/lit/ - Literature

Don't judge the actions thoughts of people of the past in accordance with present morals. That's it. I can understand that you might be reading a book that you really love, and come upon a throwaway line about ugly, savage negroes or something, and it might get you down. Just understand, as I'm sure you do, that that's just the way things were back then, and there was (probably) no intent to hurt black people. Someone writing such things today would certainly mean to throw fire to the flame and would be actively trying to be an asshole.

Much like how today one can make fun of religion or religious figures without causing commotion. Mostly everyone, whether believer or not, will just laugh along. That wasn't the case 500 years ago, when any derogatory comment about not only God but the clergy would get you thrown in a dungeon or executed. To say that bullshit in that time period you would really have to want to offend someone, but not today.

>>8122594
Well, anti-black racism as we know it only came into existence about 400 years ago when slave economies had to justify why they we're treating other human beings like shit. Ergo, the scientific justifications and that "curse of Ham" nonsense.

Before that you should be gold. keep in mind, almost every culture that engaged in this kind of thing (whether its slavery, imperialism etc.) would always find some kind of myth to justify their superiority. Greeks had several racial theories about why everywhere else was full of plebs, Rome had their barbarian "racism", the Ottomans thought that their shade of brown was superior to black and white skin, and so on.

Don't let this diminish your self worth but realize that you can read their works from a unique position which helps you understand how even the greatest thinkers in history could be the most ignorant. Pol/ has no such advantage because any mention of whites not being the greatest thing since sliced bread results in the spamming of autistic memes "HAHAHAHA WHAT W-W-W-WWE WAZ KANGS I BET". Exercise a healthy interest in history and sociology, and away you go.

Start with the Greeks.

LOL when the Romans were the greatest bookworms of all times my ancestors were still living in the mud, inventing cheese and throwing rocks at each other. Like Philipp Melanchthon gave a fuck about that later and blogposting to Luther about his inferiority? kek nope, you twat.

That's like asking how should a white man go about delving into black lit without having to stumble on rants and bouts of retarded racial rhetorics every so often. And how would anyone possibly appreciate the qualities of the most ancient western lit from religious times nowadays? How comes they're still so highly-regarded?
If you can't take derogatory content that would, fired blindly, apply to you (yes directly to you, not even considering the gap in centuries) then forget literature and stick to trigger-free, content-free YA.

>>8122594
what the fuck are you even asking? you fucking racist nigger. your fucking "identity" and "self-worth", are you fucking kidding me? Where do you live?
>non-white inferiority
there is. You literally rape and murder 10x more than whites.
>my identity and self-worth
the main reason why you should read is so you can change your stupid preconceived notions, nog.

>>8122695
Lol, see black anon, you wont end up like this retard if you actually read you the Western canon

>>8122594
Stop being black.

The idea that the canon is exceptionally racist / xenophobic / nationalistic is bullshit. Nationalism is noticeable only in Slavic literature, real xenophobia against other nations nowhere (as far as I know), and racism against blacks only in anglo saxon literature (and very rarely - Melville attacks racism, for example).
Read the books already. And use your brain while doing that.

>>8122703
this nigger believes there's racism in the west, because of this stupid preconceived notion, there is. He literally creates racism when he shits out this idiotic non-sense

>>8122720
>this nigger
>racism is non-exist

>>8122594
I'm not trying to be a cunt but without thinking less of your individual self it would probably be better if you accept that black people as a rule are actually inferior.

It's pretty much a fact. Which you shouldn't consider a bad thing since you seem like a smart lad and being both smart and black makes the world your oyster.

>>8122594
>works all day in labor-intense job, gets beat all day, no comforts to speak of, sleeps in dirt
>has l'oreal ad skin

LMAO

>>8122594
disregard western cannon, acquire currency, use it to buy the 40 acres you never got

>>8122679
it is officially time for this post to be called underrated

>>8122594
Just read 'Pimp' by Iceberg Slim afterwards you'll feel cool as shit.

>>8122594
>how should a black man go about delving into the Western canon in order to receive the social and intellectual benefits of studying great works of English literature, without damaging his identity and sense of self-worth?
what

>>8122746
#victimstatus

>>8122725
>niggers self-identify themselves as niggers
>niggers call other niggers niggers
>arabs call niggers niggers
>slant-eyed mother fuckers call niggers niggers
>latinos call niggers niggers
>white cant call niggers niggers
why is this?

>>8122594
By dissociating from other blacks and being a Stirnerist individual.

>>8122765
And this is why people should read.

Also
>latinos call niggers niggers
Ive never seen someone so butthurt over a word.

>>8122765
because we're the only race cucked enough to think we need permission

>>8122720
>preconceived notion
the word you're looking for is "paradigm"
lol

>>8122679
>400 years ago when slave economies

>he thinks that African slavery en masse began only 400 years ago
>he thinks that slave economies didn't exist before that

>>8122594
Let me put this to you in terms you can understand:

ooga booga noonga wonga bix nood muhfugga

>>8122800
>didn't read the post
>"anti-black racism as we know it only came into existence about 400 years ago"

Not slave economies you retard but anti-black racism in Western culture

>keep in mind, almost every culture that engaged in this kind of thing (whether its slavery, imperialism etc.) would always find some kind of myth to justify their superiority

>>8122594
OP one suggestion, most of the time authors of the past associated blackness with barbarianism. The easiest way around this is just whenever you read negro etc. read barbarian. The vast majority of authors would never have dreamt of saying that if born in the modern time. The same could be said about sexism in the past too.

>>8122809
>>keep in mind, almost every culture that engaged in this kind of thing (whether its slavery, imperialism etc.) would always find some kind of myth to justify their superiority
[citation needed]

>>8122695
I don't think a guy coming here to ask about reading as much of the western canon as possible is doing it to relax between rapes and murders, you bitter cunt.
I want /pol/ to stay on their fucking containment board.

>>8122594

Balance your lit by reading tons of world history.

>>8122920
Only if you basement-dwelling manbabies go back to /a/.

>>8122679
>Well, anti-black racism as we know it only came into existence about 400 years ago when slave economies had to justify why they we're treating other human beings like shit.

>Before that you should be gold. keep in mind, almost every culture that engaged in this kind of thing (whether its slavery, imperialism etc.) would always find some kind of myth to justify their superiority. Greeks had several racial theories about why everywhere else was full of plebs, Rome had their barbarian "racism", the Ottomans thought that their shade of brown was superior to black and white skin, and so on.

Well which one is it? Nothing until 400 years ago, or always existing across all civilizations? And why is it that the continent of Africa remains the nexus of slavery even today?

>>8122939
I don't watch anime
That was just the most appropriate reaction image I had to your pointless tantrum

>>8122943
Again, actually read the post. Most societies have engaged in some sort of biological essentialism to justify their own superiority, but the particular notion that whites are superior to blacks (and indeed, that there's any sort of unified "white" race as opposed to a bunch of different sorts of Europeans) arose around 400 years ago with the selling of African slaves to Europeans.

>>8122943
I think the distinction was why it appears in the western canon and then the lack vicissitude in the historical mindset set of "racial nationalism." They are distinct points and the specific anti-black racism that we see primarily in the western canon (90% composed in the last 400 years) is from that economic justification mindset.

>>8122961
hey fellow anon, lets suck eachothers' diiiiks

blacks will never contribute anything worthwhile to western civilisation and aren't a part of it, stop trying

I love how the Jews have convinced whites that being pro-white is always being anti-something. Anti-black, anti-semitic, anti-women, whatever the fuck.

But Chinese being pro-Chinese... that's just how they are, those silly wacky yellow people aren't they cute.

>>8122594
>sense of identity...

Spooked. Anyways, I recommend discarding racialization, for it is precisely those Europeans/White Americans who drew the arbitrary line of black around you. I'm half native (not Elizabeth Warren the blue eyes white Cherokee either) and it's through philosophy that I came to discard the framework of race which was fundamentally undermining every intellectual and social endeavor I had made in my life prior to that point. It had in the past influenced so many of my decisions, from my dating habits to my choice of school and almost universally negatively.

Most of the good writers of America were anti-racist and anti-colonialist anyways. I kind of understand where you're coming from but it really is a stupid thing to worry about.

>>8122679
Medieval Arab literature often talks about black people as though they are part of the fauna of Africa.

Hi OP, showing my support with a friendly reminder to ignore the buttmad racist wagecucks.

They're literally cardboard. Like, I can't take anything they say seriously, unless they have something cogent to actually say.

>>8122594
>Many of those novels were written at a time when non-white (non-European (non-British/American)) inferiority was simply assumed, and it reflects in the work

What the hell are you talking about? How exactly do you even want to know wether or not something "racially loaded" is in the works without reading them?

Either you listen too much to progressive lefts (idiots) or you want to bait us.

>>8122800
Didn't you read his post ?

>>8122961
But there wasn't much of a unified white race at that time; it would still be centuries until people like the Irish and Italians were considered white.

>>8122594
Just read man. Grasp the nettle. It isn't as bad as you might think in general and where it is it gives you perspective from the comfort of a book.

When you say "awareness of racial dynamics" you mean you have been made to be afraid of something important because you have a particular colour of skin. You've been double bluffed by racist "antiracists"

>>8122594
Just realize you're an inferior nigger and come at it from that perspective?

>>8122679
The Arabs had slaves way before 400 years ago and they were racist as fuck.

>>8122594
>how should a black man go about delving into ...
The same like any white man.

>>8122594
As an american who happens to be black, stop identifying with externals and stop being a little bitch. This question is bitchmade you dumb nigger.

>>8123099
>Everything you siad

If you're a lurking anon: Op, you don't have to recycle this trash

If you really are an "american who happens to be black": Dude, you have been on 4chan way to long. Seriously, take a step back and reevaluate yourself.

>>8122913
>almost every culture that engaged in this kind of thing (whether its slavery, imperialism etc.) would always find some kind of myth to justify their superiority
>almost every culture
>[citation needed]
He did say "almost" every culture
Maybe he should've used "some" instead

>>8123151
I am and no I haven't. Black people by-and-large suck. I mean white people suck too. Most every sucks but me and people like me.

>>8123161
>Most every sucks
Truth.

>>8122594
>how should a black man go about delving into the Western canon in order to receive the social and intellectual benefits of studying great works of English literature, without damaging his identity and sense of self-worth?
Many of those novels were written at a time when non-white (non-European (non-British/American)) inferiority was simply assumed, and it reflects in the work. A few years ago, this wouldn't have been a problem, but unfortunately the Pandora's box of my awareness of racial dynamics has been opened, and I can't really ignore it. There's got to be a way of approaching study at an angle and remove that allows literature to transform oneself positively while eschewing what might leave one feeling less than.

Why would your self-worth be damaged? Everyone in the past hated everyone else, don't feel special. 90% of the time black people aren't even going to come up, and if they do it'll just be in passing. Women have absolutely no problem with this and they have to deal with authors shitting all over them in practically every book. My lecturer in early Irish literature was a woman, she was a scholar of Táin Bó Cuailnge, where one of the central morals of the story is "Free women are dirty incompetent whores and can't be trusted with anything". I'm an atheist and I've read authors who think atheists are animals with no soul, I'm an Irishman and I've read authors who thought that the Irish were barbarian savages only good for murder and drinking. It didn't phase me one bit. You honestly sound like you've drank the Social Justice kool-aid, and that's coming from a staunch leftist. If you love literature and the English language, then read for that sake. You're (I assume) a westerner. Your identity should be strengthened by the western canon, not damaged.

I'll post a quote from Seamus Heaney, where he talks about accepting his English language heritage as well as his Irish language. It's mostly relevant to Ireland but you should try to take something from it.

>I tended to conceive of English and Irish as adversarial tongues, as either/or conditions rather than both/ands, and this was an attitude which for a long time hampered the development of a more confident and creative way of dealing with the whole vexed question-the question, that is, of the relationship between nationality, language, history, and literary tradition in Ireland.
>Luckily, I glimpsed the possibility of release from this kind of cultural determinism early on, in my first arts year at Queen's University, Belfast, when we were lectured on the history of the English language by Professor John Braidwood. Braidwood could not help informing us, for example, that the word "whiskey" is the same word as the Irish and Scots Gaelic word uisce, meaning water, and that the River Usk in Britain is there fore to some extent the River Uisce (or Whiskey)

>>>cont.

>>8123178
>and so in my mind the stream was suddenly turned into a kind of linguistic river of rivers issuing from a pristine Celto-British Land of Cockaigne, a riverrun of Finnegans Wakespeak pouring out of the cleft rock of some pre-political, prelapsarian, ur-philological Big Rock Candy Mountain—and all of this had a wonderfully sweetening effect upon me. The Irish /English duality, the Celtic/Saxon antithesis were momentarily collapsed, and in the resulting etymological eddy a gleam of recognition flashed through the synapses and I glimpsed an elsewhere of potential which seemed at the same time to be a somewhere being remembered. The place on the language map where the Usk and the uisce and the whiskey coincided was definitely a place where the spirit might find a loophole, an escape route from what John Montague has called "the partitioned intellect," away into some unpartitioned linguistic country, a region where one's language would not be a simple badge of ethnicity or a matter of cultural preference or official imposition, but an entry into further Ianguage. And I eventually came upon one of these loopholes in Beowulf itself.

Stop thinking in terms of either black or western, rather both black and western. Reforge your partitioned intellect. Reclaim your birthright.

>>8123161
>Everything you siad 2.0

Anon, for some, years of 4chan veiwing is to long. But apparently for you months or days is to much. I have yet to hear "an american who happens to be white" talk about how white people are bitchmade [insert racial slur here].

I don't know the satistics but from my own lurking it would seem that most racism is aimed towards blacks (after that would be jews mabye). It honestly looks like you have experienced 4chan so much that you have started to believe the things that makes 4chan notorious horrible.

I know you still don't agree but a person being racist to another of the same color is one of the most meta-ironic yet pitiful things i can think of

>>8122975
western civilization sucks, so probably not

>>8123202
>I have yet to hear "an american who happens to be white" talk about how white people are bitchmade [insert racial slur here].
Is this your attempt at "inb4 calling me a bitch"?

You're a fucking bitch m8. Plus that guy wasn't calling black people in general "bitchmade" it was aimed specifically at OP and his attitude.

But hey lucky that dumb-not-a-nigger-because-only-words-are-racist-and-not-attitudes has you here to police how he, a black person, talks to other black people.

>>8123178
>Women have absolutely no problem with this
Are you having a laugh, mate?

>>8123202
Your logic is literally that of a /pol/tard calling someone a cuck. No one should be forced to like their own race, personally I don't give a shit about racial issues but your implication that it's "sad" for someone to dislike their own race is manipulative and disingenuous.

>>8123041
Is two out of all of Europe, based on sentiments localized to the USA, really the best you could come up with?

>>8123219
>Are you having a laugh, mate?
Different cultures m8.

>>8123041
The unified white people meme is literally invented by niggers and Americans who are unable to distinguish different peoples and don't have a racial and cultural identity of their own

>>8123227
> racism against Irish people was a US thing
Would honestly knock your block off for that stupid piece of bullshit.

Italians themselves are a special case since Sicilians weren't considered particularly Italian for a long time. City state culture lasted a very very long time. If you bring up North and South Italy you'll get some choice language going on now even.

>>8123227
>Irish discrimination
>localized to the USA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Irish_sentiment

>>8123076
Which is why I mentioned the Ottomans

>>8123152
Name one imperialist civilisation that wasn't racist

>>8123227
This is why pol/ needs to read a fucking book

>>8123099
Lets step into the Twilight Zone for a second

>Twilight Zone Themesong.mp3
>Be yourself
>(wait, this is a twilight zone)
>be whatever you want to be
>imagine if, you are willing...
>a world
>the only people who say nigger are blacks, but only to other blacks
>hispanics say beaner-wetbacks but only to other hispanics
>White people say redneck-cumstain but only to other white people
>asians say chink but only to other asians
>what a wonderful world it would be.mp3
>we wouldn't hate everyone else,
>but rather, we would hate ourselves
>4chan racism would amount to white people calling other white people cumstained-birdshit
>Jails would be filled with civil wars of blacks and the word nigger being thrown around likeaa womans mood during pms
>hood gangs, hispanic gangs, and biker gangs gangs be more diverse than ever because people would want to get away from there color as much as possible
>mabye we should stop hateing every one else
>and start hating ourselves
>ed, edd, and eddy theme song.mp3

>>8123262
If you know any Mongol racism facts I'd be interested to know. They were probably racist about the Chinese or something

lol, the level of critical thinking on display in this thread re: race really sheds a new light on all the shitty, insecure "lit advice" that gets spread on this forum, especially by self-proclaimed "auto didacts" who couldn't make it through college like the rest of their peers, and as a result spending their days masturbating so as to avoid facing their own pathetic personal failures.

Fuck off /lit/

Just read the fucking books

T. Black

>>8123275
blacks can't read

>>8123202
I'm not a newfig.

> I have yet to hear "an american who happens to be white" talk about how white people are bitchmade [insert racial slur here].

That's obvious.

>I don't know the satistics but from my own lurking it would seem that most racism is aimed towards blacks (after that would be jews mabye). It honestly looks like you have experienced 4chan so much that you have started to believe the things that makes 4chan notorious horrible.

Confirmed for knowing very few actual black people. I went to a black high school for 4 years. Black people are animals with some exception. They are the exception that proves the rule. I went to predominately white schools until high school so I know both worlds. I have motion sensing cameras, and motion sensing lights and always have my screen door locked because I live in a black area. When I lived in ohio we could just leave our doors unlocked in the day times because white people don't burgle unless they are trash.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. You have this concrete ideas from vague observations. You should listen to me.I know what you don't.

>>8123272
>self-proclaimed "auto didacts"
What did he mean by this?

>>8123271
True, you got me there although the Mongolians seem to be an exception to a lot of historical trends

>>8123271
The Mongols clearly thought of other people as lower than themselves since they slaughtered millions of them like cattle, they thought of civilized people in general as soft and weak (hence why they kept returning people to the steps to prevent them getting soft while ruling civilized folks)

>>8123284
>because white people don't burgle unless they are trash.
> burgle
Time to give up the charade you non burger-leriser

>>8123287
Pretty sure he meant that the only thing he has going for him is that he attends a decent university, so he decided to make everyone aware of how deeply insecure he is in a thread that has nothing to do with him, or with post-secondary education.

>>8123216
>Is this your attempt at "inb4 calling me a bitch"

Lol,wut

>But hey lucky that dumb-not-a-nigger-because-only-words-are-racist-and-not-attitudes

Anon, i black too. I understand your annoyance with my opinion but in my life expirence calling someone a bitchmade nigger is usually not a good way to get them to make important life decisions" thats all. ( But if that method works for you then by all means, continue)

Op is trying to avoid racism, and here you guys are, throwing it in his face. Am i missing something here?

>>8123292
> they must have had racist thoughts because they were imperialist
Right o
>>8123291
The more I find out about them the more I like them. Women even commanded a lot of power, so contrary to popular portrayals they were quite progressive.

>>8123294
Fingernails are dirty cus I've been gardening. Fingers are fat because of a new medication I'm about to get off of which made me gain 50 lbs in 3 months. Real nigra though.

>>8123292
Although I don't know much about them, I assume at some point they grew a superiority complex despite their tolerance of other groups

>>8123312
That's a male hand.

>>8123284
>le I know black people better than anyone meme
>le only blacks commit crimes
>except le bad white people

What does this sting of unsubstantiated, unproveable nonsense have to so with the OP'S question?

>>8122765
>niggers self identify

I know it's dumb but there is a big diffrence between nigga and nigger. It's stupidly big actually, don't know how it got to be that way

>white can't whites call niggers niggers

No one should be using racial slurs for anyone, it makes you sound stupid no matter the race. Is your vocabulary so small that you would really want to lower yourself like that?

>>8123299
>but in my life expirence calling someone a bitchmade nigger is usually not a good way to get them to make important life decisions
OP seems to be in a malaise and maybe something like that maggoty breast Jung wrote about would help to snap out of it.

I think you're right, my above post is probs misguided tbqh. But I've already put my better worded opinion in further up, of you're thinking "this isn't for me because I happen to have this colour skin" then you've already gone into a racist line of thought.

>>8123310
That's fine, but do they or do they not fit the trend that they look done upon people of other civilizations? I'm genuinely curious because I dont know much about them

>>8123312
post tits

>>8123312
Okay okay, but really is burgle like an Ohio thing or something? I thought all yall said burglarize

>>8122594
I think the person person to ask would be a well read black guy/gal?

I think people are generally right when they say you just have to understand the dynamics of the time, and the it's up to you to decide how you feel about in each instance.

It's hard for me to relate, I think ask a Black person. I don't read anything older than late 1800s anyway.

>>8123312
a/s/l

>>8123324
They were also absolute barbarians who butchered civilians in droves.

>>8123324
>but do they or do they not fit the trend that they look done upon people of other civilizations?
Not sure. I know they had some issues in China but then adopted a lot of the culture (a bit like Rome with Greece (and everywhere really)). But I don't know if there are racial slurs and things with them. It's something to look into and keep an eye out for I guess.

Mongol is an insult tho in an awful lot of places tho.

>>8123312
>It's not my fault I'm dirty and fat
>"I'm a black person"

LMAO

>>8122594
>Many of those novels were written at a time when non-white (non-European (non-British/American)) inferiority was simply assumed, and it reflects in the work
Yeah, all those irishniggers never got a break in canon. It's almost as hard as being Egyptian Greek.

>>8122720
>this nigger believes there's racism in the west
so much irony in so few words

>>8123316
That's not what I said and it has nothing to do with OP's question. Keep up. I wasn't replying to OP. I was replying to the guy who replied to me.
>He can't into the evolution of a conversation.
Just shut up if you don't know how to read up on what's being talked about before trying to enter the conversation yourself.

>>8123325
>pic related

>>8123330
24/m/NC

>>8123339
I used to think the same thing.My mom is on meds that make her fat and I used to think "Nah, you're just lazy and eat poorly." But then i went from being able to wear the same pants I had in freshman year of high school to growing out of them and gaining 50 lbs in a 3 month span after being put on an Atarax and Zoloft despite my diet and activity getting much better because at first I though it was just an adult's metabolism kicking in. Now I know that medication weight gain is serious.

Btw it's totally my fault that I'm dirty. I was playing in the dirt on the land I own. That makes a man dirty.

>>8123335
I'm going to thus assume for the most part imperialist nations tend to be racist and/or generally bigoted towards other civilizations. Thus my point still stands that anti-black racism in the west only really ramped up a few hundred years ago, coinciding with the Atlantic Slave Trade. OP still has about 2000 years of Western canon to get through before that point, although he will likely find parallels when confront with Greek or Roman racism.

It must be a hard pill to swallow to accept that your ancestors achieved virtually nothing of cultural significance whilst Westerners built the world as we know it today.


From there you have four options:

1) Accept the inferiority of your race's cultural contributions to the world, and become a good little Uncle Tom.

2) Appropriate the successes of other cultures (WE WUZ KANGZ) and/or focus on meaningless trifles you can claim as your own (e.g. peanut butter)

3) Blame de white man for your race's lack of achievements.

4) Proclaim that all cultures are equal, and that you would be perfectly happy to give up Western luxuries and go back to dancing around skulls with your juju sticks.

>>8123360
>Appropriate the successes of other cultures (WE WUZ KANGZ)
Can somebody explain this meme to me?

>>8123352
A self hating nigger is the worse kind.

Also, too much information dude

>>8123362
Retarded black movements claim that they were Egyptians, they were the original Jews, they were the original Mesopotamians, etc.

It's just bullshit, like Serbs claim to be the oldest nation in the world etc. but the poor uneducated masses listen to it and take it seriously, then the whites give them funding to get an education, a doctorate, and a tenure, and they end up literally teaching that shit in universities.

>>8123362

>>8123178
>Free women are dirty incompetent whores and can't be trusted with anything".
Your tutor done fucked up. That's the cycle that has Eimear and Macha, two of the best grills in existence.
It's easier to get a gay reading out of that Tain or that men are stupid incompetents who can't even be trusted to take a free cow home without fucking shit up than to read in that free women are incompetent or whores. It's also very hard to consider most women who sleep around in Irish lit or history whores, especially when Setanta a fucking hobag and a half.

>inb4 but Meabh so free
she's not. the central moral is that envy will fuck your shit up if you're going that route, and Meabh's far more competent than her husband. Nobody thinks Ailil is hot shit when it comes to ruling.

>>8123347
The Irish catch a break by being better writers than the English.

>>8123360
5) Drop any internal identification with race and nationality as its cumbersome bullshit anyways

Use it as a tool but at the end of the day its just meat and words.

>>8123372
not really. all to comics about apes fucking up reading and general human behaviour used be about the irish before america made it more common for people to interpret that as mocking blacks.

>>8122594
>black man
>self-worth

I think that this is where the thread ends.

>>8123367
>then the whites give them funding to get an education, a doctorate, and a tenure, and they end up literally teaching that shit in universities.

Well black slaves practically built America for you. Slaves which you wouldn't have been able to get if Chinese gun powder didn't usher in the creation of guns, which you wouldn't have had access to if the Mongolians didnt help foster trade. Hell you would never have grown out of medieval superstitions if the Arabs didn't preserve the ancient Greek literature.

World history isn't Western history you faggot

>>8123374
This desu

>>8123367
>It's just bullshit, like Serbs claim to be the oldest nation in the world
Ah, so not bullshit at all? ;^)

It may be misplaced for some people, but your side (who believe it to be legitimate) have to do the whole "b-but most of Africa i-isn't even b-black!", and it's an effect of "black" being a homogenous group in much of the west. It's no more embarrassing to me as an American claiming Irish or Italian nationality because their grandmother once saw a foreigner. And you would call some Egyptians black probably, beta Israel is black and I wouldn't be that surprised if it turned out had a better claim to Jewish lineage than the other lot. And there have been many powerful and successful kings elsewhere in Africa.

All in all less embarrassing than a protestant posting Deus Vult and believing the crusades were all about fighting Islam.

>>8123383
>Well black slaves practically built America for you.

Anything of merit after this ignorance will not be read today!

>>8123383
I'm not American, retard. Btw, might want to read a book before spouting bullshit.

>>8123397
>Ah, so not bullshit at all? ;^)
REEEEEEEE

>Deus Vult
What's that all about, in 2016 I mean, I know what's it about historically. I've only seen Aurini of all people use it after he converted to Christianity.

>>8123375
True. There are some right shitters in there. But we still had Jonathan Swift and Wilde and so on. I'm not going to see a monkey comic strip reading the western Canon.

Pic related, natural born Irish man. (Apparently he didn't like to be called Irish but I still like the irony).

>>8123413
It's this whole "race war" thing because the media have frightened them with terrorism news and Isis. So they romanticise the crusades without realising most of them would have been stuck like pigs for being protestant heretics.

>>8122594
I'm from Algeria, a Kabyle, and my people has never ever produced anything of valu in terms of literature and philoaophy, and I don't feel diminished. You're just an insecure faggot. Just accept that white people are superior intellectually and that your people are better at other stuff.

>>8123366
I don't hate myself. I AM. I am not more than one person and other people are not me.

>>8123433
>Protestantism
>during the Crusades

>>8122777

Whoever made this map is a moron. There's missing shades in the legend.

>>8123433
I think he actually converted to Catholicism. So it's just a "fellow right thinking people, we must stand strong against the cultural/religious invasion blah blah" thing? I somehow thought it morphed into a masonic thing for some reason.

>>8123374
Easy for you.

Why would I, as an Englishman and inheritor of Earth's greatest civilisation, want to lose my national identity?

>>8123436
Here, here. The collective consciousness of demographies that's inherent in a lot of third wave feminism is an extension of self worship, Barthes' pose of Identification where we come to see our selves in social and cultural features because we wouldn't really be bothered to think about them if we didn't.

>>8123471
>Earths greatest civilization
>shitty island being steadily invaded by Muslims

inb4 we wuz

>>8123471
You've inherited the shiniest turd in the cesspit? Congratulations on that!

>>8123471
Ain't no party like a Britfag party, where you from?

>>8123473
>Here, here
pleb
>English
>civilisation
low quality bait

>>8123482
>>8123479
Amerifags living is cultural wasteland be cry

>>8123483
East London, unfortunately.

>>8123479
WE WAZ SAXONS AND SHIT M8

>>8123486
At least I'm not gayyyyyyyyy

OP you need to let it go.

I don't mean you should just give up your identity, or give up fighting for equality or anything, but when you're reading you need to let all that shit go. If you get hung up on an author being racist (or sexist, or against your religion, etc.), you're going to end up getting offended at everything, posting on tumblr, and generally being a terrible person. You need to accept that while these authors were pretty racist, they still had some great things to say. You can agree with an author on one thing, while disagreeing with them on another. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.

In short: Stop seeing the world in black and white (PUN INTENDED). You can enjoy a writer while still accepting the fact that they were racist.

>>8123489
I say represent no matter. East London has the best mosques!

>>8123415
>Nelson
>Irishman

The fuck are you smoking

>>8123471

Because you had nothing to do with it, and your honour by association is transparent and lame.

>>8123511
atomised scum
i pity you

>>8122594
Most works don't even have black people in them. It wasn't out of a sense of exclusion, they were just describing their way of life. If you really care about reading stuff written by blacks there are African legends and some American works. Having an attitude of works that don't include or address blacks being flawed or irrelevant will not help you.

>>8123502
What if they were gay doe, I mean 4 real a total batti man?

>>8123515

Spooked as fuck.

>>8123515
Taking pride in your nation, and thee achievements of Her sons and daughters is unearned and stupid.

btw apologise for the evils of the Empire, you still have blame there

>>8123511
What if my great Granddad's best friend was PM?

>>8123415
You're missing what I'm saying. Even when we had Swift, there were English people who read A Modest Proposal as not satire.
You might see a monkey comic strip reading the canon because Aldous Huxley's granddad was fedora as fuck. He wanted to prove that Irish people were a bit more ape descended and very like black people, and very unlike AngloSaxon people. So, there's a lot of comics around Fenianism being a monkey in a politician suit, and the whole thing becoming a big talking point in the air when all the writers of London are hanging out in the Cafe Royal is why there's even a group to get away from the politics in the scene.

Most Aldous Huxley's uncles and cousins are relatives of Darwin and scientists who wrote on genetics because it was the family business, though they all have different views on race and how genetics and race work and could or should be used

A lot of lit revolves around that shit because Irish people and English people though they were racially different enough the other side were practically unfeeling. Wilde does it in his letters, though he's not as into trying to convert people for the Irish state as his mom, when he says he has a Celtic temperament in his blood which makes him so sad and so much more refined than Bosie's Anglo bullshit which makes him too dumb to learn French or get his bad French corrected. It's not just a one way thing.

But yeah, if you have to pick which one's the more convincing racist on racial supremacy, the Irish authors have it with a bonus prize for mindmeltingly sweet prose and literary skill. I think you're missing out though not taking into account how many different reasons over the years from both sides we came up with to pretend we're different races, when most people can't tell us apart. You've to be a reasonably good story teller at least to convince people of that from either side.

>>8122594
You would have to learn how to read first, nigger hahaha

>>8123523
>i am
ultimate spook

>>8123511
I didn't create it, but I inherited it and it is my duty to honour and preserve it.

Society is a social contract between the living, the dead, and those yet unborn.

>>8123219
Yeah you're an idiot, this is what happens when the Irish get an education people, they go rouge and then they go nuclear.

Ireland = Baltic Palace v2

>>8123506
Ffs this guy, Wellington

>>8123530
i understand that as your land lacks cohesion you wish to foist your hypercapitalist lack of society on other lands
that's your right, of course you would do that, it increases your power
it is our right to reject it

>>8123530
Nah empire was tight.

>>8123551
Learn how to use a semicolon.

>>8123553
That's more like it. Wellington was a drunkard and abusive and neglectful towards his wife and child, as befitting the worst of his race. Nelson was a true Norfolk hero and a rugger lad.

>>8123284
The problem isn't blacks per se it's poverty and a low class culture. Trailer trash, cholos, chavs, and the like all have similar tendencies.

Black people ridicule others for going "white" but the closest thing to that "white" is just middle class. Every group gives up it's culture to join the middle class.

>>8123566
>Norfolk
m8, if you're trying to pretend the Irish are worse than England, don't rely on Norfolk or Suffolk. Try to trade those to the Irish.

>>8123567
per se but practically speaking it back people.

>>8122679
this post is still underrated

cleanse yourselves from your narrow-minded 'murrican neoliberal ideology which only describes culture in terms of easily-brandable and easily-marketable high concepts, 'murrifats. Yes, racism as an anthropological phenomenon had been around for a while throughout Western civilisation, but Anglo-Saxon PC-veiled racism® wasn't. That was the point of his post, I believe.

It's uncanny how well you faggots are displaying what you've been missing out on by (the majority of murricans) having decided not to give learning foreign languages a shot. (Mexican Spanish doesn't count)

>>8123565
Learn how to detect bate; I think you may have no idea of the importance of Baltic Sea V2.

>>8123594
DESU I watched a good lecture by Akala on this tuther day and he mentioned a book written by a guy in the hay-day of Timbuktu, apparently it documents what average life was at that time, probably really interesting.

>>8123610
*bait. Please, anon, I have compulsions. I cannot correct your line on Baltic Sea V2 because it is perfectly in keeping with being on a Laotian theatre puppet design board.

>>8123544
>So, there's a lot of comics around Fenianism being a monkey in a politician suit, and the whole thing becoming a big talking point in the air when all the writers of London are hanging out in the Cafe Royal is why there's even a group to get away from the politics in the scene.
I was going to say about fenianism and I imagine there's some similar stuff on Canadian papism. The potato famine is also a sore point to me.

>I think you're missing out though not taking into account how many different reasons over the years from both sides we came up with to pretend we're different races, when most people can't tell us apart.
I'd be careful going down that road. There are definite cultural differences. I know opinions on this differ depending on where you are in Ireland mostly. And most Europeans look the same on the whole. Imo the Irish mentality is almost excessively cosmopolitan so there's a tendency to want to feel at home everywhere and see others as similar to yourself. Tho most don't really realise it.

There's also been a definite anglo-isation going on too. According to my aunts (who all married English) my grandparents now were all pro British and someone said that my grandad joined the British Army. And they would have been disowned if either had been alive to hear that bullshit.

There's recently even been a few BBC history docs heavily claiming that the Celtic identity in Ireland is a 19th century made up fad, but then the BBC does put out some shite in general.

>>8123624
And but do you really have compulsions; I wonder ? Fagnon too scared to come back on Baltic Sea V2 because he's never read any Gautrind....

>>8122594
Read widely and you'll be fine.

Milton: "... a fool will be a fool with the best book, yea or without book;
there is no reason that we should deprive a wise man of any advantage
to his wisdom, while we seek to restrain from a fool, that which being
restrained will be no hindrance to his folly."

Read Junot Diaz, Edwidge Danticat, Nella Larson, Jericho Brown, Danielle Evans. "the canon" was made to keep lit exclusive in academia. Start with contemporary writers of color above and work your way back from what they were inspired by.

>>8123623
You might be thinking of Leo Africanus.
I love their library smuggling mission from ISIS so fucking much
>I'd be careful going down that road. There are definite cultural differences. I know opinions on this differ depending on where you are in Ireland mostly.
You're too careful. We used have race wars between ourselves while we were intermarrying with Normans. Ignoring the racist bits because they're not the modern racism we'd like to have means you miss out on a lot of stories. There's a plethora of reasons given by all the different cultural shifts down through history that say "this time we've really cracked it, races are x and y" from within both Ireland and England. When Caxton is deciding whether he should write in Kentish English or write for the north side of the Thames, he does erase cultural differences but he tells his reasons well, and it's the second part I care about. I think you run the risk of erasing cultural differences of the past in favour of what you perceive as the current ones. I like that it's ever shifting because it gives rise to more and more weird stories about something we're probably never going to work out. You're doing the racial version of what this does with God:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=R66r_XMoDkk
I wanna hear the story about the giant reptilian bird story, and why the heretics think they're wrong. The many different reasons we've come up with for us being the same or different races at different times and for what cultural reasons and how they changed things is fertile soil.

>>8123636
Oh, thank god! you used notation that would be fine in French. You even finished the sentence after the ellipsis. <33

>>8123360

PART1
>It must be a hard pill to swallow to accept that your ancestors achieved virtually nothing of cultural significance whilst Westerners built the world as we know it today.

Dude, listen close cuz i'm about to bust bubbles

1.yup, white people made a lot of cool stuff, internet, blue jeans, all very nice. But what people like you don't seem to understand is that your speaking all of these things as if it has anything to do with you. Anon, if your going to be proud of the things things that people have done who happen to be white, then that means things like white guilt for salvery is still legitamate because even though it had nothing to do with them, the criminals were still white

2.there are two kind of people on Earth
A.The Innovators
B.The Adobters
The innovators are the few people in any given population who create all the nice and convenient goodies and ideas and systems that people enjoy, they are the infamous 1%. The adobters are the people who just take those ideas and and run with it. The humble 99%
You are a cuck who is so enamored with sucking your own dick that you can't open your eyes for one second to see that it was someone elses dick your're sucking. I know what your thinking "well sure but the whites have more innovators than anyone else, so fuck you!" anon, you wish it were that simple.

3.from what i see from history the whites would basicly just streamline themselves to be more efficient at adobting (there is no such thing as a society of geniuses) then they would adobt from other cultures (for instance the method of sailing that that the whites used to get to north america was called tacking, it was devised by the arabs) then they would plunder and bring resources back to motherland while simultaneously trying to take over the new land. (Crude explaination of history but it will do for now) any innovations that they found from the new place would be assimilated into them. There are actulay documents of white american settler's talking about how they found all of this conveniently gardened land and lush greenry in aamerica that was untended to so that they wouldn't have to say it was the native americans who created such impressive work

>>8123674
No he = didn't?

>>8123360
Part2
4.There were black edgyptians, there were white egyptians, there were brown edgyptians. There are literaly hieroglyphs of muticolored people standing together, chillin

5.you are poud of all the super duper amazing things white people have done yet you ignore all the bad things. Have yet noticed how good white people are at genocide and creating holocausts? At creating division? There were some native americans that were elated to meet white people and the settlers just saw them as easy prey to be overpowered and enslaved and assimilated. (admittedly this repeat of #1)

6.(but back to #3) listen close anon, i know it's hard to wrap your head around, i know it dosn't make sense to you, and i know that you are by default subject to disagree with me if you read up to this point

But there is more to life than technology

Before you dance around with glee, proclaiming "Lol, you actually WANT to live with sticks and stones" just hear me out.

White people went out with there "superiority" and what did they do? They didn't enact world peace, they didn't sail to the ends of the earth on a quest for freedom and truth, happy to let the inferior yet endearing races tag along for the Lolz. They fucked shit up on a nation level while creating people like you who think "muh skin, by default, makes me better even though i have literally contributed nothing to society that has any lasting meaning" We are all standing on the shoulders of the people befor us. If is solar flare form the sun created an EMP that hit the earth and knocked out all technology (it has has happened before and will happen again) all the "superior whites" along with every other person dominated by tech will revert back to gangs and barbarianism to survive.

Mean while any tribal people wont care because they are self sufficient.

Everyone, eveywere will have there own problems. And if there arn't any, don't worry humanity will be happy to make some (Femimsim,Eugenics,OCD,anxiety,deppresion,Adhd,Stalin,)

>>8123683
>wanting me to correct the shitposting
kekek 4chan a best

>>8123360
Part3
7.>once apon a time blacks were 3/5 human
>apparently thats still enough human for slave owners to rape on a consistent basis when their wives didn't put out.

8.>blacks are inferior
>can't create america without them

9. The "White Genocide" epidemic = multiculturalism

10.>christopher Columbus "found" america
>a place that was filled with people who have been living there before chris even existed as sperm in his dads balls
>Then calls them indians because he thinks he is in india

My verdict= If a time machine is ever invented, I would be delighted to go back in time and shake the hand of of the people who created the tech i use and the 1st people who adobted it and thus spread it out, no matter the race. As for adobters like you who are attaching yourself to things that had nothing to do with you, (seriously, thats like me saying all black people are Ubermensch because most sports are dominated by them, or me being braging that i'm rich because my grandfather is rich)
If you think anyone owes you or your ancestors anything, go fuck yourself.

>>8123676

>. (
> american
> settler's
> your're
> B.The Adobters

Part 2! Now With Grammar!

>>8123692
PLEASE STOP SAYING ADOBPTERS

>>8123688
And but; was = me all along?

>>8123687
Nah mate, they just painted everyone dun for some religious reason. They were Black ethnically, Jesus if you're gonna WE WUZ KANGS at least get your key KANG facts right.

>>8123550
>social contract
A social contract isn't about inherited wills and goodies, it's about giving up some of your freedom so that what ever sovereignty you are a part of can protect and rule over you better.

Twisting words to better fit your purpose? Can't say i'm suprised.

>>8123724
perfectly suited to the shitposting idiom/10

>>8123708
>makes fun of grammar
>dosn't make fun of actual argument
>I wonder why

Nice try wordfag

>>8123717
Please stop talking about "muh ancestors made good stuff so i am best"

>>8123692
I don't see how you can claim that America could only have been great by using slave labor. Without slaves, you would just have whites doing the work instead. I'd say America succeeded in spite of slavery, not because of it.

>>8123730
>they just painted everyone dun for some religious reason

But by that logic how do we know if they were whites who painted other colors for some reason, or black who painted other colors for some reason, or muticolored?

Nice job, you created a paradox wormhole logic loop doop.

Just read the books. Stop trying to "use" them for some purpose. This is such a modern notion and it's disgusting.

>>8123764
Yeah, i could have worded that better.

I guess i was going for something like, "If your so great why didn't you just make the american nation yourself"

>>8123204
>western civilization sucks
ok, stop using computers, the Internet, and the English language ASAP then

thanks in advance

Here's a helpful dank meme

>>8122594
You can't always read a book without coming across something uncomfortable. I've read Naked Lunch just to train myself in that very purpose. Just because I'm a Vietnamese immigrant doesn't mean I should cringe and sob everytime the Vietnam War is brought up. I shouldn't, I wasn't there for the war - I was born into a time of peace and economical flourish. You shouldn't feel bad for some racism here and there in Western canon lit.

I mean, the first time I cried about racism was when a man pulled his eyes up with his fingers at me because we almost hit each other with our cars on a neighborhood street.

>>8123879
ching chong nip nong

>>8122594
just read the books you self-rightous nigger

>without damaging his identity and sense of self-worth

What's this identity that you're afraid is going to be damaged by reading the Western Canon? The books shouldn't make you feel worthless either. I don't understand this.

>>8123914
Please leave

>>8123929
I wish I could