/lit/ - Literature

Let's wait until the series is finished before we start calling it the greatest ever.

At this point, one of my friends and I have a wager about what will come out first. Dance with Dragons or Half Life: Episode 3. Shit really sucks.

>>734881
Any suggestions for a complete fantasy series you think is better?

>>734886
I loled

>>734881

>implying it will be finished

>>734892
Hope he doesn't pull an R Jordan.

>>734878
To be fair, GRRM didn't CREATE Wild Cards, he just helped as well as edited them.

>>734889

None, but if the series never even gets finished I'm not calling it the best.

>>734908
Fair enough.

I just like this series a lot cause of the depth of all the characters. Very diverse and each is easy to relate to, yet damaged. Very cool.

>>734878 HERP MY HP MARY SUE FIC IS 8000 PAGES AND I GOT IT DONE IN A MONTH WTF GRRM

>>734923 I just like this series a lot cause of the death of all the characters.

>>734925
wut

From last night

>>734931
Go back to /b/

>>734935
Dude. Awesome.

>>734935
Also, where is the art from?

>>734889
Malazan Book of the Fallen is two books from being fully available in the US, check it out.

>>734952
Thanks man. One of my friend suggested this too.

>>734952

Malazan is pretty shit though.

>>734951
Took a while from different sources, but I think a few are from the Fantasy Flight Cards and some others are from a deviantart guy named amoka

>>734989
If you mean it's The Shit then fuck yeah.

The parts with Karsa Orlong kind of bored me, though. But Anomander Rake was badass, and Shadowthrone is my fucking hero.

>>734994
Its a shame that thread bumped past 15. It started with some anon posting this pic, and everyone tore it to pieces (from the font to the alignments). It became a community effort to place more fitting characters in the slots without so much attention to the main POV families. If I recall correctly, the last debate was if Sandor was NE or CN, but at the time of the thread's fizzle, most everyone seemed to agree.

>>734994
Ah okay. Also, barriston wasn't entirely good. He lied to Dany. I'd put eddard there. And the hound isn't totally neutral, he's mostly just looking out for his own ass.

>>735018

No, I mean it's unnecessarily long, tries too hard to make its characters 'cool', tries too hard to create an intriguing story line where leaving things unexplained or unsaid for books on end would be fine but is not. The author simply bit off more than he could chew.

>>735027
The only thing I agree on is that he pointlessly tries to mindfuck the reader the first two and half books. I think the end to the second book had me going "LOL WUT" for a good while.

>>735031

It doesn't matter whether you agree or not, the series is mediocre at best.

>>735027
So basically what you want are big Tolkien/Jordanesque infodumps where someone just tells a bunch of shit that's going on and then stuff happens. Cool.

>>735047

Yes, that is exactly what I want. Nice, no?

>>735027

sounds like GRRM to me

>>735020
We came to the conclusion that Barristan beat out Eddard for his part in Robert's Rebellion, either truly fathering a bastard or lying about it, hiding the message of Lysa about the death of Jon Arryn, and defiance of Robert in the matters of the wolf Nymeria, The Hand's Tourney, and sending Beric after Gregor. If anything, Barristan's faults were not dying for Aerys and calling himself Arstan to Dany (which wasnt a total lie and he was also in evaluation mode of her...to see if she was a fit leader. His deception was only over a matter of weeks, while Eddard's concerning Jon were over 14 years.)

>>735057
Hmm. Okay I concede, lol. What about Baelor the blessed?

>>735055

To a certain extent but worse since Erikson basically goes out of his way to make sure you're completely out of the loop for about 3 books

>>735020
Honestly, the one I thought nobody would buy was Jaqen as Neutral Neutral. But we all agreed that he was just performing a job, regardless of the political turmoil it might cause. He had no qualms either way about killing a henchman or a king.

>>735068
So he's like a reverse David Lynch but where the last halves of David Lynch's films are always confusing the first several books in Erikson's series are always confusing

>>735065
LOL!! OK you may have a point with that. But the problem is that we can just as easily put characters like Aemon the Conqueror as both Lawful Good or Lawful Evil depending on which side of the Andal Invasion you're on. We had to stick to the characters of the time otherwise we might have Arthur Dayne as LG/LE and Eddard as the same. I would like to come up with a tree type chart for this some day.

OP here, so who is your favorite character. I'd go with Tyrion.

>>735103

Gregor Clegane was my homeboy up until he died.

Ned Stark was my bro. I was devastated when he died.

I'm also enjoying Sansa's chapters, now that she's learning intrigue from Littlefinger. Cash as hell.

Jaime is also shaping up to be awesome.

>>735099
Yea I see what you mean and that's what I meant earlier about the depths of the characters. You could probably argue the alignments forever.

>>735110
I shat brix when he died. I wanted to assrape Joff. I lol'd when he died. D

>>735110
>Gregor Clegane was my homeboy up until he died.

Splaining to do...

>>735103

I'm a Tyrion fan too. I also like Arya, Jon, and Sandor Clegane. Jaime's good too. In fact, the only character I don't like so much is Bran. But Bran's chapters seem to be getting more interesting, so I might like him more in ADWD.

>>735113
It's the one thing in this series that really stands out to me: nobody is truly innocent. I used to hate Jamie until his POV popped into the series and then later, I even started sympathizing with Cersei. Hell, varys even comes off as an OK guy after he explains how he became a eunuch.

>>735128
Arya's chapters were annoying till the 3rd book. Awesome as shit when she gets to Bravos (?). I also like Margaery, I hope she gets a POV in ADWD. Also, WTF is up with Rickon? And is coldhands jons uncle?

Finally: prediction, the three heads of the dragon are tyrion, jon and dany.

Though he is not a POV character, I was honestly touched by the kindness and almost paternal instinct that Sandor showed. Even to Sansa, who i thought he might loli-rape, it seemed as if he saw her as the fair ladies he dreamed about when he played knights before his brother burned his face...like she was some memory of childhood that he longed for. With Arya, he was gruff, but he led her from danger, protected her, and even instructed her. Sandor needs a moment in this series where he atones. At the end of AFFC, he is in some monestary, but that can't be enough. Stranger still kicks and bites in the stalls like the soul of vengeance that must still be a part of Sandor. If he can drop the heads of Roose and Ramsay Bolton at the feet of Bran, he would have repented in my eyes.

>>735140

I liked her ACOK chapters. Also, I agree about your prediction for the dragon's three heads.

>>735119

>EXPLAIN THIS BULLSHIT!

Ser Gregor was fucking badass. Every single thing he did only impressed this upon me even further.

Like when he went to an inn, fucked the innkeep's daughter, and then had his men fuck her on the table in front of the innkeep? Then PAID him?

Jesus Christ, I can't DEAL with this level of bad-ass! I wanted him to wreck that faggot Oberyn - which he did, but he kinda failed and ended up becoming undead.

>>735156
A cok, I loled

>>735140
LOL. Agreed on the dragon's heads. I was the one forcing Tyrion for weeks on this non-receptive crowd.

GRRM said it was very difficult to write POVs for Bran because he couldn't get into the mind of a 7 year old (something like that), but it was different in doing so with Arya because he basically crucified her. Rickon was the hardest of all for him since what reasoning can a 3 year old bring to the table. Spiriting him away just gets him out of the picture.

>>735129

>I even started sympathizing with Cersei.

I was grossly satisfied with Cersei's demise.

Her POV chapters only made me wish for her death all the more. They made for some juicy reads(MYRISH SWAMPS).

>>735162
His master, Tywin, did the same thing to Tysha, Tyrion's wife at 13. Dog is trained by master.

>>735162

I forgot to add that I also liked The Greatjon.

He was like a chill version of Gregor.

Still a huge armorclad knight that would wreck your shit, but he could take it easy and party with his bros.

He also didn't want to kill the fuck out of shit all the time.

I <3 this thread.

>>735176

Did I mention that I greatly enjoyed the way Tywin was running shit?

He had everyone dancing to the beat of his drum. Right up until Tyrion put a bolt in his crotch.

He sorta deserved it, though.

>>735178
I like how Robb got him to be his man.

>>735183
In the end, Tywin Lannister did not shit gold.

>>735186

Dude, that was awesome.

I can barely wait for the TV series just so that I can see that in HD. Fucking. Awesome.

>>735191
Any word on when that's gonna air? I heard early next year, I think.

>>735173
Don't get me wrong, I was too. It was one of the few times I actually did a spit take when reading. In fact, I remember reading that scene over and over when Kettleblack said "aye, I fucked a Queen...that one". And the transition sentence after that was something like her thinking "I need Osmund" (cant remember the exact name). It seemed so much like my last girlfriend that I grinned for days.

>>735192

it might actually be September 2011, so don't hold your breath.

>>735183
I liked his aura. Where someone would say something but his only response was to stare them down. But I didn't like his plotting. Even Tyrion had differences with his father over strategies in dealing with the northmen armies and Tywin ALWAYS miscalculated. One glaring miscalculation may be in this: Tywin made plans with Jeyne Westerling's mother to ensure that Jeyne wouldn't get pregnant. Jeyne's mom assures Jamie later that she had given an abortifacent to her to make sure she was childless...but after jamie speaks to her about marrying a son to an illegitimate daughter of Lannister (Joy?), the look she gave Jamie made me feel as though she hadn't actually followed the command but was waiting to see the offer. Jeyne may, may in fact, be carrying Robbs child, and has at the end of AFFC, passed from captured Riverrun out of the grasp of the Lannisters.

>>735198
A few major cast changes (Catelyn and Danaerys) recently may have pushed it back. Meanwhile, you guys should watch the Starz series Spartacus. Holy shit the series finale seemed total Red Wedding.

>>735198
Makes sense. They changed some key cast roles. New Dany:

http://emiliaclarke.com/

>>735213
Sticking to my gut feeling about ASOAIF,
>Even Tyrion had differences with his (alleged) father over strategies in ...

fixed

>>735226
Wait what?

>>735223
they never gave a reason for the original's departure, but speculation is that she agreed to some other series that filmed at the same time and/or her parents finally realized that a 14 year old was going to be interracially mounted.

>>735223
Seems a bit too old to be Dany.

>>735230
You really want to hear this out?

>>735237
Yessir

>>735235
I really think, for morality's sake, they are going to play the age card a little bit differently in the series than they do the books. I am betting dany will be 18 in the series.

>>735241
You really don't, it's some bullshit theory that Tyrion is actually Aegon (Rhaegar's firstborn son who was killed by Gregor). At least R+L=J makes sense. Tyrion being Aegon does not.

>>735244
If I don't get to see 13 year old Dany getting pounded by horselord cock I will be very disappointed.

>>735221
Recasting Catelyn was a good choice but Tazmin started growing on me as Dany.

>>735103

Tyrion is a terrifying little man. As Aemon said, he truly is a giant. As long as he is alive, he will cause ripples in the fates of more than a few. What I find most intriguing is that he doesn't seem to truly know what he wants yet. When he finally finds that, I don't see much that can stop him in a timely manner outside of outright killing him. So far he has shown a knack for dodging death though.

Arya will do something great. It may kill her, it may be horrendous, but I can't see her failing to leave some serious impact(s) on the world. Unless of course she gets vengeance, and just kind of disappears. Just don't see that as likely. She is going to do something.

Those would have to be my top picks.

>>734886
Now this is amusing. I have the same bet running among 2 of my friends. I wager the book will come out first, but fuck if I know. 50 dollars riding on it.

>>735259
In front of the whole khalasar too!

>>735265
Dance with Dragons will ship in a combined boxset with Duke Nukem Forever and Shenmue III.

>>735265
Have you read the preview chapters?

>>735266

In front of the whole fucking Khalasar.

Cash? Definitely.

I think I was completely sold on GRRM then.

>>735279
I also like his liberal use of the word "cunt"

>>735241
I'll try to summarize because when I proposed this a few weeks back, the thread ran 300 posts long.

Tyrion is not a Lannister.

He may not be a full blooded Targaryen, but he has Targ blood.

1. His interest in Dragons. Yes, this doesn't seem imprtant in the grand scheme of things, but of ANY of the characters, save maybe Measter Aemon, he is the only one that was deliberately noted as walking below Maegor's Holdfast to jam torches in their mouths, borrow books from Winterfell and read passages on the properties of dragonbone.

2. He is described as having one black eye and one green eye: the colors of the Blackfyre Rebellion (see the Dunk and Egg tales). His hair is also describes as being so blonde it might be considered white.

3. His father denies him his rightful claim to Casterly Rock. Tywin does not give a reason other than the fact that he is a dwarf. Marry this idea that Tywin absolutely despises whores. Now it is possible that this may be because of the whore who wore his mother's jewelry when his father died, but the open end here is that the Lannisters were very close to the Targs during Tywin's reign as Hand to Aerys. Aerys dismissed the idea of a Lannister (Cersei) marrying a Targ (Rhaegar) because the Lannisters were looked upon as a servant household...there may be a message here deeper. (continued)

>>735279
>reading a AFFC
>Myrish swamp
>my face

>>735291
>>735291
So wait? Joanna isn't his mom? Didn't she die in childbirth?

>>735291
>(continued)
>no new posts

It takes 10 minutes to type this all up!? Long ass theory.

>>735291
(continued)
It might be quite plausible that Tyywin plied Aerys with HIS OWN WIFE to cement this marriage, then looked upon his own wife as a whore when this proposition--advanced by Tywin--was deflected. Maybe Joanna Lannister didn't die during childbirth, but was killed after, when a Targ descendant was secured.

4. Whenever someone mentions to Tyrion that he is Tywin's son, he responds "am I? be sure to remind my father."

5. Jamie is looked upon as a Kingslayer. This is a severe curse on itself, but less of a curse on honor than the events of the Red Wedding. Yet above both of these, KINslaying is the most reviled. IF Tyrion is truly a Targ, he never slayed his father, thus absolving him of "Kinslaying"--this is a fairly large plot hole to walk throuh. One I don't believe GRRM slipped in by mistake.

6. In a Jon chapter in the first book, Jon gets drunk and leaves the feasting hall. Tyrion talks with him a moment and says something along the lines of "you're a bastard. Don't let this title hurt you. Embrace it, armor yourself in it, and you can never be hurt". Jon looks at him when Tyrion re-enters the feasting hall and (again paraphrasing), "his shadow made him stand taller than any King".

>>735314
Her name was Lannister. She married in. He's sayin he's got Targaryen seed.

Also Rhaegar and Lyanna are Jon's folks.

>>735315
Jesus chirst, man! i am a writer, not a typist!

>>735332
I see. And if he is indeed a Targ it'd make sense he may be one of the heads of the dragon cause of their wacky incest. HOLY SHIT! Was Jons mom maybe a targ too????

So, why is GRRM an asshole?

>>735346
Jon's mom is almost certainly Lyanna Stark. His father is almost certainly Rhaegar Targaryen

>>735336
Nigga wuuuut?

>>735351
Evidence?

>>735347
10 years for three books, and he's fat and old.

Well, no, 10 years for the last two books. Five since the second of those. We're waiting on this new one, the green in OP's pic.

>>735293

>reading AFFC

>LEAKING BREASTS
>FAT PINK MAST
>ON A BOAT
>SAM CHAPTER

My face

>>735352
Loads of evidence all over the place. One of my favorites being the dehydrated and incarcerated Ned not counting him among his children when thinkin' about his brood while in his cell.

Also, from the flashbacks, it sounds like Lyanna died of childbirth.

>>735351
To add, Jon has some dream about a dragon bursting forth from the ashes of Winterfell. Now in the D&E tales, Aegon and Duncan travel north to the Wall at the end of The Sworn Sword. Could Aegon have squirreled away a dragon's egg in the crypts under Wintefell? There is a hot springs there that could possibly promote the hatching of a dragon. And one of the prophecies says that a dragon will be born of salt and stone. This is mostly attributed to Dany (being from sea-lashed Dragonstone), but also from Winterfell overrun by the Iron-Men, sons of the salty sea.

>>735362
Shit was so cash.

>>735364
So what connection did she have to Rhaegar?

>>735358

That doesn't make him an asshole, if he wanted to just churn out generic fantasy drivel that would take no time at all

>>735357
http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Entry/Who_are_Jon_Snows_parents/

>>735372
One through the penis and vagina. Also blood through Jon. I imagine to get away with it, she cried rape or something and that's partially why Robert wanted to kill the fuck out of him.

>>735364
And not counting him among his children when recovering the wolf pups...though there is an extra, WHITE HAIRED

>>735389
Robert claimed "rape". Ned stood by, clenching his teeth.

>>735389
Hmmm interesting. GRRM always mentions he looks more like a stark than Cat's other kids, aside from Arya. I think it prob has more to do with his lineage than random banter.

>>735391
That was Jon himself saying the wolves were for the trueborn

>>735372
wat

Have you read the books? Rhaegar named her the Queen of Love and Beauty at the Harrenhal tourney *even though he was already married) when Jamie was made a Kingsguard. Then later he 'carries her off' sparking Robert's Rebellion.

The theory goes along the line saying that Lyanna and Rhaegar eloped willingly, fucked like rabbits during the Rebellion at the Tower of Joy (Rhaegar was missing for nearly the entire Rebellion, only showing up at the end). Lyanna gets pregnant with Jon and dies giving birth to him. There's all sorts of clues in the books like thf lower that Lyanna loved being with her at the time of death (they were also in wreath Rhaegar gave her at the tourney), Kingsguard being present at the Tower of Joy even though Rhaegar was already dead and they had pressing duties elsewhere like protecting Viserys and Dany. Kingsguard are sworn to protect the royal line, they'd only be there if Lyanna and her baby were part of the family. There's other clues but I can't remember them all off the top of my head.

>>735402
And all of those were shades of Winterfell grey. The lone abandoned forgotten one whimpering in the snow was the white haired pup later named Ghost. I see some symbolism.

>>735406
Moreover, Lyanna and Rhaegar go off looking for the Knight of the Laughing Tree after the tournament of Harrenhal. Therein, they place each other into direct contact before Lyanna's death. Skipped those Bran chapters?

>>735254

That can't be possible since Aegon would be much younger than Tyrion. GRRM has hinted that Aegon is still alive though. I've heard a theory that Sam Tarly is Aegon, but I call BS.

Lyanna was fond of blue roses. Dany, in the warlock house, sees a vision of a great wall of ice with a single ble rose growing out of it.

>>735406
Oh fuck I was thinking of Wylla for some reason. Nevermind.

>>735411
Good point.

>>735416
Think Aerys, not Aegon.

I am not saying Tyrion is Aegon. I am saying that Tyrion has Targ blood. I honestly think Tywin was dick enough to have his wife sleep with the mad king to use that as barter to get Cersei to marry Rhaegar. Otherwise, his distaste for whores seems far too out of place.

Needless to say, I really love this series. It is one of the first that I have seen that humanized Kings.

>>735368
now THAT is interesting

>>735430
>I honestly think Tywin was dick enough to have his wife sleep with the mad king to use that as barter to get Cersei to marry Rhaegar.

That goes against everything we've heard about the dynamic between Joanna and Tywin. It's possible (I use this term loosely) but very unlikely I think.

>>735430
Would he though? I thought that someone said that his love for Joanna was unrivaled and he turned to stone face motherfucker after she died, hence why he despises tyrion so much.

>>735411
"Ghost" as in a spirit long thought dead. Love it!

>>735441
And what have you really heard and from who in what circumstances?

The only person who said anything about her was Tywin, and you have to discount that given this possibility.

>>735445
Man, awesome. The insights you guys are providing me with keep getting better.

>>735443
The same man ordered the Red Wedding

>>735455
As upsetting as it was, that was one of the best chapters ever. On par with Arya's last chapter, Dany hatching dragons and Tyrion killing Tywin.

>>735441
yeah he maintained such an honorable memory of Joanna that he had no problems sleeping with Shea and allowing her to wear the necklace of the Hand on the very day he died.

>>735455
There's a huge difference between taking out enemies and giving your own wife to man you know is insane. He did fucked up shit to Tyrion but he never really viewed Tyrion as a Lannister and a son. He never did anything truly heinous to Cersei or Jaime. It's clear that he takes care of his own and doing something like that Joanna doesn't fit with his character, IMO.

>>735441
Actually, after Tyrion's condemnation, Tywin STILL wanted to see Tyrion to the Wall. Why bother if you already have Jamie as a son and you hate the dwarf that (allegedly) killed your wife? Tyrion is a backpocket poker chip that he needs to keep alive, but not care about.

>>735469
A Lannister always pays his debts.

>>735465
Sleeping with Shea isn't as big a break from his character. Sleeping with a whore years and years after your wife is dead isn't really a big deal.

>>735471
He had already dismissed Jamie as a son at this point.

>>735469
Consider this: Maggy the Frog predicts Cersei's death at the hand of the valonquar--the little brother. Cersei sees this as meaning Tyrion will kill her. If Tyrion isn't her brother, she dies at the hands of Jamie, her twin born just after her, holding her toe. Which seems more likely considering that Tyrion is trying to get the fuck out of Westeros and Jamie was summoned to defend her in a trial of battle?

>>735476
Even after his legendary disdain for them?

>>735485
Tyrion could still be her brother and not kill her. To fulfill the prophecy (if it even has to be fulfilled) all Jaime needs to do is kill her.

Ah well. Not gonna change any minds here. I am just trying to point out some plot loopholes. When the series finishes in 2035, we can go back to these screencaps.

Night guys, I need to fill by belly with some lemon cakes, eel, and bouled onions.

>>735485
OH SHHHHH--

>>735492
or not her brother at all...just saying

>>735498
Night Sansa, enjoy your lemon cakes.

>>735485
Yeah that tops the wine jug for me. I am with ya.

>>735485
Which means the 'younger, more beautiful girl' that will usurp her is quite obviously Dany. A shame, I really gained a lot of respect for Margaery when she called Cersei a bitch and a whore. She seemed to have most of the queenly properties Cersei lacked too.

>>735515
What about Myrcella?

What do you think Doran plans are regarding his vengeance to House Lannister? It was pretty obvious it has something to do with the only known Targ, Dany, ("Fire and blood")

>>735521
I think the Martells in the following novels will be the Tyrells of the previous.

>>735556
I was thinking the same. They got a lot more recognition towards the more recent of the series.

My mind is sore. I love you guys.

>>735580
I was thinking the same.

>>735556
They are well positioned. Quentin is sailing to Dany, Arellas/Sarella is fucking around in Oldtown with the mystics, They have Myrcella and can proclaim her Queen under Dornish Law, and the Tyrells are about to capitulate against the Lannisters based on Cersei's actions.

>>735590
Shits going down!!!

>>735590
This may mean Dany would have the power of Dorne on her side the minute she lands in Westeros, holy shit. The Tyrells could switch sides too.

>>735626
And, if Jon's lineage is exposed, the North as well since he was stated to the Lords of the North as their true King on the even to Robb's death. The picture widens.

>>735411
Sansa's dead wolf indicates that she is no longer a true Stark. More symbolism.

>>735666
if Jon is declared King in the North and/or Jeyne Westerling has Robb's child, Sansa has no claim. Fuck her, bury that whore.

>>735666
But she looked just like a Tully.

>>735681
She wouldn't have a claim anyhow. Bran and Rickon are still alive.

>>735685
Right but nobody thinks so.

>>735666
Wait so who the fuck are her parents.

>>735685
Bran and Rickon have as much claim to the seat of Winterfell as Dany has to the Iron Throne. They'll have to take it by force, more than likely.

>>735682
>>735734

Think more along the lines of she doesn't have the right kind of personality/attitude to be a Stark.

She loses the right to call herself a Stark when she becomes a whiney whimpering little jelly muffin of crying early on, though now she's abandoned her Stark identity pretty much completely under Littlefinger.

To me, the most erotic person in the series is Meera. Can't explain why. I wish Bran regains his leg and doggy styles her for the rest of the series.

>>735749
wut....

It's gonna suck if Sansa becomes an antagonist.

Also, naming conventions, how the fuck do they work? Only people with names ending in "ys" as far as I've seen are Dragons and a spider.

>>735749
Poor Bran, I couldn't bear to feel what it would be like to be sterile. It's a good thing he lost his ability to reproduce before puberty though, it would have crushed him even more.

About to finish the fourth book. I'm going to need some more good fantasy. Any suggestions?

Also, has anyone read Joe Abercrombie's novels? Starting with "The Blade Itself"

I though they were pretty good, and if you guys like GRRM you may like these. Not quite up to GRRM's caliber, but highly entertaining nonetheless.

Brutal, slick, and sometimes really fucking funny.

>>735880

I couldn't get through Joe Abercrombie's books. Probably because some dumbass marked out all the swear words with a sharpie in the used copy I bought.

>>735892
Damn, that sucks man.

>>735880

Read the Night Angel trilogy by Brent Weeks.

>>734931
God fucking damn it, I just started reading the series, I will never forgive you.

Littlefinger's by far my favorite character. I love that magnificent bastard.

>>735892
Damn. What an idiot.

I've always been surprised at how much hate people have for Danny. I mean, sure she starts out as a character that seems to exists solely to provide motives for some other characters, but she is becoming much more than that.

Anyone care to explain why they hate her so much? At worst I was apathetic towards her.

Still have to say Tyrion and Arya are my favorites though.

>>737818
I guess cause her character is so focused on getting the iron throne while others hve a lot of random things going on.

>>737818

I dunno, maybe it's because she's a bit wishy-washy? A lot of the other characters are really exaggerated, larger than life (Littlefinger is super crafty, Cersei a super bitch, etc) and Danny is just sort of... normal-ish, in character terms by comparison?

Compared to the others she just wasn't nearly as interesting to read.

>>737866
I love her character. At least in the second and third books and end of the first. She is a bit wishy washy at first but gets more solid later.

And come on! Not interesting? Fucking dragons man. Imminent betrayal. Three heads of the dragon.

OP here. Can't believe this thread is still alive. Been asleep for like 7 hours. I guess I'm too used to the quick turnover on /b/. Much better comments and insights on here. You guys kick ass!

>>737898
/lit/ better than /b/?
really?

>>737922
Yes, for actually getting good conversation on a book.

For tehlulz, nothing anywhere on the interwebs beats /b/.

>>737818
I always looked forward to Dany's chapters, as they were invariably filled with wondrous places and happenings. She and Jon offer ideal respite from the horrible depressing shit happening to everyone else, as well as the medieval European setting and politicking. And she's a lovely loli/jailbait with unique colouring. What's not to love?

>>738164
Rule 34???

/r/ing the "A Thread of Trolls" image

>>738164
Dany cahpters are shit. The only thing good about them Are teh side characters like Jorah and Drago. Same goes for Jon chapters. ONly good for introducing Tyrion, others, and the wildlings.

>>738197
>Implying that Jon's chapters aren't badass during the Battle of the Wall and his initial training.

>>737818
samefag here.

I certainly see where you guys are coming from with her being wishy washy, but she's not even 16 yet. Most of the other characters who are significant figures are years ahead of her physically, and emotionally, let alone mentally. Hell, Jon has had years of experience she has not.

I feel that the constant abuse by her brother, as well as the situations she was forced into, acted as shackles to prevent her true development. Now that she is free of them she is able to blossom into her true figure. A figure which has enormous potential to send ripples across the world, while standing on the knife's edge of success.

Was she changed by the abuse? Certainly, but without it she is now becoming a player in the game, rather than a mere piece. The transition from one to the other is interesting.
I can't say that I am interested in her character because of the dragons though. Don't get me wrong they are interesting, but they are not really related to why I like her character.

>>738242
Yea agreed man. She has lots of potential for the next three.

Also, that pic is exactly what I pictures Aerys to look like.

>>735019
Moar like this!

>>738197
>>738235
Fuck you, Jon goes from emo to hero in just a couple months

FIGHT OF THE CENTURY:

The Unsullied vs. Bridgeburners from Erikson's Malazan series

The series is original in its violence and noirish hardcore realism. Otherwise it's just another retelling of Tudors type aristocratic story. There are enough details and side stories that interesting things happen but they are squelched by the general failure of the whole project.

>>739067

I'm dismissing this as a troll post unless you can adequately explain why the this series is a failure.

I understand that some people may not enjoy it, and I am perfectly fine with a series that borrows from other works (be honest, what doesn't these days?).

If you don't like the series, feel free to explain why.

Any word on ADWD release date?

>>739594

Same as Episode 3. When it is done.

>>739594
April 27th, 2011

>>739424
I could understand that there would be reasons for people to dislike ASOIAF.

For example, the names of the books themselves, excluding the first one, are pretty misleading when taken at face value. Some may expect a constant flow of big epic battles and such with names like from the latter 3 books, and be disappointed to have their anticipations shattered.

I honestly thing 'A Game of Thrones' is a more apt name for the series itself, the whole damn story revolves around the very concept.

>>740124
Yea I suppose. There were a fair amount of big battles but not a ton told from a POV and you hear about later.

>>739601
I do not believe you.

>>738172
Seconding 34 on Dany.

someone requested?

>>740463
wut. aside from a few differing opionions, it's been a fairly tame thread.

>>740489
i know, but

>>738179
wanted it

So, Arya went blind. Sucks because she is my favorite character, but I hope she makes up in badassery.

>>740899

I'm not convinced it's permanent. It's just a lesson.

>>740899
>>740899
I'm going to guess she went blind in the same way she went "dead" when she "got hit with an axe". It's just a cliffhanger, she'll be fine.

>>740545
Oh, lol. I'm a tard.

What the hell? This can't be the same thread that was up here two days ago.

>>741614
I thought it meant she was blind in the "Third Eye" because it was after she had the wolf dream. I thought that maybe her wolf died or something

>>741763
OP here and yes it is, lol. I've never seen a thread up so long on 4chan.

>>741804

This is /lit/. We're slow enough that we can keep some threads going for up to 5 days.

>>741609
Yea I think it's a step towards finishing her training. I'm really curious as to how her being an assassin is going to play out in the grand scheme of things.

howland reed makes an apperance, shit gets real.

so what about the gold company coming to dorne under the leadership of bittersteal the man who led the blackfyre rebellions, will they claim the throne with dorne?

so we have tyrells and lannisters claiming the throne with dany and now the gold company, with all the shit up north still needing to be sorted out and the boy littlefinger told sansa about at the end, gonna be one long game.

>>741818
>I'm really curious as to how her being an assassin is going to play out in the grand scheme of things.

I'm betting someone hires her to go after Dany.

>>741839

i doubt she will become a paid assassin like that, she is just training and somthing will happen to her which brings her back to westeros and give her a chance to kill the men she prays for every night she goes to sleep. maybe meet tyrion and varys in pentos?

>>741839
Oh snap. Never really thought of that before.

>>741845
Yea I always figured it'd be the guys in the prayers.

>>741839

makes no sence for her to go after dany, arya as a paid assassin doesnt fit in with her character, the people she has killed so far deserved it, only the guard in harranhaal stands out. even killing the guy from the black watch who was with sam deserved death by the hand of a stark for deserting the black.

>>741855
She joined an order of paid assassins, unless something happens to take her away from there, she'll kill who they damn well tell her to kill.

>>741877
Is it like a term of service or lifelong? Been a while since I read AFFC.

>>741609
>>741614

Oh yeah, I'm thinking and hoping it won't be permanent, but I'm still wondering how the blind chapters will be.

hey what do you guys expect from the TV show? hopes? fears?

>>742502

I desperately want it to be good but the script for the pilot was awful

Get this shit outta here!

>>742518
how awful?

>>742537

Google it and read it yourself

If you must know, Ned Stark has been altered to become one of "the greatest warriors" in the land, and all of the new scenes added in are awful, there's really no point to them other than gratuitous HBO sex fodder

It's to be expected considering that hack David Benioff (X-Men Legends, Troy, etc.) is the screenwriter, hopefully he's only writing the pilot

they added sex scenes and made Eddard more badass? I'm ok with that.

>>742580

Read the script yourself and tell me it's an improvement

>>742584
I can't read ;_;

>>742612


Why are you here?

To troll me?

>>742518
Link?

>>742518

Did we read the same script? For the most part, it was pretty damn faithful to the beginning of the book. In my opinion, the stuff they added fit in great. Some of it will work better for TV anyway.

>>742502
The cast is shaping up nicely so I'm hopeful. I wonder if they are doing 23 or 12 episode seasons. I think it's way too much to pack to 12 hours.

>>742628
http://www.graspingforthewind.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/GameofThrones.pdf

>>734881
Agreed! Have some fucking sense, people. There's like three successful fantasy series
that've been written in the past 15 years. Just because your choices within a niche of pop culture are limited does not make one of them the greatest 'ever.'

http://hubpages.com/hub/Top-10-Novels-Ive-Read

>>742674
but it makes it the greatest out of that niche, duh.

>>742752
and by definition that niche is not 'ever'

greatest series ever or GREATEST SERIES EVAR!!?!

>>742565

>If you must know, Ned Stark has been altered to become one of "the greatest warriors" in the land

ned was one the greatest warriors of the land, need i mention the tower of joy how he and howland reed killed the greatest swordsmen of the kingsguard

lazy? nah, spelunking through myrish swamps is harder then it sounds.

>>742961

Ned was the Wolf of the North.

The only reason he died was due to nasty, underhanded plotting. He was a more capable warrior than all of House Lannister combined into one. Even Jaime was scared shitless of him.

>>734878

He's busy making board games and visiting cons. Jesus Christ, get your shit together George.

>>742975
Figures that George would be on vacation at the Summer Islands instead of finishing his books.

>>742975

Oh man. Haters gonna hate.

funny but if they follow the book, we won't see Ned ever fighting anyone.

>>743146
They'll probably add some action and sex scenes, it's only natural for TV.

>>743159

>more sex scenes

What's wrong with the many sex scenes already in the book? Must there really be more?

>>743163
I actually prefered if they cut out a few. Too much stiff dwarf cock otherwise.

>>742976
I think Ned got lucky at the Tower of Joy. Howland Reed probably got hits in with poisoned weapons that weakened the three Kingsguard. Ned was very capable in battle but he wasn't on the same level that Dayne and Jaime and others were.

>>743182

MY GIANT OF LANNISTER!!111!!

>>743163
Plus the natural continuation of that thought is
>more poorly written sex scenes

>>743190
Fucking shae. What a whore... I mean bitch.

>>743220
Who cares if it's poorly written in a TV show.

>>743227

For hands of gold are always cold.

>>743188
come on, this is not Dragon Ball Z. Except for Gregor Clegaine these guys don't have power levels and shit. Ned was a capable warrior with a sword made of valyrian steel. He could have beaten anyone at any given time on a battle field and could have died just as easily.

>>743188

Jaime, however, wasn't at the Tower. Besides, wasn't Ned/Howland's party 7 strong, up against 3 Kingsguard? It's a testament to their strength that they whittled those 7 down to Ned and Howland...but they were still outmatched when the numbers are factored in; I doubt Ned/co. needed poisoned weapons.

Admittedly, though, it's been a while since I've read these, so I could be off on a fact or two.

>>743247
Yes this isn't DBZ but you can generally expect people like Jaime and Arthur Dayne to be a cut above even 'capable' warriors. When Jaime was taken by surprise in the Whispering Wood he cut down quite a few 'capable' warriors single-handedly. It's a testament to the level of virtuosity he's achieved with a sword.

>>743250
I completely forgot that Ned's party had more people in it. That makes it much more even. Also, it's pretty much a given that people from the Neck fight with poisoned weapons, the Iron Islanders complain about it constantly.

lol DBZ wtf

>>743247

Ned couldn't have beaten anyone. Ned himself said that Sir Arthur Dayne was the greatest swordsman he had ever seen. The man was so good he had earned his own name, The Sword of the Morning. People in the book vary in skill a lot, which is how it would be in real life too. There are very, very good swordsmen like Jaime Lannister and Lorras Tyrell. Then there are legendary swordsmen like Barriston the Bold, and Sir Arthur Dayne. There are also not very good swordsmen who tend to die a lot like Barrick Dondarrion.

>>743792
*Ned couldn't have beaten everyone.

(The way I phrased that made is sound like he couldn't beat anyone at all. That's not what I meant.)

wondering what grrm is up to that is so fucking important?

http://grrm.livejournal.com/

Bump before bed so this may be here tmw

re: Ned being badass and the Tower of Joy

I think Ned being badass at fighting is true to the books. Might not be the best in the continent but he's certainlya capable warrior, having been trained in combat from youth, being an experienced warrior from Robert's Rebellion, and not really having any ailments or anything holding him back. The problem is, Ned having a badass attitude is NOT true to his character, he is very humble and does not enjoy fighting or killing and form the start of A Game of Thrones he does not seem to really expect to be in a battle again.

In the script I read (which was VERY early and has probably been changed a ton since then) there's the scene where they're talking about why Ned doesn't like tournaments. In the script, his answer is something like, "If I ever have to fight someone for real, I don't want them to know what I can do." While that is a decent piece of reasoning, a smart guy wouldn't want to show off his fighting technique in tourneys in front of all the kingdom, his potential enemy combatants, to see. But Ned already gives a perfectly good, perfectly Ned reason for not liking tourneys. "War should not be a game." I think it's very relevant to his character and has to do with an important part of the plot. He says this shortly before or after a certain knight is 'accidentally' killed by Gregor Clegane.

>>744818 cont'd

So while everyone is all "cmon Ned, tourneys rock, look how cool this is" Ned is thinking about people dying for no good reason. He is concerned for the lives of others and does not think fighting or battle should be glorified. It's the same logic we see in his first scene where he decapitates the deserter of the Night's Watch himself, which I think speaks to his character a lot and is one of the things that takes him from some rich dude to the kind of fantasy hero you expect to survive throughout the series. Saying a lord should eb able to look a man in the eye and hear his last words and still be able to swing the sword. Later on when Robb has to execute someone, his wife asks why he doesn't just use a headsman since it should be much easier on him. Robb tells her that his father told him "Killing should not be easy."

In regards to the Tower of Joy, it is said that Howland Reed saved Ned's life in that fight. No doubt he did some tricky swampman stuff and paralyzed a dude with blowfish venom or something like that. I think Howland Reed could end up being Ned 2.0 later on in the series, except instead of being honourable and just he's a loveable underdog scoundrel who becomes pretty important to the story for a while but then gets overwhelmed in circumstances he is not accustomed to. Either that or he'll stay in Greywater Watch like a smart crannogman and continue to piss off whatever bad guys are there.

Did anyone else really, really like Arys Oakheart? I know he was barely there timeline-wise, but seriously, the man was awesome.

>>744892

I found it cute, the way he he clumsily courted Arianne.

Admittedly, she was a wanton slut, and he was far too innocent for her(a hilarious concept in itself), but his inept sexual relationship with her provided me with many a chuckle.

I expected his death, as he was rather stupid. Brave, but stupid.

So I'm reading a storm of swords right now, and I can't get over the fact that Sansa is still functionally retarded.

Seriously, when will this girl learn?

>>744896
I dunno, I think his Idealism is part of why I liked him so much. He and Loras were the only members of Joffrey's Kingsguard who actually deserved the position. He really, honestly believed in the importance of his duty and vows. And even though all the idealists get fucking ruined in ASOIAF, I still love to see them strive for something better in their cruel and senseless world.

>>745004
Next book. The girl has a quadratic increase of awesome over the series.

>>744892

I liked him, but I didn't fully get why he decided to just commit suicide-by-other-guys instead of just surrendering. Or he could have pulled something else to try to help the others escape or something. Instead he just up and dies.

>>745004
Sansa doesn't really grow up until the end of that book. Her later chapters are amazing, especially the last one.

>>745029
I think it's Arianne's fault he did it. The whole seduction/courting thing between the two really tore him up, because it was a level of intimacy he hadn't really had before, but it went against all the vows and duties he held sacred. Being a true Kingsguard really mattered to him (you couldn't really have the position and not have it be really important to you), and his "weakness" in indulging himself with Arianne filled him with self loathing and doubt.

He was on edge the entire secret mission to spirit away Myrcella because he wasn't sure this was the right thing to do and was already conflicted over his ability and worthiness as her protector. So then, when the plan went to pot and they got ambushed, it presented a clear situation. There was no doubt or ambiguity here, the honourable course of action here was obvious.

Armed men are trying to abduct your royal charge.
Fuck.
That.
Shit.

After months of torment in a strange land where he feels the very core of his self is slowly being ebbed away, he found solace in that perfect moment of clarity.

Arys died a noble, redeeming death to prove his worthiness to himself, his brotherhood, and the world. THAT is why he was a badass.


tl;dr Arys Oakheart says being a Kingsguard is serious fucking business.

>>745023
Alayne Stone is the shit

>>745023
Quadratic implies she earlier had a bunch of awesome, lost it, and gained it again. I believe the word you were thinking of is exponential.

Right now I'm on book IV of The Wheel of Time. I'm starting to get tired of the series, but can't decide whether to push on until I'm finished the damned thing or start reading these. Halp?

>>745367

Quit wheel of time while you are ahead. It is better to have pleasant memories of the first couple of books than to drag yourself through the gutters with the last ones.

Enjoy a change of pace. Pick up fire and ice. You'll never look back.

>>745418

+1

>>745418
>Enjoy a change of pace.

Yes, instead of your usual carefree existence you can join the rest of us in anticipation of the last book and in desperate hope that GRRM won't keel over from a pizzaroll overdose before it's released.

So what do you think /lit/ are Loras and Renly gay for eachother? Renly with his not so subtle rainbow guard and all.

>>745763
They are confirmed to be guy for years and years.
Get with the times, dude!
The current discussion is on whether Daemon in The Mystery Knight is a knobgurgler or not.
He is, but some peeps keep denying it!

>>745900
Gay.

>>745763
Possible. Loras did get ridiculously over-emotional for his liege lord whom he hadn't even known that long.

>>745763
Also, I forgot the reason why renly didn't bed margaery. Was there one?

I just saw another SOIAF thread on page 1 just now. This is getting out of hand.

>>744844
>>744818

+1. Ned isn't a badass running around fighting people. He is far to much of a man for that shit.

>>745985

It's not just possible, it's fact. It was practically a running gag throughout the novels. Plus GRRM confirmed it.

>>745029

I think Arys was the one who informed the the Prince about the plot, and he was intending to get himself killed. I don't think he intended Myrcella getting slashed up though.

>>747903
Wait, what? Link?

amazed this thread is still alive

>>749109

loads of references throughout the book but a few what i remember

renly :you'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid
stannis: In your bed shes like to die that way.
little finger : and it relieved him (talking about mace, loras' father) of the difficult task of trying to find lands and a bride for a third son, never easy, and doubly difficult in loras' case

and finally good old jaime :now sheathe your sword, or i will take it from you and shove it up some place even renly never found.(talking to loras when they were in kingslanding)

amazed this thread is still alive

>>749109

loads of references throughout the book but a few what i remember

renly :you'll be pleased to know she came to me a maid
stannis: In your bed shes like to die that way.

little finger : and it relieved him (talking about mace, loras' father) of the difficult task of trying to find lands and a bride for a third son, never easy, and doubly difficult in loras' case

and finally good old jaime :now sheathe your sword, or i will take it from you and shove it up some place even renly never found.(talking to loras when they were in kingslanding)

>>749126
Last quote. Totally forgot about that.

And yea, I'm amazed too. OP here.

>>749126
So basically all of his rainbow gaurs wanted to bang him.

Mother fuck this thread has been going on forever.

>>745418
>>745467
>>745748

I may be responding to day old posts, but I can see none of you read The Gathering Storm. WoT is back.

damn. with a thread this old i might be inclined to read this series. don't read much fantasy. maybe that'll change.

>>750231
It's good stuff man. I'm not huge into fantasy but this took my attention. Usually, I read graphic novels and mysteries. Reading "From hell" by Alan Moore and "Deja dead" by Kathy Reichs atm.

OP, btw.

>>750393
cool. will look into it.

>>750230
Yup. I made it about 4 days ago.

For those of you who are unaware, and may be looking into this series, it is contained in the ebook pack.

Fuck I can't find the thread.....

Can someone link to it?

>>751351

>>735377

>>751351
I found it on rapidshit by doing a google search for "a game of thrones pdf".

>>749126
Which book was stannis's quote from. Was that #2 right before renly died?

>>745763
Rhaegar was supposed to be bi too right?

>>742975

Fucking lol'd

>>753620
Missed that post till you quoted. lol.

>05/31/10(Mon)19:44
>my face when this thread is still alive

What's the post limit and how have we not reached it?

>>752210

Yes, he says it when he, renly, and catelyn are having a parley kinda chat.It is hilarious because stannis literally has no sense of humour so he is just telling it like it is.

>>753931
I'm pretty sure it's 300

there's exactly 300, if this post makes it itll be 301

404 TIEM?!

>>753931
>>754509
>>754572

I'll be sad to see this thread go.

OP here. Ty for the infoz guys.