/lit/ - Literature

Todays Prompt

Whats your favorite SFF battle sequence/fight scene? And as a writer, how do you handle them in your own work?

One thing, as a narcissist, that bothers me. Is the lack of disturbance towards my haters in /sffg/. Seriously, it's like nobody considers them. Especially given how little of a choice they had in being such insufferable worms and their parent's unwillingness to go on with the pregnancy. It's terrible horror shit. They're demeaned, inhuman, fucked up creatures. They break my ego in microfracutres. It's just, awful through and through with no positive elements.

But I don't like how they aren't explored, demented and subhuman trash I have no choice but to be forced to interact with is a concept I don't that's ever been handeled well or properly. Maybe it's me, it's a deep seated fear of not being understood, that men's blissful ignorance of my qualities, or just their mindless "memeing" in the present, override my own autonomy and emotions towards myself, making me feel like I don't see in myself the perfect human being that I am anymore.

I don't know what I'm saying. I just wish you maggots would stop constantly posting "Le epic pregnancy copypasta!", and not facing the grimey slimey disturbing bullshit you are. Or how I'm forced to deign myself by those believing its acceptable to have my stupid ideas criticised, and for some people, and for many people, this appears to be the case. This was even more prevalent in the past because of those fucking dinosaurs lmao.

>>8148905
Severian versus Alzabo
Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser against the rat army
The initial hours of the betrayal at Calth
Umm yeah I tend to forget them mostly.

>>8148905
>Whats your favorite SFF battle sequence/fight scene?

Don't know if it's definitively my favorite but the one that comes immediately to mind is the Battle of Dumai's Wells in the Wheel of Time. The gratuitous violence is just so satisfying after everything that has happened.

>>8148912
Thank you anon for saving it for me

I'm writing a micro story for >>8148206. Is lizardmen too much for a science fiction story initially set on earth? I'm talking about the conspiracy theorist kind. Or will my story get rejected because it's basically hate speech against jews?

>>8148925
>Or will my story get rejected because it's basically hate speech against jews?

>>8148905

When the ship is overrun by "miniatures" in The Mote In God's Eye. It kicks what is a pretty dull and procedural story up to that point, into fifth gear. It's great.

>>8148925
A lizard is running for president of America, mate it ain't science fiction at all.

>>8148948
Clinton and Trump are both lizards

>>8148905
I find the battle scenes in the Prince of Nothing series to be particularly good.

Ones that stand out are the Battle of Menggeda in the Warrior-Prophet and Conphas' attack on Joktha in The Thousandfold Thought.

>>8148954
Trump is an amphibian you fucking racist piece of shit

>>8148948
Yeah, Trump is running for president

Trump is a broke sociopath man bitch who can't even stand people mocking his hands.

>>8148965
Yep, we're doing great lads

>>8148905
>Liane sprang forward, planning to clasp her while her attention was distracted. The rapier sprang up by itself, darted forward, pierced the agile body.
>Mazirian uttered a spell of his own, and all the valley was lit streaming darts of fire, lashing in from all directions to split Thrang's blundering body in a thousand places. This was the excellent Prismatic Spray -- many-coloured stabbing lines. Thrang was dead almost at once, purple blood flowing from countless holes where the radiant rain had pieced him.

etc

Concise and simple, I fucking hate the trend of action packed anime scenes.

>>8148968
those hands are too big. make them the size of his cock.

>>8148965
How does a presidential candidate even trigger someone this hard? You an undocumented spic?

>>8148974
You want them even bigger?

>>8148978
How does mocking your hands trigger Trump? Is it because trump is a numalian cucc?

>>8148985
He has them in his pocket for a reason. He's ashamed

>>8148992
Of his humungous dick that threatens to rip open his pants. Yes.

>>8148968
>>8148958
Remember to report pol posts.
The mods ARE banning them.

>>8148995
please, his dick is about the size of a baby mouse. small hands small feet small dick

>/sffg/ - Donald Trump's penis size general

>>8149003
should be a short general

>>8149008
Is that you preganonette? Is the penis envy so intense?

Just ignore them, they want attention and that is why they are doing it. Stop responding to the, even if they scream and shout.

>>8149014
I made one joke and it's a shitpost spree, we will never be safe

>>8148889
What a short and sweet song this is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXMYrjMc6qs

who /bakker/ here?

Is bakker better than Wolfe?

>>8149061
Bakker and Wolfe are doing two different things

Talking about Dinosaurs and a guy named Bakker

has anyone read Raptor Red lmfao

>>8149061
That's comparing apples to oranges. Both are good, but for different reasons

>>8149061

Wolfe is a way more sophisticated writer overall, but TSA has a greater scope/vision than BotNS in terms of metaphysics.

>>8149074
>>8149086

Also don't get fooled by these two, they are actually very similar writers in that they have the same personality type. I'd expect anyone who liked one to like the other, unless you're autistic and have trouble reading anything new.

>>8148905
One 'fight' scene I enjoyed was the end fight against Orannis in Abhorsen, mainly due to Mogget being credit to team, stepping up, and going, "Nah, bitch".

Obligatory mention for Kaladin vs. Szeth too. Kaladin's arrival, line, the subsequent fight in the Everstorm, and Kaladin completely outclassing him.

Some of the ending skirmishes against the Inhibitors in Absolution Gap were pretty radical, what with all the hyper-advanced technologies employed.

And, of course, Kelsier vs. Inquisitors. I remember God King vs. Everybody Bad at the end of Warbreaker was pretty fucking hype too.

>>8149144
Metaphysics in New Sun are superb, the whole novel is soaked in it.

>>8149164

Most of it is pretty stupid, actually. Catholicism is completely incoherent.

>>8149166
>Catholicism is completely incoherent
Could you expand on this?

>>8149176

It's crap for braindead pseudo-intellectuals. Just look at /lit/ on any given day.

>>8149178
Erm, ok, I was sorta expecting you to go a little more in-depth than that.

>>8149166
Is this coming from someone who compares Bakker to Wolfe and doesn't find one to be a juvenile attempt at teh true nature of religion?

>>8149144
>Also don't get fooled by these two, they are actually very similar writers in that they have the same personality type.

They really dont. Bakker is much more forward in his writing and the way he handles his characters and scenarios is very diffetent than Wolfe, more colorful and protracted, wheras Wolfe is almost always keeping things low profile and meditative.

>>8149185
>thinks Bakker hates religion when the big bads in his series are hedonistic God denying atheists

>>8149182

Catholicism is pure contradiction. It's for people who don't really care about truth... or goodness at all really.

>>8149185

TSA is just a straightforward gnostic/hermeticist setting, except with eliminative materialism shoved alongside as a competing philosophy.

>>8149193

You think that's what I'm comparing them on? Their series appeal to the same type of reader (at least they did to me)... since the authors are the same type of people with the same interests.

>>8149200
You said personality type, if thats not what you meant then you should have been more direct and said "subject matter", but even that there is debateable.

What you're saying is equivalent to me saying John Hawkes has the same personality type as Bruno Schulze just because I happened to he drawn to them both...its not really happening.

>>8149214

If you like moralistic/erudite/religious fantasy series, you'll like both of these series. Also the authors are both moralists. What is so hard about this to grasp?

>>8149240
The fact that people who like one don't have a tendency to like the other.

>>8149253

Based on what, bitch?

>>8149255
Based on the fact that people who like one quite often dislike the other a lot.

>>8149262

Based on what, bitch?

>last book of "The Drenai Saga"
>David Gemmel died in 2006

fuck, what do I do guys..

>>8149240
Why are you getting pissy when you arent even bothering to be clear on the terms you're arguing in the first place? You change it up with every post. Do you know the basics of communication?

And again, no they do not have the same personality. Hell many GW fans either dislike or dont even bother with Bakker. You're essentially arguing your own taste as the authors characteristics.

>>8149271

>And again, no they do not have the same personality

You're right, they don't. They have the same personality TYPE, which is a completely different thing. You think every RWA, for example, is alike?

>Hell many GW fans either dislike or dont even bother with Bakker

Yes, people dislike a similar author for... barely any reasons at all. I didn't even like BotNS the first time I read it, and I dropped TSA for over 2 years. I don't care about your circumstantial evidence bitch, I care about theory.

>You're essentially arguing your own taste as the authors characteristics.

No, I'm arguing the authors characteristics.

>>8149264
People who like Wolfe I know either don't bother with Bakker or dislike him.
People who like Bakker don't like Wolfe because he doesn't explain stuff.
This is based on me talking with people and goodreads threads.

>>8149292

I don't care who you've talked to you retard. I've witnessed people who like and dislike both series as well. Doesn't change how similar they are at all!

>>8149279
Your "type" is so poorly defined I'm having trouble taking it seriously, but I guess everyone needs their pet theories.

>No, I'm arguing the authors characteristics.
No you're not. You have an idea of what they write about and consider that the final word on what "type" they are, which is naive at best.

This was great, any other fantasy based on Byzantine court?

Also Styliane Daleina did nothing wrong

>>8149301
It does change the "persona who likes one should like the other" thesis.

>>8149311
There are a few actual Byzantine novels out there, which you might find if you try a lot.
And on the Byzantine note, New Sun was supposed to riff off that aesthetic, but no one seems to get the idea.

>>8149328
Strangely enough, Bakker hits on the Byzantine aesthetic too in many places.

>>8149348
Byzantine themes never riff on Codex Iustinianus to satisfy my legal autism, but Wolfe actually does a great job at the whole law system according to the time/place feel.

https://mobile.twitter.com/dahgmahn

>>8149412
Non-mobile link: https://twitter.com/dahgmahn

Has anyone heard of this guy before?

>>8148206
This looks great, will definitely be submitting something.

Though I've never written something as short as 750 words. Will have to get my mental cogs ticking.

>trump posts got deleted
>my posts mocking trump didn't

>>8147184
Thanks buddy, I quite enjoyed this one.

>>8148889
When it comes to writing, is it a good idea to write something taking place in a rather generic fantasy setting in the hope that you can then further develop ideas, or should one strive for more authentic and unique world building from the very beginning?

>>8149556
False dichotomy, those aren't your only two options, and you should write according to the demands of your story, characters, and themes.

>>8149556
Just write a setting that actually interests you

and this >>8149594

Can someone who works at overlook leak The Great Ordeal please??

>>8149651
Just buy it when it releases senpai

>>8149651
Only 1 month and 1 day to go brother!

>>8148206
I submitted a story to this.

Would anyone on /lit/ want to read?

It's more magical realism than fantasy or sci-fi though

>>8149864
>magical realism
So, sci-fantasy?

What's the fantasy story you've always wanted to write anon? Be honest now, we're anonymous after all.

I've always had this idea for a story about heroic chariot racers engaged in a mythical struggle against one another that ends with my narrator character taking up the chariot reins for Apollo and the ideal of Life and racing for the life of his King Theseus against his rival racing for Hades and the ideal of Death in a shattered, haunted Hippodrome in the Underworld filled with the spirits of the dead.

>>8150105
I'm already writing it, but its sci-fi.

>>8150132
Science fiction isn't worth anything unless it's based upon spiritual Tradition and mythical archetypes.

>>8150133
Lotta effort for a dubious claim, but maybe one day you can prove it.

>>8150133
>based upon spiritual Tradition and mythical archetypes
Disgusting.

>>8150133
Are you one of those guys who think the Heroes Journey is some mystical formula?

>>8150141
Well lets look at which stories last thousands of years and are subject to intense study and which are disregarded in a few decades.

>>8150145
Explain your points or don't say anything at all.

>>8150148
Absolutely.

>>8150152
Didnt know Dune was written thousands of years ago, anything else professor?

>>8150133
No fiction is worth anything if it dosent touch upon the truth of life, thats all youre really saying. Or attempting to say.

Your mythical structures and models dont mean jack shit if you yourself dont grasp and live out those truths in your daily life one way or another, and that very much will show in your writing.

>>8150159
What truths of life are you referring to anon?

>>8150168
I thought you would know Mr Myth Man

>>8150098
Magical realism and science fantasy are different things, anon.

>>8150152
>Well lets look at which stories last thousands of years
How are you planning on doing that?

>>8150170
I do know, I was just trying to get a clear picture of what your misconceptions were so I could dismantle them for you.

>>8150188
Since you seem so confused on what I just said, I dont think you do.

>>8150105
That sounds like it should be an anime rather than a book. Fucking cool idea though.

I've had this weird fantasy-western idea for ages that explores industrialization and expansionism, but I'm nowhere near good enough to do it justice yet.

>>8150159
This is true. Slapping Greek names and Hero's Journey over your work will not make it good. The core of any good story or work of art is character, humanity expressing itself.

You really don't need mythical structures to do that, although they can help point to higher virtues (which again, are born from the human spirit, the form is not its content). In the end your work is only as good as your knowledge of yourself and life.

This namedropping of "spiritual tradition" is so vague I'm not even sure if I want to touch it.

>>8150214
I've always found chariot races and the concept of the Hippodrome to be so much more interesting and exciting than gladiator battles and Colosseums. I've never understood why Hippodrome based stories haven't been more popular. Chariot races of the ancient world absolutely fascinate me.

>>8150223
I'm not advocating for mere name dropping, but for deep seated and intuitive understanding of these archetypes.

>>8150223
>Slapping Greek names and Hero's Journey over your work will not make it good. The core of any good story or work of art is character, humanity expressing itself.
This is very true. A lot of the time people mistake the events of the hero's journey for literal descriptions of events, which leads to the metaphorical "road of trials" as a series of challenges to the hero's psyche, becoming the hero fighting a series of robot scorpions or something with no real narrative purpose.

>>8150233
>I'm not advocating for mere name dropping, but for deep seated and intuitive understanding of these archetypes.
You realize that the Hero's Journey was a tool for analyzing myths and not writing them right? Archetypes arise as a result of character, not the other way around.
If you start writing characters as plain archetypes you're not adding anything to the storytelling tradition, you're just imitating it.
There are plenty of better guides to writing than the Hero's Journey.

>>8150233
>but for deep seated and intuitive understanding
pick one. Especially concerning the Greeks. You'll have a real time of it since the culture that gave birth to these types is long gone and the forms themselves have been mixed to hell and back. At best you're working with an echo.

Its gets to a point that you might as well go full Tolkien and create your own mythology if its really that necessary.

Either way, I think we've settled that it's not necessary to make conscious use of these things. If anything it can easily become a crutch.

>>8150245
There are also a great deal of archetypes outside of the archetypal hero of the heroes journey anon.

>>8150252
Or you could just learn Koine Greek and study the writings and philosophy of the Greeks in depth.

test

>>8150254
Sure, but even then, if you're just copying archetypes you're not adding to the culture, you're just jerking off dead people. Which is fine, but don't act like it's the only way to write.

>>8150268
Why don't believe that writers of this ers could contribute creatively to this framework of archetypal thought?

>>8148954
>>8148960
>>8148965
>>8148974
>>8148987
>>8148992
>>8148997
>>8149001
>>8149008
>the shitposter that started the shitstorm in the first place doesn't have his posts deleted
>posts defending trump get deleted
>copypasta gets deleted

>>8150271
They already do, but if you're too busy wanking off the Greeks you'll never notice it. Get out of the context of "muh ancients' and just look at what people value today and uphold as the ideals. Archetypes can be negative and positive.

>>8150271
I'm not saying you can't use archetypes, but when they're the sole basis of your inspiration, you run the risk of being formulaic and ultimately irrelevant

>>8150286
What people value today is worthless and ignorant anon. Stop being such a modern populist, you know that it's stupid

>>8150287
Archetypes inherently are meant to begin vague and have the personality and details filled in by the style of the writer. This is literally the case with all archetypal characters. Have you never noticed this?

>>8150290
Did you read what I said? I said people are already creating their own archetypes based on what they value, what you or I actually think of those things is ultimately irrelevant since it still fulfills that premise of

> contribute creatively to this framework of archetypal thought?

If you really have something specific in mind then you will need to actually be specific. Don't flip out when I'm only working within the parameters you set up.

>>8150290
I genuinely can't tell if this is bait

>>8150294
>Archetypes inherently are meant to begin vague and have the personality and details filled in by the style of the writer.
But the truly good archetypal characters transcend their archetypes to become their own characters, to the point where referring to them as a just an archetype becomes reductive.
I'm not arguing against mythical influences in general, I'm arguing against the slavish dedication to tradition and utter disregard for modern culture that you promoted in >>8150133.

>>8150294
People will make archetypes out of anything, tvtropes is living proof of this.

So this whole thing is falling down to whether you want to use premade toys or not.

>>8150306
What exactly does modern culture bring to this table but schizophrenic trash that doesn't know what it is or what it wants ti be?

>>8150307
That doesn't make these archetypes of any legitimate merit.

>>8150314
see
>>8150297
But since you bring in this new factor of "merit" in play lets look at this post again >>8150223

All in all we come to a sound demonstration that your assertion is a half-truth at best, painfully ignorant at worst.

>>8148905
The railgun boarding sequence in Golden Son. Pitch-perfect pacing. Also in the Baroque Cycle when Yevgeny fights Peter the Great, or when the Quakers are fighting the bear-baiters, or when Jack is fighting his sons, or when Bob keeps trying to have duels of honor with Anglesy and losing until an Irishman shows up and beats Anglesy to death with a stick..

Baroque Cycle had a lot of good fight scenes.

>>8150316
What are you suggesting as a replacement of classical myth structure with anon?

>>8150325
Where did I even begin to suggest a replacement?

I only said they're not even necessary to consciously employ, for reasons previously stated.

>it's a Nynaeve chapter

Oh God no, why don't you just strike me dead instead, oh please.

>I am le stronk smart independent woman who don't need no man
>everyone keeps telling her she is none of those things
>she constantly gets herself and others into trouble because stubborn and stupid

REEEEEEEEE

>>8150417
So just like a real women.

>>8150418

No it's actually just her. Other women in WoT range from stupid to competent but never as annoying and obnoxious as Nynaeve.

Is /sffg/ basically /tg/ without the reddit?

>>8150431
>without the reddit?
You are kidding, right?

>>8150452
Uh, without as much reddit?

>>8150279
:)

>>8150175
Sounds more like a man to me.

How do y'all feel about Brandon Sanderson refusing to have his heroes swear or drink or have pre-marital sex because of his Mormonism?

>>8150512
Fanfiction where Vin gets gangbanged by 5 nigger Inquisitors when

>>8150512

I don't give a shit either way because I don't read Sanderson. I got recommended WoK by the same guy that recommended fucking Twilight in high school back when nobody knew what it was. Nigger said it was good.

I'm not falling for it again.

>>8150516
fanfiction where you make better posts lmfao

>>8150512
I would take that hundredfold over gurm-wannabes that resort to banal disgusting shit to get the point that their setting is shit across

>>8150526
I'd actually do the exact opposite.

>>8150528
You're the haram that is making fantasy shit

>>8150526

>lonely girl wandering through the woods
>suddenly bandits

>Sanderson : I'm sorry M'lady but seeing as we are not joined in the holy bond of marriage we cannot rape you. Allow us to escort you out and see you to safety. Did I mention we're also straight edge?

>Gurm wannabe : 10 page detailed description of the rape including the thoughts of every single bandit, plus pictures.

Granted they're both shit, but at least the second doesn't shatter my suspension of disbelief into a thousand pieces.

>>8150534
No, fantasy is usually shit when it upholds traditionalist ideals that have no place in the questioning of the world we live in, unless the conservatism itself is the questioning. Obscuring your work by setting rules for yourself for no reason is helpful only if you were an awful writer to begin with.

>>8150538
>No, fantasy is usually shit when it upholds traditionalist ideals that have no place in the questioning of the world we live in, unless the conservatism itself is the questioning. Obscuring your work by setting rules for yourself for no reason is helpful only if you were an awful writer to begin with.

Is that you preganonette?

>>8150535
You do have a point anon.

>>8150540
Do you want your posts to get delete again? ;}

I just added all the Discworld CE covers to my Calibre. Might convert them to Kindle wallpapers too. I could zip and upload them for you guys if you want.

>>8150680
>using calibre
Sigil > Calibre

>>8150687
What's better about it? AFAIK Sigil is a reader/editor while Calibre is virtual library/interface with Kindle. What do you use Sigil for?

Are there more fantasy books like Mistborn with a girl as protag?

>>8150696
Fuck off shitposter

>>8150696
Well at least with paedophile anon at the helm females wilil never suffer lack of representation.

>>8150696
Yes, probably dozens of equality trashy power fantasies written over the decades by less famous authors, there's some on a few lists.

>>8150698
You're not exactly contributing with that stupid toad.

>>8150699
??

>>8150701
Care to list any?

>>8150705
No, lurk more or ask on reddit, they post that type of garbage regularly I assume.
They are much more into strong womyn than we are.

>>8150713
He's a paedo lolicon who likes underaged girls as main characters.

>>8150713
> lurk more
I'm asking because lurking didn't produce results.

>garbage
Subjective.

>womyn
So you're just an alt-right loony

>>8150713
Who's we?

>>8150724
Dinosaurs
>>8150715
I know, and he'll find that type of trash on other boards
>>8150719
>I'm asking because lurking didn't produce results.
It was posted in last thread, retard.
>Subjective.
Objective
>So you're just an alt-right loony
Yes, fuck off to some other board or site, this is for alt right only

>>8150726
>this is for alt right only

Uhhhhh

a lol

>>8150726
Iron Dragon's daughter was the only thing mentioned with a girl.
And it seems to be a meme book that gets literally shilled here so I'm not reading it.

>this is for alt right only
Maybe it's time to go to /x/

>>8150724
The approximate number of gay people on this board rounded up to make it sound like a plural.

>>8150728
The alt-right has about as much power on this board as a child throwing a tantrum. It's only really powerful if you acknowledge the tantrum on its own terms.

>>8150728
So you read absolute garbage, want more of the superficial, get a recommendation and then don't want to read it?
Well fuck off. /x/ is fine, as long as it isn't here.
>>8150727
If we convince him maybe he'll go away.

>>8150742
What's to convince? If you've bought the Scientology equivalent sales pitch of the alt-right, you're a bit of a waste to reason with. Just a punching bag for frustration, and you want that.

>>8150742
>Recommendation
Somebody admitted on literally shilling it and getting people to read shit.
So no, I'm not reading it because somebody admitted on memeing.

>>8150747
If you like Sanderson, give The Emperor's Soul and Warbreaker a whirl. Both have female protags.

Elantris (Emperor Soul's sequel) is less polished than his other works but also has a female deuteragonist.

>>8150747
>Somebody admitted on literally shilling it and getting people to read shit.
And? He wants people to read a book he likes.
So awful.
>So no, I'm not reading it because somebody admitted on memeing.
It's admittedly a good book, especially compared to Mistborn.
There's plenty of books that needed shilling, Book of the New Sun, Fafhrd and The Grey Mouser, we have a Lions of Al-(something), Iron Dragons Daughter and more that are "shilled".
There's also a lot more being shilled outside of sffg, great novels which aren't read as widely as they ought to be, for example Hilaire Belloc as the essential conservative history and politics who was never mentioned before 2-3 months.

>>8150755
Thanks.

>>8150760
Look up the definition of "shilling" maybe then you'd understand my post.

>>8150767
I understand it, it's just that you are fucking retarded.

>>8150747
The Pride of Chanur has a female protagonist, mrrhurrhurr.

>>8150824
I can confirm, this is even better than Mistborn

Best hard sci-fi? Thanks

>>8151181
my dick lmao

>>8151181
I know it's a meme right now but Leviathan Wakes actually isn't bad.

>>8151254
What a great post.

>>8151181
Baxter, Reynolds, and Greg Egan

>>8149151
FIGHT IN THE EVERSTORM WTF
I have to read the second book

>>8151567

"Kuso yarou!" snarled Szeth, wiping a ribbon of blood from the corner of his mouth. "Ore ga dare da to omotte yaru?!"

Electric guitars wailed in Kaladin's head as he watched light coalesce around Szeth's raised blade, indicating the preparation of Messatsu Tensei Ougi: Zantetsugetsumetsuken. Szeth's scream grew louder, while small rocks floated up off the quaking earth.

"Yare yare daze," muttered Kaladin.

>>8151623
Write Kaladin walking in on Shallan in the bath and getting face-kicked.

>>8150461
Certain threads on /tg/ are essentially there so 3rd party publishers can bitch about the company their developing products for, the level of interaction they have over there with the authors is insane.

>>8151181
Blindsight by Peter Watts.
The ebook is also free to download on the authors site.

It is honestly great.

>>8151655
Can confirm. I am not really expierenced in sci-fi (especially in hard sci-fi), but Blindsight and Echopraxia are really good books, and its sci-finese is pretty hard.

MARA: Guess what I'm thinking.

FAFHRD: That you're the Queen of Bliss. Aaah!

MARA: Aaaah back at you, and ooooh! And that you're the King of Beasts. No, silly, I'll tell you. I was thinking of how glad I am that you've had your southward adventurings before marriage. I'm sure you've raped or even made indecent love to dozens of southern women, which perhaps accounts for your wrongheadedness about civilization. But I don't mind a bit. I'll love you out of it.

FAFHRD: Mara, you have a brilliant mind, but just the same you greatly exaggerate that one pirate cruise I made under Hringorl, and especially the opportunities it afforded for amorous adventures. In the first place, all the inhabitants, and especially all the young women of any shore town we sacked, ran away to the hills before we'd even landed. And if there were any women raped, I being youngest would have been at the bottom of the list of rapists and so hardly tempted. Truth to tell, the only interesting folk I met on that dreary voyage were two old men held for ransom, from whom I learned a smattering of Quarmallian and High Lankhmarese, and a scrawny youth apprenticed to a hedge-wizard. He was deft with the dagger, that one, and had a legend-breaking mind, like mine and my father's.

MARA: Do not grieve. Life will become more exciting for you after we're married.

FAFHRD: That's where you're wrong, dearest Mara. Hold, let me explain! I know my mother. Once we're married, Mor will expect you to do all the cooking and tent-work. She'll treat you as seven-eighths slave and — perhaps — one-eighth my concubine.

MARA: Ha! You really will have to learn to rule your mother, Fafhrd. Yet do not fret, dearest, even about that. It's clear you know nothing of the weapons a strong and untiring young wife has against an old mother-in-law. I'll put her in her place, even if I have to poison her — oh, not to kill, only to weaken sufficiently. Before three moons have waxed, she'll be trembling at my gaze and you'll feel yourself much more a man. I know that you being an only child and your wild father perishing young, she got an unnatural influence over you, but —

FAFHRD: I feel myself very much the man at this instant, you immoral and poisoning witchlet, you ice-tigress; and I intend to prove it on you without delay. Defend yourself! Ha, would you — !

w-wew

>>8151868
Fafhrd is actually a massive asshole, but that's not as obvious yet.

>>8151868
GRI?

I am desperately looking for an audiobook I could listen to while working out. Generally I feel like I'm dying while working out so something easier to follow would be greatly appreciated.

>>8152080
Not one bit desu, it is not edgy at all.

>>8152134
Conan stories, Golden Age

>>8152223
I just looked it up, there are 5 different novels or novel series called Golden Age. Which one are you talking about?

>>8152134
You won't like it, but YA.

I found it incredibly difficult to follow Golden Age/Short Pulp like Smith*, Derleth or Howard.

Why doesn't Clark receive more attention? Even Lovecraft loved this guys stuff.

>>8152260
John C. Wright, space opera

>>8150698
Second foundation

>>8150512
And all three claims are false.

>>8152609
He means use recognizable real-world curse words, drink recognizably real-world liquor, and engage in non-tentacular real-world intercourse.

Any good fantasy with teasy monster girls, succubus or similar?

Any good fantasy with teasy monster girls, succubus or similar?

>>8152616
So he you does not like fantasy elements in a fantasy series? Wiggity wow what a shitposting surprise that is.

>>8152782
Faust

>>8152786
Oh, not the same guy, I prefer fantastic elements. High risk, high reward.

About to start Gardens Of The Moon.

I've read asoiaf, wot, most of Sanderson - what should I expect from this series?

>>8152782
Black Jewels Trilogy
Enjoy

>>8152954
To be completely lost, only at the end of the book will things make sense.

Is the iron shill's daughter anon here?
what was the needle and dogtail for? Why was she in a infinite loop? Who was the little girl with roses in the hair? Were all 3 the goddess?
What would have happened if Jane kissed the Lamia? Was the dragon supposed to be the snake in the garden of eden? Tempting the goddess' chosen astray? Is there a follow-up book explaining things?

should you read ben bova's grand tour series in any order?
I picked up farside today

>>8153191
You've been deconstructed and subverted my friend.

Anyone heard of this guy?

>>8153244

>>8153275
"We" is andifferwnt 1987 and brave New world mixed together.

>>8153245
>deconstructed and subverted
Not him, but what does that mean?
Nothing in the book makes sense? Should I avoid that book?

>>8153363
Some anon a while back was shilling for Iron Dragon's Daughter by going on about how it deconstructs this and subverts that, couldn't give a positive reason to read it, just that it brings up things you'd see in a fantasy novel and does something else with them. I made the assumption that it also turned the trope of "having fun while you're reading" on its head and gave it a miss.

What did he mean by this?

>>8150538
Orcs are not supposed to write or read fantasy. Get out of my genre.

>>8151255
It is terrible.

>>8152954

>I've read asoiaf, wot
>wot

Teach me wise sensei

I am near the end of Book 5, how do I stop from wanting to kill myself when it's a Nynaeve chapter? Hell EVERY other character is interesting to read about except her, it's like Jordan did it on bloody purpose.

>>8153373

I'm not the shill but you shouldn't read IDD because of inane reasons like deconstruction and subversion because those mean jack shit if the work isn't actually good.

You should read it because it -IS- actually good. Swanwick is a huge Wolfe fanboy and even though it shows more in Stations Of The Tide than in IDD, you can still feel the influence. The prose flows without pretentions but also without being plebby, the world is very interesting to read about, the character sfeel human and not cardboard, and the "villains" are by no means mustache twirling dark lords. If I had to find a flaw I'd say the ending is a bit weaker compared to the rest of the book, but still not Stephen King tier bad as far as endings go.

As a nice bonus, it's short and to the point. it's not some bullshit trilogy or quadrilogy, you read it and that's it. There's another book set in the same world but it's not a sequel.

>>8153870
>the "villains" are by no means mustache twirling dark lords
I really can't remember anything I've read since high school where they are.

>>8153879

Then it seems you avoided a shit ton of bad fantasy, like say, Eragon, Shannara, Mistborn, WoT, etc

>>8153884
>mustache-twirling
>Mistborn
The Lord Ruler was a good dude who had his situation spiral out of control, the koloss were just beasts, even Ruin was doing what he did out of depression and a desire to spare them from future suffering.

>>8153890

>The Lord Ruler was a good dude

Is this some 4chan "hitler did nothing wrong" dank meme? I haven't read Mistborn.

>>8153893
No, he was in-universe doing what he thought was absolutely necessary to keep everyone alive. They kill him in the first book and everything starts falling apart, it was a really bad idea.

>>8153897

>I haven't read Mistborn
>they kill him in the first book

T-thanks

>>8153905
Now you don't have to read a shit book.

>>8154140

Not like I can read anything else until I finish WoT anyway.

>>8154145
You can not read Wheel of Time

>>8154209

I've almost finished book 5 actually. I'm too committed to drop it now.

Anything good without stronk warrior wimmin? After brienne killed stannis I have zero tolerance for that shit.

>>8154226

To be fair, Brienne killing Stannis was

>show-only
>Stannis was in such a severely weakened state even a child could have killed him, also he probably had a severed femoral artery and was going to die anyway

But if women trigger you that much, I recommend reading Wolfe.

>>8154231
Wolfe has a lot of women and sometimes they are warriors, like one city in Long Sun.

>>8154231
Women don't trigger me, warrior women trigger me.

>you will never have a pet hus
Why live

>>8154279

Why?

>>8154220
>I'm too committed to drop it now.
lol
That'll change.

>>8154293

As someone who has already read it, can you explain this to me? >>8153859

>>8153890
>Ruin was doing what he did out of depression
Whoa, back the fuck up, nigga.

Ruin--the Shard itself, not its Vessel at the time, Leras--is the Cosmere embodiment of entropy and the like. Ruin's entire purpose is to wait for it ruin. Ruin did not want to save anyone.

>>8154285
They always have the exact same story and personality.

And they're in almost every single book I read, gets a bit dull desu.

>>8154311
I just realized that those symbols show how many spikes and where to place them, if you want to steal people's allomancy.

>>8153870
Please answer this >>8153191 since you read it.

>>8154311
>>8153890
Ati is owned by Ruin, Kelsier 'toys with the hearts of men' is a sociopath, Leras was losing his grip on reality and Rashek was misunderstood but completely incompetent.

>>8154371
How can a person read only fantasy published in the last two decades?

>>8153191

As best as I can remember it (it's been almost three years since I read it)

I have no clue about the needle and the dogtail. Maybe some alchemical shit since Jane studied alchemy. The loop and the roses girl were both the Goddess trying to mindfuck Jane for her own ends. Supposedly Lamias rob you of your will and memories upon kissing you so she would have been toast. Also I don't think Melanchton was supposed to be the snake, just a murder machine with a God complex (hence his burning hatred for anything Goddess related)

And finally, there is no sequel but there is a book set in the same universe. Dragons of Babel, IIRC.

>>8154399
Try it desu
Hull 3 zero, and iron daughter is approved

>>8154401
I need the shill to answer those for me then.
Thanks for the answer and rec, might check more swanwick books.

>>8154431
I have no need to go through a minefield

>>8154431
Did you finish Daughter? Or how far in are you?

>>8154442
Finish that is why I said approved, instead of "approved so far".

Kinda wish the ending had a little more explanations, waiting for the shill to come and clear things up.

I just finished Book of the Short Sun.
Needless to say I'm incredibly confused and will need a few days to recollect everything.
Did Silk and Horn become a single person?
Why did the inhumini attack the wedding?
What's the central theme? If seems to me it's the great plan of the Outsider again, to become the God of the new world.

How do I come up with fantasy names that doesn't sound like crap?

>>8154552
Use real words and names that are uncommon and/or arhaic.

>>8154539
>Did Silk and Horn become a single person?
Yes.
>Why did the inhumini attack the wedding?
Can't recall. Didn't they piss of one of them that escaped?
>If seems to me it's the great plan of the Outsider again, to become the God of the new world.
I always interpreted the Outsider to be the Abrahamic God, in contrast with all the fake Gods of the whorl. So I don't interpret him as having an active role in the story, though he's of course important for Silk's faith.

>>8154552

lots and lots of accents between syllables of each name is the way to go.

Lek'rahl'grek'wolo'lo, for instance.

So, on the topic of Sanderson. Do you think Kalladin will end up with Shallan, or will he keep getting cucked by Adolin "No powerz" Kholin? This is a very important issue.

>>8154581
see
>>8151623

>>8154557
I guess that makes sense, old names it is.

>>8154552
Think of a city and remove the first letter.
>Ondon
>Aris
>Adrid
>Elbourne

>>8154626
Ingenious!

>>8154626
>An Francisco
>Ew York
>Ainwright
>Xford
>Anterbury
>Ewport

>>8150105
An adventure story set in the library of babel. I know a suicidally boring setting doesn't necessarily lend itself to adventure, but I had some ideas. That's on hold for now

>>8154633
Nice to meet you, my name's Exico City.

>>8154641
See? It works perfectly.

>>8154646
Well met Exico! My name is Ubai.

>>8154654
Greetings Ubai. Allow me to introduce you to my Russian friend Aint Petersburg, née Etrograd Eningrad.

>>8154654
Greetings Ubai. Allow me to introduce you to my Russian friend Aint Petersburg, née Etrograd Eningrad and his Turkish cousin, Stanbul not Onstantinople.

>mfw this ridiculous names are STILL better than what Robert Jordan came up with

The cronies of the evil lord are called Darkfriends. I shit you not. Dark fucking friends.

What does /lit/ think of steampunk? Why everytime I mention steampunk I get people so triggered? Why is that? I really don't get it.
If you don't plan on murdering me tonight, recommend me some steampunk shit (I've read the ones mentioned in the op recs)

>>8154575
>I always interpreted the Outsider to be the Abrahamic God, in contrast with all the fake Gods of the whorl. So I don't interpret him as having an active role in the story, though he's of course important for Silk's faith.
The role isn't active as a player tangibly in it, it's more like a massive cosmic plan in which he ordained everything while leaving the room for faith, redemption, moral acts and so on in the characters.
That's the core of the other Solar Cycle series, in my interpretation.

>>8154725

>ordained everything while leaving the room for faith, redemption, moral acts and so on in the characters.

Not him but isn't this a paradox though? I never saw how you can have both free will AND omniscience. They seem mutually exclusive to me.

If God has already decided what will happen, your choice is not really "free", now is it?

>>8154732
If I knew everything you will ever do, but never interacted with you, how would your choices not be your own?
I can't get the omniscience impars free will at all.

>>8154377
Yeah any symbols with a line piercing should represent Hemalurgy. Although curious that they're in the first book.

>>8154392
Oh fuck me, why did I say Leras instead of Ati.
Fun fact: If Rashek was a Radiant, he would be a (not very good) Skybreaker. Nigga also had a swivel chair.

>>8154736

>If I knew everything you will ever do, but never interacted with you, how would your choices not be your own?

Because if you know what I will do BEFORE I do it, then I haven't made that decision yet, therefore if you know it all the same it can only mean somebody or something else has made that decision for me.

And when I do it, I think it is my own choice but that is just an illusion.

>>8154743
How does knowing in any way logically lead to that decision being made for you, even if it is completely made by you?
It's what I'd call a clear non sequitur.

>>8154747

It goes like this :

you know the decision --->therefore the decision already exists, since it is in your head--->therefore somebody or something must have created it--->but I haven't made it yet, so it can't be me--->therefore it is not MY decision because if it was, nobody could know it until the moment I made it --->so I do the thing, thinking it's of my own free will but in actuality following God's plan

Either we don't really have free will (or at least a form of it that I would find satisfying) or God is not omniscient. Omniscience implies the ILLUSION of free will.

>350 pages into Dune and thinking of dropping it

help

I could have justified dropping it at 50 or 100, but I'm too far in now. When the hell does it get interesting?

>>8154754
>It goes like this :
>you know the decision --->therefore the decision already exists, since it is in your head
This is a decision in potentiality and not actuality, hence the existence, however certain is not there yet.
->therefore somebody or something must have created it
This doesn't lead from the premise. If I go forward in time, follow you and write everything down, know everything, go back and never interact with you, the will will be your own and my perfect knowledge will not hinder you in any way.
--->but I haven't made it yet, so it can't be me
Because it's not been made yet, potentiality versus actuality
->therefore it is not MY decision because if it was, nobody could know it until the moment I made it --
Not at all, I can know you will do something, for example eat or take a piss, with complete and absolute certainty, but it doesn't lead to you eating not being willed by you.
It's yours completely independently of any outside knowledge.
->so I do the thing, thinking it's of my own free will but in actuality following God's plan
Yes, because an infinite, all powerful being can weave the plan around your choice, which is left to you. It's how planning works, take a military action. I am assaulting your line and I know you will respond. My plan has woven your own choice, not made by me into itself, but the will stays your own.
>Either we don't really have free will (or at least a form of it that I would find satisfying) or God is not omniscient. Omniscience implies the ILLUSION of free will.
Omniscience implies perfect knowledge, not control of individual entities.
Like I've said, there's absolutely no reason why the logic of this would follow at all, it's incredibly unrelated.

>>8154757
Tbh never.
But it's really easy to read and you are 60% in, no reason to quit now. It isn't drop tier.

Also, I'll keep the thread on topic, no more philosophy.

>>8154782
48% actually according to Kindle.

Oh well, at least I learned my lesson and will stick to the 50 page rule from now on. I kept going "I'm sure something is going to happen in the next 50 pages, everyone says this is the best SF novel of all time!" and well...

>>8154819

I have a rule that if I begin a book or a series I must finish it if it kills me

I wish I didn't have this rule since I began to read the wheel of time.

>>8154835
That's some pretty severe autismo you've got there.

>>8154835
You don't know true suffering until you hit Crossroads

>>8154992

I'm almost finished with Fires Of Heaven. CoT is pretty far down the road, even though I'm a fast reader.

>>8154835
I have this autism too.

Why did GRRM have to make all of the ASoIaF books 800-1200 pages long? I am only 100 pages away from finishing AGoT with all the other books still to go. The Winds of Winter will probably be out by the time I finish A Dance With Dragons as well.

>>8154716
>What does /lit/ think of steampunk?

Awful setting, awful people interested in it, all around awful.

>>8155000
Winters heart to Knife of Dreams is the real slog. You can noticeably tell that Jordan's health was declining as he wrote these

>>8155005
They're some good articles that explain why.

Fantasy novels have and will continue to increase in size, we're looking at the average novel having 1000 pages in the next decade at this rate.

>>8154716
But I am planning to murder you tonight.
Sweet dreams, anon.

>>8155005

>The Winds Of Never
>coming out
>ever

>>8155006
>>8155023
pls don't bully
pls don't kill me
I still don't get all the hate

>>8155032

>>8155050
I'm not the biggest ASOIAF fan by any means, but I have to admire Martin for being a top-tier troll.

>>8155050
>Read GRRM's blog
>He's a raging asshole
>See this and that video with him showing that women his toy soldiers
Hmm.

>>8155059
>He's a raging asshole

He's really not, Theodore.

>>8155063
Defending Nielson after he verbally abused Wright's wife and then right after go on to personally attack him with strawmans isn't being a raging asshole?

I really would like to read some pulpy space fantasy. Something like the John Carter books. I actually will read one of the John Carter books I've not read yet, but what are some other things I should be checking out?

>>8155080

>personally attack him with strawmans

His argument made perfect sense. John C. Fedora was under the mistaken assumption that just because GRRM purchased one of his stories ONCE then his entire body of work must be 10/10.

>>8155093
No it didn't, that isn't what Wright argued at all, essentially Wright discovered other Tor authors were slandering him so he rightfully complained, Martin got upset because his personal dick sucker Irene got a slap on the wrist for insinuating she spoke for the entirety of Tor.

Martin then goes on to insult Wright's entire corpus, at which point Wright essentially responded with "Everything :^)?".

>>8155006
I play Warmachine, do I count?
>>8155081
Have you read Alfred Bester? His space pulp is pretty decent. Stars our Destination.
>>8155157
As much as I like Wright in terms of his novels, he's pretty bad at arguing for anything on his blog.

>>8148905
>Dahak Trilogy: can't remember the book
>Crew member gets captured by low-techs, is going to be burned at the stake for heresy
>High-Tech obliteration ensues by the remaining crew

Not much of a "battle" but it was satisfying.

>>8155178
>he's pretty bad at arguing for anything on his blog.

Sometimes I suspect It's particularly on purpose, he's trying to cultivate his persona.

>>8155178

He also has this ridiculously fake "old school" style that reads as if he's trying really really hard to be Chesterton while only managing to sound like a pompous ass. I can practically hear him *tipping* over the screen.

Is there any fantasy books about righteous religious warriors slaying librul sodomites in taverns? And said sect then being loved by other godless sodomites even as the blood is still fresh and the sect calling out for more dead degenerates?

>>8155005
They go by really fast, it's not high lit by any means

>>8154581
>Kaladin
>Willingly shacking up with a lighteyes
Ain't gonna happen. He's going to marry HONOR.

>>8155178
>As much as I like Wright in terms of his novels, he's pretty bad at arguing for anything on his blog.
I root for him but yeah, you can tell why he didn't make it as a lawyer. I still cracked a smile when he said "let's stop wasting GRRM's time so he can finish Winds of Winter for us."

>>8155213
Comparison of the actually great sf he wrote and the drivel of the blog, it sounds plausible.
I mean I agree with almost all of his conclusions, but the way he reaches them is...lacking.

>>8155279
my diary desu

>>8155317
That finish was actually a top meme.
And I'm not so sure that's why his law business failed, it would be insanely popular and respected by most if his views were progressive.
>>8155279
I'm afraid religious people in sff haven't written enough drivel for something like that to exist.
Even the mormons know better than that.

>>8155334
What are you smoking, mormons are top tier SFF. Biggest mormon hack out there is Stephanie Meyer, and they still invented the four-movie trilogy for her.

>>8155353
Which mormons are top tier sff?
It fucking aren't OSC and by God it certainly isn't Sanderson

>>8155353

OSC is good, Sanderson is ok, Correia is garbage, any other Mormons in SFF?

>>8155317
>I root for him but yeah, you can tell why he didn't make it as a lawyer

I don't know anything about Wright other than what I've just read on his Wikipedia page but that isn't really fair, despite what you've seen on TV making it as a lawyer after the 70's is incredibly difficult if not borderline impossible; now-a-days most lawyers work for the state earning little more than minimum wage.

>>8155356
>>8155357
OK, top tier at making money at SF. Which requires a maximum drivel level higher than, say, Gor.

Any idea if there's any market for a "golden age of sail and sorcery" type book, or would I have to go full steampunk if I wanted something like that to have a chance of getting published?

>>8155357
Son of the Black Sword is literally the second coming of the pulp swordsmen, pham.

>>8155371
They make tons of money, that's for sure, but neither is in the say top 20 of the said genre.

>>8155373
Anon *&Sorcery is dead full stop.

>>8155357
Wait, Correia is mormon? I know John Moses Browning was, but is part of their religion gun worship now? I might just have to convert.

>>8155373
Disregard >>8155381, it's coming back, I feel it in my bones.

>>8155375

we don't need any second or third comings, we need innovative, original stuff to save SFF.

>>8155381
Can you believe that First Law was marketed by sword and sorcery?
That's fucking offensive desu

>>8155389
>save SFF
From what?

>>8155387
It ain't bruh, It isn't just *&Sorcery, adult fantasy is spiralling into the ground faster than SF ever did.

Double fucking digits declining sales year over year.

>>8155400

Stagnation. Endless longing for a "golden age", real or perceveid, that leaves much of the new output sterirely trying to parrot the great works of the 50s, 60s, 70s, you get my drift.

>>8155403
>waaah normies aren't buying epic fantasy novels

>>8155409
...you mean the one we've been in since Lester del Rey and Terry Brooks proved fantasy fans will buy any crap with a unicorn on the spine in 1977?

>>8155409
Because we all know that when a genre stagnates it stays that way forever and nobody ever comes up with new, innovative ideas that bloom in the fallow market.

I'm... I'm sorry. I just wanted to know if there was any market for nautical themed fiction or if it died with Pirates of the Caribbean. I didn't mean to start a whole argument.

>>8155418

I hope not, but I don't see any lights and the end of the tunnel right now.

We've just switched from Tolkien Mode to GRRM Mode.

>>8155419
There's always a market. It was probably much bigger when Pirates of the Caribbean was popular but there's always a market IF you know how to market it. Have fun making snack money on books with 15 twitter followers.

>>8155419
Gene Wolfe published Pirate Freedom in 2007 if that helps.

>>8155419
People just want to read good books dude. The 'is there a market for' question is dumb by itself. You shouldn't be writing for a market but create a work that is you and you can be proud of.

>>8155426
And one of the most popular shows of the decade is GRRM. And some of the most popular movies of the last decade were Tolkien. It's really too bad that our current crop of new authors is obsessed with the camera-eye voice, but it is what it is.

For myself, I'm hoping we can take the good parts of good LNs - the willingness to do something new with a subject that's been pounded into the ground, characters that are solidly founded on archetypes but go beyond, freedom of idiosyncracy, the web novel/light novel/anime ecosystem - and leave the crap behind.

You know, I wouldn't mind having a similar system even if we had the crap along with it.
>every edgy high schooler is writing
>crowd tastes push 1% of it to the top
>1% of that gets polished by editors
>1% of lottery winners become actual good authors
But right now we've got the submit-a-complete-manuscript-and-also-find-an-agent barrier to entry.

>>8155448
>But right now we've got the submit-a-complete-manuscript-and-also-find-an-agent barrier to entry.
Like It's that easy,

Now you've got to convince a publisher in <140 words, hire your own editors and pay people with 10k+ twitter followers to tweet something positive about your book.

>>8155462
Just use Wattpad ;-^>

But seriously I hope we start seeing best-sellers come out of there.

>>8155435
Well, yes, but you have to admit that it's nice to have a chance, however small, to have something you've written get published. And publishers are very concerned with marketability.

>>8155469
From the rumours I've heard micropublishers buy ghostwriter from Wattpad and release their shit under already established authors.

Does anyone else have a problem coming up with believable conflicts in constructed cultures because you realize that things wouldn't really be that bad and you don't need to force them to adopt our values?

>>8155523
What? You don't need justify conflicts or have believable values.

New Thread:

>>8155979
>>8155979
>>8155979
>>8155979
>>8155979

>>8154739
>If Rashek was a Radiant, he would be a (not very good) Skybreaker.
Oh definitely.