/lit/ - Literature

>There are people out there that unironically think that the world of Ice and Fire is an example of deep worldbuilding

First for Paul Atreides Muad'Dib, emperor of the universal Imperium, lord of Arrakis and the spice Melange, leader of the Fremen

>>8086378
May Shai-hulud devour your soul.

>>8086379

>stabbed by a random no-name priest of his own self-worshipping religion after being blinded, fading into irrelevancy and going mental

Truly the Ubermensch.

hey bros, im lacking in dark fantasy stuff, care to recommend me some good shit?

Be honest, L. Ron Hubbard's "Mission Earth" decalogy is a pretty good read, isn't it?

>>8086414

define dark fantasy.

>>8086418
berserk pretty much defines the term for me, but i don't really like manganime that much hence me being here instead of in /a/

>>8086418
fantasy with black people

>>8086414
Bakker's Prince of Nothing series.

>>8086425
this guy knows exactly what i need

>>8086423

If you like Berserk then the Witcher books are your cup of tea, it doesn't get any more Berserk than that.

>>8086414
Malazan. First book is confusing and not that dark, but you'll be hooked by the time you're halfway through the second (the second book was written almost 10 years after the first, so his writing improves dramatically).

>>8086414

The Broken Sword, by Poul Anderson.

Viking fantasy literally set in the dark ages, with Elves and troll fighting for control of faerie britain.

>>8086435
Hmm, will really consider checking that out.
>>8086437
>>8086436
>>8086429
will look into it

Why is fantasy so sexist, racist, colonialist and totally gross?

>>8086446
because you're not reading the right fantasy works

Has anyone used this site for used books?

You can get used books for as cheap as £0.70p.

Has anyone used this site for used books?
You can get used books for as cheap as £0.70p.

http://www.alibris.co.uk/

Anyone wanna share chapter one of Peace Talks by Jim Butcher pretty please. I don't want to give that greedy jew my shekels.

>>8086475
Can't you go to libgen?

>>8086443
I would echo the recommendation for Prince of Nothing, although there's a good bit of discussion about philosophy and the world's magic system that a dumb prole like me had to re-read a few times to understand. Really interesting world in my opinion.

I actually stopped reading the second book of Malazan because it got a little heavy for me. It's definitely a strong series of books, I just have to be in a certain mind-set to stomach chapters and chapters of horrible shit happening and I was not at the time. I'll pick it back up eventually.

Witcher short stories are really good. The Last Wish is my favorite collection of them.

If you want something with very little substance and lots of action, try The Blade Itself and the First Law trilogy. I feel like I am violating some rule of this thread by suggesting it, but they're super easy reads and lots of fun.

>>8086481
I don't know what that is. Jim Butcher shared it six days ago via cuckstarter for a card game based on the book. You had to donate to read it.

Are they worth it?

>>8086506
Actually it's the action that i bore in fantasy, im more in for the heavy world-building stuff, logic and maybe add in a lil bit of a political situation going on. I dunno if im makin sense or

>>8086517
I mean stuff like in Final Fantasy XII and Vagrant Story was my shit, although those are videogames.

>>8086517
Read Lord of the Rings then.

>>8086523
but i loathe epic/high fantasy

>>8086524
Doesn't matter.

>>8086515

I asked GRRM on his blog and he said the books are terrific. Make of that what you will.

>>8086517
Prince of Nothing for sure then. Possibly Malazan, I've not read enough of the series to give you a verdict on it. First Law has some political machinations and such, my favorite character is a crippled, disfigured noble who works as a torturer after being captured and tortured himself, but the world-building stuff is a lot thinner than PoN.

>>8086517
>heavy world-building stuff, logic and maybe add in a lil bit of a political situation going on.

Wheel Of Time. It has literally nothing except the things you listed for eleven thousand pages.

>>8086515
I listened to the first one and found it very entertaining. Started the second and it didn't capture my interest for very long.

>>8086532
Ooh you're lucky!

>>8086546

why is that? He replies to literally anyone as long as it's not a game of thrones question.

>>8086554
I never went to his blog. He' so famous nowadays just because of the TV show.

>>8086532
he said that because he is close with the authors

he's shilling

>>8086572
that pretty much the whole world is watching

>>8086540
>It has literally nothing...for eleven thousand pages.

ftfy

>>8086574
This, they're literally his assistants.

>>8086414
Prince of Thorns

>>8086574
>>8086584

As far as I can tell he only edited an anthology in which they had a short story. Hardly "his assistants", but whatever.

I thought the books were good anyway.

>>8086572

Yes but on his blog the show is never discussed and he shitposts 24/7 about football, other books, his movie theater and whatever else that is not game of thrones.

he's there all day, and replies to most of the comments. Not like he has anything better to do.

>>8086594
I see, I would find it annoying too if it's the only thing I'm known for.

>>8086590
is it berserk-like?

>>8086435
Is there anything similar to the witcher, with elves, dwarves, knights, monsters and all that shit but more focused on politics. The politics between the Northern Kingdoms the mages and the empire was by far and away the best thing about the witcher for me.

>>8086611

To be honest I don't know, and if there is then I'm interested in it too.

>>8086611
glad to know im not the only autist who likes the political focus on fantasy works

Any fantasy with a little girl protagonist?

rerequesting

I need some Malazan help.

I can't remember which book - maybe Reaper's Gale - but there was a character thinking back to when the Army was fighting the Mott Irregulars and the Crimson Guard in the Mott Wood. I think the character had the memory of Whiskeyjack seeing a conflagration (or something) and sneering "Cole". He made a point that this sneering man rarely showed emotions.

I just really want to read the part again, but can't find it through Google Books or anything.

>>8086611
Maybe look at the Red Knight series of books. I would not really classify them as literature, they're just fun light reading, but they have a good bit of politicking and also a lot of information about the conduct of war during the high Middle Ages/early renaissance: tactics, armament, troop organization, etc. The world is a very lazy allegory of our own, justified with an apparent tie-in to some sort of multiverse theory, but I didn't mind it. Fun series. Second book is heavier on the intrigue than the first.

Also not a fantasy books but you could look at I, Claudius and Claudius the God (sequel). Highly, highly recommend them. They're told from the point of view of the Emperor Claudius, and span the end of the reign of Augustus to Claudius' own accession to the throne after Caligula is murdered. The sequel picks up after that. Also in the historical fiction category, Pillars of the Earth.

>>8086668
>fun light reading
Oh boy

>>8086675
Is that some sort of meme here? I am new.

>>8086668
Just finished reading the dread wyrm the other day a few things about them annoyed me but it was bretty good, of the 3 the Red knight was my favourite.

Someone mentio ed biopunk in another thread. Funny thing. I've never seen ap biopunk book, that and steampunk

Anything good in those fields?

>>8086414
>>8086436
Seconding.
Malazan is really good if you want a long series with awesome worldbuilding.
And while the first book is confusing and not really "dark" it picks up alot with the second.
The third is where it gets really dark and really good.

Also, although the violence (and the other shit) is never the focus or exists only for the sake of having it, Malazan probably goes beyond everything else in terms of "dark".

>>8086694
I haven't read the third yet, just the first two. I think "bretty good" is an appropriate rating for them.

>>8086705
The Wind-Up Girl

>>8086712
Huh! will most likely try to check it out. Thanks guys.

>>8086414
The Iron Dragon's Daughter.

It's pretty dark and you won't find anything like it.
Very good and very strange.

>>8086753

Seconding this. Swanwick is criminally underrated.

>>8086753
You shill this quite a bit as of late eh.

>>8086611
They're not fantasy, but the The Accursed Kings series is pretty much just about politics and cunning schemes.

>>8086753
>>8086763
Thirding this.

Any good fairytale esque books?

>>8086791
>>8086763
>>8086753
Aye aye cap'n, i'll look more into it, thanks!

>>8086814
>>8086791
>>8086765
>>8086763
>>8086753
Literally all me

>>8086816
Do you think if i knew any dark fantasy books i would've asked in the first place.

>>8086378
>Calls Ice and Fire shallow pleb trash
>Nothing but praise for The First Law

>>8086429

Why do people like it so much? The writing is tedious and while the first book had some decent political intrigue going on, the second one deteriorated to just people obsessing over Kellhus all the time. Even the gay, rape and incest in it weren't very good.

I've read a few Terry Pratchett books for fun these last two weeks and I think he's quite nice.

Favorites, Anons?

>>8086850
I think the magic system and villains are awesome. Kellhus sucks, I hope he dies or fails in the latter series of books.

>>8086836

The first law has Glokta

GoT has Peter Dinkmeme

>>8086858
Glokta is literally a poor man's Tyrion

>>8086862
Nigga.

I know I'll sound retarded, but I really like Mass Effect and how they went out of their way to explain the science behind everything they have including psychic powers, and I'm looking for a novel or series of novels, sci fi of course, that do this same thing. I'd also like if it had psychics as a prevalent part of the story because I'm slightly autistic.
Anybody got any reccs?

Any stories set worlds unrelated to earth, with a comparable technology level, but no magic or impossible sci-fi bullshit?
I've seen this countless times in visual media, but hardly ever in literature.

>>8086933
Book of the New Sun

>>8086862
GoT is a mediocre work and First Law is a shitty derivative of it.

>>8086940

>no magic
>world unrelated to Earth
>no impossible sci fi bullshit

nigger have you even read BOTNS?

>>8086868
I feel like hard sci-fi and psychic powers are mutually exclusive.

Anyone read Pounded In The Butt By My Hugo Award Nomination, by Chuck Tingle?

Is it any good?

>>8086955
Usually, but all Mass Effect did was add in a fantasy particle that allowed for some for impossible shit. I'm of the party that, if you follow the latest quantum studies, who's to say that can't happen?

>>8086965
I should probably make it clear that I don't believe it will, but fantasy is fantasy.

>>8086950
It's not set on Earth, there is no magic and most of the stuff is at least plausible.
Did you get it?

>>8086940
I've already read it. I've read Long, and Short Sun too. But thank you.

>>8086965
It's a slippery slope and probably a shitty label for a genre. Is Jurassic Park hard sci-fi? Because I am pretty sure you can't get usable DNA from grinding up dinosaur bones. Does the label encompass books that make a scientific leap but are otherwise fairly realistic, or can they only contain elements that we know are possible now?

>>8086955
Well not really though (not that guy) I've sort of thought about this for a possible project of my own. You expend energy of your own through heat, mechanical motion and manipulation of objects, even when you expel your breath. So imagine a sense or simply passive exertion, if you will, that we don't quite know about, and populations unconsciously selecting sexually for an ability to sense that over hundreds of generations. The ability to sense this would give a very small benefit, and be very weak at first, but as more and more people have it, it grows.

Then, instead of only being able to passively detect this "thing" coming from a brain, you can move energy through space, seemingly without an impetus but actually driven by these brain waves (remember, in reality our brains create very weak waves).

Now this ain't no psychic bullshit (though I admit freely that it is pseudoscience), so to even manipulate a small amount of energy around you using this brainpower requires an enormous expenditure of energy, probably following the inverse square law. So you'd have to eat a whole fucking lot.

And that's where I'm at now. I've thought of having people end up being able to absorb energy from their surroundings too, to be stored in their bodies or objects and used later by the brain, but that idea sounds like shit to me.

>>8086984
>grinding up dinosaur bones
Confirmed for never having watched the goddamn movie, let alone read the book.

>>8086976
They are set on Earth.

>>8086994
I read that book about 20 years ago and there is a reference to grinding up bones in it, I just checked. I thought the Amber extraction was only in the movies, but apparently not.

>>8086996
They are not. Wolfe even confirmed this.

>>8086431
Carnivores of Light and Darkness.

>>8087012
Link it, I can't find it.

>>8086611
That's what Vox Day writes when he does fiction. I've never read him, but he used to be high up in SFWA so there's a chance he's not a hack.

>>8087018
i was being sarcastic my dude

>>8086657
I can only think of the His Dark Materials series and the So You Want To Be A Wizard series, but that might be a bit juvenile for you.

>>8087042
I don't remember where I've found it, Marc will probably know.

Could Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser together take down Conan?

Could either of them take him on solo?

>>8087124
>comparing power levels
inb4 shitstorm
Yes, either of them would have a fair chance against him, and the two of them would wreck him.

>>8087124
I venture that ur mum could take all three of them at once m8

>>8086854
Very partial to Thief of Time, but Susan Sto Helit is best waifu.

>>8086868
Literally all New Wave SF. Psi used to be very popular.

>>8086933
I'm working on it.

>>8087045
Never heard of Vox Day before, but went to check some reviews on goodreads and there is just a shit load of people giving him 1 stars without even reading his books.

>>8087151
Look at his wikipedia page and you will see why.

>>8087166

Man commies really hate this dude

>>8086987
Anne McCaffrey's Pegasus series.

>>8087064
It's what you need, though.

>>8086854
Guards, Guards! and Hogfather. The SF series he did with Baxter is good too.

>>8087194
>It's what you need, though.
can't fully deny that

>>8084358
Redwall is good if you are eleven years old and enjoy your characters either GOOD or EVIL.

>>8087333
No book has ever made me as hungry. I still remember the food from those books and it's probably been close to 20 years since I read one.

>>8087333

but the mice are cute, right?

>>8087333
Ferret, weasel, rat, or stoat detected.

>>8087379
Yes and the worldbuilding is great from what I remember. But the characterisation is pretty shit.

>>8087389

good enough for me

>>8087387
>not being a Marlfox

>>8087333
If you are incapable of ever again indulging your inner 11 year old, you have my pity.

>>8087420
With that said

>>8087427
Heh, I knew that was coming.

>>8087427
>everyday till you like it.webm
You know Stockholm syndrome is a lie, right? If you rape someone everyday, they don't suddenly start to fiend for your dicking. It's all fantasy, just like you thinking that posting this everyday will make people like it.

Might as well post a good list.

Can someone tell me when /lit/ decided First Law is shit tier?

I genuinely enjoyed it for what it was, had some great characters in it and stand out scenes (The duel between Fear and Logen stands out for me).

In before:
>go read BOTNS you pleb

>>8087420

Im seriously thinking about ripping off Mouse Guard and possibly Redwall (after I read the books) and write something with cute medieval mice, probably aimed at children too

I have no idea why I like the concept so much, it just gives me this vibe of adventure and childlike wonder mixed that would mix well with action without being edgy

>>8087460
Redwall was my shit in Jr. High, the world-building is impressively congruent between books except the first(he didn't think he'd make it into a series at the time)

>>8087444
Stockholm Syndrome exists; it's just where they start to identify with the attacker for their sanity. As soon as they're away from them for even a little while, all the loathing and issues and shit start flooding to the surface.

>>8087460

> it just gives me this vibe of adventure and childlike wonder that would mix well with action without being edgy

okay, I shouldnt have written that given that I just remembered some of the more fucked up things that happen in Mouse Guard

lets just leave it at the potential, instead of the execution

MG is still great though

>>8087427
>>8087444
Better version

>>8087479
>some of the fucked up things that happen in Mouse Guard
Is it darker than Watership Down?

>>8087479
>I just remembered some of the more fucked up things that happen in Mouse Guard

I was surprised that I enjoyed Redwall, given the scars I bear from the Watership Down movie.

>>8087502
Read the book. The book is amazing.

>>8087484
>meme books
>better anything

>>8087484
Sarantine mosaic was top notch.

Styliane Daleina did nothing wrong.

>>8087507
I'm afraid to T.T

>>8087501
>>8087502

Just googled it and no, nothing on the level of those screenshots, you get mice eten by snakes, by crabs, one of the characters falls over a huge pit of mice bones, that kind of stuff, but its not particularly bloody

>>8087507
Amen

>>8086658
Im pretty sure its Spinnock talking about Cowl and its in Toll The Hounds. Page 93 in the MMP version.

>>8087452
I am new here so idk, but the level of pretension on this board is shocking. I mean some of it is just shitposting, but jesus I wonder how some of these people even live. Literally an entire board full of Ignatius J. Reillys

>>8087562
You might feel more welcome at r/books or r/fantasy.

>>8087578

>>8087460
I do wonder if a sword that tiny would be viable against other tiny swords and armor

>>8086415
It's terrible. L. Ron Hubbard is interesting because he's basically a hack "white noise" Golden Age writer whose works have survived into the present because of Scientology. Although not interesting in the sense that you should read any of his books.

>>8087522
It's less grim than ASOIAF.

Post all your GRI approved lists.

>>8087855
>someone took time out of their day to make that
How do you even get words to curl like that?

>>8086933
the traitor baru cormorant is set in a world that is not earth, has no magic, but the tech level is late medieval, but with primitive rocketry.
It is good.

>>8086590
>>8086605
THIS BOOK IS ABSOLUTE SHIT. It's like main character tries too hard to be fucking edgy and brooding all of the time. It gave me fucking cancer. Boring as hell. Don't suffer through it like I did.

>>8087756
I've not read ASOIAF for that very reason (being a measure for grimness). Additionally, I find more pathos in fuzzy bunnies.

>>8087950

Is it better or worse than Lightbringer?

>>8087969
You won't regret reading it. Seriously go pick it up.

what is a good fantasy novel/series for chilluns? i want to get something for my nephew, something that is not the capeshit he already reads. he's 8 years old.

I just had a nightmare about a o Lovecraft story I read years ago

>>8088001
In my opinion, it's worse. Lightbringer was bretty gud for young teenage-Anon years ago, but I still enjoyed it more then this shit. I picked it up because the little sticker said it was on par with George Martin and BOY was that a overstatement.

>>8088036

The Night Angel Trilogy

>>8088036
I can't exactly recall what I was reading when I was 8. Maybe The Book of Three or The Golden Compass? Those might be better for like 10-11 y/o but idk. I tried googling, but the initial results were all trash I would never buy my own kid. Could also go with some Roald Dahl.

>>8087137
Good luck to you. That sort of setting requires A LOT more imagination than the well worn ye olde fantasy setting or standard post cyberpocalypse Sci-Fi setting.

>>8088036
Harry Potter.
The Hobbit
The Amulet of Samarkand
The Graveyard Book
Graceling

>>8088036
How to train your dragon

Im not joking. A massive dragon explodes at the end of the first book in a gory blaze

>>8088036
The Enchanted Forest Chronicles by Patricia C. Wrede

>>8088106
The Pit Dragon Chronicles by Jane Yolen

>>8086364
Is this any good? I haven't played STALKER that much, the books completely different right? Please tell me it's different...

>>8088110
Archer's Goon by Diana Wynne Jones

>>8088132
Dark Lord of Derkholm by Diana Wynne Jones

>>8088036
REDWALL
E
D
W
A
L
L

>>8088036
Deltora Quest was my jam at that age and like >>8088079 said, you can't go wrong with Roald Dahl or the Golden Compass series

How big are the characters in Redwall? I always imagined badgers and cats and whatnot being gigantic compared to the smaller animals like mice. But were they all supposed to be of equal stature?

>>8088240
I recall many of the animals being bigger than the mice. I don't think the dichotomy was quite like real life though.

Out of the books I've read:

Wheel of Time (complete) > LotR (no Hobbit or Silmarillion) > ASOIAF (whats out so far) > Sword of Truth (1-3, didn't finish 4)

What's the recommendation for my next read?
Besides Hobbit and Silmarillion, and from what I've gathered even starting book 4 of SoT was too far.

So I'm having some trouble retroactively understanding why the jihad was unavoidable in Dune. As I understand it the great and minor houses don't pay tax to the emperor, but add to the value of CHOAM and all its shares (including the emperor's, who has a majority) by facilitating trade in the universe. So why does the jihad happen? Why doesn't Paul just tell the Fremen not to jihad? Or the Guild not to transport any jihadists? Would a Fremen fanatic have assassinated him, making him into a martyr and forcing the Guild to transport them since the Fremen control the spice?

>>8088268
Pick a book you think you'll like from the Selected ones in the OP.

>>8088086
It's been very tough so far, but rewarding.

>>8088274
>fremen
>not jihad

>>8088240
IIRC at the beginning of redwall Cluny's horde rides into town all towed by one horse

so real-life size?

Do you know any good fantasy where the main character is a trickster? I've read Bakker, though Khellus isn't quite what I'm looking for.

John Constantine from the Hellblazer comics is exactly the kind of character I'm thinking of.

Something a bit more serious/heavier than Dresden Files would be nice.

>>8088437
you don't need genre fiction, read baudelino

Rereading the Bartimaeus series and holy shit is it god-tier

>>8088435
A lot of the first book has human-sized artifacts, but Jacques toned that down a lot for the next books.

>>8088129
The book is really more in the vein of the movie. Far more "this stuff sure is weird" than the "yeee bylat" *burns corpse in trash can* of the games.

Also I got the "official" STALKER novel "Southern Comfort" as a prank-gift a while back. It was pretty bad. For some reason that's not explained Afghanistan is now The Zone, there are irradiated Taliban, for some reason the Ukrainian/Russian government is doing secret stuff, the main character teams up with a tribe of feral USMC grunts, and of course, a Russian character is racist and murders the only black character. (The black character is named Ghost. Because he's black.)

>>8088562
Is the concept of calling blacks ghosts a spook?

>>8087950
What, you couldn't tell from the description?
>Before the thorns taught me their sharp lessons and bled weakness from me I had but one brother, and I loved him well. But those days are gone and what is left of them lies in my mother's tomb. Now I have many brothers, quick with knife and sword, and as evil as you please. We ride this broken empire and loot its corpse. They say these are violent times, the end of days when the dead roam and monsters haunt the night. All that's true enough, but there's something worse out there, in the dark. Much worse.

THE THORNS!
EVIL!
THERE'S SOMETHING WORSE IN THE DARK!

Anyone read any good naval fleet sci-fi books? Shit like The Lost Fleet where it's more than just one ship saving the universe?

>>8086515
I hated the main character, thought he was an idiot who had no foresight. Asshole kicked off two wars but thought that killing was bad.

>>8087333
GOOD and EVIL are best left to Tolkien, I think. You can decry him for it and be right and sound in your opinion, but he draws the hard lines with insight.

>>8088437
The Eyes of the Overworld.

>>8088268

>there are human beings that actually managed to finish the whole wheel of time

Teach me senpai, I'm stuck on book 4 with no will to continue.

>>8086436
Don't fall for the Malazan meme. Fuck all happens the entire series.

>>8088268
You could look into Malazan it is probably the best epic fantasy you will find.

Keep in mind that book one has many problems. It is a rather poor introduction to the world and very confusing because most things remain without proper explanation.
The series greatly picks up with the second book though.

>>8088643
Objectively false. How much of it did you read?

>>8088643
>Fuck all happens the entire series.
Then you have not read it and/or are incapable of understanding the language you read the book in.

>>8086868
You're looking for hard sci-fi.

Read Revelation Space if you want Mass Effect done not-shittily.

>>8088685
There's something pleasant about the city planning and something aggravating about how the blocks all turned out. Surely Sazed could have paved them a grid system.

>>8088687
I like the circular organization with the even amount of quadrants but I can accept that each quadrant isn't exactly the same in topography.

>>8088692
I wonder how deeply he's designed the city, if all the octants have their unique personality, income levels, crime rates, sports teams planned out, and reasons their streets look the way they do.

I wonder if he's trying to design yet another complex modern city for Mistborn 2.

>>8088687
It feels like the canals and circular/angled roads were dropped in beforehand and everything grew up around them. Like they were trying to ape the organic growth of the older walled European cities.

>>8088718
Some of it was probably inspired by the grid system in Utah cities. Now that you mention it, Elendel doesn't seem to have a wall, does it?

>>8088718
Also forgot to note that Paris came to mind because the city got renovated with straight streets in the 1800s after the June Rebellion (aka the part in Les Miserables where everybody dies), because straight, wide streets allow for easy troop movements and clear lines of fire for cannons.

>>8088725
That's rad.

You know, having all those bridges and canals is probably really, really bad for Elendel if they have a Paris Commune. Lots of potential weak points.

>>8086850
Because Bakker describes a massive crusade and does it quite well, including all the lore and tidbits of history of the countries the crusade crosses. I also think his worldbuilding and scheming politics are pretty good. He created a fascinating world IMO.

>>8087502
The Watership Down movie wasn't that bad. Plague Dogs on the other hand... Fuck

>Tfw the fantasy series you want to read doesn't have Graphicaudio productions

:(

>>8086854
Interesting Times
Jingo
Night Watch
Reaper Man

>>8088036
the first shit I read when I was a kid was Riftwar, although those books are best aimed at 13-year-olds

>>8087549
Thank you very much. I had it backwards a bit - thought Anomander was in league with the Crimson Guard and the Mott Irregulars against the Malazans.

>>8088718
>traveling around Paris
>ever

>>8088129
It's very different, and much more emotionally engaging, in doing so also a lot more serious.
Having played the games a lot, and read the book I'd say they share the same locale but not much else.

>>8087484
Blindsight spooked me more than I thought it would.
I also feel there is a SCP story based on his 'vampires' , but I can't remember which one.

>>8089127
..so apparently they were, but it wasn't really a stable alliance.

>>8088437
I can think of a couple off-hand, but I wouldn't really call them dark. I'm not sure I'd call them good either. Definitely entertaining though.

Riyria Chronicles

Lies of Locke Lamora (first book only, don't bother with the rest)

Baudolino is also a good book as that tripfag suggested. It's historical fiction rather than fantasy though. In a similar vein you could try Giacomo Casanova's Story of My Life, highly entertaining.

>>8088449
>Baudolino
>not fantasy
Did I hallucinate that entire India sequence?

Eco is a great writer though.

>>8089416
The rest of the Gentleman Bastards sequence is good too. The second book is a bit weak but the third is on par with the first. The fourth one is coming out this September with an actually multi-book over-arching plot.

>mfw I thought Baudolino was 4chan slang for Baudelaire, like rekterino

I've been here too long.

>>8089449
I read the second and nearly put it down a few times, I agree the third was better. The plots and such are decent, I just despise Locke and Sabetha.

>>8086515
It's formula fiction by SJWs. Avoid.

>>8089484
Oooooh SJWs!!!! Make sure not to buy any book written by SJWs everyone! You might get SJW mind-germs and then you'll turn into one!!

>>8089484

>unironically using the term SJW

opinion discarded.

>>8086515
I've read all of them and have very mixed feelings.
There's a ton of good stuff in there, and I can almost forgive the SJW pandering if the main story didn't get sidetracked so fucking often. The characters are archetypical, which doesn't tend to bother me. But, for a space action/adventure the awesome moments are spread ever so slightly too thin. The main mystery IS actually bing unraveled, but at an excruciatingly slow pace. If the next one doesn't pick up the pace I may quit the series.

>>8089492
>>8089495
Why is it so easy to ruffle your feathers these days, leftists?

>>8088629
Books 1-6 are some of the best fantasy I've read
Book 7 isn't as good but not bad
Books 8-10 are cancer
Book 11 is slightly less cancer
Books 12-14 are coauthored by Sanderson and are much better then 8-11, but not as good as 1-6.

I stuck with it and just powered through, its genre fiction so you don't have to go over every word like its poetry. But books 8-10 really did make me want to stop, or just skip them altogether.

Jordan had the problem of giving too many POVs and side-plots at a time where all you're going to care about is Rand and his shenanigans.

Still though, my favorite fantasy series

>>8089514
I'm not a leftist, just tired of cancer shitting up my book discussion threads. You have a containment board, use it.

>>8089522

same. The left sucks just as hard but at least they don't shitpost here.

>>8089514
this is literally who youre replying to

>>8089478
Sabetha was really hard to like, I started to like her up until the end of book three. From what I gathered, she only seems like a mental bitch because we've only seen Locke's POV; she probably knows something we don't. Lynch tends to withhold info about the bigger picture without caring if it will leave a bad taste.

>>8089527
You do realise you can be a communist ideologue and still hate SJWs, right?

>>8088268
Mistborn or Malazan.
Or Hobb's Assasins thingie
Or BotNS
Or Fevre Dream
Or Iron Dragon's Daugher

>>8089515
I stopped at 8 I think. Agree on 1-6 though. I don't know if I would pick them back up, I've noticed that I have been moving away from 800+ page tomes over the years. I like much shorter stuff now.

>>8089514
trump is winning

>>8089544

Yeah but then why would I follow an ideology from the 1850s which is obviously obsolete and inadequate to address our modern and extremely different world?

>>8089515
>>8089547

I'm the guy who's stuck on book 4, there's already too much padding and filler. No Robert I don't give a fuck about what Egwene is wearing I want to know what happens next.

>>8089542
I think that's plausible. However...

I think her departure in the middle of the night in the last book indicates that she doesn't/didn't know "something." I can't recall if they touched on why she left in the first place, but that's all she seems to do- run from her problems. She's a liar and a coward. I like Jean a lot and the story isn't very fair to him. Also Locke absolutely reeks of self-insert. I guess that's true in a lot of fiction, but it's usually a little less evident. Might as well rename the character Kvothe

>>8089560
Well, it's been too many years since I read them for me to tell you if you're missing out on anything big in 5-6, probably. But if you can't take all the fluff now, probably better to find something else. You want something deep, but maybe with fewer POVs? Does it need to be epic in terms of scale?

>>8089574
desu Jean is the main character

>>8089586

I just wanted to see what the deal was and how he managed to take fourteen books to tell a story. Now I know : it was a story that could have been told in 3 or 4 books if only his editor and his wife hadn't insisted on prolonging it for more cash.

Or maybe it's just that after having read Wolfe and others I no longer feel satisfied by traditional fantasy, it all seems so...been there, done that, you know?

>>8086962
Is there anything he hasn't been pounded in the butt by? Why does he keep writing trash?

>>8089495
Add ben garrison to that pic

>>8089591
I felt that way for a while and didn't read any fantasy books for several months. It's kind of like you've had this really exquisite meal, and everything else seems bland. Eventually you're going to crave a cheeseburger though.

I can't think of much to suggest. I have been reading The Fifth Season and that's pretty interesting though. Has a female protag that I really like, which is rare for a dyed-in-the-wool sexist like me.

>>8089587
He isn't. He's an observer. I base this hypothesis on my own experiences as a pathological escapist. Whenever I self-insert into elaborate fantasies, it's never from the first person. I'm looking at myself through another set of eyes, that's how things are justified/characterized/etc. That is the role Jean fulfills in the book. His true purpose is to validate the author's fantasies (about himself).

>>8089602
>Is there anything he hasn't been pounded in the butt by?
Probably his father, hence him looking to fill that void with anything qnd everything possible.

>>8088708
I doubt it. It's just a city among the most fertile area in the world. I do wonder how different Era 3 will be, what with far far more skyscrapers, more people, influence of airships, urban sprawl, etc. I do expect the 'big city' of Era 3 to look more natural since it's standard human progression, especially if Autonomy is trying to block Sazed from further intervention with his people.

>>8089614
>I have been reading The Fifth Season and that's pretty interesting though
Did you scratch your head at "I saw her penis" or some shit. There were some parts in that book where I was scratching my head nonstop and saying "w-what".

>>8089630
Hey Cosmerefag, didn't see you in months... are you still willing to give me that boipussy?

Anyone got any good recs for series about the beauty of the human spirit and the ultimate triumph of good over evil through sheer willpower and raw determination?

The kinda mindless, optimistic fiction that just lets you escape into the fantasy it weaves for a few hours?

I don't even mind if the setting is grim and many of the victories early on are pyrrhic, just so long as it has a happy ending.

>>8089614
>He isn't. He's an observer. Blabla

What is not getting hyperbole for $600?

>>8089643
Naruto

>>8089643
Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn by Tad Williams. Simply but changing characters, pretty clear line between good and evil, well written to boot.

>>8089645
>heinous serial killer who mutilated and tortured hundreds is entirely forgiven
>traitor and repeated attempted murderer was never even in trouble and marries the girl he twice tried to kill
>main character dies in the sequel

Pretty terrible recommendation for a story with a "happy" ending.

>>8089631
Yeah I did at first, then I realized what was up. I'm guessing you did as well.

>>8089644
It's hard for me to tell when people here are being serious. Maybe include an emoji next time so I know you are kidding.

>>8089643
The MC of Black Sun Rising would fit that.

>>8089653
>Maybe include an emoji next time so I know you are kidding.
i thought desu would have done it

>>8089613

There is a Ben garrison reference in the pic, although I don't even know who that is. I didn't make it.

>>8089643
Lord of the Rings; unironically.

>>8089659
>>8089656
>>8089651
Cheers for the recs!

>>8086414
>>8086517
>dark fantasy
>low action
>logic
>bit of politics
Get into KJ Parker my man.

>>8089643
The Old Kingdom series by Garth Nix.

It's YA, but the lore surrounding necromancy and the fusion of Edwardian England with a medieval-fantasy setting (as in the two reside by eachother, not that they're mixed together) is pretty interesting for the age profile's standards - and it has a very clearly happy ending, with an adventurous and optimistic tone for the most part.

>>8089657
I couldn't remember what word it replaces.

>>8089672
I seriously wish a better author would just plagiarise the shit out of the rules of necromancy and Abhorsen stuff from the Old Kingdom books.

That shit was too cool and original for such a middling series to be the end of it.

>>8089679
The trilogy itself was fairly superb but Nix should have wrote far more in the series other than those handful of short stories.

>>8089679
I'd hardly call it "middling", by YA standards the trilogy is pretty damn good.

>>8089681
Have you read Clariel? It's a distant prequel to the original trilogy that delves more into the lore of the setting.

It came out a few years ago but far as I can tell barely anyone heard about it for some reason. It's also notably less good that the trilogy, but I still enjoyed it.

You're on a crusade to remove plebs with your /sffg/ waifu and these guys slap her on the ass.

What do you do?

>>8089698
Laugh as the God Emperor of Mankind purges them for their insolence

>>8089651
> implying Ineluki wasn't in the right
Good rec, though!

>>8089669
While I've always thought of dark fantasy as more of a horror type of fantasy, which doesn't really fit here, I heartily second any KJP recommendation! Fantastic author.

>>8089698
Go full Gnosis

>>8089698
Pull out muh second inutterals.

>>8089698
Take turns raping her and praising the No-God. Then I join the Consult.

Also isn't this technically a pleb thread?

>>8089688
I'm aware of it but I haven't read it because I'm not too big into prequels (I have the 'tism for chronology in a descending fashion) plus I wasn't too interested in Chlorr.

>>8089698
I don't even know what those are.

>>8089742
That's the leader of the unholy consult from PoN

>>8089750
And his lover.

>>8089721
>implying non dunyain can use second inutterals

>>8089715
>jap natives didn't deserve to get shrekd

Real talk the Dunyain changed the way I look at trees.

>>8089790
Real talk, dunyain are a plague on humanity and need to be exterminated

>>8088268
>WoT better than LotR

y tho.

>>8089863
Moengus and Kayutas are cool as fuck though

>>8089940
>moengus
>Dunyain

He's Cnaur's kid

>>8090003
i meant the family in general

>>8090015
Katuyas is probably the least shitty Dunyain

He still must be removed for the greater good

>>8086591

Wrong on both accounts. Ty Franck worked as a personal assistant for Martin over several years according to various articles online.

And the books are pretty mediocre.

>>8086574

Fucking this.

How does /lit/ introduce information of the world without writing entire paragraphs of information dump?
How do I make it without having a cliche character that is not from around the place and needs a second character explain stuff to him?
How do you worldbuilding?

>>8090186
>How does /lit/ introduce information of the world without writing entire paragraphs of information dump?
>How do I make it without having a cliche character that is not from around the place and needs a second character explain stuff to him?
Dont explain shit and let it fly, while still having the characters be natural to their setting. Trust the reader to figure things out on their own.

Worldbuilding? For me its easy as hell. To the point where I think worldbuilding isnt so important as having a consistent idea or theme running through your story, and the world itself will reflect those themes just as well as your characters will.

Worldbuilding is all just clay that has to be put to a purpose, otherwise its worthless.

>>8090200
I think games like Dark Souls and books like Gene Wolfe's novels are more or less proof that people enjoy figuring things out on there own, so there really is no need to explain anything about the world. Just swooce right in with the characters and their immediate situation.

>>8090217
>Gene Wolfe
Not even close to being among the most popular

And Dark Souls is relatively simple.
There are much less forgiving games and you don't need to think too much. Just get the timing down

pounded in the butt by my hijacked hugo awards URL
http://www.therabidpuppies.com/

>>8090226
He was talking about the lore, anon.

>>8089863
I don't like them either. And I fucking despise Kellhus. The idea that trees war for space was interesting though.

I stopped reading the books after the Judging Eye, which I didn't like. I may try to give it another read.

It seems like there are similarities between the goals of the dunyain and the goals of the Inchoroi. Both deal with sort of breaking out of the natural order of things, at least that's how I interpret it.

>>8090186
>How does /lit/ introduce information of the world without writing entire paragraphs of information dump?
Depends on how you want to go on about it. Sometimes pure exposition from the narrator is alright but it has to be relevant and interesting. Having a fish out of water situation can be helpful if you have a very different setting and then you can introduce the things one at a time when they come up. Or you can just go with it and let the reader puzzle together the pieces.
>How do I make it without having a cliche character that is not from around the place and needs a second character explain stuff to him?
See above. The worst thing you can do is to have characters go "as you well know...", that's terrible.
>How do you worldbuilding?
Depends on what you want to accomplish with it. You can come up with a story and figure out what you need to make it work and then try to make those things make sense in the setting. You could build a rough idea of a setting and then use it to come up with a story. You shouldn't go full Tolkien unless that's something you enjoy just for the sake of it, it's okay to come up with stuff along the way. The amount of worldbuilding that you do also depends on the scope of your story, if you're just going to keep to one village or city or whatever location for almost the whole story then it's pointless to come up with much more than that. Figure out what sort of story you want to tell and then do worldbuilding to serve your needs.

>>8090248
Reads like something written by a crazy person with dyslexia.

>>8090263
>The idea that trees war for space
Like with other trees? That's kind of cool.

Oh, cool SF concepts: The Calculor, from Souls in the Great Machine. Post-apocalyptic Australia, there's a satellite that will fry any electronic circuits it detects, but one kingdom builds a computer with slaves as the circuits. Since a human can do more than an XOR gate, it's not quite as inefficient as that sounds, and there's some neat engineering stuff in how it's designed.

I think in the third book they build a really big one and an AI emerges, I never made it that far though.

>>8090271
>Sometimes pure exposition from the narrator is alright
This. A lot of new authors get trapped by "show, don't tell," and end up thinking they can only show what a movie camera does. Novels aren't films, they don't have to be 100% filmable.

>>8090217
That's only when you include enough information to put things together. It's entirely possible to not explain enough then have plot elements depending on non-implied worldbuilding, like pic related.

>>8090248
>informal group based in blogs and twitter
>hijack
Nobody ever cared who owned gamergate.com.

>>8090345
Thats what I mean, actually leave the breadcrumbs but never break the action at hand to explain something. What you're talking about in that example is really just laziness.

For me personally, I like to think what I write isnt something that really needs an overhead breakdown so long as the reader pays attention. I don't play any tricks, its all there or will be answered at some point.

>>8090380
Actually, I'm not sure it was laziness as much as hiding the breadcrumbs too well. There might have been enough background info to explain everything, but it was so packed with background detail you need to keep a notebook to track it. This shot was onscreen for a few seconds. It might have clues in it. I don't know, Xam'd never got a big enough community to come up with theories because nobody ever know what was going on. At least with Dark Souls you've got relatively hard gameplay to keep you interested while you slowly realize there actually is lore.

>>8090186
>How do I make it without having a cliche character that is not from around the place and needs a second character explain stuff to him?
If you really want to use this device but don't want to write a cliché new guy then just use your imagination. Maybe there's a person with dementia around that needs things explained to them, maybe there's a kid who asks questions, including dumb ones, maybe a character watches tv and there's a documentary on, maybe the viewpoint character is ignorant and doesn't know everything? There's many ways to do it, the only thing limiting you is your creativity.

>>8090358
And it's not like the progressive circlejerk clique didn't hijack the awards to begin with.

>>8090483
It's not that bad of a device to be honest, and it can be relatively transparent if the Man from Mars has other goals besides being naive.

Alternatively you could have technical details go wrong and need to be explained to savvy characters that know how q-pacitors or magic mirrors work but don't know how to fix them, with enough details that readers can fill in the blanks.

>>8090440
Xam'd really did have great artwork.

>>8088725
>>8088728
it also allowed proper 2-laned carriage transportation and for firefighters to extinguish fires much easier. this was the official reason given for all the renovations as far as I remember.

Does Brandon Sanderson have proper females in his books?

>>8090601
Yes, they are quite fastidious and well-mannered.

>>8086868
hands down Revelation space

>>8090263
Kellhus is supposed to be despised imo.

He's been on a downhill likability spiral since he heard the voice of the no god.

>>8086955
>>8088685
>>8090672
only if you take ME1, but in ME2 and and especially ME3 they went the soft sci-fi way and threw much of their lore out (salarian stealth dreadnoughts, switch to ammo-based weapons systems etc).
and even then it's not very similar.
most of the incongruities stem from the switch of lead writers.

>>8090739
that last quote was meant for
>>8090670

>>8090186
>How does /lit/ introduce information of the world without writing entire paragraphs of information dump?

Don't go autistic with genealogies and history and shit. I mean, write that stuff down in your notes so you can reference it occasionally and not contradict yourself, just restrain yourself and trust the reader

>>8090758
>trust the reader

You would not believe how ridiculous theories the readers have made about the world and everything about my books are, naturally it's obvious to me but still...

fluffy fantasy-ish romance p-pls?

>>8090795
Stardust or The Princess Bride

Any fantasy books with little girl villains masquerading as the good protagonist?

>>8090829
Any fantasy books with pedo shitposters as the villain?

>>8090829
why would anyone want to read nonsense like that?

>>8090956
>wants a certain kind of character
>this obviously means he wants to have sex with it

>>8090829
Witches of Karres. Now git.

I've got a fantastic mythology and a bunch of clever characters in my head but writing a novel is out of the question.

What do I do with them?

>>8091409

learn to draw?

>>8091409
Write a bunch of short stories.

>>8091367
Is that actually any good? My local source has it for 25 cents, but I keep passing it up.

Is it bad form to give existing mythical creatures new names if you're trying to write a mythology from scratch?

The one I'm writing has shit like hell hounds, thunder birds, drakes, and so on. I'm giving these creatures new properties and origins to match the themes of the mythos but It feels unoriginal one way and douchey the other

>>8091482
It's not very well-written but it's a lot of fun and a lot of jailbat.

>>8091561
But they're not existing mythical creatures anymore, are they? I think it depends on your naming sense. Give them natural-sounding names that make you think you might have heard of them somewhere and you're set.

>>8091610
I mean they are and they aren't. The similarities are really close but there are only minor thematic tweaks.

for example, hell hounds and bakeneko are pretty much the same, but live together in families of two or three, and should one member leave a family of three, two more will be created on the spot to maintain the family structure

>>8091651
>implying anyone knows mythology well enough to call you on it
>implying you care about the subset of those informed enough to know and autistic enough to care

What is with authors and creating maps of the western portion of the continent?

Everything takes place on the west coast.
LotR, WoT, ASOIAF, Eragon, etc.

Shit, even I drew the west coast for my world.

>>8091696
West is associated with untamed frontiers, east is associated with desert and tundra full of horse people that are probably going to kill and rape you or your descendants someday.

Stupid question, but why doesn't any fantasy features gay/bi characters? Not as main characters, but at least likeable side characters. They usually don't exist or are some randoms and its hinted at that.

>>8091795
Ender from Ender's Game is very obviously gay and he's a main character

>>8091798
How is Ender's Game, I've only read first one and he didn't seem gay to me m8. Idk. What about the rest of the series, worth reading?

>>8091795
Are you retarded? Lots of them do. Lots. It's the new big thing, there are successful authors who will say you are a bigot if none of your characters are gay. I don't read them because I am not a faggot but look up N. K. Jemisin and her recommended authors, you sick freak.

>>8091806
>I don't read them because I am not a faggot

>>8091821
>reading books solely for the identity of their characters
>not faggoty

>>8091802
>I need a character to enthusiastically kiss dudes to know he's gay

>>8091846
>I assume characters are gay based on things that have nothing to do with whether they are sexually attracted to members of the same sex (which is actually what it means to be gay)

>>8091795
Well I tried reading "A Land Fit For Heroes" but I ended up finding all the graphic gay sex to be off putting.

>>8091875
The Picture of Dorian Gray

>>8091795
Do you think GRI is a joke?

>GRI anon got offended
C-congratulations senpai

Question: does GRI mean "gay, and rape, and incest" or "rape that is gay, and incest"?

>>8091951
It means Gay (girls or boys), Rape that's either homosexual or non homosexual and incest which is either homosexual or non homosexual

>>8091951
>>8091959
The prophecy tells that one day some hack will write an incestuous gay rape, uniting the three elements. It'll probably be Breeks.

>>8091919
Never read it. I don't really bother with "literary fiction" because it's typically got it's head up it's own ass.

>>8089652
>main character dies in the sequel
You what my jigga?

NuThread:
>>8092089
>>8092089
>>8092089