/lit/ - Literature

>>8296714
Arnold. Not even kidding.

>>8296738
Yeah, this really is a good answer.

>>8296747
He is close in many ways. In modern terms he's excelled in the arts & public life. He's used his will to shape his own form...

Along the same lines, maybe Bruce Lee?

>>8296754
Mishima, Socrates, Da Vinci, Arnold and Lee are all overmen.

>>8296754
>he's excelled in the arts

>>8296754
Thing is, Arnold didn't just excel in various fields, he bent them to his will. He was never the "best" bodybuilder, but if you watch "pump iron" you'll see just how alpha he was, and how that made him win - playing mind games on his opponents, even dominating his "friends", never actually respecting them as his equal. Being an asshole that does what it takes to win. Likewise he didn't excel in Hollywood due to his acting skills, and was told that he would never star in a film - but gaining financial strength trough real estate, and using his established status as a symbol of masculinity, he forced himself into the market till the point where he became (and still is) the most famous and iconic actor of all time. The same in politics.

Such an icon of ambition and sheer masculinity.

Undeniably

>>8296738
funny, I'm just reading his autobiography and came here to post this

it's funny that his image is basically a musclehead but it's actually pretty obvious he's exceedingly sharp

>>8296780
come on, I like arnold but don't exaggerate

>the most famous and iconic actor of all time. The same in politics
>even dominating his "friends", never actually respecting them as his equal. Being an asshole that does what it takes to win

lmao

>>8296787
Name one actor that is more famous and recognizable than Arnold.
And yeah, watch Pumping Iron. The guy is a fucking asshole that doesn't see his friends as "friends", more like his "pack" that should follow him, not compete with him.

>>8296787
I agree on some fronts though - as said, he wasn't nessecarily the best bodybuilder or actor, but he bent the forms to his will, he became the best (& he was very dominant in films for a while). De Nero/Pachino/Brando maybe better actors, but are they whole men? Actually Brando is an interesting case.

I feel the hyperbole is more over Arnold the politician, it seems he couldn't bend it to his will & left dissapointed.

>>8296782
>speaks like a 3rd grader
>bought a mortgage company before the GFC
>fat as fuck
>can't even properly comb his hair

Yeah nah m8

>>8296782
Obviously contensious. But on his own merits, is he really an ubermentch? He's excelled in business & entertainment. His body is a fucking mess. How does he measure up when stood next to Arnold/Lee overall? I'm on the fence on him at the moment.

>>8296804
>Name one actor that is more famous and recognizable than Arnold.

are you serious? deniro, pitt, dicaprio, eastwood, brando, cruise for starters

>>8296827
I did like the revenant.

>>8296827

>>8296804
>And yeah, watch Pumping Iron. The guy is a fucking asshole that doesn't see his friends as "friends", more like his "pack" that should follow him, not compete with him.

m8, pumping iron is an entertainment flick, not a true-to-life documentary. are you 16? arnold is a showman first and foremost and he and everyone else making that film knew that they needed to create a story and larger than life characters for the film. they exagerrated everyone's personality because the film's point was to entertain, sell and create publicity. it's as real as WWE is real

>>8296831
Wait, WWE isnt real?

>>8296827
tbf, none of those are close to Swartzenegger's global fame. Everyone knows who he is, even in some shithole in Africa.

Every single one of the girls in pic related is fluent in 4 languages & in peak (albiet starved & enhanced) physical condition. Can anyone even begin to reach for the overman if they've not gain basic mastery over their own body & mind?

>>8296846
true, but that's not due to his acting. it's more of the total package, of which acting is only a part. if you ask people to name male actors, they'll say several names before arnold

>>8296846
A pedant writes; Tom Cruise is. Is Cruise a superman? He certainly wants to be...

>>8296857

>Tomanlet Cruise

>Overman

>>8296860
H-he's thetan free!

I'm sure Napoleon also qualifies, at least according to Raskolnikov.

>Who is closest to beign Nietzsche's Overman?
Donald Trump.

>>8296860
"Tomanlet"
cute but in the end Tomanlet still pounds such pussy in real life on a daily basis as you will not even see once up close in your own entire real life

>>8296894
See thread above & contribute.

D'annunzio

>>8296887
Nietzsche himself saw Napoleon as an overman

>>8296900

Good for him but the Overman isn't defined by how much pussy he gets and the question of the thread was...?

Man all this was sad to read. I don't know why I keep reading shitty threads.

Like, you know, people saying that Arnold is an Übermensch. What a shitty understanding of the concept of Übermensch. But I guess it is normal ig you have not read any Nietzsche, of course.

>>8297322
o ingenious nietzche-reading anon please elaborate why arnold isn't an ubermench candidate

It's Arnold

>>8297322
Let's hear it

>>8297344
Putin is the highest form of Ubermensch, he controls the public life and arts (movies), and by his will he's been in charge of russia for over 20 years. I don't know if he's fit, but he probably is (kgb agent)
>>8296782
Donald is by habits an Ubermensch, he doesn't drink anything but water, he's 70 year old and looks like a 50. Yet in many ways he fails, being fat and not having a proper oral expression. He does bend his own public image by will

>>8297337
>>8297416

Are the values pursued by Arnold seftcreated or sociallymaked? Are they Arnold-values or just values from socoety? There is a big misunderstanding in that point: it is not doing and succedding in whatever you want, because that values will not be of your propierty, but being able yo create and produce new and individual forms of life. Fitness acting politics were not invented by Arnold.

My english is shitty also my way of expressing myself, but I guess it can be understood.

derrida may be because he created a new set of symbols and ways of expression and by induction, of being

>>8297483
>value exists
get a hold on this bourgeois

>>8297483
So you have to be original to be Über? That sounds like bullshit. Nothing is original or everything is.

>>8297483
>but being able yo create and produce new and individual forms of life.
'no'

>>8297499
Yeah, of course all of this is bourgeois, but it is since we are talking about philosophy or philosophers. Anyway top post anon.

Musashi

>>8297504
Not in the hegelian sense of the word but in the life affirming of the uniqueness of being of the individual sense. I guess following the standards of success tjat society impose to you is not nietzchian at all. But maybe it is only my opinion.

>>8297500
Yeah, genuine. Heiddegger make some good points about this

Jesus.

>>8297518
Probably one of the most correct answers.

>>8297516
But didn't Arnold become a genuine actor representing the national spirit after the vietnam war?

>>8296738
Not really.

>>8296782
>>8296894
fucking no lol

>>8296850
stop trolling
The Ubermensch is about as close to metaphysics as Nietzsche gets. The Ubermensch is not simply a person but is an ideal. The Ubermensch transcends the master/slave dialectic. The Ubermensch is not necessarily an antagonist of the herd as the free spirit is for it is too far above the herd, which sets the last man as their ideal. The Ubemensch is not some metahuman or posthuman creation but a vision of a man who has climbed higher on that rope between apes and gods, a vision of a man who can look down upon man below him, dangling on that rope above the abyss. We can look to the Ubermensch as a goal, or to the Last Man. We can aspire to the oak or to the dandelion.

The Ubermensch is not about Macht. Not Kraft. Kraft is the power of controlling other people and manipulation while Macht (as seen in the Der Wille Zur Macht formulation) is a more spiritual, essential, and intrinsic kind of power. Just controlling people is petty and the Ubermensch likely has little to no interest in it.

>>8296714
Cesare Borgia

Fredrick Barbarossa
Charlemagne
Attila The Hun
Moses

Kanye West


Napoleon Bonaparte

>>8296714
Frank Yang

He's read and understood all the profound philosophers like Kant, has an exceptional understanding of life, good political opinions, and is a shredded fuarkin cunt

>>8298636
>gymrats
>ubermensch

wrong priorities mate, they might as well be literal women

>>8296829
As did I. It was "too violent" for the people I saw it with, but I thoroughly enjoyed it.

Plato and maybe Evola

>>8296850
9 > 8 > 5 > 6 > 4 > 7 > 3 > 2 > 1

>>8297535
so not arnold, putin, nor napoleon, and i think technically jesus doesn't count. maybe he does, not sure. in any case, isn't the overman supposed to not be achievable by any actual human? just an ideal, a perfection to point towards?

Bismarck

>>8299016
Jesus is the anti-ubermensch. The denial of the self and the will to power, where the ubermensch is the ultimate expression of self.

And yes, of course it's an ideal. "Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman." It's the same sort of concept as the new soviet man: an entirely new kind of humanity.

>>8298645
The thing with heads of state especially brutal and confrontational ones like Xi is that they're deprived of the moral-philosophical framework because of their sociopathic conviction so they technically can't be an Ubermensch

>>8296714
isnt the overman an ironic pastiche of jesus christ?

>>8300509
postmoralism is pretty uber senpai

Adolf Hitler

>>8296714
>even the greatest i found all-too-human
something even more inhuman than napoleon

>>8296714
me

not even kidding lmao

>>8297459
If he's an overman, why is he a midget?

>>8297459
>>8301498
Putin isn't an overman in any sense of the word, while I don't blame you guys for your image of him as a tough badass polymath, it is just an image fed to westerners like yourselves

He's a puppet irl, he bends shit, he's so heavily in the pockets of mafia and chechen forces that they basically own him#

Dunno about Trump

>>8296714
Nikola Tesla desu

>>8298636
>Frank Yang
Fucker can't even play violin properly.

>not wanting to be der letzte Mensch

>>8296714
He's fictional, but Nietzsche's overman is more-or-less based on Achilles. The consummate self-creating individual who feels life in its complete unmediated purity.

Who is most like Achilles nowadays? Probably some sports star, one of the last fields of society where the Greek idea of excellence is still celebrated.

I would say Muhammad Ali.

How close are we to the last man?

>>8302133
Nearly there I'd say. Or maybe I'm just growing disillusioned with the world.

>>8302111
>Achilles
>fictional

>>8297535

You should stop pretending you have a functional grasp of German. Macht is political and certainly not some hogwash "spiritual" power, your whole distinction of Kraft and Macht is laughable. Go back to your Penguin paperbacks and read some more "Nietzsche" you idiot.

>>8296714
Goethe was his model basically iirc

Not Socrates. A chunk of The Twilight of the Idols is concerned with Socrates in this respect. N's writings possibly suggest Catiline, Caesar and Goethe. Maybe Shakespeare. Definitely not Socrates.

I'm frankly surprised N didn't write more about Diogenes. Nietzsche is basically a blend of Diogenes and Stirner, with a veneer of Goethe

>>8301498
Mishima was 5'1