/lit/ - Literature

Theon is probably dead. And even if he's not, he's definitely not in any state to return. Also, since the book is concurrent with AFFC, he won't return or we would have heard about it in AFFC.

>>817416
>Roose Bolton
I believe you mean his bastard, Ramsay. Also, I think that Theon's uncles are way more interesting than he is. George updated his blog to reflect that Loras Tyrell has been cast for the HBO series.

at some point I want Gregor to die a horrible bloody death, preferably by the hands of Sandor

also, what does /lit/ think about the casting of Loras? I've never seen Finn Jones act (never watched Hollyoaks), any opinions?

Bran will go with Coldhands and find that three eyed crow, or at least one of the children of the forest or something.
Apart from that, I have absolutely no idea.

>>817429
>t some point I want Gregor to die a horrible bloody death, preferably by the hands of Sandor

I...I just don't even know what to say to this.

>>817429
Bro, Gregor died in AFFC.
And Sandor is not fit to fight anyone by now.

>>817424
He's a confirmed POV character. He is forced to take the identity of Ramsay's manservant.

>>817438
Then I have no idea. But I prefer him being flayed.

>>817434
shit, I've forgotten
been ages since I read these books
all is well then

>>817429
You mean Franken-Gregor?

>>817443
Too bad we have to wait until book 6 to find out what happens with that.

>>817441
All that was confirmed was a flayed hand. I think. What's with George RR Martin and hand injuries? The Onion Knight, Qhorin the Half-Hand, and now Theon.

>>817437

I have a rule for books. Unless I see an actual body or see the words"THEY ARE DEAD" by a close friend who happens to be near the body, then I don't think they're dead. Yes they said that they were sending Dorne his head, but Ceresi also said that she had a champion that no man could beat, but was not part of the kingsguard. I'm guessing this is actually Sandor.

Franken-Gregor vs. Monk Sandor. WHO WILL WIN?

>>817458
Not to mention Jaime.

>>817459
Sandor is at the Isle of Hope or whatever it's called, with the monks.
What probably happened is Qyburn used Gregor's body, and the bodies of his other subjects to make some sort of Frankenstein thing.

>>817469
And the guy Jaime modeled his golden hand after. Damn.

I want to see some of the surviving brotherhood without banners get caught and sent to the wall. Send Cersai there too, why not?

>>817495
can't send women, yo.

>>817495
>>817495
Eh, it's heavily hinted at that Jaime will kill Cersei. The Lannisport woman's prophecy, etc.

>>817509
Oh shit, I thought that was talking about Tyrion.
And so did she, actually.
That's clever.

>>817506
I guess just Karmically kill her off then. Maybe drop her off a tall tower.

Don't look at this spoiler if you don't want the biggest part of the following books to be reveiled:

[Spoiler]We'll learn that there is indeed a person with royal blood still left at the Wall: Jon Snow. Jon Snow's mother is Lyanna Stark and his father Rhaegar Targaryen.[/Spoiler]

>>817459
So Benjen Stark is still alive then?

>>817531
>implying that is canon fact and not just popular fan speculation

>>817531
That seems too fantasy cliche though. I would prefer that Jon's mother was just some random villager and his dad was actually Benjen.

>>817534
>>817545
There's a fair amount of evidence for it, bro.

>>817548
I agree with it (Three heads of the dragon and all that, reestablishment of the Targaryen line, etc.) but you can't carry on as if its already been written.

>>817551
Oh, for sure.

How can anyone like Theon?

>>817563
He'd be my favorite character if he had the balls to kill Bran and HODOR HODOR HODOR. Fuck...

>>817563
I second this, Theon is a backstabbing jerk who deserves everything that's happening to him and more. Betrayal of loyalty is a terrible crime.

I want this guy to be sent to the Wall too. Like he's been captured and ignored for forever and they just ship him to the Wall. I could live with him escaping or something too, though.

>>817579
If he hasn't died already, he'll be joining Arya in Braavos. There would be no other reason to justify his inclusion in the story.

Damn..I think I need to read these books again.
Dance is coming out next year right guize?

>>817563
I don't really know why. I like his back story, I guess. I never really liked any of the Starks.

I sure like them books.

>>817427
Theon's whole family is fuckwin.

One-Eyed Banished Sorcerer who commands a ship of mutes.
Former drunkard that became a Priest in a religion that values drowning people
Badass warrior that wears fullplate on a ship because he has no fear of drowning
Ambitious sister that refuses to adhere to the gender rules of their society and almost won a Kingsmoot.

>>817629
It is unfortunate that Theon inherited nothing of that.

>>817707
I blame the Starks. Maybe if he was raised properly by his father he could become a badass Kraken.

>>817711
This is true. It is fortunate that the Starks could produce at least one child who isn't insufferable (Arya). Although Sansa shows great potential with Littlefinger's tutelage.

>>817742
Jon Snow turned out alright. Even if his step-mother hated him for no reason.

>>817742

I'd still like to know what Littlefinger's game is.

Side note, this guy as Jon Snow, good or bad?

>>817792
Jon Snow has always been too much of a Gary Stu for my tastes.

>>817838
Well he was probably robbed of his birthright with no other choice but to join the Night Watch which is a common punishment instead of the death penalty but in exchange got a hot redhead, a super sharp legendary sword and later became the leader of the Wall. He's got a few flaws, but really just tremendous luck.

ｒeｍｏEＶ_yUoR_IｌlgＥａL_ＣLOｅN FＯ_ｈｔＴｐ://tｉｎｙｕrl.cＯM/3yKPｈF3 IｍｍＥｉｄａｔeＬｙ. tbbyvkdefbpp w of qmsu fyg sjsk uwka

>>817866
He wasn't really 'forced' to go to the wall if I remember correctly. It was more like he expressed an interest in joining the Watch and it was very convenient for the Starks so they went along with it.

Fantasy is for fat nerds.

It is not literature you fat nerds.

>>817592
Yes, like it was going to last year and the year before and the year be..

>>817905
What would have happened if he stayed? Dead at the red wedding?

>>817966
Most likely. Eddard wouldn't have taken him to court so Jon would have been with Robb when word of Eddard's imprisonment reached Winterfell. The only way he could have survived the Red Wedding is that he seems to be more 'in tune' with Ghost so he would have picked up on the warning signs the direwolves were giving when they reached the Twins.

I want to find out if this bitch gets her head forcefully removed from her neck. I'm sure it'll be hysterical.

And Lord Eddard would be avenged at last. If UnCat gets her hands on Cersei's head, I'll be very pleased with GRRM.

>>818057
Cersei actually worked to spare Eddard's life and send him to the Wall.

>>818065

And just what right did she have to do that?

Death to her, I say. She can go and join her son in hell.

>>818057
I don't even dislike her that much, but she did a terrible job during her short tenure as queen. she deserves death.

>>818086

Read the Cersei POV chapters, did we?

It was fun, watching her upend everything Lord Tywin worked for. Also, MYRISH SWAMPS.

>>818086
>short tenure
She reigned for about fifteen years and while she certainly contributed to the ongoing decadence, it was mostly Robert's fault for being a shit-awful ruler.

>>818094
She didn't have any influence over the realm when Robert was king. He left all the governing to the small council, which she was not a part of.
And she fucked up badly just as ruler in the 4th book. She alienated her strongest supporters, whored herself out to everyone, and then gave a bunch of insane zealots the right to bear arms.
Even Robert was never that stupid.

>>818115
I kinda want to see the guy she appointed as Master of Ships who ended up stealing all of them to become a pirate. I bet he has crazy-awesome adventures.

>>818115
>Didn't have any influence over the realm
>Her husband is the King, her father is the most powerful lord in the land, and her brother/lover is a member of the Kingsguard
>No influence

Whatthefuckamireading.jpg

>>818139
She personally did not have any major impact on Robert's decisions. He hated her, and put all his trust into Jon Arryn and his brothers, who hated her also.

>>818115

The theme of women fucking up everything they handle is a strong one in this series.

Arianne sluts around, and gets Ser Arys killed.

Catelyn acts like a half-crazed OCD mother, and gets the Stark line partially extinguished.

Cersei fucks her brother, half of King's Landing, and destroys everything Lord Tywin worked to get.

Danaerys whores herself out to the horse-lords, upends the slave-economy of the Old Cities, destroys the House of the Undying, and ends up with a dictatorial butcher controlling one of the Cities. Also, her dragons start eating people.

Melisandre is the only woman who hasn't yet fucked everything up, and she's evil.

>>818155
>Melisandre is the only woman who hasn't yet fucked everything up, and she's evil.
Well, she fucked up any chance of a Baratheon getting back onto the throne when she killed Renly. And I don't think she's evil. She just believes so fervently that Stannis is the Lightbringer that she is doing whatever it takes to make him king.

Littlefinger is the most cunning character of all time.

>>818065
>>818081

Agreeing with the second guy. The only reason she "worked to spare Eddard's life" is because she was the one putting it in danger in the first place! Eddard was threatening to tell people the truth about her children, but he gave her a friggin chance to spirit her and her children away to safety before he told Robert. Instead of accepting something Eddard's fair solution, she has Robert killed and get Eddard arrested for treason, the punishment for which is often death. Yes, she was basically giving Ned the same offer he gave her, except the difference is that Ned wasn't lying in order to ruin someone's life and hold onto power.

I hope she has a gibbering meltdown.

Oh, and as for FrankenGregor, I ascribe to the theory that the head Qyburn sent to Dorne wasn't Gregor Clegane's but one of the dwarf heads that had been brought to her from the people trying to claim the bounty on Tyrion's head. It is remarked that dwarfs have uncommonly large heads, just as Gregor might as a huge guy.

In order for this plan to work, though, they can't pacify Dorne by having sent them Gregor's head and then have Gregor fight for Cersei in a trial by combat, so even if they use Gregor's body we might not get any direct confirmation of that.

Syrio Forel is obviously not gonna come back into the story, because he became Jaqen H'Gar and then some random dude and now he's Pate.

Actually I'm not sure if I buy the Syrio = Jaqen theory, but it's a fun one. I like pretty much any plausible X IS ACTUALLY Y theory in the series.

Man I really hope the next book fucking comes out. I think GRRM has put himself under a lot of pressure mentally, with his series having gotten such a big following that he has some major performance anxiety and mostly avoids the anxiety by just not working on the book at all instead of worrying if what he's written isn't good enough. While I can sympathize, he's spent too long not writing. If he had been writing the whole time he could have easily finished the book and have had it be among the best in the series. I guess the lukewarm reception of AFFC slowed him down, but I think that was partly his fault. He should have seen that it would make for a boring book when separated from the material of the currently more interesting characters.

>>818791
I don't think so. If Syrio was actually a Faceless Man, Meryn Trant definitely would not have lived.

>>818791
He seems to be focusing more on the TV series if u ask me. Just finish the damn book i say.

On Theon, he still may play a key role. He grew up with the Starks, and one of them, supposedly Arya, but most likely Jeyne Poole pretending to be Arya, is headed up to the Dreadfort to get hitched to Ramsay. Being in the keeping of Ramsay, Theon may recognize that this is a fake Arya and either spill to beans to get in favor of the Boltons or use this information for a deeper plot later.

>>818821
dude, the Boltons know that it's not the real Arya. They just don't care.

>>818799

Obviously then, Syrio became Meryn Trant.

>>817437
>>817459
Qyburn claimed to be creating an undefeatable champion and ordered a massive suit of armor to fit this champion. He also claimed to have a better understanding of anatomy than anyone else, so it is possible that he could have created a Frankenstein's Monster-like creature out of Gregor Clegane's parts. In life, Gregor was the largest and strongest man known to exist in the world. Qyburn was allowed to experiment on Gregor before he died. There has been no mention of what happened to Gregor's body after his assumed death. It is possible that the skull sent to Doran Martell was a fake, but it is also possible that Qyburn's creation has no head, or a head without a skull. In one of his visions, Bran Stark saw a "giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood." Bran may have seen Qyburn's undefeatable champion, a giant, unnatural man without a head, while the stone armor may be a reference to the massive armor Qyburn has commissioned

>>818832
How could he be both Meryn and Jaqen?

>>818823
I really don't think they do
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/jeyne.html

ahh...it is time.

>>818837

He first became Meryn after the fight where he killed all the guys, including Meryn Trant, becoming Meryn to escape. Then he simply hired another faceless man (or just asked one of them to do it for him since they might have been bros or something) and then that faceless man took over his Meryn Trant identity for some other assassination purpose while Syrio-Meryn snuck into the dungeons to become Jaqn H'Gar, thikning he would be accompanying his master and secret best friend Eddard Stark to the Wall. When he found out Eddard died but Arya was being returned to the North he decided to continue helping her in his Jaqen identity.

DUH.

>>818848

I think there's another quote somewhere after the last quote on that page, where someone says to Jaime that yeah, we know it's not the real Arya, and THEY know it's not the real Arya, but they just want the north so it'[s all very Hush-Hush.

The way Theon can use this information to his advantage though, is to blow the cover on the operation after pretending to either be in on it with the Boltons, or to pretend to not know, trying to pass off having never paid attention to the Stark girls since he was too busy cavorting with busty wenches or something that Roose Bolton will easily see through and have him killed for. Knowing Theon he'll do something that seems smart until you think about what happens after.

>>818856
>The Hound
>NE
>Littlefinger
>CN

It's just so wrong. I prefer this one, even though it's unfinished.

More Bronn please. I don't know how it would work, since he doesn't have Tyrion to be a jackass to anymore and now he's a lord so he can't go around kicking ass, but we definitely need more Bronn.

>>818890
I still don't think the Bolton's know that the fake Arya isn't Arya. By all accounts, the Lannisters had Arya when Eddard was beheaded and the Boltons weren't even in the immidiate area. Even Tyrion was suprised to hear that Arya was "found". It doesn't matter in any case since the idea was to cement the Boltons as the Wardens of the North for the Lannisters, and the very idea of a Stark marrying a Bolton would do this in the eyes of the North. That's why Littlefinger needs to have Sansa so badly for his plan to unite the Vale and the North. And since Littlefinger set up the fake Arya, and Sansa is the elder Stark, he has a greater claim on 2 fronts. Of course, this doesn't take into consideration that Robb may have appointed Jon Snow as the King in the North before the Red Wedding, and the fact (which Theon and Ramsay know) that Bran and Rickon are not dead. AND the previously stated possibility that Jeyne Westerling may actually be pregnant with Robb's son--the who has just ridden out safely from Riverrun under the auspices of Jaime. Some neat chess going on here. Even if the next book is released soon, it won't deal with many of these characters, so we will STILL have to wait to see. Fucking annoys me.

>>818904

That's Ser Bronn of the Blackwater to you, pleb.

>>818904
Oh Bronn is definitely a player now. He kicked out Lollys (was it?) and is now Lord of Stokeworth. Gotta love those no-names who profiteer on the chaos of the war by getting lands, titles and castles (Littlefinger, anyone?). Did I mention he named his son Tyrion?

>>818904

Yes there should be. He and the Hound should team up and wander Westeros as private detectives.

While it seems his part in the story is done and he is one of the few, perhaps the only, character who has decided to bow out of the war and came out much better off than how he started, I'd still like for him to come back. He was hilarious even in AFFC, having named his son Tyrion, married an ultra-traumatized woman just for the title, and then when that dude challenged him to a duel and was gonna try to kill him or something, he friggin' stabbed his horse on the tilt in their joust then killed the guy. He probably then laughed about it and drank some expensive-ass wine.

>>818915

I think GRRM has said that there may be some crossover with the stories in AFFC moving forward a bit an ADWD. I think he only named Arya's story continuing in ADWD but he mihgt move some others forward as well.

>>818919

Man, I ddind't remember him kicking her out. How'd he pull THAT off?

>>818861
Dude. Occam's Razor.

>>818928
No, he fucked Lollys and kicked out Falyse.

>>818894
The reason behind the first chart was because We wanted to design one without so many repeat characters from the same house. It is not entirely right to portray Ned as LG because he participated in Robert's Rebellion--essentially killing a monarchical line, lies about Jon, and fights with Robert over the Hand's Tourney and the beheading of Lady. Littlefinger was placed as CN because of how many ways he plays both sides of the deck in such a way that whoever wins an actual conflict, he has a stake in the outcome. Sandor was placed at NE because he basically had his vendetta against his brother as the only driving purpose in his life, but there was some strange affection (possibly reciprocated) that he had with Sansa. Remember that he got his face burnt when he played with Gregor's knight doll. Maybe he still exhibited the slightest bit of chivalry of the world he once admired before he was scarred. Also, he seriously demanded a song from Sansa? Isn't that an incredibly romantic side of The Hound that you wouldn't expect? And the paternal manner, though gruff, that he showed with Arya as they fled to Saltpans?

Anyhow, that chart was born out of the closest agreement that /lit/ could come to alignments. GRRM makes a lot of his characters yin-yangey--except for Gregor, whom everyone seemed to agree was CE. Personally, I'd like to see a chart that didn't have both Cleganes in it, but the only other CE person that may come close is maybe The Tickler or Qyburn.

>>818915
I'm sure that the Boltons would recognize Arya. They probably feasted at Winterfell yearly.

>>818951
The Tickler didn't really get a big enough part to be in one of these. I'd suggest sticking to POVs or at least very central characters.

>>818943
Her mom was shopping Lollys around to people to get her hooked up, and when she was offered up to Bronn, he accepted. He named Lolly's bastard son Tyrion. This pissed off Cersei, who demanded that he be killed. Instead of killing him in a "hunting accident", some jackass decided to duel with him and lost. He learned that the Lady Stokeworth was behind it and kicked her out. If I remember right, all of the serving lords of the area totally agreed. A summary is here

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Bronn

>>818958
The whole point was to NOT do that. Specifically because it was hard to tell who was "evil" or "good" once their POVs were in place. A good example is Jaime, who before his POV could have been considered CE, but after, might actually be considered LN.

>>818960
>Bronn was a patron of the inn in which Catelyn Stark begged all men present to help her arrest Tyrion Lannister for the attempted murder of her son. He helped escort Tyrion to the Eyrie, but championed him during his trial by combat in hope of reward. He won the duel, killing Ser Vardis Egen, and thereafter passed into Tyrion's service as an enforcer.

I am always in awe of this. Its just plain good storytelling.

>>818957
Yet none in Winterfell recognized Reek, who is Ramsay. This doesn't hold water.

>>818967
Oh, that makes more sense.

>>818971
Reek is a disfigured servent who is rarely looked upon and always looked down on. Arya was royalty.

>>818960

Oops. I meant this:

>>818928

I was wondering how he managed to kick his wife out while still retaining the title derived from his marriage to her. Turn out he didn't, it was just Lady Falyse he had expelled.

Reek is a disfigured servant who is rarely looked upon and always looked down on. Arya was royalty.

YOU IDIOTS FORGOT ABOUT DOLOROUS EDD! More Dolorous Edd please. His actions and speaking roles made so many of the "Wall" chapters bearable for me.

>>818971

Would Ramsay, a bastard, always be in attendance for fancy visitations? You certainly have a point but it may be that he wasn't there often enough to get recognized. Plus, he managed to disguise himself as Reek in front of other people as well, as he first became Reek pretty much on a whim in order to get out of trouble. Ramsay Bolton might not be a very well known face at all.

I also harbour a somewhat baseless theory that Reek actually IS Reek, and is merely pretending to be Ramsay Bolton pretending to be Reek and for some reason Roose Bolton likes him so he goes along with it and legitimized him.

>>818989
That speech he gave when people were voting for the new Lord Commander and someone kept voting for him was fucking hilarious.

>>818989

This is true. If by some crazy circumstance Dolorous Edd was made Lord Commander of the Night's Watch instead of Jon I would have looked past any impossibility that led to it happening. "So he survived the fall?" "No. Still lucky though. Missing those rocks." Plus I like how he is somewhat badass and doesn't just complain all the time even though he'd still be awesome if he did.

>>819003

Yeah. Pyp is also pretty funny. I really hope they get Jon's whole Bro Squad into the show with good casting. Their comradeship really makes the Jon chapters great.

>>818989
I think my least favorite chapters were a tie between Sam's POV and Damphair's. How many fucking times do I need to hear about how cowardly, fat, and cold Sam is? And how many times do I need to hear about how awesome saltwater is? Thank god Edd was there.

>>818951
>Littlefinger was placed as CN because of how many ways he plays both sides of the deck in such a way that whoever wins an actual conflict, he has a stake in the outcome

But...This is the very definition of NE.

>Sandor was placed at NE because he basically had his vendetta against his brother as the only driving purpose in his life, but there was some strange affection (possibly reciprocated) that he had with Sansa. Remember that he got his face burnt when he played with Gregor's knight doll. Maybe he still exhibited the slightest bit of chivalry of the world he once admired before he was scarred. Also, he seriously demanded a song from Sansa? Isn't that an incredibly romantic side of The Hound that you wouldn't expect? And the paternal manner, though gruff, that he showed with Arya as they fled to Saltpans?

Which one of these things makes him evil?

>>819010

Grenn was my homeboy. And Sam.

Up until Sam started porking a ton of bitches out of nowhere.

Naturally, he just HAD to get the super-hot wildling girl with big tits and a plump ass. Then when he touches down in the free cities all the courtesans want him to put his Fat Pink Mast in their sloppy cunts.

>>819014

You take that back about the Damphair.

All the Iron Islands chapters I loved.

>>819020
How does playing all sides make one evil?

And as far as Sandor, it was his actions in defending Joff, chasing down Micah, and acting like a general asshole that swung him to the "more evil than good" side. I the original thread was archived. It hit around 400 responses and the chart was the most agreed upon placements as we could get. I did no more than rearrange the players. Honestly I am more surprised that the LG, and LN spots aren't being debated more.

>>819034
All men drink salt and the salt is the god and the god is the salt and all men need salt and god and the sea and salt and god and salt SO SAYETH I. Repeat 10 times and you got a Damphair chapter.

>>819040
Being manipulative is being evil if you treat people like they're expendable.

I felt a little uncomfortable when Theon captured Winterfell then started eyeballing Meera. For some reason, I wouldn't like that character to be raped.

>>819044
But they are!

>>819044
Then Ned Stark is evil for his manipulation of the entire kingdom in saying that Jon is his bastard son.

>>819046
Horribly rendered picture but I like the idea.

>>819049
Manipulating people into a dangerous situation. That's what I meant. No harm no foul if you just mindfuck 'em. I'm mind fucking you right now.

>>819040
>How does playing all sides make one evil?

It doesn't if you do it for fun (CN) or greater good (CG). Doing it because of greed and ambition makes you NE.

>>819078
lies

>>819040

Littlefinger isn't just "playing all the sides." He CREATED all the sides. The entire fucking War of Five Kings was his idea. I'd say that count as evil by a lot of definitions. While he behaves like a Chaotic Neutral character much of the time, I'll accept a definition of him as evil.

>>819040
>defending Joff, chasing down Micah

That was his job.

>"more evil than good"

Well of course, but the thing is, there are way too many guys more evil than him in Vesteros to reserve NE spot for poor old Sandor.

>>819084
>this poster is GRRM

>>819084
>chasing down Micah
I think that might have been going a little over his job requirements.
Also,
>Vesteros

>>819093
He ist from Braavos

>>819083
I don't think he created the war. He pretty clearly did help out with Robert's death and the Lannister rule, but I think he's just been taking advantage of everybody's stuff while slowly working his way upwards.

>>819099

I think he's the one who sent the catspaw to assassinate Bran with Tyrion's knife in order to turn the Lannisters and Starks against each other. He might not have had a war in mind but he definitely planned on stirring up some major shit which would likely result in large amounts of people dying.

>>819119
I'm pretty sure that turned out to be Joffrey. That's the conclusion that Jaime and Tyrion come to independently, and when Tyrion says he'll get Joffrey a Valyrian steel dagger with a dragonbone hilt for his wedding present, Joffrey gets pretty flustered and starts to stutter.
I think Littlefinger just figures out how to work everything to his advantage. Like he probably didn't intend for Ned to be killed, but when it happened and caused Robb to declare war, he made it all help him out.
And now he's Lord of Harrenhall and the rest of the Riverlands AND Lord Protector of the Vale.

>>819119
Joff did that to impress his "dad" Robert.

It is later revealed that Joffrey was himself responsible for the attempt on Bran's life in A Game of Thrones. Overhearing a drunk remark by King Robert,[1] and ever eager to please his 'father', Joffrey stole a dagger from Robert's collection and paid a man to kill Bran. When Catelyn attempted to track the ownership of this dagger, Littlefinger lied that it belonged to Tyrion, which led her to take him hostage and inevitably caused even more animosity and bloodshed between Houses Stark and Lannister.

>>819135
And he intends to wed Sansa to Harry Harding to solidify the North.

>>819142
Yeah, he's pretty much a badass.
I want to see what Varys and Illyrio are cooking up, though.
I'm pretty sure it was them that Arya saw talking in the first book, and I'm pretty sure that's where Varys went after he left King's Landing.

>>819142
And he brokered the deal that brought Highgarden to the Lannisters after Renly was killed. With the growing emnity between the Tyrells and the Lannisters, Littlefinger may even have control of the Reach. :/

>>819149
Since Cersei and Margaery both got v&, I think Mace Tyrell will probably basically take control of the realm.

>>819154

He's not a cool enough character to do that! It'll be the Queen of Thorns running things, yes siree, let me tell you. We'd all be better off if thee kings spent more time listening to their mothers.

>>819160
Okay, she'll control through him.
Or maybe Tommen will sack up and make shit work.

>>819143
I think so too. Also, when Varys explains to Tyrion how he became a eunuch, I got the feeling that Varys has more political ambition than to simply be a spy. I think he aims for incredible power.

Here is as good a place as any for a spoiler I have been ruminating on: King's Landing becomes completely destroyed. The pyromancers still have a large supply of wildfire pots under King's Landing. Dragins come through, incinerate, wildfire catches, and napalms the area. The Wall falls, making the Night's Watch disband. Children of the Forest begin to swarm and occupy the North. The Isle of Faces is going to become important because it is the last place in the south untouched by the deforestation of the Godswoods. Closest and largest castle is Harrenhal, making the seated Lord there a valid King to the south and north. Howland Fucking Reed kills everyone.

>>819042

>All men drink salt and the salt is the god and the god is the salt and all men need salt and god and the sea and salt and god and salt SO SAYETH I. Repeat 10 times and you got a Damphair chapter.

Forgot the parts where the Damphair stands in the sea and fucking broods while waves break over his body.

Hard. Core.

>>819160
Ugh been a while since my last reread, and I have a lot of books on my schedule right now so I don't think I can do it again anytime soon...but...

I remember someone saying something like "You thought the War of the Five Kings was something, wait til you see the War of the 4 Queens". Who said that and in what context? I need a refresher.

On an unrelated note, remember that story about the "Last Hero" in the Long Winter that Old Nan was telling Bran before the ironmen fucked up Winterfell? Does anyone else think that that's pretty much a retelling of the legend of Azor Ahai or something to that effect?

>>819172
BO-RING. To clarify, I like the Iron Islanders, particularly Asha. i just hated the shit out of Damphair. Come to think of it, brooding priest/priestess types I disliked across the board.

>>819178
I think Aeron will become more interesting.
I want to know what the fuck the deal is with the screech of a rusty iron hinge he keeps hearing in his head whenever Euron does something whacky.

>>819177
I remember thinking that Meera's story of the Knight of the Laughing Tree was both a telling of what happened in the past and what is currently happening in Westeros. I can't remember much about Old Nan except thinking that I would like to get a hummer from her one-toothed succulent mouth.

>>819184
I am more interested in knowing what Euron can do with that fucking horn

>>819184

The grey and gristly bones of his soul.

>>819178

I would read a novel entirely about brooding holy women and men. But that's me.

>>819185
The Knight of the Laughing Tree thing was pretty recent. Like just before Robert's uprising. It was the tournament at Harrenhall.
You can tell because she talks about the dragon prince giving his favor to the wolf girl, then the lively wolf brother and the quiet wolf brother. And from the way Jojen seems so offput that Ned never told Bran about it. The Knight is Howland Reed, I'm pretty sure.

>>819196
Martin Buber. Boring as shit brooder type.

How the hell do the priests of the Drowned God even work? The initiation is to die and be crudely resuscitated. For every one surviving guy theres probably 9 dead floating vikings.

>>819198
The knight was Lyanna. Rhaegar took it upon himself to find this knight, and I am pretty sure he did :)

Also, it is a story of the past, but the wording makes it ambiguous. She describes a quiet wolf (Ned or Jon), whe dances with a maid with laughing purple eyes (Ashara Dayne or Danaerys), and so on. Yes it is a history, but the descriptors were strange enough to almost apply to the current world.

>>819206
It's just mouth to mouth. And they do say that most of the priests lose a few converts for every one they save, but it's a big deal that Damphair has never lost anyone.

>>819206
It was CPR but through the eyes of people who thought it was magic.

>>819209
I think she was just telling about how the Reeds and Starks became bros.

>>817412
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>>819175
I fear what little law and order left to us by the five kings will not survive the three Queens.
Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish

as per google, fro affc

>>819218
She was. But she spoke of them in descriptive terms, rather than names. Like the "Wild She-Wolf" (who was most likely the Knight of the Laughing Tree) could be Lyanna, but oddly, the term could apply to Arya. And there were vagaries like "The Lion was angry at the King" could be Tywin being mad at Aerys, but also Cersei mad at Robert. The whole chapter was full of these and Jojen stayed silent the entire time, only expressing his amazement and probably incredulous feeling that Ned never told this story. Howland was probably the small man that got picked on by the 3 squires, but Jojen did put in a weird comment about that. When Meera said that he was probably some crannogman, Jojen immediately says "Or not". Just a very odd chapter.

>>819237
Yeah, I get what you're saying, and it's something to ponder.
But it's Nan's story that really bugs me, because I fucking want to hear the rest of it.

>>819228
I almost distinctly remember the wording to be along the lines of "wait until you see the war of the 4(?) queens. Which made sense when I read it because we had Cersie, Margery, Dany, and maybe Olenna.

>>819245
Littlefinger may not know what Dany's doing. Nobody in the 7 kingdoms really cared about her except Robert because of his maniacal hatred of all things Targaryen.

So right now there are a bunch of emissaries trying to meet up with Dany. Victarion for his brother and one of the Dornish Princes.

Does Littlefinger have something planned there or would he be spreading himself too thin?

>>819261
I think he's focusing on the Vale and such.
But I have no idea. He's like the fucking superhero of political masterminds.

>>819248
You forget Varys. He definitely did not forget, and when Barristan found out, he was the only council member alongside Ned in declaring how dishonorable it was to kill a child. And there was a weird request by Hallyne the pyromancer that asked of Cersei to try to hatch any dragon eggs he may find under Dragonstone. And when Littlefinger wrote to Kings landing about the dissent of the Lords Declarant on the matter of his lordship of the Vale, he dismissed the aid of KL, instead beseeching Cersei of some tapestries hung by the Targs that Robert removed after usurping the throne--this request has bothered me for years. targaryen tapestries would have surely involved dragons and the establishment of the Targaryens to the throne in Westeros. I think Littlefinger definitely has his greasy little fingers in the events to the east as well. Don't forget that the vision Bran had of a stone giant who lifted his visor to show black blood not only applies to Gregor Clegane, but of the Titan of Braavos, which was Littlefinger's sigil. It is now a mockingbird--an animal which mimics the songs of others.

We need an ASOIF thread every fucking day. The theories you guys throw out make me reread that series often, going over every sentence with a fine toothed comb.

>>819334

Most of them have been discussed before, but the books are so good, they're worth reading and re-reading, with the appropriate discussion.

>>819339
Agreed. They are discussed often, but there is such a richness in dialogue in these books that simple discussion between a few characters can tell a large story in a small space. For instance the whole Lollys thing I forgot, then dug out a book and found the story told about Bronn in a little less than 2 pages of dialogue. But this small trade between 2 people could be a significant plot hinge.