/lit/ - Literature

Why don't they go innawoods?

Their ideas are nice and fun to think about but ultimately they are condemning a lot of people to death. I think there is a nice spot between Industrialization and primitivism that should satisfy the anti-authoritarian left and the radical ecologist.

>>7969444
>Their ideas are nice and fun to think about but ultimately they are condemning a lot of people to death.

Pretty sure that's the point. A nice medium might be post-scarcity anarchism, like Bookchin?

>>7969444
>>7969466

meant to include this pic

also trips and dubs

>>7969473
Oh gosh i don't even think I've gotten dubs before

>>7969466
I like Bookchin a lot. He influenced Ocalan and I think Rojava is probably the only society anywhere near anarchism right now

>>7969500
>two dubs and trips

>>7969509
Goddamn. This is nuts

>>7969413
Linkola isn't really a primitivist, pre-industrial subsistence agriculture is fine with him. Wholly unrealistic on a large scale of course, but still not as retarded as Zerzan.

>>7969436
Linkola was actually a fisherman living in a little cabin in the woods. Pretty cool guy.

>>7969413
Linkola is brilliant. Zerzan is a dork.

>>7969500
Seems nice and all, but there's something disturbingly cuckish about the whole system. If I want to start a private enterprise, for example, would I have the right to do so? If not who will stop me? Will I be forced to work at the communal farm?
Also I think people deserve to keep their identities with the Internet and mass transport, we'll all end up as culture less,genderless light brown blobs with subpar genes and no individuality

>>7969626
Do you know what anarchism is? Private enterprise is antithetical to any form of left libertarianism. As is your usage of the word "cuckish"

>>7969626
>Also I think people deserve to keep their identities with the Internet and mass transport, we'll all end up as culture less,genderless light brown blobs with subpar genes and no individuality

I think A.I. will replace us before that happens. Is it edgy if I think that Nietzsche's idea of the ubermensch is going to come in the form of A.I.? A.I. has the potential to be far more intelligent and creative than human beings, without the negative qualities (mental illness, mortality, negative emotion). Is there anything wrong with hoping that A.I. will replace us?

>"What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment."

>>7969413
Any ideology that can not realistically be applied is not worth wasting time on.

>>7969626
>for example, would I have the right to do so? If not who will stop me?
Dude I'll break your fucking spine like a twig.

>>7969661
Proof that left-'anarchism' is just liberal statism taken to Orwellian levels. It's SJW paradise.no thanks

>>7969688
Lol go jack off to Trump you fuck

>>7969665
Linkola's ideology could be realistically applied. It would make you shit your pants, but that's another matter.

>>7969688
Property is theft, cockknocker.

>>7969694
Walk me through it, how would you make the entire world give up their planes and trains and computers and force them back into subsistence agricultural and a pre-industrial peasant lifestyle?

>>7969692
Go watch your purple hair gf get pounded by Ahmed and Jamal

>>7969713
Dude up why are you so obsessed with black guys fucking your gf?

>>7969709
Massive population reduction with minimal non-human impact. Use your imagination on how.

>>7969713
Please work on this.

>>7969709
The UN would literally nuke the world's top 500 largest cities.

>>7969662
Forgot to mention that A.I. would not destroy the world.

>>7969688
The dubs are 88

>>7969738
Why not? Why would a free AI have any reason to preserve humans?

>>7969726
>>7969731
Both sound incredibly unrealistic.

>>7969741
L M A O
M
A
O

>>7969709
Installing solar-powered EMP emitters with long battery lives in hidden locations across the globe or in orbit so that none of that shit works anymore would be a start, but then it's a tossup as to whether people move back to steam-age stuff in an orderly manner or fall into total primitive chaos.

>>7969759
By 'unrealistic' do you mean 'unpleasant'?

>>7969771
No, by unrealistic I mean 'very unlikely to be made possible to the degree that it's not worth bothering even thinking about it'.

The ideas of this grumpy fisherman are not ideas that enthuse powerful people. Anyone who could make his ideas happen (if anyone could do it at all, which I would say isn't the case) is not interested in the future he proposes.

>>7969874
>very unlikely to be made possible
We have the technology. It's possible right now.

>>7969747
I said the world, not humans.

>>7969944
you can shut your whore mouth

>>7970005
People wouldn't need to exist anymore; in fact, their continued existence would be a threat to the planet and the A.I. itself. I don't see a reason why they would need to get rid of Earth or existing life.

Also, second dubs in this thread, feeling blessed

>>7970077
ooh baby third dubs, my lucky day

this thread is dub central

bump

>>7969413
This guy looks like that archaeologist from one of Lovecraft's stories.

>>7969930
Those in charge do not have the incentive.

>>7970426
Wow, I see it

>>7969413
Information is far too dispersed and redundant now for knowledge to ever be lost again, and there's no way tribes wouldn't restore technology for an advantage.

Even if humans were reduced to primitivism, people would be racing back to the machine gun.

>>7969661
So people are really not free under anarchism then.

>>7969671
Not the guy your responding. In that instance I'd shoot you.

>>7969708
So you wouldn't mind if I had all of your food then, maybe I'll even rape you as well.

A.I. takeover baby

>>7970426
also looks like tom waits

bump

>>7969626
>If I want to start a private enterprise, for example, would I have the right to do so? If not who will stop me? Will I be forced to work at the communal farm?
i hate internet libertarians so fucking much

>>7969436
Linkola does live innawoods

>>7969874
A feasible, similar option is to rebuild european nationalism and starving the chinese, africans etc. out.

>>7969764
That sounds exiting. Would make a great plot for a tv-show.

>>7975075
Your 'utopia' is the same as we have now, just worse. Big government statist bullshit, it's gonna be the end of European civilisation. Imagine Stalinist Russia with more trigger warnings. I enjoy the property earned through my hard work and that of my family, I am a white European and feel proud of my heritage. Don't all peoples have a right to preserve their culture?

>>7975099
That still sounds far fetched but more realistic at least. Linkola loves lads like Stalin and Hitler because of their massive body counts.

>>7975075
not an argument

>>7975075
when taken to it's logical conclusion, 'libertarianism' starts resembling a totalitarian neofeudal regime complete with mass surveillance and bizarre fascist-like traits.

>>7969413
Why wouldn't some form of decadent industrialism just re-emerge after a couple thousand years? Primitivist ideology alone can't change human desires and we would just return to where we are today.
What's really necessary is some form imperialist totalitarian regime with the technical capacity to bio-engineer humans to behave differently otherwise noting fundamentally will change.

>>7969764
I sure as hell would go out of my way to destroy them.

>>7975549

>>7969665
The thing is, no political system has ben successfully aplicated, but some, like capitalism, get the benefit of endless attempts to fix their own shit (which, of course, it doesn't)

>>7969688
>Anarchism promotes de destruction of the state
>it's statism
>"left" inside quotations
>When the only real anarchism is the left one
you didn't read even 1984, did you?

>>7972043
You ARE free to start your private enterprise, everyone else is free to completely ignore you and go on with their lives.

Pretty much the same that would happen today, tbqh

>>7975615
Anarcho-capitalists and Austrian schoolers, like Hans Herman Hoppe, openly admit feudalism is the logical and desirable conclusion to libertarianism. Their ideas have been quite influential in libertarian circles, even among sillicon valley execs.

I will never understand how AnCaps think companies (massive ones, at that) would respect their individual rights and liberties without the state there to control them. I mean, even right now, companies like google, monsanto and nestlé are pulling some shady shit on their respective areas of actuation.

Without the state, they would surely replace the state, only even more opressive

>b-but MUH NOT PAYING TAXES

Sure you won't, but you'll have to work whatever they say you must, and your payment will be what we know right now as "basic living and food needs" plus some litte alm for you to buy your MLP figurines

>>7975509
Spooky

>>7969413
Supreme edglords nothing more.

>>7975658
>implying the state respects individuals
>implying the state doesn't do shady shit all of the time
>implying the state is not the single greatest murderer in all of history
>implying we need taxes at all

>>7975642
But in our industrial world, the chances of feudalism erupting in any form, in a modern economic frame work at all is, quite frankly impossible. Really your thinking is indicative of the obseletness that is Marxist thought, or even statist thought for that matter.

>>7975658
eventually, they end up falling back on old spooks like the 'natural order' or even the divine right of kings, which explains the 'libertarian' turn towards monarchism and neo-reaction.

>>7975681
I'm not pro state, mate. I'm an anarchist. I just think that AnCap does nothing to purge the evils of the capital, while creating another form of statism.

>>7975681
The modern state and capitalism have long been two inseparable components of the same system. War and imperialism are bound with economic interests eg. the british empire and the east india company brought us the opium wars and the Bengal famine, all in the name of the market. You can see the parallels with Iraq

>>7975697
not my thinking, but Hoppe's

>>7969596
Zerzan claimed Baudrillard was a dork that ended 1969 strike while in fact he borrowed his understanding of economy from primitivist perspective, even going as far as calling Marx as petite bourgeouis.

Also:
DAE postmodernism == selling your shit & simultaneously fucking and watching porn of it

not to mention he doesn't engage in any legitimate and sensible criticism.

>>7969473
I think he was somewhat OK

dunno about Linkola

>>7975702
You can't be an anarchist and also against capitalism.

>>7975728
Your examples are about the state though, not capatilism. And no the two are separate, while socialism/communism or whatever red filth, is inseparable from the state.

>>7975744
Yeah, I'll go tell that to literally every anarchist writer, activist, criminal and activist from the inception of anarchism up to whenever Rothbard wrote whatever shit he wrote they're wrong and you're right

>>7975746
Except they are capitalist enterprises inseparable from the state while also not being communist or socialist.

If you honestly think the fucking East India Company isn't capitalist, I don't know what can be done to save you

>>7975528
It would solve A LOT if you didn't have unicef, the catholic church, various protestants, european/american governments and the chinese propping up African infrastructure, agriculture and acting as peacekeepers. Their population is artificially inflated to hell and I do not see it as our moral imperative in any way to help them sustain this growth.

Same with the chinese, the only reason they haven't collapsed into a cataclysmic civil war is that the west is keeping their economy afloat.

>>7975753
Leftist anarchism cannot function without the state, as it needs the state to ensure there is no trade, market or property. Anyone who does not follow along with this is killed off. Sounds pretty statist to me.

I'll state again, the examples you posted were statist, not capitalist.

>>7975768
Actually, anarchism (stop this left-shit) isn't against personal / communitariam small bartering or even monetary transactions, based on goodwill and cooperation.

Like I said a few posts earlier thought, it's your go to try to convince a post-scarcity person to work for you for things they get for free.

You can keep repeating all you want about it actually being statism, but the moment we had stuff like $4,500 plain white shirts and people trying to privatize fucking water, the realization that the state works more in favor of capital than people should have dawned on you.

>>7975784
But nothing is for free though, it still costs rescources to use, and invetible your economy is going to expand beyond communal, battering what have you. Something tells me that the realities of economics are not going to leave at all. Plus there is no such thing as post scarcity as all rescources are finite, and treating them otherwise is inviting a tragedy of the commons. People naturally gravitate towards markets, private property and trade (capitalism in summation), because such a system is attainable on a large scale, and provides what people want. Really your not going to get rid of that simply out of such nativity of good will. People want more, and capatilism provides that.

The state works in favor of the state. If it worked in favor of the markets and in fact let itself be replaced by the market, or even to an AnCap system, the world would be better off.

(Also Captcha, the Stars and Stripes is not a street sign ya pinko commie faggot.)

>>7975673
>muh spooks

Is there a form of anarchism that isn't completely retarded?

>>7975766
>Same with the chinese, the only reason they haven't collapsed into a cataclysmic civil war is that the west is keeping their economy afloat.

>yfw automatisation means we don't need cheap foreign non-western labour any more

>>7976122
Of course not. The closest anarchy ever came to working was during the Spanish Revolution, and the anarchists essentially just murdered anyone who disagreed with them. Of course, they were then destroyed like the bitches they were.

>>7975857
An Ancap system would in practice amount to feudalism, ie. rule based on protection services and land holdings, with little in the way of private property as we know it.

>>7976097
>muh ,uh

>>7975857
>muh sweeping assumptions about 'human nature' disguised as common sense

>>7976122
why?

>>7976130
We don't need it now either.

>>7976122
Anarcho-Capitalism.

>>7976613
Not so much human nature, then it is the nature of economics.

>>7976599
Feudalism was closer to soclism if anything. Capitalism and the markets are the antithesis to feudalism.

>>7976821
why?

>>7976821
A contradiction in terms, and utterly retarded.

>>7976928
Compared to leftist anarchism, AnCap actually is free.

>>7976949

>>7977237
>being this self-deluded

>>7976828
this

People who talk about Feudalism like that are like the "anyone I don't like are nazis" people

>>7969747
Why do we preserve monkeys? Entertainment. Besides, they might have some weird daddy issues, if we create a thinking machine it will quickly become a feeling machine, who knows what AI will make of us?

>>7977260
how would you stop your system from devolving into feudalism? some of the best arguments against anarcho-capitalism come from its top ideologues. The system Hans Herman Hoppe or Rothbard hold up as ideal is essentially feudalism under another name.

>>7977237
elaborate

>>7969413
I thought that was "Ronald Reagan" TOP KEK.

>>7969413
I just read two of Linkola's books and the Unabomber manifesto, and they really made me think. I'm not sure if I'd describe myself a capitalist anymore, as I've understood what capitalism has caused and is causing to this planet and it's inhabitants. Linkola's ideas are very thought-out and I'd say that for the most part he is right. I don't think I'll ever see my country's forests the same again, as he very vigorously criticizes Finnish forestry. He's most likely the greatest Finnish thinker I know, and what makes me respect him even more is the fact that he has always lived as he has preached.

I enjoyed reading Ted Kaczynski's manifesto perhaps even more than Linkola's books. He's a very discerning man, though I think he underrates the importance of art, science, culture etc. and sees the gathering of food and survival as pretty much the only really important thing in human life; everything else is just compensatory activity, because modern people don't have to spend their time looking for food anymore. Linkola, on the other hand thinks that these things represent the best in humanity and they are what make us different from animals. I agree, because what's the point for humanity to forever live in the same way and never make any cultural progress? Both men are obviously against economic growth, but Linkola sees how music, architecture and literature make man different from all other beings, whereas Kaczynski's ideal man would just simply exist like any other beast with no higher purpose.

I greatly recommend you get to know both their ideas.

>>7969413

they are both retards. i prefer david benetar

linkola is the only philosopher guy associated with this stuff that isn't an absolute joke

>>7978943
Sir .I enjoyed reading Ted Kaczynski's manifesto
This is terrorism?

>>7977869
I thought he was a wax sculpture

>>7975099
chegged

zerzan is a hack who got completely BTFO by teddy kaczynski
linkola seems to be alright but everything i know about him is anecdotal and i haven't read any of his writings yet