/lit/ - Literature

i do that too

t. White cis-man

>>7772930
>tfw NEET prodigious reader

No one can accuse me of showing off with my reading, since I have no friends.

>>7772903

what would he know about women anyway

>>7772936
this is somewhat a consolation

>>7772948
Do you have to have sex with something to understand it? Because if so I hope we don't go to the same library.

We all act as though the big Other is watching

>>7772903
Are you telling me Savannah Browne isn't really a poet but just a redditard attention-whoring lesbian wannabe begging for praise about how intelligent she is because she can spout rhymes and read phrases from beginning to end?

>>7773436
This is a good joke.

Nietzsche made a fuck ton presumptions based on just his perception alone. It's reasonable to think he was wrong in a lot of areas and nothing he said was matter of fact.

>>7773457
lies are better facts, anon

>>7773457
>nothing he said was matter of fact
This is true, but you saying it makes me think you missed the point. To him, an individual's perception was more important than any outside idea of objective truth, which he viewed as 'otherworldly'.

>>7773465
Maybe, I think Nietzsche was against "facts".

>>7773489
Yes, thanks for clearing it up

>>7773491
I was paraphrasing him

>>7773506
You're welcome, always glad to help.

>>7773436
Quality post.

>>7773457
Literally all of his philosophy is attached to qualifying statements somewhere saying it's just his opinion and that anyone who tries to create a system for you to believe in is being disingenuous and probably wants to enslave you. One of the last lessons Zarathustra gives his followers in the first part is that they should forget everything he told them about living and figure out for themselves how they ought to live.

>>7773491
Not necessarily, he asserted that he was a perspectivist rather than a full relativist. Which is to say some people's version of the truth is more legitimate than others.

For example if someone comes to a truth where fire is not hot and water is not wet, we can pretty well discount his accounts of fire and water at least, if not throwing all of his insights out as those of a fool.

But in the end, he sums his belief on perspectivism by calling himself a yes-man. He says yes to his truth, yes to your truth, perhaps yes to "our" truth depending on the situation, but once you start talking about THE truth, he says no, shut the fuck up you are talking out of your ass.

Despite this he considered himself an honest person and held that honesty was his most important virtue.

>>7773820
>yes-man
I thought that was more about his amor fati shit rather than perspectivism?

>>7773457
I don't think he would deny this at all.

>>7773832
That's the other part of its meaning, yes to life and yes to truth. The truth that you find through living your life, not the truth you find through pondering about the otherworldly. Living and truthseeking are tied together under amor fati. His entire philosophy rested on this formulation.

The eternal recurrence, which he considered one of his most important conceptions, was merely a litmus test developed to help one put life events in perspective and guide one's life much like how Christians use heaven and hell, God and Satan to explain why things happen to them and as a guide for living a good life.

For example, under ER when one looks back, you can gain perspective. Instead of saying "I wish I hadn't wet my pants at my piano recital in 3rd grade", you say "I am glad I wet my pants at that recital because it taught me that one must pee before performing on a stage." ER also generates contempt for oneself (ie I only live once, why am I stuck here, why am I not stronger, why am I not smarter, the questions one asks after failure) which leads to self-overcoming. An interesting fragment from his notes:

"Type of my disciples: To those human beings in whom I have a stake I wish suffering, being forsaken, sickness, maltreatment, humiliation--I wish that profound self-contempt, the torture of mistrust of oneself, and the misery of him who is overcome, not remain unknown to them: I have no pity for them because I wish them the only thing which can prove today whether one has worth or not--that one holds out."

Crowley kind of spun this idea out further into Thelema which combined with theosophy went into pretty much all new age religion. Crowley is to Nietzsche as Paul was to Christ, at least that's how I feel the history will play itself out over the next few centuries. Nietzsche wrote that the west wouldn't truly start working on solving its nihilism problem until the 21st century since it would waste the 20th century in wars of mass-ideology.

>>7773899
>Nietzsche wrote that the west wouldn't truly start working on solving its nihilism problem until the 21st century since it would waste the 20th century in wars of mass-ideology.

That is fucking scary to read.

>>7773457
>nothing he said was matter of fact.
Don't exaggerate. Nietzsche's work contains a lot of information on historical development with respect to people's modes of thinking. You just have to ignore all the judgements that he makes because they are pure Nietzschean ideology.

>Type of my disciples: To those human beings in whom I have a stake I wish suffering, being forsaken, sickness, maltreatment, humiliation--I wish that profound self-contempt, the torture of mistrust of oneself, and the misery of him who is overcome, not remain unknown to them: I have no pity for them because I wish them the only thing which can prove today whether one has worth or not--that one holds out.
top kek so Nitzsche thought that suffering was worth it for as long as you could prove you're strong to other people? That is like saying he is a narcissistic conformist.
Why was Nietzche so preoccupied with looking edgy?

>>7772903

Roasties being roasties

In other news, bear shits in woods.

Seeing "great" philosophers writing shit like this really brings me down. Brings me down because it makes me realize how clueless they are. Even about such a basic thing as women, and what does that then say about their understanding of metaphysics, and the such?
Men are so awfully dumb. Dumb hairy big children. Maybe if you'd stop seeing women as aliens and talk to them (genuinely talk to them) once, this would become clear to you.

>>7773996
>prove you're strong to other people
>to other people
It's about proving it to yourself, not other people.

>>7774030
gibe pucci

>>7773996
>prove you're strong to other people
>not to yourself

>>7774030
>what does that say about their understanding of metaphysics
Nothing.
>stop seeing women as aliens
Most of them see men as alien too.
>and talk to them(genuinely talk to them)
What makes you think Nietzsche didn't? Have you even read Twilight of the Idols or are you just basing this thought on a quote with no context?

>>7774061
>Most of them see men as alien too.
Not in the slightest

>>7774030
Nietzsche agreed with you on one point, he believed that men were much more childish than women, and that woman's love of children is what draws her to man. Man is drawn to women because a man loves danger, but his childish heart loves play. Women are the most dangerous plaything.

>>7774070

Nietzsche was full of shit. Women are the childish ones

>>7774030
it's the
>men are simple. but women are complicated and enigmatic meme
women aren't that complicated. most of this shit is just thirsty retards being overly romantic about them

>>7774030
>Men are so awfully dumb. Dumb hairy big children. Maybe if you'd stop seeing women as aliens and talk to them (genuinely talk to them) once, this would become clear to you.

>>>/tumblr/

Why is /lit/ so full of roasties?

>>7774070
Tell me about it. Men want a mother during the day and a whore during the night. It's perverse.

Women are however not "dangerous", that's ridiculous. That's just the end result of all love: leaving you vulnerable. Men are incapable of seeing the other perspective. Mostly because they just don't care, I believe.

>>7774089

>yak yak yak yak yak yak

Back to the kitchen with you

>>7774080
Roasties is now going on my filter list

>>7774089
He was raised by a single mother for most of his childhood and had many female friends (though very few romances, none of which was fruitful in the least). It's silly to assert that he did not see a woman's perspective any more poorly than a woman sees a man's perspective.

The one woman who he loved the most, Salome, claimed that he was among the most sensitive, feminine men she had ever known.

>>7774097
ROAST
BEEF

>>7774101
Read The Second Sex.

>>7774089
>Mostly because they just don't care
They just assume they already do, much in the same way as you assume you understand the male perspective.

>>7774128

She is roast beef for god sake you little white knighting cuckold, why are you taking her opinion seriously?

>>7774030
Eh meh. I'm gay and have female friends. I don't even have a dog in the race that straight men do because I don't have an incentive to get worked up over what women are or aren't.

What he says still sounds really accurate.

>>7774141
please be my bf

>>7774128
>They just assume they already do
Except they clearly don't. Men consonantly complain how they don't understand women, what alien creatures women are.

>>7774152
Because they constantly have their preconceptions broken.

>>7774158

Only cuckold men that have delusional fantasies, red-pilled men know the truth.

>>7774158
Funnily, I never have mine broken.

>>7774089
>Women are however not "dangerous", that's ridiculous.
t. nonthreatening "woman"

>>7774164
About their behavior, or their perspective?

>>7774181
Both.

>>7774181

t. Roast Beef

>>7774196
Please stop. You are upsetting a lot of people

>>7774192
So because their behavior is predictable, you think you understand their perspective?

>>7774205

holy fucking shit.

I almost couldn't hear you over the flapping sound your labia makes.

>>7774196
>>7774205
Pathetic samefagging

>>>/arcanine/

>>7774030

>talk to them (genuinely talk to them) once

But it's really scary

>>7774208
Yes. But behavior in the wider sense: everything men say.
And not only to me in person, but in any source where there is no need for them to be dishonest. On the internet, in literature, wherever.

>>7774089
>Men want a mother during the day and a whore during the night.
Love this bait

>>7774245

It was written by roast beef, obviously worthless trash

>>7774245

don't listen to this roastie whore anon

>>7774298
>Men want a mother during the day and a whore during
What does this even mean? They want someone to love, and also fuck? Why make it sound of Freudian?

Isn't that what women want as well?

>>7774303
lions, of course.

>>7774249
>>7774298
Why did you delete the first post and then make another?

>>7774303
everyone knows lionesses do the hunting. so the lions would win because everyone knows they'd be just like, i'mma soak you all sun and i'mma not care, my bitches bringing home some antelope tonight and i got to train for the nap i'm having after that. stupid question desu

>>7774303
You shouldn't love someone as though they're your mother. You shouldn't need or want a mother at an adult age.

>>7774316

That post was just some roastie that was trying to be intellectual with freud.

>>7774316
ya where does the mother thing you keep talking about come from though?
>>7774320
not a woman
also:
>freud
>intellectual
lel

>>7774320
okay, anon, i get you're french, but why are you so sure this guy is british? and calling him out for trying to be intellectual with freud is a bit rich coming from the country that produced lacan.

>>7774303
>sun is 2 octillion tons
>1 trillion lions
change the math and you'll have a more viable question.

>>7774322
Literally all experiences with men, ever.

>>7774329

>yak yak yak yak

>>>/kitchen/

>>7774329
Couldn't you argue that women are looking for a daddy surrogate in the same way. It's like you took the Freud meme seriously.

>>7773436
This one got me good

>>7774338
>>>/r9k/

Please leave you pathetic virgin

>>7774349

Using virgin as an insult, why would you do this?

>>7774338
>>7774349
Samefagging again.

>>7774336
At times, some women. But they always revolt simultaneously, find it disgusting. Men are content with having a mother as a lover.

The red pill theory was one thing right:
To put a focus on the fact that women are always in demand by someone, always have access to sex with some guy (not having to do any work for it, merely overcoming their fears).

Discussions about heuristics on who does a better job at X and Y, who is more shallow, if they don't read for the content, who is more intelligent, who is providing more value ... that comes all second to how peoples experience in the world is.

As you can't put aside sex and the rules of demand, those questions are meaningless. You can't compare.

>>7774360
I've heard this kind of statement before, and my rationale for why girls end up thinking is as follows: your woman will see something wrong in the relationship, start nagging, and berating you to try to get you to "fix" the "problem", and then realize she's acting like your "mother" and blame YOU for it. It's some kind of crazy mental gymnastics.

>>7774237
>men are so simple tbqh, and i'm so le complicated and complex and le randum and unpredictable hehe !

>>7774360
>let me suck up all your cummies daddie

All things considered, Nietzsche did come up with some pretty sick burns.

>"Women are considered deep - why? Because one can never discover any bottom to them. Women are not even shallow."

>>7775234
You are one determined shitposter

>>7775264
>misogynists not being the shitposters

You aren't fooling anyone

>>7775290
m8, if you're seeing nothing but Gor threads, you're looking --really-- hard for Gor threads

>>7775295
what? There was a raid of misogynist threads a bit ago but they all get deleted

>>7775304
and i'm sure you had no part at all in it and went and talked about books elsewhere. this is insulting to my this is insulting bait folder.jpeg

>>7775290
More famous misogynistic authors than sjw ones for a reason desu

>>7775341
since when has social justice been considered a bad thing?

>>7773436

>>7775234
>fake redpill trolling gets deleted
>start fake sjw trolling
You were a little subtle about it, and it's a step above the average troll on /lit/ these days but this is still some pretty basic shit man. Try a little harder.

>>7775386
> The doctrine of equality! ... But there is no more venomous poison in existence: for it appears to be preached by justice itself, when it is actually the end of justice ... "Equality to the equal; inequality to the unequal" - that would be true justice speaking: and its corollary, "never make the unequal equal".

> The craving for equality can express itself either as a desire to pull everyone down to our own level (by belittling them, excluding them, tripping them up) or as a desire to raise ourselves up along with everyone else (by acknowledging them, helping them, and rejoicing in their success).

Here is your (You)

>>7774065
Well that's simply because all women are whores with enough carnal knowledge to have a decent grasp on a good cross-section of men

>>7774106
Well memed

Does Nietzsche transcend the meaning/unmeaning dichotomy?

>be me
>click on her image to make it bigger
>tilt my head to the same angle as hers
>realize it was the realist interaction I've had with a woman this calendar year

>>7774065
I was referring to the philosophers, not the women, stupid.

>>7774360
>Men are content with having a mother as a lover.
Yes, but they don't actively seek it out. They have to be content with it because many women turn themselves into a mother. Because their inability to intimately communicate, actually communicate, their problems causes them to treat men like children when they try to address those problems.

I think that it would be a gross misunderstanding to take what Nietzsche is saying here at face-value as some misogynistic dismissal of women trying to be intellectuals. Note that he says that THE PERFECT WOMAN should 'perpetrate' literature. I'm not sure, but I think he may say something similar of men; not all men can or should be men of immense learning or artistic passion, but they should all perpetrate at least a small sin in the form of reading. I think it's obvious that what Nietzsche has in mind here is an Aristotelian conception of perfection-through-balance. But of course, imbalance is sometimes desirable as well, as I'm sure Nietzsche would be eager to point out, given how he wanted to go into the mountains and conceive of a new ethics or whatever.

For example, Othello, if he his tragic flaw had never been exploited by Iago, would have been a paradigm of balance, and yet there would be no story without the hellish jealousy of Othello. Well, a similar story goes for Cleopatra and, to use a real-life story, Virginia Woolf. Obviously, Virginia Woolf's life is not Shakespearean in scope, but without the imbalance which caused her bad ending, she would never have been memorable, and memorability is a big thing for Nietzsche.

So in a sense I may even agree with Nietzsche: it would be good if the average woman wished to be noticed for being literary (although, of course, if the average woman (or average person) read significantly, then there would no longer be much reason to take notice). But something similar may be said of men too. I think it will be generally agreed that Leopold Bloom is the consummate image of what the Modern Man should be. He, also, 'perpetrates literature.' He is not a philosopher or an artist, but yet he keeps an eye on the worlds of philosophy and art and science, half-yearning to be in one of them, but with the wisdom that the choosing of the one means the foregoing of much of the broader pleasures of life. And, though I admit I may be way off the mark, I think that's how Nietzsche's saying most women should be, though the ones most cherished by posterity are those with some sort of imbalance.

This is all disregarding the fact that Nietzsche, I'm sure, is in part expressing a personal preference which is not more rational than 'I dig chubbies.'

>>7775492
For this I'm glad that I have a sister that lives with me-- I get her perspective, some lens to view the hypothetical feminine perspective as a whole. Unfortunately this has led me to view incest porn and I hate myself more every day.

>>7775608
>hypothetical feminine perspective as a whole
Careful anon, you're treading into spook territory.

>>7775608
God, men are vile.

Thanks 4chan for constantly reminding me I should move out to the forest and get a cat and a dildo and kill myself before I hit my 30s.

>>7772903
Here he's talking about the perfect woman as woman, the most womanly woman who acts womanly. This is not to be taken as Nietzche saying that he wants female humans to do this.

>>7775626
You're welcome.

>>7775628
Nietzsche talking about an idealized version of something?

>>7775626
Please do and let us know how it works out

>>7775626
I was joking :^)

>>7775626
>God, men are vile
/thread

>>7775649
How would I do that? I'd be dead.

>>7775660
Do as you're told womyn!