/lit/ - Literature

>>7410708
retarded

Well even in /TV land its bull. The best villian are villians who have an inexplicable and incomprehensible desire for evil. They corrupt those around them, and although they are easily identifiable as evil psychopaths, hold such demonic control over the masses that questioning the motives is pointless

>Hitler was reluctant and only did things because of the situation he found himself in
Really? He just 'found himself' chancellor of Germany? Just 'found himself' invading Poland and Anschlussing Austria?

>>7410721
Let's not start this discussion.

>>7410708
>palpatine
>not shit tier

>>7410721
He found himself in hyper-inflated Germany because the repercussions of WWl were unfair. He found himself in a Germany being destroyed by the tribe.

>>7410721
He found himself being a shitty painter

>>7410716
so heath ledger's joker? he shoul at least be in great tier

>>7410724
I don't see why OP would post a ridiculously ahistorical /pol/-tier claim (cf. >>7410729 ) and expect it not to be called out.

>>7410735
Sure, Hannibal too. I mean, the graphic is bullshit. Palpatine is also inexplicably evil, so really all great villans are the same
\thread

>>7410738
I'm pretty sure being called out and starting shit is exactly what he want.

>>7410744
>/thread
The thread wasn't about the contents of the pic, though.

Not that this shouldn't be ended anyway...

>>7410735
The chart is retarded because it doesn't matter how good their motivations are on paper,it matters how them and the characters are expressed in the movie/books.
And it's also retarded because Joker's motives are very clear for anyone that isn't 5 years old.

Books that have a clear "villain" character are usually shit.

>>7410752
Yah like paradise lost. What a hack. John Milton = over rated faggot.

>>7410721
the social conditions that made it possible had to be in place

What is Palpatines motive, really?
Isn't it just power (which would be the last category)?

>>7410758
>Thinking Satan is the villain of Paradise Lost

Also that guy said that is "usually" the case

>>7410777
Can't argue with those dubs

>>7410775
Probably something to do with the objective of all Sith.

>>7410721
He found himself squatting at dawn.

>>7410788
...well, those >>7410777 aren't dubs...

>>7411922
Trips are a subset of dubs, dubsguy

>>7411933
>>7411922
>>7410788
>>7410777
Fuck man.

>>7411933

>>7410708
yes

every villain that is "just evil" with no apparent motive is simplistic! ewwww u like iago? sorry, only deep villains 4 me

if only shakespeare hadnt been such a HACK and realized what a copout it was right guys

>>7410721
oh, i see you didn't recognize that pic as bait. let me help you: it's bait.

the most interesting evil is comprehensible and almost sorta good?

fuck this meme

>>7411940
But Iago falls into Elder God tier easily
Doing it for a laugh is the best possible reason to be evil

>>7410804
He foresaw an invasion from an alien galaxy that would destroy all of them. He sought power to prevent that from happening and protect the galaxy.

>>7411998
is this real? or just some extended canon bullshit written by some dude in idaho

>>7412011
expanded canon is still canon.

>>7410744
>Palpatine is also inexplicably evil

lucas is such a hack. he could have made palpatine and vader so much more interesting. the nazis weren't blabbering about seducing people to evil, they were from an ideological coordinate from which they saw their world in the midst of a kind of degenerative apocalypse and believed only they could save it

other than that, banality, etc

>>7412011
>>7411944
>>7411933
>>7411922
>>7410788
>>7410777
>>7410744

>>7412013
let me rephrase:
the original star wars (IV) is a wonderful self contained film

the next two films expanded on this wonderful vision and story beautifully producing what was in truth a pretty stellar trilogy

over the next 4 decades this universe has been whored out and in the case of the prequels seemingly deliberately trashed. so when i ask if this is extended canon or part of the original trilogy (lucas describing palpatines motivations in 1980 holds more weight than 2010) its because i honestly dont think anything written after VI has any merit or even relevance to the original trilogy

>>7412032
the film isnt about vader/palpatine desu

they serve their roles, and their semimajor, but the film isnt trying to make them "believable" Vader's motivations become more nuanced in V and VI, but Palpatine never has to want anything beyond power for the story to work

>Villains whose motives are a mystery...

Hannibal explicitly says, "what I want is a view."

>>7410716
>The best villian are villians who have an inexplicable and incomprehensible desire for evil.

>>7410777
Although it would be retarded to claim that Satan is a "clear" villain in Paradise Lost he IS right.

The whole point of Satan being so heroic and admirable is that Satan is SUPPOSED to be seductive, Milton WANTED to reader to like and be persuaded by him in order to illustrate his point: that pride can be appealing, etc.

He's still a villain.

>>7411933
Right you are. It's just that what >>7410777 accomplished is so much more special and he deserves the full recognition of his august achievement under the hard-earned and vaunted monicker of trips. I mean sure, dubs is of course a special thing, a fraternity woven together in the occult hand of the caprices of post submission that only sorts out one of every ten comments through the binary crucible we call home. You and I stand tall in this accomplishment, after all: you're dubs >>7410788, I'm dubs >>7411922, you're dubs >>7411933, and I'm dubs again right here. But trips though--that's the One Percent.

Viva Trips!

Viva Trips!

>>7412189
>89
>I'm dubs again right here
Dang it if only I hadn't retyped that last line

>>7410708
Magneto is elder God

>>7410721
In Hitler's defense, Weimar Germany was, to put it lightly, a hellhole. I mean, for fuck's sake, it was cheaper to make wallpaper out of reichsmarks than to actually buy wallpaper. Mix that with the already rampant anti-zionist sentiments, and it is unsurprising that Hitler did what he did. However, to argue that humans are purely the product of their upbringing is fallacious, as people are not always restrained to certain actions because of past events. After all, there are plenty of people that lived pretty shitty lives who didn't try to exterminate the jews. So, really, you can't reduce Hitler's actions as evil for the sake of evil because he really did want to improve Germany; he, too, dreamed and loved and cared.

>>7410721
Hegel told me if Hitler didn't do it, someone else would have.
Joking aside I do think it's worth understanding the climate Hitler was found in.

>>7410758
Kek Milton didn't even write it.

>>7412134

>He's still a villain.

456 9etrm

>>7410708
>obeying their nature is listed as mid-tier despite essentially being the same thing as "just being evil" which is listed as shit-tier

>>7410708
How is robe guy from Star Wars a memorable villain... at all...
Also lol @ Hitler on a list of fictional villains

>>7410721
OP is a shitposter of the 'literally did nothing wrong' variety.
He sees all his problems not due to his unattractiveness to females but as a hand-wringing semite with rat's eyes. His legacy be as hero to those like him after he turns the gun on himself after taking out a few kids and women.

>>7412324
>he, too, dreamed and loved and cared.

>>7410708
>Hitler
>villain
Nice try jidf

Checc em

>>7413183
>projecting this hard
go back to /pol/

>>7410758
Bait/10
You don't even have to go full edgy and say that Satan wasn't the villain, Milton intentionally made it unclear.

>>7412013
>>7412061
EU isn't canon anymore, Lucas said so after he sold off the franchise.

>>7411895
umberbated bost my briend

Crake from Oryx and Crake and Ozymandias from Watchmen are fucking great villains.

Elder-God + Heroically self-sacrificial

>>7415321
I can't remember if Ozymandias ever explains why he picks his name. Is it just to state that he is aware his reign is finite?

>>7415325

I'd like to think that even a mediocre writer wouldn't want to use exposition for that.

>>7415325
Shelley's poem is quoted in the comic, if I'm remembering it correctly, but we do not learn how he got his name. It just evokes a sense of wisdom, strength, and hubris because of it's relation to Ramses II.