of the industrial revolution wanted to get out of the cities and factories and go back to the country, to their little plot of land and live simply. How have they changed all that much?

Why are girls allowed on 4chan?

>>8422736
>Increasing welfare and handouts to the poor is just treating the symptoms and not the disease.

marxists would agree

>>8422741
we couldn't ban moot

>>8422728

I don't think you can really produce a definition of conservatism, but crucial elements in the tradition are scepticism about human reason, respect for the status quo, respect for tradition, risk aversion, and a belief in human evil. All of these things run counter radicalism in any form, even if that radicalism favours small scale agrarian production or whatever

>>8422740
>How have they changed all that much?
Read a book, slut

>>8422740

How retarded are you? Reactionaries in England at one point supported absolute monarchy, it doesn't mean that if I support absolute monarchy now I'm a conservatism.

Conservatism is about conservation - not radical change. When agrarianism and 'simple living' are the status quo, it is conservatism to support them. When they haven't been for hundreds of years, obviously it is not conservatism to support them.

typical trip fag

>>8422740
>to dither that authority to local communities, but only in a safe world where everyone is more or less on the same page

And sadly it's harder to maintain local communities, much less build one, because of redevelopment projects that essentially atomizes people

>>8422603
>Left wing just means that you are fiscally in favor of a government controlled markets and social handouts.

Retard.

>>8422603
>government controlled markets

that's a stretch. business regulation is almost as lax in Denmark as it is in Singapore. The real difference is in taxation (which is high for individuals, not so much for companies)

>>8422736
>This is the true reason for classism.
The real reason for classism is capitalism
>Increasing welfare and handouts to the poor is just treating the symptoms and not the disease.
How about direct assistance. A free education, home and healthcare. And instead of a basic income, a basic allotment of food and clothing.
>>8422742
Only because they want them to riot and manage to take control. I sympathize with the dream, but it can happen in a variety of ways.

>>8422738
I am melting into an older woman, duder. How're you? And I already read Vidal.

>>8422747
Are you claiming there are no people like this left anymore? You don't know conservatives. I was raised as one.

>>8422754
I'm speaking generally, duh.

>>8422774

>denmark is socialist

are you seriously this retarded

>>8422775
>>I'm speaking generally, duh.

In what way is that a defence of the fact that you said 'real conservatives would support muh radical delusions'?

Why are you on /lit/ when you have clearly never read a book

>>8422775
I'm sure there are people like that left, but they don't represent the entire group. Do you hate the right because of daddy issues? Did you get rejected by your family for being a lesbian?

>>8422746
I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page in terms of the descriptions of conservatism, which we are from what you've stated.

On the matter of the status quo (which obviously varies place to place), isn't "live off the fatta the lan'" fits into the vision of "Make America Great Again"

>>8422775
Please stop coming to our board. You clearly have a Wikipedia-tier understanding of philosophy and political science.

>>8422785
*doesn't

>>8422776
it definitely qualifies as socialist by a lot of definitions, admittedly most of them come from Americans. I'm assuming that's where OP comes from.

>>8422780
What's so delusional about growing food on a farm? Folks believing in climate change and the need to fight it?
HAVE YOU SEEN THE POPE?

>Why are you on /lit/ when you have clearly never read a book
Pffffff. Go back to your Turner Diaries.

>>8422785

It doesn't if that isn't the status quo. Perhaps you can correct me, but as far as I see not many Americans live "off the fatta the lan'" at all, so to produce a state of affairs in which many did would not really be conservative. Maybe reactionary, or primitivist, or even traditionalist, but it isn't conservative.

right and left are memes

>>8422782
>Did you get rejected by your family for being a lesbian?
Christian conservatives? Reject a homosexual?
They probably never knew.

>>8422791
Please stop shitting up my board, frogger.
>>>/r9k/

>>8422797
No doubt about it. Our broken education system on full display on 4chan.

>>8422813
They're generalizations

>>8422799
Why do you post on /lit/? Be honest

>>8422551
both the left and right are spooky but the right is spookier than the left. A union of egoists is the only society worth living in

>>8422820
>My board
You're triggering me, stop it

>>8422822

Spooks everywhere.

>>8422775
>I am melting into an older woman, duder. How're you? And I already read Vidal.
Real butters knew better than to talk to me. ;_;

>>8422837
Post your titties please

>>8422802
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9Y24MFOfFU
I've seen a few campaign ads where they're standing in a pig farm, hunting game or what have you. I guess I'm talking about the imagery and motifs used by conservatives (of today) that can be characterized as agrarian and how that figures into the ideology

...or perhaps it's just one of the expedient things in politics in general...

>>8422848

Okay, but that's not really relevant to the question. It may suggest that Trump's campaign isn't very conservative, because it depends on a mythical and sentimental idea of the American nation. It depends whether many americans do live in that agrarian manner and whether his campaign constitutes an attempt to conserve it

>>8422775
Free education, at least for practical subjects, should also be a right wing position to be honest, it is an investment into the economy. You get an economical return out of it.

Free healthcare is a different animal all together. It is not an investment but a redistribution of wealth. It is a fragile system that only functions as long as you have a constant supply of employed younger people who pay for the health care of old and unemployed people. It leads to drastic measures like government supported mass immigration like we saw in childless germany. Personally I am in favor of it, but the dangers shouldn't be underestimated.

Handouts can also enable a culture of anti-intellectualism like we see in the black community in the US. People need to be convinced that participating in the economy is a worthwhile goal. Which is something I am not really seeing from the US government, neither left nor right.

>>8422859

>it is an investment into the economy. You get an economical return out of it.

Implying stupid leftists don't say this about literally everything anyway. Hurr durr digging holes and filling them up again is an investment

Try harder communist

>it's a tripfag pretending to be a tripfag who pretended to be a women robot kissass episode

>>8422864
>some people justify everything with X
>therefore X can't be used to justify anything

Okay champ

>>8422874

>some people don't understand reference to Keynes
>therefore some people are stupid

Correct champ

>>8422852
>but that's not really relevant to the question

But isn't imagery part of selling a manifesto and the like?

>It may suggest that Trump's campaign isn't very conservative
True, from policy sound-bites alone Clinton and Trump aren't massively different

>>8422884

It's relevant to the campaign, it isn't relevant to whether he is a conservative or not. Nor is the distance between him and Clinton

>>8422859
>a redistribution of wealth
Wealth, in all seriousness, should never be measured in money, but ourselves. What we can do for each other in producing goods and services not least of all in emotional support. The use of money is where humanity went wrong, and moving to drop it, will only improve the quality of life.

>>8422864
A healthy worker shows up for work. Healthcare is an investment in the economy.

>>8422843
Oh hush.

>>8422859
>People need to be convinced that participating in the economy is a worthwhile goal

That's hard to do when services like learning centres, where you are able to build your on your education levels, have their funding cut or are closed

>>8422900

>A healthy worker shows up for work. Healthcare is an investment in the economy.

And how do you suppose the government is going to determine whether that investment is corresponding to an actual demand?

Oh wait, you have no answer, because you have no idea what you're talking about

>>8422900
>Wealth, in all seriousness, should never be measured in money, but ourselves. What we can do for each other in producing goods and services not least of all in emotional support. The use of money is where humanity went wrong, and moving to drop it, will only improve the quality of life.

I don't really see it. I think it is part of human nature that we need an incentive to invest hard work and time into something like getting an education. If you remove money as an incentive then why would anyone bother to become an engineer? If you want to abolish money then you need to come up with a different kind of repayment.

>>8422913
I know what I'm talking about and I know what you're talking about. The difference is that we disagree and you're a sociopath and likely a racist or even nationalist. Spooked.

>>8422924
Oh my

>>8422914
>I think it is part of human nature
The human brain is quite malleable
>why would anyone bother to become an engineer?
Why, everyone would become a NEET and a Hiki! Every-stinking-body!
Ignoring the fact they're here now and yet everyone works themselves into an early grave or fights in a war to protect other people's claims on oil that isn't theirs.

>If you want to abolish money then you need to come up with a different kind of repayment.
With a proper education, generations from now could produce the kind of world anarchists are envisioning.

>>8422900
>A healthy worker shows up for work. Healthcare is an investment in the economy.

If you have a job that creates enough wealth to be worth that investment, then you don't need mandatory socialized healthcare. You will earn enough money to pay into private healthcare and take care of it yourself.

You should stick to the humanitarian argument, because strictly economically mandatory socialized healthcare doesn't make sense.

>>8422942
For-profit everything doesn't work.

>>8422741
Girls are cute.

>>8422913
>And how do you suppose the government is going to determine whether that investment is corresponding to an actual demand?

I'm not erudite so I'll just leave this http://www.who.int/macrohealth/action/sintesis15novingles.pdf

page 48 is the conclusion

>>8422942
what if your wages are being undercut but the cost of living is rising?

>>8422942
whats rational for an individual capital is not rational for the totality. as an individual capital if your workers are incapacitated because you don't pay them enough for healthcare then you can just employ labourers from among the unemployed. but in totality having lots of incapacitated workers is an economic inefficiency

>>8422775
>Only because they want them to riot and manage to take control.

I thought it was because the social-democratic state as we understand it to be is ontologically capitalist and therefore cannot provide a system to achieve the socialist ideal?

>>8422551
Socialism is theft

>>8422991
The argument was whether the state investing into you with healthcare is a good investment or not.

Fairness is a completely different matter.

And if your wages are too low to afford a living then you probably should change fields or location because there is an overabundance of people who do the same job you do in that location, so people can afford to pay you shitty wages. If the government gives you money so you can keep afford a living anyway then there is a net loss in the end.

>>8423011
Right. What I meant to infer. They social-democratic state buys off the working class and prolongs capitalism.

>>8423022
Theft is a spook. Nothing is yours until you possess it. Once you put it down or leave it it could be someone else's

>>8423030
I wasn't making a point about fairness, my point is what if the job you work in used to be able to afford you that healthcare but suddenly it couldn't because your wages are being frozen/cut, and that goes for most of the other jobs you could do that could be out there?

> you probably should change fields or location because there is an overabundance of people who do the same job you do in that location
sounds great on paper, i'll grant you that

>then there is a net loss in the end.
Only if there is an underinvestment in developing new skills. Training for a different field requires time and a level of subsidization to carry the transition - which doesn't seem to be happening.

>>8423064
>Training for a different field requires time and a level of subsidization to carry the transition - which doesn't seem to be happening.

Yeah now we went full circle back to free education.

I can give you 250.

>>8422592
I chuckled

>>8423104
thatcher please

>>8423072
>Yeah now we went full circle back to free education.

way to put words in my mouth without actually offering anything besides a new goalpost

it is you who mentioned the government creating a net loss via handouts because of the unemployed. Yet you refuse to acknowledge that in order to address unemployment (specifically due to unskilled labour) you have to actually put something in order to get anything out (i.e. high-tech a skilled workforce).

>>8423130
I was advocating for free education somewhere above in the thread and I think it is a solution to the problem. That's all I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to say that you are advocating for it.

>>8422551
South America. Long history of socialism ruining countries and free market policies improving them. Venezuela was at point one of the richest countries in the world and now it's in shambles thanks to leftism.

>>8423159
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/08/20/vene-a20.html

>>8423182
Whats your point, tripshit?

>>8423130
>I was advocating for free education somewhere above in the thread and I think it is a solution to the problem. That's all I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to say that you are advocating for it.

Okay, fine. But a free education is beside the point that I myself was trying to make because I want to avoid complicating this. My point is that if you're (you as in a govt. that isn't too fussed about automation) gonna rely on human labour to drive the economy then the health of the workforce goes hand in hand wih that.

>>8423194
I think the point was getting you to re-evaulate your diagnosis

>>8423205
All the article does is confirm that Venezuela is a failed state thanks to its socialist govt, though

>>8423216
that would be the confirmation bias talking

>>8423150
>I was advocating for free education somewhere above in the thread and I think it is a solution to the problem. That's all I was trying to say. I wasn't trying to say that you are advocating for it.

Okay, fine. But a free education is beside the point that I myself was trying to make because I want to avoid complicating this. My point is that if you're (you as in a govt. that isn't too fussed about automation) gonna rely on human labour to drive the economy then the health of the workforce goes hand in hand wih that.

>>8423205
This is correct.

>>8423216
>Trotskyist article
>Confirming "socialist Venezuela" failing from socialism.
I don't even...

And read the book.

>>8423236
Putting people into jobs where they can afford healthcare themselves is better than burning money by keeping them in an unaffordable position just so they don't become unemployed and become an even bigger money drain.

That's not an investment, that's minimizing losses. Paying for their education to get in that new position is a good investment on the other hand, that's why I brought it up.

>>8423226
It's hardly confirmation bias when the same thing has happened in dozens of countries, kek.
>>8423246
Does the book mention that Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the world and was doing amazingly before high taxes and nationalized industry?

>>8423159
If socialism was actually successful it would destroy nations, that would be proof of its success. Venezuela is a bad example because the state hasn't been being destroyed but actually growing stronger everyday.
Also there has never been a "free market" success story ever, let alone in South America, since there only exists various shades of state capitalism. State capitalist regimes manage their economies differently but they never leave the overall structure to mere chance.

>>8423258
>Does the book mention that Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the world and was doing amazingly before high taxes and nationalized industry?
>have one of highest death by starvation rates in the world
>bring in nationalisation
>half starvation rate
>bring in taxes for wealth redistribution
>lowest income inequality in all s. america
>leader is some how popular with all the people he helped out of poverty
>they keep voting for him even though he does retarded things like sell oil to feed the people, when what you need to do is let a company do that for profit
>memesters keep maintaining shit must be getting worse because gommunism never helped no one because usually the people polled for is life better now than starvation we just let die lol
>leader dies
>memesters go into overdrive
>new leader is fucking pol pot with a spanish accent
>sudden precipitous decline in people not dying from lack of food
>all previous reversal of the starvation rate under previous leader lost
>starts labour redistribution instead of wealth redistribution
>new leader not so popular
>memesters overjoyed the decline they've been claiming happened with last leader has finally been fulfilled
>unconcerned this proves their chavez memes incorrect
>probably don't even know chavez is dead
m9 if you can't handle books, at least read newspaper now and then

>>8423258
Having large natural resource reserves isn't some great asset otherwise most countries in Africa would be very rich... if anything it leads to complacency and delusion in boom times which prevents real structural reforms from happening when you have a nice revenue stream coming in from high resource prices which you can spend

>>8423285
>socialism made everything better until the country imploded in like 70 years
Cool. Meanwhile GBR is still going strong after over 500 years
>>8423275
Theres always going to be a state man, someone has to make rules maintain order even if its tribalism or feudalism
>>8423298
Its working out well for Canada and Australia because theyre not socialist hellholes(yet)

>>8423308
>>socialism made everything better until the country imploded in like 70 years
>i need things to be black and white and simplistic or i get lost which side i'm on
k then

>>8423253
>That's not an investment, that's minimizing losses

investing in economic prosperity cannot be narrowed to down to education alone, come on you know this. The solution is multi-faceted as is the problem. Also, I think making an investment takes in considerations of minimising loss too.

>>8423337
>investing in economic prosperity cannot be narrowed to down to education alone

If you have other ideas beyond free education, feel free to share them.

>Also, I think making an investment takes in considerations of minimising loss too.
Yes, but if you have a guaranteed loss then it's not an investment, it's damage control.

>>8423308
>Its working out well for Canada and Australia because theyre not socialist hellholes(yet)

No, no, no. Dependence on natural resources has underdeveloped Canada and made it a semi-colony of the American empire, no autonomous national bourgeoisie grew up so Canada is now completely controlled by foreign interests and has no legitimate sovereign culture any more.


See:
G. Williams, Not for Export: Toward a Political Economy of Canada's Arrested Industrialization
G. Laxer, Open for Business: The Roots of Foreign Ownership in Canada

and try reading "International Trade and Neoliberal Globalism: Towards Re-peripheralisation in Australia, Canada and Mexico?"

https://www.amazon.ca/International-Trade-Neoliberal-Globalism-Re-peripheralisation/dp/0415425395

>>8423356
>beyond free education,

a healthcare policy that also takes into account the work force, I thought this other part was already made known.

>but if you have a guaranteed loss then it's not an investment, it's damage control.
yet, can you guarantee me that loss you speak hypothetocally of?

information about the investments in health in terms of the economy is already out there: https://www.imf.org/external/np/pp/eng/2015/042015.pdf

what do you mean by leftism?
I consider leftism to be dead, it no longer fights for the working class.
Instead it fights for globalism, it helps capitalism bring in more mass immigration to lower the cost of labor at the expense of the working class, if you question this you are accused of racism.
It is more concerned with idinitty politics and trying to convince corporations and pop culture to cater to their specific identity, whether that be black, gay, trans, whatever.

Now onto communism, which died when the berlin wall fell.
Cuba, recently gave in to america.
China is communist in name only.
North korea might as well just come out and say they are fascists already.
Soviet union died.

Under obama the left has stagnated culturally, too scared to question the first black president, too drunk with power to pull back on the sjw authoritarianism that pervades leftists institutions like the media and academia.
Becoming the new moral vanguard, a leftist equivalent to evangelical Christians int he 80's and 90's.

What is progress anyways?
It is an illusion, something that could be wiped away with one disaster, a nuke, a disease, etc.

Progress has no endgame, to the left we must degenerate as a culture endlessly, mocking tradition.

>>8423392
>yet, can you guarantee me that loss you speak hypothetocally of?

Yes, I've explained it twice now.

>information about the investments in health in terms of the economy is already out there
I am sure it is better than doing nothing, since like I said, it minimizes unemployment rates which would be even worse economically than spending money on healthcare. It's better than doing nothing.

>>8423393
The classical notion of the "working class" is predominantly in Asia today, the first world financial oligarchy captures the value generated there and is then taxed by first world governments and some of the loot captured is used to artificially rise the living standards of the first world lumpenproletariat. Revolutionary consciousness cannot be generated outside the immediate process of production so don't expect revolutionary consciousness to develop if the conditions are not there... China is pretty much the spot where a legitimate socialist revolution could break out if the state capitalist regime starts to crumble and people capture the means of production for their own use instead of making barbie dolls for fat American children

Hillary Clinton is a center right neo liberal corporatist, but people will vote for her because the left is ruled by identity politics, a woman being the puppet of the oligarchy is progress to the modern left.

The GOP are center right neocons, worshipers of israel and corporations, they give the voters a few bones every now and then, but have nothing to stop mass immigration.

Donald trump is a populist, nationalist, outsider who scares the oligarchy, although i dont think they have anything to worry about if he somehow stumbled into being president.

The left is more concerned with culture wars and identity to ever come together and send the elite to the guillotines.

It is more important for there to be more black gay trannies in star trek wars than say facing the reality of crippling debt, the inability to be able to move out of your parents house, finding a job, paying for school, healthcare, buying a car.

>>8422551
There are two types of people.

Those who want to live their life and be left alone. And those who want to impose on that.

The left is the latter.

>>8423447
>Donald trump is a populist, nationalist, outsider who scares the oligarchy, although i dont think they have anything to worry about if he somehow stumbled into being president.

You realize populism and nationalism are good for certain sectors of "the elite" right? There's no single monolithic policy block in America but different vested interest... think trilateralists (e.g. Jimmy Carter and financial interests) and unilateralists (e.g. Ronald Regan and the military industrial complex).
Tariffs and cutting off foreign competition will raise the rate of profit and allow price inflation for domestic producers while lowering the general living standard.

/Lit/ has really outdone itself with this thread

These are some of the most stupid debates I have ever seen on 4chan

>>8423493
thats why i said

>although i dont think they have anything to worry about if he somehow stumbled into being president

Did you just have stroke half way through reading, turd bugler

>>8423421
>Yes, I've explained it twice now.
Your explanations are DEPENDENT on getting that job that creates enough wealth to make investing in one's healthcare possible, which invariably involves retraining (yes, i know you've mentioned education), but ignores very real factors such as wage stagnation/wage cuts across all sectors in tandem with the rise in the cost of living, lack of opportunites in order to re-train

And what happens when you get that job?
Let's say you've landed on that job that requires you to sit at a desk for hours on end. This year your insurance premium has gone up but your pay remains the same. In fact everything's gone up. You start getting back problems and it's getting worse. You need time off, you need medication and physiotherapy. You're insurance only covers some of that which means you can't get as much time off as you'd hope to recover... you're physical health get's worse but your stress is beyond relief.

>Like I said, it minimizes unemployment rates which would be even worse economically than spending money on healthcare.
Rephrase please because since were are actually talking about healthcare and employability this statement becomes confusing

>It's better than doing nothing
No, it's what should be done as part of a package of policies

>>8423502
please, enlighten the rest of us then.

>>8423447
I don't feel comfortable calling center right the left. :p

>>8423449
>Mommy and daddy wont leave me alone
You radical individualists are so cut sometimes. We don't live in a vacuum. Learn balance.

>>8423437
It would help if revolutionary consciousness wasn't instantly co-opted by hippies, racialists, and commie entryists every time the 99% tried to get a movement started.

>>8423538
the clintons are center right new democrats, they even have a wiki page, she'll be sucking corporate dick and signing the tpp the second she gets into office

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democrats
the far right and the far left are threats to the globalist oligarchy that really controls america

>>8423538
>I don't feel comfortable calling center right the left

The state of things is that those who have the stronger rhetoric (read:platform) controls the ever-shifting territory we call the centre. It's pretty laughable that some politicians are considered far-left when a decade or two ago they were pretty much at the centre.

>>8423560
> the far left are threats to the globalist oligarchy that really controls america

Yeah I'm sure the massive cabal made up of all the people with money and power are really quaking in their boots about a bunch of bitter Chomskyites whining about how the Mossad did 9/11.

>>8423576
How soon w forget the socialist jew who flew too close to the sun, Bernard sanders

>>8422551
Traditions organically evolved as rational responses to survival pressures and social problems. You are not smarter than all of history.

>>8423583
>white people don't know what it's like to be poor
Yeah, definitely a 21st century socialist. Thankfully he retired in his new lakehouse before he was able to hurt anyone.

>>8423612
communism, socialism, are threats to the current oligarchical capitalist order, its why the media (a tentacle of the corporate elite) shat on sanders constantly, even the supposed leftwing media.
The elite let feminism and sjw's and niggers exist in a state where they arent threats to capitalism, the second fascism, communism, theocracy, non capitalist forms of governance start sprouting they destroy you in every way possible

>>8423628
Something that fails every time it's tried, requires deviant philosophy to support intellectually, and is openly hostile to its supposed beneficiaries, is not a threat to anything.

Sanders in particular was never anything more than a 3rd party cloud cuckoolander who wanted attention and money from impressionable college students.