/lit/ - Literature

>>7805102
/lit/ - literature

>“Europe needs to demand of the incoming Muslims that they respect European values,” he says, and, “Europe cannot just open its borders, as some on the left demand out of a feeling of guilt.” Instead, “we” must ensure “that the streams of refugees flow in an orderly fashion,” and set up “reception centres in the countries bordering Syria, but also in Libya.” This, he insists, must be done “with the military.” In other words, Žižek wants to send European troops to Libya, Jordan, Lebanon and other states to imprison refugees there.

>Žižek explicitly defends European capitalism with its millions of unemployed and its dramatic inequality. “I do not want to bad-mouth capitalism in principle,” he says. “The European model” is “threatened by two types of capitalism, both undemocratic” –by the “fundamentalist market radicalism of the American model” and by “Asiatic-authoritarian capitalism, as practiced mainly in China.” But “Europe’s capitalism,” on the other hand, has “something to offer to the world.”

>Racist incitement against refugees, the demonization of the “lower classes,” the closing of borders, the defence of one’s “own” capitalism against its international rivals and a return to militarism—this is the programme of the new right, which Žižek advocates here.

>This is no surprise for the World Socialist Web Site. We have warned for years that the policy of the pseudo left represents the interests of more affluent layers of the middle classes and is directed against the interests of the working class. They have replaced the historical materialist method of Marxism with the subjective, irrational theories of postmodernism and the class struggle with various forms of identity politics, which focus on issues of race and sexual orientation.

>Five years ago, we wrote on the occasion of an appearance by Žižek in New York:

>“Zizek is an outgrowth of a reactionary anti-Marxist and anti-materialist tradition that descends from the irrationalism of Schelling, Kierkegaard, Nietzsche and Heidegger. He eclectically draws on the neo-Nietzschean and neo-Heideggerian thought of 1960s French post-structuralism.

>Zizek, “as with the post-structuralists and the post-Maoists, is a political opportunist, though crasser and ruder. Despite all the radical-sounding bluster he pumps off, when it comes down to real politics, not the political phantoms in his brain, his positions end up serving interests that are completely hostile to the international working class and to genuine socialism.”

>The sharp social polarisation accompanying the intensification of the crisis of capitalism forces Žižek and his ilk to show their true colours. They can no longer hide their right-wing politics behind pseudo-left phraseology. From that standpoint, Žižek’s transformation from an ideologist of the pseudo-left to an open right-winger is an unmistakeable sign that fierce class battles are ahead.

>>7805102
this just in, socialist movements are prone to fracturing and denunciations

No he's a member of the old left, that reject cultural marxism and political correctness. He supports the white working class whereas the new left classify them as the enemy. It's like the 60s cultural revolution never happened in your mind.

>>7805106
Žižek is one of the most prominent authors of literature today. I'm surprised you're browsing a literature board and don't know about this

>>7805102
Partisan reductionism.

Žižek doesn't give a shit about political correctness or pandering to either left or right. All of humanity is disgusting in his view, whether you're le ubermensch or filthy immigrants.

He's an equal opportunity offender. And I salute him for it.

>>7805116
>zizek
>fiction

He is left as in social left, not left as in liberal left

because zizek like adorno believes that capitalism has made revolutions pointless the internationalists will obviously mark him as a reactionary, but zizek is still all about ownership of production except like marx he will make no moralistic or ethical claims

Zizek does have some weird thing about "capitalism with Asian values", which he insists is something dystopian and terrifying (and also, he says, "not Asian", but in that case why call it that?). While I wouldn't call him a rightist or anything dumb like that, nigga needs to embrace the joys of paternal state-capitalism and quit being so afraid of the shopping-mall-world it's building. Because he doesn't his conclusions are always mealy-mouthed post-Leninist vagueness.

>>7805120
REEEE

>literature
>only fiction

>>7805130
>he doesn't know what literature is

not literature. reported.

>>7805115
>cultural memeism
>>>/pol/

>>7805130
>zizek
>superior or artistic value

lol

>>7805149
>implying he isn't the greatest intellectual alive today

He has his redeeming qualities to say the least.

good, he's their problem now

zizek is only good for a laugh

>>7805102
>>Following one of his idols, the French philosopher and Maoist Alain Badiou, Žižek divides mankind into “three kinds of subjects”–a “Western, ‘civilized, bourgeois, liberal-democratic subject”; “those who do not belong to the West and who are obsessed by their longing for the West”; and finally, “those fascistic nihilists whose envy of the West is transformed into a deadly self-destructive hatred.”
>>The colonialist model of this scheme is obvious. On one side, the civilized West and the local elites who are obsessed with the “longing for the West”; on the other side, the barbarian savages whom the West must bring under control in cooperation with the local elites—the “white man’s burden”, as it was called by Rudyard Kipling. Under the banner of such conceptions, the imperialist powers have committed unspeakable crimes in the past 150 years and massacred millions of people
holy fuck these people don't know how to read

>>7805126
he was referring to this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_values

>>7805106
should probably be renamed /žiž/ - Žižek

>>7805102

>WSWS
>Listening to butthurt Trots
>Taking SEP seriously

>>7805102
why does decrying rape make someone a 'rightist'?

you're spinning yourself in a circle of stupid.

It's interesting to read this kind of thing from a perspective within the humanities. All of these Zizek quotes are perfectly conventional jargon and trade-speak for people whose intellectual vocation requires eclectic reading in sociology, political philosophy, anthropology, etc.. and then the writer is just completely uncomprehending of them. It's not individual things Zizek is saying that the writer doesn't understand, but like the whole milieu and its outillage. But then somehow they're "smart" enough to dredge in childlike references to Kipling and stuff, and write a whole article all by themselves.

It's weird, maybe uncanny? I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. It's like when you read a really really dismissive scientistic materialist analytic philosopher guy just pooping all over something like Bergson's vitalism, going on and on with the "HAHAHA LMAO HE REALLY BELIEVES IN MAGIC!!!! LOOOOOL", and you just wonder, how can you be sufficiently intelligent to be an analytic philosopher guy or nuclear physicist (or whatever), and not have the basic wherewithal to recognise when you're dealing with a different intellectual register? Even if you suspect the register is dumb, you at least have to know that you can't just try to parse its symbols through a completely different one.

It honestly reads like that
>SLAVOJ ZIZEK, MARXIST, COMMUNIST, AND KNOWN JEW
copypasta. It might as well be machine-generated.

come home right man

Zizek is often ambiguous and the opposite of a straightforward thinker, I'm surprised the Kabbalists haven't claimed him for themselves

>>7805617

why is land so based

>>7805149
the definition said "ESPECIALLY those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit," not "SPECIFICALLY those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit," learn2logic

A right marxist, that makes total sense

>>7805465
I actually agree with Zizek on Muslim immigration in Europe, and his criticisms of postcolonial theory. To paraphrase, it is very telling how lefty intellectuals like to attack "the West" right as capitalism no longer needs Western culture in order to keep expanding, and is proving itself to be able to adapt just as easily to Confucian or Islamic cultures.

I question to what extent the Left should be putting so much faith in religious Muslims as our allies. They're either turning to right-wing religious fascism, or assimilating quite nicely into capitalism and consumerism. Very rarely do you see Muslim immigrants joining Leftist parties.

only according to people who think you're "right wing" if you don't unconditionally support as many people immigrating from the third world to europe as possible.

>>7805786
racist bigot

>>7805786
the mistake the western left made and will never recover from is dropping the white working class and hoping that minorities and immigrants will be the new revolutionary class.

>>7805809
Actually, it makes sense to put revolutionary hopes on black and Latino proletariat, given that they are the most exploited by far.

Muslims, on the other hand, are way too right-wing. They don't join communist parties, labor unions, or other leftist organizations. Instead, they run off to Syria to join ISIS.

The real issue with Marxism today is that it puts way too much hope in societal deviants to be revolutionary.

>>7805805
Here's what most kebab won't tell you: it's actually prohibited in Islamic Law for Muslims to migrate to states ruled by non-Muslims solely for the purpose of economic gain. The Qur'an even instructs Muslims not to take non-believers as protectors, which says a lot given that the UK, Sweden, and Italy all have a state church while France, Germany, and the US are notoriously secular.

You can tell that the vast majority of Syrian refugees are, in fact, economic migrants given that 1. most of them are young males who come by themselves, 2. they only desire to move to richer EU countries such as Germany and Norway, something which Zizek has mentioned, and 3. many of them actually go BACK to Syria after realizing the streets in Frankfurt and Berlin aren't paved with gold like they were told when they were being smuggled over.

Meanwhile, my state (Vermont) takes in a shitload of actual refugees from Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Bhutan, and Nepal, all of whom have no desire to go back to the warzones in which they came.

>>7805102
if you have any brains, you eventually land on the right.

>>7805786
I pretty much agree with him too but my point with that post is that Zizek isn't really necessarily agreeing with that conception of the West in relation to its Other, but just pointing that out in a rhetorical manner. I saw someone else make that same mistake and it's so odd.

Reminder that Zizek browses, and perhaps even contributes to, American Renaissance

>yfw you realise he is red-pilled

gawker.com/slavoj-zizek-sorta-kinda-admits-plagiarizing-white-supr-160...

>>7805102
It isnt so much that he is a Rightist as it is that the "modern left" is a really, really bad joke. Zizek has always been an AUTHORITARIAN Stalinist, how these people have missed this I dont understand. But as long as it pisses off the pseudo-leftists im happy with this

>>7806096
>Zizek has always been an AUTHORITARIAN Stalinist, how these people have missed this I dont understand.
this

>But as long as it pisses off the pseudo-leftists im happy with this
and also this

>>7805485
>/fit/ > /zyzz/
>/lit/ > /žiž/


P O T T E R Y, L A D S

>>7805906
>Actually, it makes sense to put revolutionary hopes on black and Latino proletariat, given that they are the most exploited by far.
>black
>most exploited by far

I dont think being useless thugs and druggies counts as exploited

>he's not a SJW who only addresses chicks with dicks, browns and blacks
>this guy is definitely KKK

>>7805806
nice meme

>Zizek is a rightist
>Zizek: anti-Marxism, anti-Materialism

kek, trots really are this dumb

>be even slightly critical of non whites
>RRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE RIGHTIST FASCIST BIGOT
this is why the right is gaining popularity.

>>7805102
>there is no evidence that anything happened
how can you be this delusional?

>>7805118
>>7805514
>>7805971

>>7805713
he browses 4chan

>>7805938
Sweden does not have a state church.

>>7806096
>Zizek has always been an AUTHORITARIAN Stalinist
He's explicitly said that he's not a stalinist.

>>7805521
Good post

>>7805102
>They did not behave out of ignorance in Cologne, but “because they want to violate our sensitivities."
Isn't this the kind of claim that you should have evidence to back up? I don't agree with all the criticism that person made but I agree that without specific evidence to the contrary one shouldn't say that
>anything happened other than what regularly takes place in similar mass gatherings where much alcohol is involved.

>>7806241

He criticized Hitler for not being violent ENOUGH.

But sure, the guy hates authority and the leaders it entails.

>>7805102

As part of the /pol/itical /lit/erati, Žižek has been surprising me lately. That's not to say I agree with all of what he says, but we increasingly share enemies.

Nonetheless, I can never be sure if he's sincere or not. I get the impression he's a philosophical contrarian.

Someone needs to tell him that 'fascist'/'fascistic' has no meaning any more, due to chronic overuse.

>>7806253
are you agreeing with the bottom statement?

>>7806257
Speaking of not understanding.
>>7806265
I just used greentext instead of quotation marks.

>>7806272
are you agreeing with the bottom statement

>>7806274
I'm unsure wether you mean the greentext on it's own or the whole sentence I wrote. I agree that without specific evidence to the contrary one shouldn't say that anything happened other than what regularly takes place in similar mass gatherings where much alcohol is involved.

>>7806278
there was specific evidence

>>7806281
there wasn't specific evidence

This is a fun game.

>>7806281
Not that other anon - there were asylum seekers involved, but the number of rapes and sexual assaults is similar to other big events in Germany (Oktoberfest, Karneval etc.)

>The assumption that “behind the vicious circle of desire, envy and hatred” (feelings he sweepingly ascribes to immigrant youth) there lies “any deeper human core of global solidarity” Žižek calls “part of a naive, humanist metaphysics.”

>I don't like it. It's logocentrism!

I don't like the refugee crisis but this doesn't make any sense. Zizek is becoming a parody of himself, but I'm sure there's some post-structural explanation for that too

>>7806288
can I have a source on that

>>7805126

I've been in Asia for months now. Capitalism with Asian values works fine.

>>7806272

>Hitler was not violent enough

What is there to misunderstand?

>>7806288

You're so full of shit. How many Euros do you get paid for these posts?

>>7806292
Sure!

The attacks Zizek is talking about:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Cologne_Sexual_Attacks

>At least 5 alleged rapes:
> 3 complaints in Cologne
> 2 complaints in Hamburg

Oktoberfest 2015

http://www.noz.de/deutschland-welt/vermischtes/artikel/617339/oktoberfest-abgetrenntes-ohr-hirntod-schlafende-missbraucht

20 sexual assaults with no rapes, 2014 had two rapes

http://www.taz.de/!5156348/

>roughly 10 reported rapes for each Oktoberfest, estimated number 200

>>7806356

>He compares rapes alone with sexual assaults PLUS rapes elsewhere

Wew. Read your own link:

>During the 2016 New Year's Eve celebrations, hundreds of sexual assaults (including groping), numerous thefts, and at least five rapes were reported in Germany, mainly in Cologne city centre.

Why don't you hang out and read books in Calais, if it's no less safe than elsewhere?

>>7806366
Yes, and my argument was that that number hasn't particularly grown compared to other events in Germany in the years before? Did you read the rest of my post before you went into reeee mode?

>>7806368

No, the number of RAPES hasn't really grown.

According to you, hundreds of sexual assaults/etc are fair game.

Who cares if "Police reported that the perpetrators were men of "Arab or North African appearance" and called it "a completely new dimension of crime"?

I think an attentive reader of his works from the 80s would've noticed he's a right-winger.

Take his discussion of Another Country in Sublime Object of Ideology, for example. Classic instance of esoteric writing.

>>7806369
This was not a large gathering. It was not Oktoberfest. It's done people swarming a train station harassing people.

>>7806356
>20 sexual assaults with no rapes
you realise Cologne had over 500 complaints right?
the writing is on the wall as far as Muslims in Europe are concerned, you don't have make excuses for them on 4chan my dude, no one is watching

>>7806368
>desperately trying to relativise migrant rape spree

for once I'd love to hear "progressives" admit that the migrant situation is a fuck up

>>7806382

This is why we must destroy the left.
I was on their team for a long time, but seeing a whole civilization deteriorate in front of my eyes is enough for me to switch camps somewhat.

These people will be the downfall of us all.
No other civilization possesses a leftist faction this large enough to pose an existential threat from within.
I would love a capitalism with Asian values if it means a functional society. I care about nothing else.
These people truly think they possess the ideas and the means to transcend historical law.
If it had been them in Rome, it would have worked out with the barbarians. If it had been them having their way anytime, it would have been near utopic.

I can't do much as a single individual, but I support any cause that destroys these fucks if it means European civilization survives.

>>7806401

>>7806411

It won't be so fun when your grand kids will live under shariah law in a third world country.

>>7805115
>that reject cultural marxism
You are fucking retarded, Frankfurt School shits on modern consumptionism and stupidity.

>>7806411
okay, so climate change alarmists are A okay but people with apprehensions about massive demographic shifts are racist idiots?

>>7805713
He's not any more based than Yudkowsky, Baudrillard or Žižek. He's just a bullshitter who knows how to write.

But I thougt rape allegations were always false?

>>7806465
So anyone that strives to understand the world in a manner other than braindead materialistic reductionism is a "bullshitter"?

>>7806468
>#listenandbelieve
>except in Cologne

>>7806469

Zizek is a materialist.

>>7806469
Land is very very materialist, he just dresses it up in esoteric language

>>7806469

You gotta play according to the rules of the petty bourgeois to be accepted in their pantheon of greats.
One of the rules is to be a materialist.
Another rule is that materialism does not stretch so far that it includes human biology though. You try your utmost best to explain everything without bringing in a racial component. It has to be social.

>>7806477
He's a disciple of Lacanism which is the polar opposite of any reality-based analysis grid.

>>7806264
>Someone needs to tell him that 'fascist'/'fascistic' has no meaning any more, due to chronic overuse.
>Implying that's not a way to relabel fascism into some trendy new word

>>7806423
Human-induced climate change and environmental destructionsare scientifically proven facts. Unlike the conspiracy between the left and the evil hordes of migrants. You're allowed to be worried about demographic shifts, you're allowed to hate the left but don't pretend they present an existential threat anywhere near the level of the destruction of ecosystems.

>>7806509
>but don't pretend they present an existential threat

but that's exactly the point in contention, anon. Why are you presupposing the conclusion?

We've seen the effects of large migration from the Islamic world, we have documented statistics. Discussion of this sensitive issue will without a doubt lead you to be pathologised. Even now, your snark about "conspiracy of the left and evil horde" is loaded with "haha stupid reactionary".

>>7806509
"stop being afraid of change"
"but the change will effect a lot of lives. the effects are likely irreversible."
"reactionary fool, there's no proof."
"but we are literally witnessing the happening of what we've warned you about."

>>7806520
>>7806520
>but that's exactly the point in contention, anon. Why are you presupposing the conclusion?
The post you either wrote or supported >>7806401 said
>a leftist faction this large enough to pose an existential threat from within
So this is about an existential threat, the (to me) fantasied end of the West.
>we have documented statistics
Such as?

>Even now, your snark
That's true and I take my snark back. It was unwarranted. I don't actually think reactionaries are dumb.

>>7806465
what do you think is bullshit?

>>7806527
well...more like an existential threat against a relatively liberal homogeneous Western society but yes. High criminality of Islamic immigrants reflected in crime statistics, tepid reaction slash enabling of Islamist contingencies by a political faction supposedly espousing liberal values etc, need I go on?

>>7806527
you still haven't answered my point about you scoffing and dismissing the idea of existential threat against the West. Why are you presupposing the conclusion?

>>7806541
>High criminality of Islamic immigrants reflected in crime statistics
How does that lead to the West disappearing though?
>enabling of Islamist contingencies
Uh?
>>7806543
How can a small minority of Europeans being muslim migrants, with no political or economical power, be the cause of general disintegration and catastrophe?

I think we do have actual existential threats. The environment. Or another financial crisis leading us into a great depression. Or escalating wars culminating in nuclear strikes.

I can even see an enormous wave of migration due to climate warming and the subsequent destabilization of the Sahel and the Middle-East in the second part of century. That wouldn't do us any good. But that's just a consequence of larger causes (climate and wars) and not the main factor leading to the possible fall of our civilization.

My point is I think you're overestimating the importance of migration and the harmfulness of the Left. Because I don't see how those are actual x-risks.

>>7806560
Islamic migrants have a hard time integrating whether through """"discrimination""""" or of their own volition (though I'm leaning towards the latter, seeing as they tend to self segregate not unlike Orthodox jews) - > leads to Islamic ghettos forming - > balkanised state

eg. Jews in France are being attacked by Islamic migrants
eg. districts in UK demanding implementation of Sharia Law
eg.Islamic rape gangs

the number of Islamic immigrants is constantly increasing. Soon they'll be a sizeable minority with attitudes incompatible to the West.

I don't get why the left loves Muslims, really.

>>7806560
>How can a small minority of Europeans being muslim migrants
because that minority is growing?

>>7806560
the "small amount" Paris had, how did that turn out?
>Paris

the "small amount" America had, how did that turn out?
>Boston
>and many more subsequent attacks

the small amount Sweden had, how did that turn out?
>mass rape
>riots

the small amount Norway --- you get my point?

Why is it that Muslims cause problems wherever they go?

>>7806560
liberal left rushing to 'protect' Muslims and painting them as the victim every time a Muslim terrorist attack happens is pretty telling.

>>7805102
spooky

>>7805115
> Rejects cultural marxism
> Spends most of his oeuvre talking about pop culture

>>7805165
>Who's Giorgio Agamben?

>>7806422
yes.

just imagine Europe with no brown people selling you trinkets at tourist destinations
awful right?

MODS MODS MODS
this is now a /pol/ thread

>>7806606
just sayin, the girl in that pic was making a joke

>>7806580
>I don't get why the left loves Muslims, really.
They don't. Leftits are usually secular and don't like organized religion, at least in my country.
>>7806591
>liberal left rushing to 'protect' Muslims and painting them as the victim every time a Muslim terrorist attack happens is pretty telling.
No they try to distinguish between the actual perpetrators of political/religious crimes (ie. terror attacks) and the vast majority of normal muslim people who, much like Jackie Chan, don't want any trouble.
If we lump them together we'll have religious persecution and civil disorder. And possibly push more moderate muslims into the arms of the shit-stirrers like Isis, and more moderate atheists/christians into the arms of shit-stirrers like Pegida and other proto-fascist parties.
The islamic extremists and the anti-islamic extremists have opposed but symmetrical worldviews. They need one another to justify themselves and both want to lead us down the path of the "clash of civilizations". That way lies more wars and possibly genocide (of the Muslim minority by facists. I don't think the migrants would ever be strong enough to somehow wipe out the Europeans native.)


>>7806588
You're confusing Islam as practiced by most people with violent jihadism which only a very small percentage of people believe in, let alone practice. Sweden managed to integrate the muslim Bosnians with no particular problems.

Now all that being said, I don't deny there are problems of integration. Some of the commonly-held values of migrants from muslim countries are not compatible with a secular democracy. That's true. It doesn't mean we're doomed to go to war with every one of them. It means we have to work on that, be firm and educate people. I grew up in a very diverse neighborhood with tons of kids with migrant parents. If the school does its job well, and there are economic opportunities for everyone, the second and third generation become culturally assimilated and have no reason to riot or blow themselves up.

God damn it I wrote a wall of text that won't convince anyone. Well I'm at least I'm trying to engage right? Sigh...

>>7806623
>You're confusing Islam as practiced by most people with violent jihadism which only a very small percentage of people believe in

>>7806623
the "not all of them" argument is really terrible and you should stop, though I have a soft spot for sweet innocent idealists like you.
Where do you live?

>>7806623
>vast majority of normal muslim people

when will this meme die. you had your cosmopolitan experience of that one cool muslim family and suddenly demographic trends are moot. This is EXACTLY the point being discussed, that the "small minority of extremists" isn't a "small minority"

>>7806623
>They don't
you then go on to do exactly that

>>7806623
>And possibly push more moderate muslims into the arms of the shit-stirrers like Isis

This is just ammunition against Islam and Islamic immigration lol

>>7806623
> It means we have to work on that, be firm and educate people.

why is it our responsibility? We should only accept people who don't need that kind of education. Why would we want to go through the trouble of teaching them to integrate when we can just bar them from entering?

>>7806632
Why is it terrible? I'm not just saying "not all of them" I'm saying "such a tiny number of them". If we keep generalizing we'll just end up demonizing and mistreating an entire minority, like the Rohingya of Burma or the Tutsi in Rwanda. Or, well, the Jews in Germany in the 1930's.

For me the muslim problem is a diversion from our actual issues which are environmental and economical in nature.

>>7806638
All right show me your sources then.

>>7806641
I don't love muslims. I actually think non-Sufi and post-Golden Age Islam kind of sucks. Just like Christianity, just like Judaism, just like huge swaths of Hinduism and Buddhism.

But I don't hate or fear people just because they're muslims either. I think we need to work with muslim communities in our countries rather than orchestrate hate campaigns against them. They're not actually responsible for our problems. They're people just trying to get by.

>>7806647
Well okay that's a good question. My opinion is we can't actually bar immigrants entry. They'll always manage to sneak in Europe one way or another just like Mexicans do in the US. Anytime we close one route another opens. But sure we can deport any migrant that's violent or won't accept our social contract.
We also have to work on the underlying causes of the migration wave. That's more productive than building walls.

I like ziz so I hope he comes right and stops being a lefty "I won't let these peoples take liberalism" cuck.

>>7806655
>"such a tiny number of them"
>>7806588

>what is heuristic method

>>7806655
>They'll always manage to sneak in Europe one way or another just like Mexicans do in the US.

so? Should we do away with laws because criminals are still going to commit crimes?

the logistics of employing tough borders isn't that challenging.

>>7806655
a bunch of people get gibbed by Islamists and you feel sorry for the Muslim who'll get dirty looks in the train. My god, where is your sympathy for native Europeans?

>>7806655
funny how we didn't get the "not all Christians" support when gay marriage was a hot topic and circa 2010 New Atheist euphoria was let loose on the public.

>>7806655
>live in a large house with your large extended family
>there is room, not a lot though
>hear knock on the door
>10 strangers demand to be let in, lest they face certain death
>you look over and you see that this isn't quite true but your sibling feels sorry for them and urges you to take them in
>you know for a fact that at least 3 of them will hurt your family, destroy things inside your house and demand that you change house rules to suit them
>take them in
>as expected shit goes down
>although the 7 didn't "do anything", 2 of them implicitly supported the 3 and 5 didn't feel any sense of responsibility
>other members of your family start looking at them funny, with distrust
>the sibling who brought them in tells the other members to stop generalising
>tfw this could've been avoided

>>7806664
Some of it is anecdotal or questionable evidence, some of it has more to do with wars in the middle-east than with migrants. I still haven't seen any real studies or numbers.

>>7806670
If one European country closes its borders the others will receive the migrants. If all close their borders lots of innocent migrants will die and eventually the borders will be overrun. What other scenario do you see?

>>7806675
>>7806677
You seem to be under the impression I defend muslims more than native christians europeans. I don't. My political activities center on helping laid-off (mostly white christian) workers and more generally fighting for worker's rights, as well as laboriously trying to set up closed-loop local food production. Oh also I forgot to say I live in France.

>>7806675
I hope you are okay with women hating men in general.

do away with these types of threads

>>7806693
>If one European country closes its borders the others will receive the migrants. If all close their borders lots of innocent migrants will die and eventually the borders will be overrun. What other scenario do you see?

Easy, the Arab League takes them in.

>>7806693
>If all close their borders lots of innocent migrants will die and eventually the borders will be overrun
if we want to actually close the borders we can
and people like you are going to force it to happen

>>7806700
I have no choice, because if I wasn't okay with it I'd get labelled a fat MRA

>>/pol/
>>/leftypol/

>>7806693
if you are supporting laid off workers why are you in favour of mass immigration? The working class are the people directly affected by migrant intake, wage compression, competition etc

>>7806705
Yep, no discernible literature.

>>7806693
>I still haven't seen any real studies or numbers.

I have no vested interest in this because I'm Korean, but have you even looked at this page?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime

>>7806717
By whom?

>>7806743
I think you know.

>>7806736
>I have no vested interest in this because I'm Korean
>implying South Korea isn't actively working against freer North Korean borders so they won't have to take care of refugees

>>7806716
>people like you are going to force it to happen
Am I? I don't feel like I have much influence on political processes. I'm in the tiny minority of marxist/political ecology left.

>>7806725
I agree that the working class suffers from having a large reserve army of undocumented workers.
I'm in favor of legalizing the migrants who are already there so they can't be hired for less money than the natives. I'm also in favor of doing a massive rehaul of the economic system. Such as limiting international exchanges of goods, focusing on sustainable energies and lifestyles, sharing the workload by reducing hours for those who are overworked (most working people) and compensating that by hiring lots of currently unemployed people. And so on and so on.

>>7806736
"the share of immigrants in the population has no significant impact on crime rates once immigrants’ economic circumstances are controlled for, while finding that unemployed immigrants tend to commit more crimes than unemployed non-immigrants."
So it's about economic opportunities, like I said.

>>7806748
No, please be specific. When and where would you be branded as an MRA?

>>7806752
>somehow conflating South Korean situation with European refugee crisis

>>7805763
Leninism, is a right wing form of marxism, so it kind of does make sense.
>>7806670
The problem of millions of refugees, is caused due to western imperialism and climate change. If the west would stop bombing african and middle eastern countries, stop selling arms to countries like Saudi Arabia and if we didn't arm lots of islamic extremists to fight the Soviets in the 80s, we would not have the problems we are having now. The question is how do we stop the Islamic extremism, which is linked to our imperialist, neo-colonialist politics and in doing so stop the flow of refugees?

>>7806756
I was not.

>>7806754
>while finding that unemployed immigrants tend to commit more crimes than unemployed non-immigrants

hmmm

>>7806754
>I'm in the tiny minority of marxist/political ecology left.
jfc
I hope some DSP goons turn your face into mush

>>7806757
>western imperialism

there it is. this is how far the termites have gotten

anything to shift the blame from the actual agents of actions

>>7806754
>I'm in favor of legalizing the migrants who are already there so they can't be hired for less money than the natives

if they came through strictly controlled legal channels why wouldn't they be documented already?

>>7806754
>Such as limiting international exchanges of goods

confirmed for literal retard

>we can stop globalisation
>but not erect tough borders

>>7806757
you know you can prevent immigrants from coming into your countries if you shoot them until they stop

it's quite easy and simple

>>7806757
>if we didn't arm lots of islamic extremists

how does one justify the other? the fault is still with islamic extremists for doing evil acts

>>7805102
>wsws
>taking those retards seriously
Kill yourself, OP

>>7806623
>>7806655
>>7806693
>>7806754
>>7806757
you are everything wrong with the western left
it will be amusing to watch you flail around as your ideological bubble continues to implode around you

>>7806755
I'll do you one even better. Go to a popular mainstream internet forum and say "women should stop generalising men"

>>7806604
Sounds like you don't understand him, but only just did a quick Google search of living philosophers. Next you're going to tell me sloterdijk is better than agamben

>>7806757
France and the US have very recently supported al-Nosra (a branch of Al-Qaida) in Syria with weapons and equipment, through the Turkish secret services. The French Minister of External Affairs said a few months ago that al-Nosra was doing "a great job on the ground."

They also keep supporting Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries partly because of their oil. My country, France, lets them flood the french muslims with wahhabi preachers and books, proselyte charities and so on. I've seen it in my own neighborhood. This is a huge part of the problem. So yeah I agree, although not everything is reducible to western powers. The islamic world has its own long-standing problems.

>>7805521
Those scientists appear to be more intelligent than they are, because they specialized in a field with a steep learning curve that also involves a language you don't know. (I read philosophy but am a PhD in physics and know the people you talk about)

>>7806782
What counts as popular and mainstream? And are you implying that one shouldn't generalize men? If so, do you also think one shouldn't generalize muslems?

>>7806770
I'm saying we legalize the illegal ones so the unfair competition to the legal workers stop.

>>7806759
Then we work on it. We don't kill them all, we integrate them better.

>>7806773
We can do one without doing the other.
We've been doing freedom of movement for goods and not for people for a while now. I propose we reverse that. International free-trade is demonstrably bad for the planet and bad for the working class. Refugees aren't.
And I'm not in favor of welcoming all economic migrants by the way. I just don't want to let the refugees die crashing on our borders.

>>7806775
Why would we need to do that? They're not going to destroy us. None of you have presented solid arguments for that thesis.

>>7806779
How? How am I harming people? I'm legitimately trying to help.

>>7806800
>I'm legitimately trying to help.
sweetie

>>7806783
That's the most stupid accusation I've ever received.

Also, I haven't read Sloterdijk.

>>7805102
>tfw people still misunderstand Kipling

>>7806800
looks like the hippie out talked the stormfags
we can go back to Zizek
has anyone read his book about toilets? can't find the title

>>7806837

Explain your understanding.

>>7806839

Looks like the hippie samefagged himself.

>>7806839
>looks like the hippie out talked the stormfags
not really lad

>>7806827
Looks like the retard is upset.

Zizek like de Benoist of the European New Right does think the Left-Right dictotomy is bullshit nowadays in the age of unopposed liberalism. The so caled postmodern left nowadays accepts the rootless nature of cosmopolitanism and its materialism (notice how they're all obcessed with consuming and commenting on pop culture?). He's a far cry away from the ENR though

How has /lit/ fallen? All this meme spouting by /pol/yps and tumblierits and no actual discussion about Zizek.

Just read one book by him then talk about how he is shit or not.

The fate of the left is cannibalism. Good luck Germanbros!

>>7806690
This post is underrated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOdO1kv6sp0

>>7806711
This. Keep them in similar communities in terms of both cultural and language. Set up places in Jordan, Lebanon, and other countries that care bare the burden instead of leaving them here to produce disaffected offspring that will turn against the Western hosts.

bump

>>7805118
>He's an equal opportunity offender.
probably the best definition of Zizek I've seen so far.

>>7806264
>Someone needs to tell him that 'fascist'/'fascistic' has no meaning any more, due to chronic overuse
pretty sure he's perfectly aware of that m8

>>7806485

Land isn't a materialist. I mean, his collected works is called "Fanged Noumena," and he definitely advocates a non-materialist conception of the world. I think he'd say materialism is suspiciously humanist.

>>7806690
Now I want an artsy movie that subtly does a version of this as an argument

Dont ask me why, I just imagined this as a movie

>>7805102
>WSWS
Thanks for the opinions, Trots

>>7805120
>literature isn't exclusively fiction

>>7806754
>I'm in favor of legalizing the migrants who are already there so they can't be hired for less money than the natives
They will still be hired by less money than the natives, regardless of documentation. What would happen is that jobs that were slightly above minimum wage would end up in minimum wage, effectively empoverishing people.
>Such as limiting international exchanges of goods
This is completely and utterly asinine. I may be an equally big critic of globalism and neo-liberalism, but it is completely and utterly undeniable that in any period of human civilization that international exchange of goods was facilitated, every part involved benefited more or less. This is completely and utterly true in the contemporary world.

>>7806800
>I just don't want to let the refugees die crashing on our borders
If you keep accepting them without any control, they'll keep crashing in our borders, and the human trafffickers will keep making sweet, sweet cash.
Get this in your head: the majority isnt desperately running for war anymore when they get in a boat and risk their lives in the Mediterranean. They just want a better life.
Thats perfectly understandable. But getting that life is simply impossible for all. And accepting them with open arms just because is justifying the traffickers work.

>>7807285
we got a winner.

if you were to swap the populations of Somalia and Austria what would happen first, Austria collapsing or Somalia prospering?

>>7805521
Huh, nicely put

>>7809875
Australia collapsing. Takes a while to fix a country. Wreaking it is easy.

>>7806800
>we integrate them better.

IT'S NOT OUR FUCKING JOB TO RAISE THEM UP TO THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT OF BEING A CIVILISED HUMAN BEING

>>7806401
>historical law

>>7806523
new fag git bitch dweeb

>>7806520
>anywhere near the level of destruction of ecosystems

he got btfo by chomsky several times

>>7806356
Oktoberfest is a festival spanning two weeks and attracting millions of tourists. The Cologne attacks happened one night in front of a train station where many people had to come by get home after celebrating new years eve. Even if the numbers matched I don't see how they are even comparable.

>>7810269
>why are you complaining about your severed arm?shit could be worse

>>7805102
No, he's by far a leftist. He just enjoys triggering other leftists. Why don't you?

>>7809120
>implying right-wingers are capable of doing anything artsy

>>7811460
Pound, Eliot, Yeats?

>>7805102
>believing that the left / right dichotomy is real

>>>/pol/

>>7805102
>Anybody who isn't part of the new left must be part of the new right

Jesus. I really dislike this essentialism, and it's quite common among left-capitalists and even Marxists. Since 1919 at least, fractiousness has been the left's greatest obstacle, and this doesn't seem to be changing any time soon.

>>7805115
Zizek is basically the most prominant cultural marxist in history using the non-meme definition of the term if there still is one

>>7811460
>implying left-wingers are not guilty of the degeneracy of the modern (shit)art

>>7805102
What's wrong with his face?

>>7811975
It's one of those "cock shock" photos

>>7811474
>rejecting 300 years of political theory to sound edgy

>>>>tumblr.com

>>7811474
>>believing that the left / right dichotomy is real

Oh wow

>>7810209
We do. It's the new white man's burden.
Those poor people with different values than us who don't want to assimilate... How sad it is that they aren't as advanced and progressive as us.

>>7805485
>>7806107
im fuarkin žiž brah

>>7811474
>hasn't even comprehended the reality of the appearance
>>trying to comment on zizek

>>7805938
>it's actually prohibited in Islamic Law for Muslims to migrate to states ruled by non-Muslims solely for the purpose of economic gain.
I've never heard this. Source?

>>7813734

don't be an bourgeois liberal cunt brah,

Be a sick cunt

>>7806465
Putting Yudkowsky in with actual philosophers is downright retarded.

>>7805521
nice post

Where do I start with reading Zizek?

>>7806239
He said secular mate. Secular.

>>7814209
>the UK, Sweden, and Italy all have a state church

Direct quote mate.

>>7814219
Whoops, nevermind.

>>7806349

">Hitler was not violent enough

What is there to misunderstand?"

He has discussed this multiple times, actually. He's making kind of a Kurtz-Monologue-from-Apocalypse-Now type point here--

He thinks that the most "violent" thing possible is to overturn the oppressive powers of society. So when he says Hitler was not violent enough, he does not mean in terms of bodycount, but in terms of ideology. He sees Hitler as an attack dog of the established order, and therefore not very 'violent' in the Zizekian sense, since violence here is redefined from the ordinary meaning.

Also what he's doing is intentionally using specialized definitions of words so that he can make shocking statements like that. He says that he does this in order to shock complacent neoliberals out of their petite bourgeois comfort. But it seems more likely that he's just a troll and literally does it for the lulz.

yeah he's right about almost everything

>>7806604
Zizek discusses Agamben in length in his book "Trouble in Paradise" and "Less than Nothing".
He even modifies some of his theories in interesting ways.

bump

>>7805126
Its called an emerging economy, god dammit I mad when he goes on about how Singapore or China are some kind of ground-breaking trend setters.

>>7805500
this

>>7810276
He btfo'd chomsky several times

>>7805102

No, I don't think so.

Its not entirely a betrayal of leftist or Marxist ideals to be opposed to massive immigration into 1st world countries from 3rd world ones. Its just human nature that people with way different values and culture and language will want to have their own country and not be swamped with people extremely different to and often also hostile to them. Even if most of the world switches to Marxism it won't magically change human behavior when it comes to culture and race.

You can be pro-Marxism while recognizing that massive immigration is not good for the people of the country receiving the immigrants. From Marx's "opiate of the masses" Marxists have sure come a long way to fervently defending Islam and whitewashing the extensive evidence that it often tends to lead to a curtailing of human rights.

The best thing for relatively-honest and well-intentioned Marxist news sources to do it to admit that a pro-immigration stance is not an important component of Marxism.

>>7805118
>>7809015
>Zizek doesn't discriminate. He hates everyone equally!
>He's intelligent, nihilistic, with a wicked sense of humour.

>>7817110
it's not a component at all if we are interested in any sort of revolution happening on anything but a world scale all at once rather than spread as was envisioned
the capitalists can only persist longer with this tower of babel nonsense and swallowing it in the name of fraternity is class traitorism

bump

>>7817156
there will be no (leftist) revolution ever so move on to something else

>>7818246
why the fuck did you do that
>>7818251
that you qualify it shows you know nothing of revolutionary theory

>>7818251
>>7818291
the world will likely destroy itself before anything like a world revolution a la marxism happens.

>>7818302
that those funding the world would vastly prefer skirting the possibility only shows the necessity of thwarting them

nick land is antimatter

>>7818291
the revolution is the left's version of armageddon
the day all your ressentiment will pay off

>>7817110

Weren't OG communists and socialists outspokenly anti-immigration because it completely undermined the workers?

>Zizek is getting red pilled

ehh, it's about time.

>this thread is still up
MODS!!!!
WTF!!

>>7819658
Well it is about a prolific author who writes philosophically.

>>7806736
>>7806754
>crime rates from immigrants is based on economic variables
>A 2015 study found that the increase in immigration flows into western European countries that took place in the 2000s did "not affect crime victimization, but it is associated with an increase in the fear of crime, the latter being consistently and positively correlated with the natives’ unfavourable attitude toward immigrants."
So people who are afraid of immigrants isolate immigrants to live in communities of themselves, and thus never integrating themselves and therefore potentially increasing crime rates.
This is an interesting catch 22. The more racist people are the more reason they have to be genuinely upset about immigration.The solution is to not be xenophobic, and allow immigrants to assimilate and not isolate them from the established citizens.
>A 2014 study found that immigration reduced the crime rate in Canada: "new immigrants do not have a significant impact on property crime rates, but as they stay longer, more established immigrants actually decrease property crime rates significantly.
Maybe you can catch up for once America

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/02/slavoj-zizek-what-our-fear-refugees-says-about-Europe

>29 February 2016 Slavoj Žižek: What our fear of refugees says about Europe
>The true question is not are immigrants a real threat to Europe?, but what does this obsession with the immigrant threat tell us about the weakness of Europe?

Read this his latest article. The majority of uni liberal progressives - some call themselves commies - are idiots. They probably haven't read anything by Zizek anyways.

>There are two dimensions here which should be kept apart. One is the atmosphere of fear, of the struggle against the Islamization of Europe, which has its own obvious absurdities. Refugees who flee terror are equated with the terrorists they are escaping from. The obvious fact that there are terrorists, rapists, criminals etc, among the refugees, while the large majority are desperate people looking for a better life – in the same way that, among the refugees from the German Democratic Republic, there were also hidden Stasi agents – is given a paranoid twist. In this version, immigrants appear (or pretend) to be desperate refugees, while in reality they are the speahead of a new Islamic invasion of Europe. Above all, as is usually the case, the cause of problems which are immanent to today's global capitalism are projected onto an external intruder. A suspicious gaze always finds what it is looking for: “proof” is everywhere, even if half of it is soon proven to be fake.

>>7805102
>According to World Socialist Web Site, Žižek is now a member of the European New Right.

American here. Must be nice to have your Overton window translated that far left.

>He fumes against “the politically correct liberal left,”

Maybe the European left has just forgotten the difference between bourgeois social democracy and socialism in the wake of their failed attempt at an evolutionary, parliamentary transition.

>>7807760
any left associated content has sprouted the same discussion all over the site
at least this thread is somewhat focused on a topic

>>7805906
It doesn't make sense to act like those exploited blacks etc. that they have no agency of their own and keep telling them evil white man is keeping them down.

Why do you think Trump has like 25% support among blacks? Because he treats them like people capable of their own decisions and actions and tells them he'll return job opportunities from China and shit.

Left is just chimping out and acts like that's what blacks should to as well. That's rayciss in itself.

I would have deleted this thread too.

>>7820853
I wish he didn't keep calling them refugees when the majority of them are just economically motivated emigrants.

>>7821648
Or in other words, rapefugees.

bump

>>7806082
>AmRen, a white supremacist journal

>>7822336
>You post that as if it's a bad thing.

Zizek is also a meme.

>>7823858
zizek is love, zizek is life.

>>7824445
Zizek confirmed best girl. Waifu for life.

>>7805115

>lacanian psycho-analysis is old left

kek