/lit/ - Literature

>>8304181
Does Erikson actually think he's a good poet?

Why the hell not...
I posted before and it seemed you guys (as well as the critique thread) generally have a good opinion on my writing so I'll keep posting stuff as long as I write SFF
It's not like it costs me anything and maybe some of you will enjoy.
Here, have some comfy pics from where I live too.

http://pastebin.com/raw/HLbht5k2

>>8304216
Promising. It reminds me of le guins writing although I couldn't point out why.

>>8304112
>>8304061
>>8304049
The idea is that there's a MMORPG that's taken over the world and before the creator died he left a treasure hunt for all the players in order to choose a successor, which isn't a terrible idea on it's own, but the entire treasure hunt turns out to be a string of big-bang-theoryesque pop culture references. So yeah it's absolutely serious.

>>8304342
And apparently this shit is getting made into a film by Spielberg, scored by John Williams. Unreal.

>>8304342
>but the entire treasure hunt turns out to be a string of big-bang-theoryesque pop culture references
I just vomited out of my ass.

>>8304216
Feels a little overwrought to me. You could get the same effect with fewer strained sentences, and it would be easier to read. The subject matter seems good though.

>>8304360
It literally ends with the main characters and the bag guys fighting it out in a bunch of giant mechs from various anime. The main villain pilots mecha-godzilla.

>>8304378
Gross.

>>8304342

>>8304372
I know it must feel needlessly elaborate and I hope it doesn't turn too many people away from reading it for this reason alone. I strive to at least have proper grammar even though english is not my native language, so please bear with me anon.

>>8304499
>I know it must feel needlessly elaborate and I hope it doesn't turn too many people away from reading
If you know, then fix it. Why are you playing some kind of victim as if it's out of your control?

>>8304504
There's nothing to fix because it's exactly the way I want to write this short story. I also think, and that's just my own opinion, that the story has a bit of poetic value and once finished it will have a very mythic feeling to it.

Do I be?
Do I not be?
Is that the question?

>>8304214
>Non romance language
>poetry

Made me giggle

>>8304517

>there's nothing to fix

Wrong mindset for a writer imo

There's always something to fix.

>>8304519

Followers of the No-God have no such worries.

Uncucc yourself and join us.

>>8304527
I must be missing out, as I've never read any Romance poetry, although my Italian friend brags about how good it is. Post some of your favourites.

Any good fantasy with a little girl as protag?
Doesn't have to be epic, something like a coming of age story with fantastical elements.

>>8304517
>that the story has a bit of poetic value and once finished it will have a very mythic feeling to it.
Yeah I got that, but you need to find a balance between mythic and incomprehensible, as it stands now it's needlessly complex with the strangely placed adverbs.
I'd aim more for the tone that Steinbeck uses in Grapes of Wrath were he describes the Okie migration to Cali, it's still mythic, but much more digestible.

>>8304575
mistborn?

Reposting question
>>8303565

>>8304542
Luis Vaz de Camões.

This nigger wrote a 10 part full historic epic fantasy in rhyming poetry.
He made sure that it was written in the decasyllabic ottava rima, which has the rhyme scheme ABABABCC.

But there's no point reading it if you don't know Portuguese.

>>8304528
I agree anon and I immediately regretted what u said upon posting the comment.

>>8304582
I will definitely check it out and try to improve in the next stanzas. Hopefully the prose will be less incomprehensible yet still retain the atmosphere that I'm looking for. It's really hard because I'm no native english speaker, but I'll improve.

Have more comfy pics as a token of thanks

>>8304575

Hood's breath man how long have you been asking this

>>8304575
I got you famili. Less than 2 hours reads.

>>8304634
Hi cosmerefag, where's your map?

>>8304606
>bridge between all meme
What are you talking about?

>>8304575
first mistborn trilogy

>>8304740
If you read ender's game and metro 2033, you would see both have similar endings desu.

Surgebinding is boring :( Why does his biggest series have his least interesting magic system.

>>8304756
I'm halfway through WoR and still didn't understand that fucking diagram you post in every /sff/

>>8304751
3 threads ago he said he was reading mistborn, so something else. Although I believe he is a troll that is trying to piss ppl off by spamming the same shit every thread.

>>8304761
Isn't it from mistborn?

>>8304765
No

>>8304773
nigga that's just your pog collection

Sanderson is anime

Anyone else listen to audiobooks of the novel's they are reading when trying to fall asleep?

>>8304216
There's a freshness to your writing that I don't often see. The prose is kinda dense I agree but not bad desu, and there's interesting philosophy and ideas in there. I can see some influences and it overall has a solid mythopoeic aspect to it, kinda like Silmarillion but without the whole creation of the universe and battle between gods mumbo jumbo
Just curious, do you post your stuff on other sites or do you want to get published? or you just write for fun?

Do I know why Hood came to visit in person?
Do I understand what is going on in Kabustan?
Do I understand what the persons inside Silverfox want?
Do I know why Baron's stomach keeps hurting?
Do I want to know?

>>8304920
>spoilers all context
>doesn't mention name of book

>>8304761
>>8304773


It's not super important yet, and surgebinding is more simple than it appears. It's literally just this

You get two powers out of 10 powers.

Example:

Szeth gets gravity + adhesion (= windrunning). So he can mess around with "sticking to things" and gravity. Simple.

Shallan gets transformation + illumination. Changing things + light = changing light. Illusions. Lightweaver.

That's how it works. It's not like Mistborn where there's ~16 metals, three magic systems, and combining them in different creative ways can lead to all sorts of interesting things. It's not scientific. It's more simple and just anime-like powers.

I like a lot about Stormlight but the magic isn't super creative.

>>8304945
Does mistborn get more magic details after the first book

I liked that it was basically just magnetism in book 1

>>8304951
It does. The second book is shit though.

>>8304951

It definitely does, yeah, but never in a infodump-y or level up-y way, it's actually pretty naturally and deftly done. You can tell Brandon had finished the third book before the first book was published, because everything connects really well.

The third book has the most interesting magic system IMO, one that isn't discussed openly in the first two books.

The sequel trilogy is also a lot of fun with the magic adapted to a wild west future.

>>8304956
I disagree but I understand the common complaints around book 2. Other anon, may as well try it out, you might be one of the people like me who really liked it.

Any reccomendations for magic/steam punkish science? (Think like Millenniums Rule)

>>8304575
Iron Dragons Daughter
Orphans of Chaos

>>8304958
Mistborn is dull and edgy as fuck. Second Book specially.
KelsierDead ruined it for me

Zane is the most retarded character I've ever seen. It's anime tier. Literally Sasuke in real life.

>>8304965
The western Mistborn books (Alloy of law, Shadows of Self, Bands of Mourning) have a fair dose of that.

>>8304968
agree to disagree anon :)

>>8304965
Engineer Trilogy

>>8304971
ah, I should've said I've also covered the mistborn stuff, sorry.

>>8304974
I'll take a look.

>>8304933

Malazan

>>8304968
>KelsierDead ruined it for me

Hmm you really should have kept reading

>>8304992
I hate grinding and Zane was the last drop.

I'd always been of the opinion that fantasy was complete garbage even though I'm too dumb to know what separates good literature from genre trash. While I can't quite put my finger on it due to being a complete moron, Wolfe's The Wizard Knight has made me see how wrong I was.

>>8304920
This audiobook must be narrated by someone with Down's if you think Capustan is spelled "Kabustan" and Paran is spelled "Baron".

>>8305016
thanks for sharing

>>8305002
I legit don't understand your beef with him, and I haven't watched any anime so your comparisons there don't illuminate anything to me. His mental issues are explained pretty well in the trilogy, and he's a good external representation of a side of herself Vin was wrestling with.

>>8305051
>I legit don't understand your beef

Read quality books. You'll eventually find out.

>>8305064

Ha. I give multiple reasons backing up my point of view. Rather than engage with any of them, you just lazily shitpost back. Says a lot about the "quality" of your argument.

>>8305022

I'm Russian so it's very hard to tell the difference when you don't see the writing, even though I speak fluently, it's not hard for just words but names are a different matter

Why can't normies grasp the absolute?

Also, 60 posts and no Bakker? I am dissapointed in you /lit/

>>8305111
You could look at the Dramatis Personae here

http://malazan.wikia.com/wiki/Memories_of_Ice#Dramatis_Personae_.28as_found_in_books.29

But obviously don't look at the plot summary.

>>8305119

Bakker is a meme writer

>>8305070
Not him, but you're literally retarded.

>>8305119
Oh great, the Amerifats are awake.

>>8305119
>Also, 60 posts and no Bakker?

I wish it would have stayed Bakkerless.

>>8305126
I am sure you didn't read the books, pleb

>>8305150
Eastern Europe. Probably the only on in this city that is a bakker fan. I have grasped the absolute

>>8305178
>I am sure you didn't read the books, pleb

And I thank myself every time I see a bakker poster that I didn't.

>>8305119
Because they aren't hegelians you absolute fucking plebiean?

>>8305168
why? you don't like amazing books?

>>8305184

I am become Bakkerfag, destroyed of threads

>>8305190

Can't even spell destroyer? Proof that Bakker is the best writer the west has ever seen

>>8305181
I got this from /r/fantasy ( inb4 OMG reddit). It's prologue of the series,read it, it takes a few minutes http://textuploader ( ) com/5i3zc

If you are not at least intrigued than you have shit taste

>>8305182

what does that even mean? What is the relationship between bakker and Hegel ? ( Bonus points for a real non-meme answer)

>>8305198

Reported you for scam/virus link.

>>8305190
>>8305194

Honestly, Bakker, Wolfe, Erikson and a few others are the few books worth discussing....and the few books you actually have something to discuss.

I mean, compared to Sanderson or any other "mainstream" writer, the ideas discussed are much more complicated...

>>8305204
>the ideas discussed are much more complicated...

Nobody discusses Malazan except for the low IQ guy constantly asking stupid questions in his meme way

>>8305207
>>8305204

Bakker is constantly shilled here by a few die hard autists and bringing up Wolfe instantly summons the dino and anti-dino autists

>>8305202
>>8305198

you are retarded mang, it's a text uploading website. Here, I will upload it here with shittier formatting, just for you.

(Part 1/2)

PROLOGUE
The Wastes of Kuniüri
It is only after that we understand what has come before, then we
understand nothing. Thus we shall define the soul as follows: that which precedes
everything.
—AJENCIS, THE THIRD ANALYTIC OF MEN

Year-of-the-Tusk, the Mountains of Demua

One cannot raise walls against what has been forgotten.
The citadel of Ishual succumbed during the height of the Apocalypse. But no
army of inhuman Sranc had scaled its ramparts. No furnace-hearted dragon had
pulled down its mighty gates. Ishual was the secret refuge of the Kuniüric High
Kings, and no one, not even the No-God, could besiege a secret.
Months earlier, Anasurimbor Ganrelka II, High King of Kuniüri, had fled to
Ishual with the remnants of his household. From the walls, his sentries stared
pensively across the dark forests below, their thoughts stricken by memories of
burning cities and wailing multitudes. When the wind moaned, they gripped Ishual’s
uncaring stone, reminded of Sranc horns. They traded breathless reassurances. Had
they not eluded their pursuers? Were not the walls of Ishual strong? Where else
might a man survive the end of the world?
The plague claimed the High King first, as was perhaps fitting: Ganrelka had
only wept at Ishual, raged the way only an Emperor of nothing could rage. The
following night the members of his household carried his bier down into the forests.
They glimpsed the eyes of wolves reflected in the light of his pyre. They sang no
dirges, intoned only a few numb prayers.
Before the morning winds could sweep his ashes skyward, the plague had
struck two others: Ganrelka’s concubine and her daughter. As though pursuing his
bloodline to its thinnest tincture, it assailed more and more members of his
household. The sentries upon the walls became fewer, and though they still watched
the mountainous horizon, they saw little. The cries of the dying crowded their
thoughts with too much horror.
Soon even the sentries were no more. The five Knights of Tryse who’d
rescued Ganrelka after the catastrophe on the Fields of Eleneot lay motionless in
their beds. The Grand Vizier, his golden robes stained bloody by his bowel, lay
sprawled across his sorcerous texts. Ganrelka’s uncle, who’d led the heartbreaking
assault on Golgotterath’s gates in the early days of the Apocalypse, hung from a
rope in his chambers, slowly twisting in a draft. The Queen stared endlessly across
festering sheets.
Of all those who had fled to Ishual, only Ganrelka’s bastard son and the
Bardic Priest survived.
Terrified by the Bard’s strange manner and one white eye, the young boy hid,
venturing out only when his hunger became unbearable. The old Bard continually
searched for him, singing ancient songs of love and battle, but slurring the words in
blasphemous ways.

>>8305198
There is none and the bakkerfags are too uneducated to notice.

>>8305213
(Part 2/2)
“Why won’t you show yourself, child?” he would cry as he
reeled through the galleries. “Let me sing to you. Woo you with secret songs. Let me
share the glory of what once was!”
One night the Bard caught the boy. He caressed first his cheek and then his
thigh. “Forgive me,” he muttered over and over, but tears fell only from his blind
eye. “There are no crimes,” he mumbled afterward, “when no one is left alive.”
But the boy lived. Five nights later, he lured the Bardic Priest onto Ishual’s
towering walls. When the man shambled by in a drunken stupor, he pushed him from
the heights. He crouched for a long while at the fall’s edge, staring down through the
gloom at the Bard’s broken corpse. It differed from the others, he decided, only in
that it was still wet. Was it murder when no one was left alive?
Winter added its cold to the emptiness of Ishual. Propped on the battlements,
the child would listen to the wolves sing and feud through the dark forests. He would
pull his arms from his sleeves and hug his body against the chill, murmuring his dead
mother’s songs and savoring the wind’s bite on his cheek. He would fly through the
courtyards, answering the wolves with Kuniüric war cries, brandishing weapons that
staggered him with their weight. And once in a while, his eyes wide with hope and
superstitious dread, he would poke the dead with his father’s sword.
When the snows broke, shouts brought him to Ishual’s forward gate. Peering
through dark embrasures, he saw a group of cadaverous men and women—refugees
of the Apocalypse. Glimpsing his shadow, they cried out for food, shelter, anything,
but the boy was too terrified to reply. Hardship had made them look
fearsome—feral, like a wolf people.
When they began scaling the walls, he fled to the galleries. Like the Bardic
Priest, they searched for him, calling out guarantees of his safety. Eventually, one of
them found him cringing behind a barrel of sardines. With a voice neither tender nor
harsh, he said: “We are Dünyain, child. What reason could you have to fear us?”
But the boy clutched his father’s sword, crying, “So long as men live, there
are crimes!”
The man’s eyes filled with wonder. “No, child,” he said. “Only so long as
men are deceived.”
For a moment, the young Anasurimbor could only stare at him. Then
solemnly, he set aside his father’s sword and took the stranger’s hand. “I was a
prince,” he mumbled.
The stranger brought him to the others, and together they celebrated their
strange fortune. They cried out—not to the Gods they had repudiated but to one
another—that here was evident a great correspondence of cause. Here awareness
most holy could be tended. In Ishual, they had found shelter against the end of the
world.

>>8305226
>>8305213
Part 3/2 because I suck at math

Still emaciated but wearing the furs of kings, the Dünyain chiseled the
sorcerous runes from the walls and burned the Grand Vizier’s books. The jewels,
the chalcedony, the silk and cloth-of-gold, they buried with the corpses of a dynasty.
And the world forgot them for two thousand years.

Now after reading this, can you honestly not be curios ? Can you not see the greatness that is Bakker ?

>>8305231
>Now after reading this, can you honestly not be curios ? Can you not see the greatness that is Bakker ?

It reads like a LOTR rip off like Shannara

It's unoriginal drivel

>>8305141
Not him, but your intelligence is figurative.

>>8305247
Are you that mad you have a shit taste?

>>8305247
>Liking Twilight tier characters

Ok

>>8305247
I literally found this on Reddit.

Just started with the whole series and I thought the Kelsier bump would be the hardest thing to get over. Now I'm reading WOA and Zane! Finally another mistborn whos skills are up to par with Vin's for the moment, not to mention he seemed a lot like Kel. Zane had such confidence and skill and he promised something much more exciting and real for Vin than I feel Elend(cant stand him) ever could. But now he's gone... I've never felt more saddened by the death of a character in the book, it feels even worse than when Kelsier left. Right now I'm honestly on the verge of just stopping, so can someone please promise me that Sanderson will stop killing off the cool mistborns. Please. Cool Mistborn kill counter: 2

>>>/reddit/

>>8305231

I can see shit prose for one thing.

>>8305318
Still better than Sanderson and GRRM

>>8305252
Why would this make me angry?
>>8305253
I have yet to read that series, so I do not know whether such characters are enjoyable.
>>8305267
Why are you on Reddit? This board satisfies my meager needs.

>>8305213
State of that prose

And the fucking names for everything

>Soon even the sentries were no more. The five Knights of Tryse who’d
rescued Ganrelka after the catastrophe on the Fields of Eleneot lay motionless in
their beds. The Grand Vizier, his golden robes stained bloody by his bowel, lay
sprawled across his sorcerous texts. Ganrelka’s uncle, who’d led the heartbreaking
assault on Golgotterath’s gates in the early days of the Apocalypse, hung from a
rope in his chambers, slowly twisting in a draft. The Queen stared endlessly across
festering sheets.

This line means literally nothing because of the nonsense words

>>8305267

If I wanted to read reddit I would go to /lit/ or /sffg/

>>8305366
It's incredibly awful.
It's a banal sentence where he replaces ordinary words with nonsense.

>>8304903
Thanks!
I was certainly influenced by the Silmarillion though in my later parts the story is thick with buddhist themes.
Yes, I post on tumblr and DA but I don't want to promote myself on 4chums too much due to the attitude.
I'll probably post the other parts in sffg threads as they get from finished.

>I thought she was speaking to me but her eyes were focused over my shoulder and I turned to see Brasti halfway out of the door. ‘I’m going to find something to eat,’ he said. ‘I’ll be back in an hour or two. Maybe by then Falcio will be done letting you cuckold him.’
>‘I don’t think cuckold means what you think it does,’ Kest said.
is Greatcoats 4chan approved?

What are Bakker's politics?

I don't read leftist writers.

>>8305366
Of course it's nothing because the author abuses namedropping to create an illusion of depth and history within his fictional world.
I never read it but I sure hope it's not an actual excerpt from an actual published book that has an actual fanbase.

>>8305391
Don't be a retard. Overt preaching is bad whether it's Goodkind or Erikson, but otherwise, good authors are good authors. I plan to read Le Guin soon, even though I disagree with her politics.

How do I write well

>>8305387
Yeah, last thread had talk about it

>>8305418

You have to dedicate at least 60% of the book to the following things

>description of women's clothing
>the points of view of irrelevant characters with no resolution whatsoever
>elaborate digressions on embroidery, wall hangings and all manner of decorations

Don't forget to use the word "fool" at least two hundred times per book.

>>8305391
He's a liberal, but not an insufferable one,who as openly decried the PC culture that has infected academia. He just made a huge post about it on his blog.


Really the best you can expect from a Canadian

>>8305458
Meaning any way you turn it, an untalented, obnoxious leftist.

>>8305418
Don't write out everything bluntly and don't make it a cryptic mess that's cryptic with zero meaning behind it.

>>8305458
>I don't like leftists because they're obnoxious!
>Bakkers great because he's obnoxious!
State of the polposters on here

>>8305226
Where did the Dunyain come from?

They were sent by the Consult, right?

It's part of their ultimate plan.

>>8305418
Write every day. Keep trying to write things in new ways, stretch your mind to find new ways to talk about things. Read books as much as possible when not writing, it will give you more ideas.

Then dial all that back and write extremely plain, functional prose to describe the mundane existence of your characters in unnecessary detail. Tell yourself it's to "flesh them out" before getting to the real story.

Ernst Jünger - The Glass Bees
Is it any good? I'm a bit concerned since I found the epub on stormfront lol.

>>8305542
Possibly. I think they're more a counterpoint to the horrors of the consult. That humanity can create things just as horrible as the alien rape monsters.

>>8305494
I don't care too much about an authors personal views, as long as they keep it to themselves and not push it through their works.

But keep generalizing

>But as he looked he saw some small dark thing half buried in snow, a few paces from the gate. He stooped, and then softly picked it up in his two hands. It was the otak, its fine short fur all clogged with blood and its small body light and stiff and cold in his hands.

>>8305609
Stormfags like Junger because he was a nationalist, conveniently forgetting his rejections of advances the Nazi party made towards him. Politically he was seen to be rehabilitated by the 50s and remained a respected philosopher until his death.

What makes Abercrombie such a fresh, witty and unique voice?

>>8305779
By actually delivering an original and entertaining story that doesn't try to be some 2deep4u philo-religious shit.

>>8305779
>>8305785

Is this meta irony?

>>8305779
He's still very much a growing writer.

His whole work seems to be focused on trope inverting, which does get tiresome after the third or fourth time. Hopefully he can find a way to expand a story beyond this

Just your thread reminder that the Sad Puppies are so autistic they can't handle not being able to read a book by it's cover.
https://bradrtorgersen.wordpress.com/2015/02/04/sad-puppies-3-the-unraveling-of-an-unreliable-field/

>That’s what’s happened to Science Fiction & Fantasy literature. A few decades ago, if you saw a lovely spaceship on a book cover, with a gorgeous planet in the background, you could be pretty sure you were going to get a rousing space adventure featuring starships and distant, amazing worlds. If you saw a barbarian swinging an axe? You were going to get a rousing fantasy epic with broad-chested heroes who slay monsters, and run off with beautiful women. Battle-armored interstellar jump troops shooting up alien invaders? Yup. A gritty military SF war story, where the humans defeat the odds and save the Earth. And so on, and so forth.

>These days, you can’t be sure.

>The book has a spaceship on the cover, but is it really going to be a story about space exploration and pioneering derring-do? Or is the story merely about racial prejudice and exploitation, with interplanetary or interstellar trappings?

>There’s a sword-swinger on the cover, but is it really about knights battling dragons? Or are the dragons suddenly the good guys, and the sword-swingers are the oppressive colonizers of Dragon Land?

>>8305609
He's pretty good and also very interesting as a persona.

>>8305779
The absolute lack of any kind of style or any requirement for attention.

>>8305763
i left off at that exact part

>>8305829

>>8305542
>Where did the Dunyain come from?

I think Achamian mentioned that the word had nonmen origins.

We know that the nonmen were trying to find their on ways to bypass damnation. The Dunyain were probably an offshoot of an experiment they tried when the mansions were still intact.

>>8305366
>nonsense words

All of that stuff gets talked about later though. Many times.

>>8305763
What's bad about this? Never read he book you're referring to.

This was a good novella I just finished which combines sci-fi and fantasy. An old man travels around Europe on a very old Earth, where technology progressed and then was lost, so old is mixed with new, in Paris, Rome, and Jerusalem.

Very much a redemption tale which recommends a communal spirituality in order to improve ourselves; by transcending our bodies, which confine and isolate our souls, we gain renewal and wisdom.

>>8306196
>that art
>that manface
Interest instantly lost.

>>8306214
>Judging a book by its cover.

So now that kickass is dead where should I look if what I want isn't on bookz?

>>8306239
Used book store.
Local library.

>>8306247
lmao neither of those exist anymore

The Fifth Season or Uprooted?

>>8306088
But weren't all the nonmen that weren't insane working for the consult after the apocalypse?

>>8306332
The former. Uprooted is just a bunch of wasted potential and feels ultimately very very underwhelming.

Sell me on Altered Carbon

>>8304648
>Hood's breath
>Sanderson

If you're prepping to write Fantasy, how do you know when enough world building is enough?

>>8306336
Not right away. As they became more and more erratic the consult slowly worked their way into Ishterebith. It's only really in aspect emperor when most Nonmen fall to the consult

>>8306369
There should be zero world-building. World building is not fantasy. It is not literature. Your book should contain only prose artistry and mythic diction all wrapped in refined plot and thematic structuring and examination

>>8304756
We've only seen a handful of different Surgebinders showcased. It'll become more interesting once more Knights Radiant begin cropping up. Plus remember that Surgebinding is one-third of Roshar's magic system. We still have Voidbinding and whatever crazy shit Cultivation can produce, like the Nightwatcher's boons/cursing providing effects such as metabolization of food into Stormlight for Lift.

>>8304958
Hemalurgy is gonna be some batshit end-game importance magic.

>>8304968
>Kelsier
>dead

>>8306399
Okay. And could I now get an answer from someone who's not a pretentious faggot?

>>8306467
Thanks for spoiling the rest of us you cunt.

>>8306116
Nothing, I was raging at the characters for leaving him out in the snow to die.

>>8306487
>>8306467
Yeah echoing this, you can fuck off now

The post you replied to was even in a spoiler tag

>>8306527
>being this dumb

>>8306527
>be on /lit/
>can't write properly

>>8306467
>Edgedancers

Thoughts on John Norman's Gor series? I know that it's little more than a cheap knock-off of Burrough's Barsoom series mixed with BDSM, but still...

In the general recommendations for fantasy under misc, should be The Last Wish or The Sword of Destiny rather than Blood of Elves

>>8305829
Nice try, tumblr.

so how is The Book of the Long Sun compared to the New?

>>8306703
Good, but its clear GW isn't that skilled with Third Person as he is with First Person

>>8306703
Every Gene Wolfe book is good to great but New Sun is his masterpiece so expect a step down

>>8304965
Iron Dragon's Daughter, and the cogweaver trilogy

>>8305212
I don't have a problem with wolfe, how many times do i have to say it?

>people actually take the dino meme seriously

>>8304216
>The father was a man of simple bearing. Not a simple man but a wise and complex one, and thus he carried himself in the shape of a wise and complex man's idea of simplicity.

Wat. Textbook telling, not showing. Also doesn't make a shred of sense.

>>8306786
>>8304216
That line...author-kun have you read BOTNS? lol I remember Severian saying something very similar about Master Gurloes

>>8306249
Maybe its cause I live in NY but we can get any book in existence through our local library, as long as you're patient for the shipping time it takes the book to get there from another local branch

Also they offer free ebooks

I've personally been to two libraries within 10 miles of me bigger than most high schools

Is this an anomaly? Are there no other libraries in the US?

>>8306356
He said that already when mapposting, hence why the
>where is your map

>>8306343
Gri approved, you can body swap. Wanna fuck your daughter? Swap bodies and fuck her. It's not incest now is it?

>>8306601
They can hop between Shadesmar and the Physical Realm. Pretty neato.

>>8306650

Porn for misogynists who hate women

>>8306803
I'm English

We have a town library (fuck all in it), county wide library system (more in it) and national database

But if it's not in town you have to pay a fee to order the book, if it's not in county then you have to wait ages too. So it's cheaper and quicker to order second hand off amazon

Also with regards to the US a lot of your public libraries are in a notoriously sorry state because of the way funding is used

>>8306812
My wife's boyfriend and I agree.

>>8306214
Quiet Brad.

>>8306343
It's a good series if you want a pulpy, violent action novel about a amoral, badass Croatian-Japanese super soldier stabbing people with a knife that uses nano-machines to turn their blood into cyanide. However I personally thought the later two books in the series were more interesting than the first. Netflix is also making a series if you want to wait for that instead.

>>8306813
Where are you basing your assertion on US libraries off? Do you mean US in plurality? Regional? County? Township?

Do you travel to random libraries in the US?

>>8306841

Except women are literally slaves in that series, almost all of them

Post em guys

>>8306939
>Tfw only read 5 short ass books this year

First excerpt is up. So far it's trippy, with unusually nice prose.


http://www.tor.com/2016/07/21/excerpts-the-last-days-of-new-paris-china-mieville/

Reading Zelazny's "Creatures Of Light & Darkness". Pretty killer concept and execution for a proto-cyberpunk story about egyptian gods, two things that I adore

>>8306939
Never done the challenges, does it help?

>>8306959
I wonder if Tor ever gets tired of pandering to the lowest echelons of 'nerd culture' with their Harry Potter rereads and constant Marvel think pieces.

>>8306959
Can Mieville ascend to dino-core?

>>8306939
I've got 44 read on my kobo which I reset this year

But some of those are 100 page stuff like Parker novels

>>8307013
>Probably not. He unconsciously writes pulp when he thinks he's writing stimulating fiction. Which is ironic, considering he draws from the likes of Lovecraft while simultaneously considering himself a more evolved species.

>>8307023
Who are you quoting?

>>8306974
>Never done the challenges, does it help?
Not really. I read nonetheless, fixing a number doesn't mean shit to me.
To some it's a deadline (reading for quantity), for some its bragging material (reading to boast). I do neither. I read for fun.

>>8307039
I'm quoting myself apparently. I deleted my original post because of a typo.

>>8306974
>>8307014

>Can't do challenges because pirate ebooks and the pages are usually off

>>8307106
How do you think goodreads works?
I pirate everything and still do challenges

>>8307106
I never worry about the number of pages. I add a random edition almost every time.

>>8306939

Yep.
Unemployment is going well.

>>8306866
So it was written by a feminist then?

>>8307163

Ughh, no?
Feminism wants to make women free, not slaves, it's anti-feminist

>>8306866

Thanks for the recommendation

>>8307158
Sadly I'm no longer neet. That 42 is what I could squeeze in.

Finished elantris and warbreaker, where does this budding Sandersonfag go next?

>>8307144
>tfw you autistically go through your list and make all the covers match the ones you have

>>8306959
Noice. Is it true he has Andre Breton as a character?

Why doesn't /sffg/ have a list of underrated books if most people read more than what's on the existing lists? There's got to be at least some recent stuff that isn't bad, I know shitreads has a lot of these lists but it's a nightmare to browse through their reviews.

>>8307275
Are you confident of fortune on your side my rebellious friend?

Any good fantasy about little black girls?

>>8306792
Hah, yes. I did real BotNS but it was long ago. I had this quote written in my notebook and found it while browsing around and decided to it implement it because it encompasses well the wisdom and modesty of the father.

>>8306786
Why doesn't it make sense? It's a simple concept.
>the man looks fairly simple
>but is not a simple man
>is wise and complex
>he acts and dresses and moves with his own idea of simplicity
Anyway there are very few interactions with the father and this line is probably irrelevant, but I like it nonetheless. Not sure why you don't like it yourself.

>>8307301
This is more like oddly specific weird niche stuff.

>>8307359
Indeed. It doesn't even warn you about the bad ones.

>>8307247
See if you like rithamist

>>8307275
See if you like anything.

>>8307335
Jay Lake's Green is about a brown little girl.

>>8307247

>>8307443
For anyone new, this is a troll list of books to avoid. Don't pay it any mind.

>start playing Etrian Odyssey IV
>base the name of your characters, guild, and skyship off of a YA trilogy featuring a young female protagonist

>>8307781
k

>>8307781
Makes sense that Sandersonfags play video games.

>>8307807
I don't think gaming in itself has a causal relationship with shit taste.

>>8307346
The line is needlessly complex. You could say "He stood the way a wise man imagined a simple man would stand" and it would be better sounding and more digestible, without compromising the meaning of the sentence.

>>8307815
Correlative for sure. Just look at reddit.

>>8305779
Honestly Best Served Cold and The Heroes are way better than the First Law Trilogy. The First Law Trilogy itself pretty overrated, but the two standalones that follow it are pretty good. Unfortunately Red Country is a snoozefest despite it being way shorter than the two previous books.

I have a copy of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, will reading that allow me to enjoy Hyperion all the more? It says that the structure is similar to Canterbury Tales and Giovanni Boccaccio's Decameron

>>8306786
Yes well done Sherlock, that's because he's telling you, not showing you.

>>8306467

Mate I put the Kelsier thing in a spoiler tag for a reason, Secret History is meant to be a secret!

I know there's more magic on Roshar but none of it is super creative, at least IMO. It's all a bit too discrete for me.

100% agree hemalurgy is going to be the end-game magic. By the third Mistborn trilogy I bet we'll be seeing people steal surgebindings via spikes, and crazy stuff like that.

The Scadrial magic is easily the most interesting IMO, especially with the developments in The Bands of Mourning.

Have you read Sixth of the Dusk? You get to see Scadrial people on spaceships in the future.

>>8307247

Read the Emperor's Soul, it's shorter than either of those, but possibly his best work.

If you want to try one of his series, go Mistborn (first book is The Final Empire) or Stormlight Archive (first book is Way of Kings).

>>8307931
>go Mistborn
Stop trolling newbies.

>>8307915
No, other characters converging to one place to tell stories. Hyperion has 7 stories (I think) and decameron has 10 characters of whom each tells multiple stories, 10 if I remember correctly.
Canterbury Tales are an English version of Decameron.

>The cover has a cute grill's bare feet on the cover
I'm sold!

If what they say is true, and Abu Bakker finished The Unholy Consult back in 2013, what has he been writing for the last 3 years?

>>8308060

Blog posts about Trump, apparently.

>>8308060

He realized "the unholy consult" was going to be way too long so it was split into TGO/TUC and that was what caused the trouble with his publisher.

TUC has only recently been completed apparently.

>>8308150

So like GRRM but without the fat and endless waiting.

Is Harry Potter the only fantasy to transcend the genre?

>>8308193

This has to be the weakest bait I have ever seen. Are you even trying?

>>8308182
Jew publishers LOVE to fuck with popular fantasy series by shifting content around.

Bakker blogs about weird shit, but at least he writes. GRRM blogs about football and goes to conventions.

>>8308060
I read that Rothfuss finished his trilogy 14 years before the first book was published. It took him 7 years to write it, then 7 years to rewrite the first book, 4 years to rewrite the second, and 5 years later there's no sign of the third. And it isn't even a good series.

>>8308274
>And it isn't even a good series.

Ok... that's just not true...

>>8308274
He actually just watched his beard grow and then retconned the books

>>8308292
>I managed very little sleep that night, and Losi came closer to killing me than Felurian ever had. She was a delightful partner, every bit as wonderful as Felurian had been.

>But how could that be? I hear you ask. How could any mortal woman compare with Felurian?

>It is easier to understand if you think of it in terms of music. Sometimes a man enjoys a symphony. Elsetimes he finds a jig more suited to his taste. The same holds true for lovemaking. One type is suited to the deep cushions of a twilight forest glade. Another comes quite naturally tangled in the sheets of narrow beds upstairs in inns. Each woman is like an instrument, waiting to be learned, loved, and finely played, to have at last her own true music made.

>Some might take offense at this way of seeing things, not understanding how a trouper views his music. They might think I degrade women. They might consider me callous, or boorish, or crude.

>But those people do not understand love, or music, or me.

>>8308072
>Trump is a Dunyain
This makes far too much sense

>>8308314

Sounds like it was written by a greasy, oily, sweaty neckbeard who never actually fucked a 3D woman in his life and idealised the act until it became shrouded in myth and legend.

>>8307729
You changed back to your old way of trolling?

>>8307939
>>8307729
What are you adding to these threads?

>>8308350
Saving people with taste from reading horrible books.

>>8308354
Multiple people asked you time and time again, post your recs. But you never do, you are just a troll from outer /lit/ who is bored.

Why do female authors write better male characters than male authors write female?

>>8308314
>there's people on this board that consider this garbage good

>>8308292
>Ok... that's just not true...
It's the consensus opinion dude

>>8308314
Man I quit the books before he even had sex because I'd had enough of the shite in them

Looks like I didn't even scratch the surface

>>8308372
Because females talk to men

>>8308384
second book is all about him have sex with an ancient sex fairy (and being so good so is impressed even though he's 15 and she's thousands of years old)

he also learns kung fu from ninja sex girls who don't even know that fucking a man makes them pregnant

plot is nowhere to be found

>>8308391
He was still at uni when I gave up on the second book

I give Abercrombie a lot of shit for having trope inversions and little else but Rothfuss is much worse. He's so caught up in the idea of subverting the hero's journey/tale telling framework that he fails to ever make his books interesting

Main protagonist is/always claims to be perfect is an incredibly hard thing to write well and it's really painful to read when it's done badly

>>8308323
Looks like he has a son named Oot. Feel sorry for the kid desu.

>>8308402
Oot.
What a name.
His daddy must have benised him as a kid for him to name his son Oot.

>>8308402
>>8308415
It's not actually the kid's name, he uses it because he doesn't want the internet knowing his kid's details

>>8308419
Oh, that makes sense. Still probably not his kid though.

>>8308423
His wife's son

>>8308424

Yeah if any sff writer is a cucc, it's probably Rothfuss.

>have the best idea for a SF novel mankind will ever think of
>can't write
>it will go with me into my grave
Maybe in my next reincarnation.

>>8308454
Reincarnation doesn't exist.

>>8308454
>You have no idea what to write and typing up a 3k word piece of Shit after 5 hours once in a blue moon makes you feel like you just wrote WoT

>>8307817
But the way you wrote it is infinitely more dull and doesn't serve the narrative well enough for me.
But point taken, I understand the criticism coming my way and I see what you see, and understand where I have made the mistake.
I'll post part 2 and 3 next thread because part 2 is very short and although part 3 has some of the heaviest prose I have ever written and deals with the heaviest themes in the story, it also ties directly with the ending and is a direct continuation from part 2. Hopefully there are some who are not overwhelmed by such prose, eh?

>>8307840
For the first 5 books he got better with each one. Agreed that Red Country was a disappointment. I think he needs to move onto something new, and I don't mean the YA fantasy series, I mean like sci fi or something.

>>8308391
I was ok with it until this part, then yeah, just goes to total shit when the fairy appears to the end of the book. Also doesn't bother explaining how the female sex ninjas are all far superior in combat ability to the male ones apart for "they're faster" or some shit? And they're not even supposed to be a different species for any of the weird shit to make sense, pretty sure even dogs know how pregnancy works anyway.

Who is the Trump of SFF?

>>8308577
Goodkind

>>8308577

Melkor or Shai'Tan.

Just read The Prince of Nothing trilogy.

Not bad 7/10.

> be me, Achamian
> most powerful mandate schoolman
> can level armies with my power
> have discovered the ultimate threat to mankind
> always feel sorry for myself because woman

Is there a fucking novel that the main character(s) doesn't continually feel sorry for themselves??

>>8308577
Typhon

what is best time travelling sci-fi book?

>>8308702
End of Eternity, Asimov

>>8308577
Anasûrimbor Kellhus

>>8308577
Mallick Rel.

Why are these threads so comfy lads

>>8308800
Because they're fucking dead

>>8308803
/lit/ is a slow board

>>8308800
because of the cosmerebros chilling out

speaking of, i finished secret history and white sand v1 today. ive officially read everything officially published in the cosmere. feels good man.

>>8308672
Akka a good boy he did nothing wrong.
Dunyain genocide best day of my life.

Also time to get started on Aspect Emperor

>>8308800
Because unlike the rest of /lit/ sffg makes no claim to be unreasonable high brow fucktards.
We like fantasy and sf which is the lowest form of literature possible according to some.
It's like the tavern of /lit/ with all the ne'er-do-wells and rapscallions.

>>8308861
>white sand v1
I read that a few days ago

it was ok I guess but I'm not really into comics, not sure if I'll persist

>>8308672
Is that book really worth it? I'm minutes away from falling into this /sff/ meme.

>>8307928
>Secret History
We knew Kelsier was still alive during HoA.

>none of it is super creative
We don't even know how 2/3rds of it works yet.

>The Scadrial magic is easily the most interesting IMO
It's the most developed and explored, yeah. I'm curious to see how FTL travel will function, as well as some other things in the future as they discover more alloys. Soulforging is incredibly strong, and some other Selish magics.

>Sixth of the Dusk
Those aren't 100% guaranteed Scadrians but it is the most likely candidate for the position, yes.

>>8308350
Don't respond to shitposters, newfriend.

>>8308463
Sure it does. Matter cannot be destroyed. However, there is no way as of yet to retain memories upon rebirth.

>>8308861
>>8308886
White Sand was lackluster but it's
>the first third of a new Sanderson story
so nothing will happen until Volume 3, maaaaybe the ending bits of Volume 2.

>>8308880
Having a sense of superiority about what fiction you consume is pretty retarded desu, but it's not surprising that lit-grads need to feel that way.

>>8309010
read the prologue, it's posted above. It's a complicated book that makes you think, most people don't appreciate that ... If you are willing to put in the work and keep an open mind, you will probably like the series. If you want a relaxed ,wish fulfillment series , you won't.

>>8307815
>>8307807
Nornally yes but EO is a fucking great series that's outside the normiesphere

>>8309062
>complicated
Maybe if you've never read an actually complicated book

>>8309062
I've read the Stormlight Archive in English and I really enjoyed it.

I've never lived in an Anglo country and my Native language is obviously not English.

Will I still be able to enjoy it? Or is it the plot that's complicated?

>>8308543
I think the issue with Red Country was his characters. Abercrombie doesn't really have much plot in his books. His books are just characters and trope inversions so if the characters are flat then the books will fall apart. All the interesting characters in Red Country were sidelined as secondaries. We had Cosca, Logen, and Shivers all appearing in the same book, but yet the book was boring and the final showdown between Logen and Shivers which has been building up since book 2 was as anti climatic as you could get. I think Abercrombie was afraid to lose one of his fan favorites so he just had them depart peacefully. Maybe Logen kills Shivers, or Shivers kills Logen. Maybe they both kill other in the duel which actually probably would have been the better option, but instead we just have them burying the hatchet. I know the reason why Shivers let him go, but it's still one of the most anti climatic chapters I have ever read.

>>8307335
Not sure if it's any good (haven't started it yet) but you could try Max Gladstone's Craft Sequence series.

>>8309067
>no idea how to skill my party beyond using the skill sim to check for some diminishing returns and using the EOIV pastebin to figure out an idea of what skills are okay on which classes
>general and threads absolutely refuse to simply tell me how many points to put into which skills
I'm gonna fuck something up at any time AHHHHHHHH

>>8309069
Well of course, you can find some philosophy books that are more complicated...but we are talking about SFF.

Can you name a SFF book/series that's more ambitious and in depth as the second apocalypse ? And no, Dune and Wolfe come close but Bakker exceeds them.

>>8309078
English isn't my native language either. When I first read the series more than 3 years ago I didn't "get it". I was used to stuff like Mistborn,wheel of time and so on.

Firstly, every character here is "realistic" if you look deep enough. Because the world is a shitty place most characters here are unlikable. You won't find great people in an African ghetto and you won't find great people in a ravaged world like Bakker created.

If you can accept that, you are good to go! Also understand that you need some philosophical training to fully appreciate everything, because many of his ideas are taken from other philosophers.

If you want to enjoy it I recommend reading things slowly and taken a break every few chapters and rereading if something didn't make sense. Also use your imagination and try to figure out what happens. You are entering a new world 100% blind, so you don't really know what to expect...but if you make an effort you can guess a lot of things.

First time I was really confused and kinda understood whats up, I reread the series again and it made much more sense. This is "end game" SFF, so if you have easy series to read finish them first. It's worth it,one of the best series arround, in my opinion.

>>8309078
The language isn't complicated, it's ordinary sentences with drivel to replace certain words to trick idiots into thinking he is smart.

>>8309078
It's not THAT complicated.

He can get a little purple prosy at times, but it's one of the best fantasy series written after 2000

>>8309126
>Dune and Wolfe come close but Bakker exceeds them.
You're gonna need some serious backing on this claim, especially with Dune.

>>8309126

>Bakker exceeds Wolfe

Nigger please

>>8309126
Nigga wolfe is studied by actual big boy proper critics

Bakker struggles to even get reviewed

>>8309126
>Bakker better than Wolfe

Wew lad, I shilled Bakker at the start of every thread for the last month, and even I know you need to walk that back

>>8309137
>>8309142

the language isn't complicated, but the concepts are. It's the type of book that has a lot of depth, so there are plenty of things to figure out.

>>8309146
Well, to me it's a question of size. I have read Wolfe and I liked him a lot, however his series is limited(by word count, I mean). Dune has more books ( I read the first 4-5 ? ) and it's also dense, but again it's shorter and less dense.

Bakker has been writing this series for 30 years. Each book reveals more about the world and completely shakes up your previous beliefs.

If you where to read the first book, the first and second, first second and third etc you would have more and more revelations about the first one(each time you read another book) It's just so dense.

If I where to judge ambition/complexity/depth it would be something like this:

10-Completed Bakker ( 6 published novels + 3-4 remaining ones + short stories)

8-Bakker as is

5-6-Dune (first 4-5 books)

4-5-BOTNS


BEFORE getting triggered, this is a relative list, so 4-5 for BOTNS still means it's an insanely in depth series.

>>8309178

You are deluded of you think Bakker comes anywhere near Herbert let alone Wolfe.

This is why people condescend to fantasy readers

>>8309178
>4-5-BOTNS

Long Sun, Four Books
Short Sun, Three Books

The entire "Solar Cycle" is 12 books

>>8309178
Pages don't really have any correlation between depth of concepts and hardly limit anything.
Having 8 books doesn't imply or even correlate to quality, it's the exact opposite.

>>8309186
They are separated narratives and each deals with different things, there are common elements, but it's more like 3 books each 900 pages split for publishing reasons.
>>8309184
I don't like the ghettoisation of the thread by the people who post here either.

>>8309178
>judging by length
Symbols and Signs is like two pages long and more complex than the Harry Potter series

Okay people there's your actual proof

The people who keep spamming Bakker are absolute idiots

>>8309202
>They are separated narratives and each deals with different things, etc

So why did you count Bakker's short stories in his number?

>>8309208

I never doubted it for a second, not after seeing those excerpts of absolute shit prose.

>>8309208
Couldn't you tell by the fact they like Bakker in the first place?

>waaah what I read is better than what you read

Shut the fuck up retards

>>8309150
>>8309160
>>8309174

learn to read. Better than Wolfe when it comes to depth and complexity.

The Book of the New Sun 390k
Shadow and Claw: 195k
Sword and Citadel: 195k
Bakker Total: 1042k (Estimated 1500-2000k)
Prince of Nothing

The Darkness that Comes Before: 175k
The Warrior-Prophet: 205k
The Thousandfold Thought: 139k

Total: 519k

The Aspect-Emperor 523l

The Judging Eye: 151k
The White-Luck Warrior: 202k
The great ordeal: 170k

You really want to tell me Wolfe has more depth and complexity than bakker? It is impossible...Objectively speaking, ignoring quality or preference, Bakker's novel have more depth and complexity.

>>8309222
Quality =/= quantity

Just stop senpai you're making bakker look bad

>>8309222
You don't even get what depth and complexity are supposed to be.

>>8309222
I don't know what you think those words mean but it's not that

>It's a "newfags obsessively respond to other newfags because they all demand getting the last word in" book
Oh boy oh boy.

>>8309233
Posting an quote by bakker does it for him.

>>8309182
>>8309190
>>8309203
>>8309208
>>8309213
>>8309214

I am absolutely sure you guys never read Bakker. Even if you hate him it's impossible to deny he has created a massive and complex world. Even if his "average depth/complexity" if half that of Wolfe, he still beats him by scale alone.

And I will repeat, because most of you don't know how to read. I am only speaking about complexity and depth. Not about enjoyment, quality of prose,or anything else...

Also, his "random words" are there because he has the balls to create a completely different world. I would think Wolfe fans would appreciate that. That's why you are bombarded with "shitty names" from the first page. Bakker trusts you ( the reader) to figure shit out without being spoon fed and taken trough "safe paths" so you don't get lost...

>>8309246
Name a better written modern fantasy

>>8309210
ANSWER MY QUESTION YOU STUPID SLUT

>>8309249
Iron Dragons Daughter
>>8309248
Creating a massive world is in itself completely worthless, just like Bakker.
He has the balls to do the same thing every fantasy does.
His prose is complete trash and having new names in no way excuses that.
Tolkien had them too, yet his works aren't trash full of made up nonsense because it sounds complicated.
He isn't even original.

>>8309233
am I talking about quality? you are making yourself look bad.

>>8309235
It's pretty clear. If 3 people read the first trilogy, each one of them will have different opinions on how things work and what really happened. That is complexity and depth. Bakker (wolfe and others) write in a way so that there's no "true answer". Comparing them to Sanderson (the simplest example) will reveal to you what I'm talking about. You can read mistborn a dozen times and you won't find anything new hidden away in the text...

>>8309239
what words? My comment is pretty clear

>>8309246
I don't care about prose so I can't judge. What matters for me is the story and characters. If the writer manages to get the point across I will be happy. If you care about prose there the SFF genre is not for you.

>>8309268
>1993

Bakker is the best post 2000 fantasy writer

>>8309268
Yeah that definitely isn't better.

>>8309268
oh come on, you have to be trolling here...Compare Bakker to every other popular SFF writer. Few of them (Erikson is a good example) have the balls to drop you in an alien world. Bakker:

a) Starts out his story with incomprehensible names
b) Has a lot of dense prose (even if you think it sucks)
c) Rapes a child in the prologue
d) Doesn't fall for the "strong women" meme, essentially making every women character a whore and weak,realistic in the world he created.(in the beginning at least)
e)Uses plenty of RGI in his books, not caring about the readers sensibilities
f)Has a great focus on philosophy, something most readers don't care about

and so on... This is like a how to guide to write niche and unpopular fantasy. Also, every one of his characters is unlikable with a terribly depressing world and story.

If this is "similar" to every other fantasy and really not original, I have no clue what you have been reading...because you clearly missed 90% of SFF out there.

>>8309305
why are you seriously arguing with trolls, he's obviously one of the best new authors but people hate everything here

>>8309327
Bakker is one of the better ones but putting him on the level of Herbert and Wolfe is just not happening. Not yet anyway

>>8309340
That's just like your opinion bud. I think he's better than both.

>>8309344
lol good thing that is an opinion

>>8309344
>>8309340
He's in their range but definitely not surpassing them.

>>8309327
I don't know...maybe I need to get used to all the hating. This place surely has a worse troll/discussion ratio than before...Bakker is not even my favorite author yet I got "triggered" by people constantly talking nonsense...

>>8309222
...so at 3,325k Malazan is really depthy and the complexist?

>>8309348
I'm the guy who started this conversation. I was only talking about depth and complexity, and I think Bakker has more than those two. Is he a better writer? As someone who doesn't care about prose that much, BOTNS was sublime when it came to that...While outdated in some respects, Dune was incredibly original as well..

So it's hard to compare them as authors, because they write different types of stories....but when It comes to depth (how I measure it at least) Bakker takes the cake. Considering his series is about 60-70% complete and assuming he won't turn into a shitty writer overnight(or die) his world will only get bigger and more complex. There are still so many questions left unanswered.

>>8309367
You really need to carefully define "depth" and "complexity", I think that's what sent this conversation ff the rails.

>>8309354
well, compare Malazan to Wheel of time(similar length) and you will see the former is much more complex and deep. It ain't just about word count but about writing style and themes.

I am saying however that Bakker explores a lot of themes and ideas, and even if he is 50% "less deep" than Wolfe, he still beats him by numbers alone.

>>8309367
You might as well tripfag with how obvious your posts are chart anon.

>>8309374
He is one of the plebs who thinks "world building" and general edge are somehow deep and original, alongside shit writing.

>>8309374
well, it's hard to be objective...I mean, you could dissect the series and analyze each scene and somehow judge how deep and complex something is...

When I say that, I mean there are a lot of ideas discussed in Bakkers work. The best place to discuss this is the ASOIAF forums literature board. Over the years there are thousands and thousands of posts and theories discussed. If after a 5 year hiatus you still have theories to discuss and discover, it means he is doing something right, no ?

The greatest point ( in my view) is that these people discuss what already happened not just what will happen. There are plenty of theories about just about every popular novel (asoiaf is probably the biggest example) but few of them focus on philosophy,metaphysics etc and so on.

>>8309375
You are defining depth complexity such that:
Body of work A is 50% deep/complex with length 201
Body of work B is 100% deep/complex with length 100
Therefore A is more deep/complex than B?

>>8309386
>but few of them focus on philosophy,metaphysics etc and so on
Because Bakker fans don't read philosophy and he himself is a failed philosopher.

>>8309398
>he himself is a failed philosopher.
Huh? All he did was study philosophy then stop to pursue his writing career. How does that equate to being a 'failed philosopher'?

>>8309378
I honestly have no clue what you mean. "posts are chart"? ?

>>8309380
I think writing a series,making a movie, video game etc where people can discuss ideas is not an easy thing to do.

Surely, every work of art has this to some extent, but discussion about Mistborn and BOTNS has a really different character.

Lets say you and your buddies read Wolfe and discuss him for a few weeks. After a while you get bored and read Mistborn. Your discussions will be completely different. First of all, much less "what if" scenarios. Much less "what does that really mean? "and much less "why/how?".

If you can't see the difference between those two series, than there's not much to be said. If you can't read Bakker and acknowledge it has similar qualities than you have bias. You can accept that his novels,characters, prose suck but to say he isn't a complex and deep writer is just stupid or dishonest.

I hated Blindsight ( hated the other book even more, had to drop it) but I can still accept and see what kind of book it was. Can you do the same for Bakker?

New thread when?

New

>>8309414
>>8309414
>>8309414

>>8309404
Writing a paper so awful it gets rejected in Canada is a fucking failure

>>8309388
yep.

Body of work A is 50% deep/complex with length 201
Add 200 pages of fluff

Body of work A is 25% deep/complex with length 401. It has the same complexity though. If you take Wolfe and add a couple of chapters of Sevarian just chilling out with his buddies not doing anything, does the series become less deep/complex ?

>>8309398
I don't see the point of that comment. It's a fantasy work with philosophy elements, you will get more out of it if you know philosophy, but it's not a requierment.

>>8309420
what paper? what are you talking about ?

>>8309010
Turn back now, there's still time

>hating on based Kvothe

I can't believe you fags don't like the GOAT.

>>8309837
He's not even as fun as other mary sues like Vaelin

>>8309837
This is a 18+ year old board son.