/lit/ - Literature

China Mieville is a solid stylists and crafts interesting settings, but has childish political views and is incapable of writing interesting characters.

Can anyone recommend some fantasy or sci fi books where the main character is not a good guy.

>>7356764
It looks like a benis jammin through a discus

>>7356920
Broken Empire Trilogy
The Prince of Nothing
The First Law Trilogy

I was surprised by this one. I had mistakenly dismissed it as a game tie-in.

>>7357482
*meant 2033. Haven't read 2034.

>>7356952
The prince of nothing has strong homosexual tones, fucking dude was diddled as a kid, and now wants ass.

Fhck that gay shit.

>>7356920
Still want some more answers.

>>7356764
Oh hey, another concentration camp.

Why can't we discuss individual works on /lit/ if they happen to be genre fiction, again? Why must they be contained to filthy little ghettoes like this, again?

>>7356920
The Eyes of the Over world and its sequel, Cugel's Saga.

The Book of the New Sun.

>>7356920
The Thomas Covenant books. I recommend not reading past the first trilogy though. >>7356923

A book store just opened in my town and all the book was 50%
I bought The Dark Tower books, The Mistborn Trilogy and the first Wax and Wayne novel and The Stormlight Archive books.
What am I in for?
Did i do good?

>>7358459
Pretty pleb but a lot of people find them enjoyable. Worth a read if you don't have a backlog.

>>7358410
We are not contained, but your questions/thoughts have a much better time spending a week on the board within these threads, instead of 404ing within a day.


>>7358436
For the love of god, don't read Thomas "muh leprosy " covenant. Cunt cries worst than an japanese chick in porn.

>>7358582
Hey, he said he wanted a bad guy. And Covenant is a pretty shitty person, in addition to be angst-filled.

I liked the first trilogy

>>7358459
>Brandon Memerson

>>7356920
Richard Morgan's Altered Carbon for sci-fi
Seconding >>7356952
First Law and Prince of Nothing are both very good

Are there any books where the sun rises in the west? And other contrary laws of nature known to us?

What of that authorfag who is writing that Star Epic II?

>>7359010
>books where the sun rises in the west?
is that like a specific term I've never heard before?
Or do you just mean worlds with slightly different laws of physics or settings than reality?

>>7359081
>Or do you just mean worlds with slightly different laws of physics or settings than reality?
This

>>7357482
My god, it's pretty awful. Don't know how good the translation is, but in Russia it's considered a trash book. I've even read it, though now I recent that. It's poorly written--just as virtually any modern Russian book.
Source: I'm a Russian.

>>7359149
What does cyka blykat mean?
I keep reading it when someone mocks russians about their prevalence in certain valve games.

>>7359230
A general swear 'phrase'. In detail, cyka = cyкa = bitch. Blyat = блядь/блять = either 'a hoe' or an explicit exclamation.
The usually rigid Russian grammar suddenly gets very lenient about swear words. You can chain them, not even adding proper inflections. As to word order, it's more of a prosody thing. So, cyka blyat pizdec is practically the same as, say, pizdec blyat cyka.

>>7359257
thanks, I had no idea.

>>7359257
Russian cussing is a World Verbal Cultural Heritage, it's ingenious.

>>7359289
Quite obviously it's a viewpoint thing, but I find cursing in other Slavic languages extremely funny. See, there are a ton of cognates in both languages, but, but, meanings are different. So you get amusing occasions when a string of swear words in, say, Czech sounds nothing like it to a Russian's ear. The reverse is also true.

>>7359324
*is

Anybody here read Django Wexler?

Currently reading, and so far it's like some holy war shit. Does this get better?

I have other books to read and don't have time to waste on shit.

I'm almost as excited to read the ~14% of pure scientific citations and explanations for Blindsight as I was for reading the book itself.

>>7356920
Book of the new sun.

>>7360312
Why aren't you duck riding Sanderson lately?

>>7359149
Oh, I just loved it. I thought it would be action-heavy, but it was all this dark, brooding fatalism.

I didn't care much about the wordsmithing aspect since it was a translation but I loved the mood.

New to /lit/, used the catalog to find this. I've recently read both Kingkiller Chronicles books, all of the Mistborn books, both Stormlight Archive books, Elantris, The Emperor's Soul (pretty much all/most of Sanderson), and all of the older "essentials." What are some more epic fantasy series you'd recommend? Kingkiller Chronicles and Stormlight Archive are my modern favorites. I love the prose in Kingkiller Chronicles, and I love the worldbuilding in Stormlight Archive. Is there anything out there with prose and worldbuilding up to those twos' standards?

>>7360871
Dave Wolverton/Farland was Sanderson's teacher and his Runelords series has a cool magic system that's played well until it fizzles out several books in. His Golden Queen series was quirky and engaging all the way through.

Also Elantris and Warbreaker from Sanderson, to see him reinventing that device from his mentor.

>>7360901
Thanks for the Wolverton/Farland recs, I'll check them out. Already read both Elantris and Warbreaker and really enjoyed them both.

>>7360871
Check out the Gentlemen Bastard series by Scott Lynch. I wouldn't put it on the same level as Rothfuss or The Way of Kings/Words of Radiance, but it's definitely up there.

Also the Night Angel and Lightbringer series by Brent Weeks are pretty good too.

>>7356836

I love Mieville yet this is a very valid criticism.

>>7360950
Seconding Brent Weeks

Also:
Chronicles of the Unhewn Throne by Brian Staveley
Codex Alera by Jim Butcher
Raven's Shadow by Anthony Ryan

>>7360457
I've never "duck rided" Sanderson. Sorry, bossman.

If you, or your type of assumptuous people, could make a quality post once in your life and recommend me some hard sci-fi by an author with prose similar to Reynolds or Watts, I'd be most grateful, pardner.

>>7361162
You post nothing but Sanderson's pics, I wouldn't call you an avatarfag, but I would call you a Sanderson dick rider.

>>7358433
>>7360324
>implying
Severian is a real nice guy. There are a couple times when he does morally reprehensible things, such as letting little-severians family get eaten because he didn't intervene quickly enough but he is ultimately a hero.
He tortures people, but if the torturing wasn't done by him someone else would do it, and it is explained multiple times that since the guild torturers have it down to a science, they never inflict more than the bare minimum amount of pain sentenced.
Severian is the most compassionate motherfucker of all time. Heals the sick and wounded completely selflessly. abolishes torturing, too.
All that said, I haven't read urth of the new sun yet. It may be that he does some evil shit in that book.

>>7356952

the prince of nothing and the first law tril are very underrated imo

I didn't realize that Dream London was getting a sequel until I stumbled on to this the other day. I actually think I liked it better than the first. They both do very interesting things with their fantasy premise, which I appreciate.

>>7358436
>>7358582
>>7358588
Fuck that noise, the whole series is excellent, though there's a marked shift in tone after the second trilogy. The author is working on a treatise currently for a TV/movie adaptation.

I'm trying to get back into reading. I haven't read lit for over 10 years now and don't want to give up on a super descriptive/slow piece. Basically I'm looking for a high fantasy book that's easy to read.

I'm thinking Hobbit or Riftwar Saga or something... not sure if they're an easy read though.

Anyone got anything for me?

>>7361667

The First Law Trilogy

>>7361666
What do you think of the Final Chronicles?

Like I said, I liked the first trilogy. In fact I liked it enough to see the second, but it felt sort of meh. I've seen mostly negative opinion of the new four books and the second trilogy really didn't leave me wanting to keep reading.

I'd be interested to hear a defense of the last four books. You might convince me to buy them.

>>7361666
The original trilogy would make a pretty good movie trilogy, followed up by a miniseries of the second. I could see it.

>>7361666
You are looking at it with nostalgic goggles, I bet you read the books as a kid.

I'm sure you would say the same thing for Eragon(that the entire series was excellent).

>>7361026
I guess the "criticism" in the ending of the old thread made you fuzzy.

>>7361662
What's this about?

>In Dream London the city changes a little every night and the people change a little every day. Captain Jim Wedderburn is the man to find out who has twisted London into this strange new world, and he knows it. ... Google Books

So it's like Neverwhere?

>>7362810
It's like Neverwhere if there weren't any hard and fast rules. The city is becoming more dream like, replacing numbers with emotions or colors and affecting architecture accordingly, and the people are twisted into caricatures of themselves, though not quite in as spooky a way as Uzumaki. Even Wedderburn is very distinctly not as unaffected or innocent as he likes to appear. It's a cool book.

Anyone here read Heroes Die/Caine's Law?

>>7362835
>Heroes Die by Matthew Stover is the first of a series of novels blending science fiction and fantasy and featuring the protagonist Caine.

>Stover
Dropped

>>7357573
I liked the Gay, Rape and Incest in the Prince of Nothing Series.

What're some books about Starship fighting?

>>7361533
Because a lot of the artwork is pretty damn cool and I have no other related outlet to post them at.

Currently working through Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep. Recently read Flow My Tears the Policeman Said, VALIS, and A Scanner Darkly.

>>7363997
Ubik when?

>>7361667

This one actually looks like a good starting point.Thanks!

>>7361707
This seems like a good starting point, thanks.

>reads through thread
>no one lists award winning books
>no one lists award wining authors
>conclusion
>no one actually reads on this board, and they just use wikipedia and goodreads.

>>7364543
>reading meme books

I posted what I last read, what have you got?

>>7364543
>'No Award' Sweeps Hugo Science Fiction Awards
http://www.geek.com/news/no-award-sweeps-the-hugo-science-fiction-awards-1631988/

Boy these award winners sure sound great.

>>7364543
Maybe you meant these awards.

>S.T. Joshi Returns His Two World Fantasy Awards
http://www.isegoria.net/2015/11/s-t-joshi-returns-his-two-world-fantasy-awards/

So is this good?

>>7364765
Didn't this bitch have a bunch of people dick riding because she won some award?

>>7364765
I found it to be an average baen-tier space opera

reading Kim Stanley Robinsons Gold Coast atm, its a bit Pynchon-esque

>>7356836
>if I dont agree with you you are childish

>>7361563
there is also the frequent rapes

>>7363997
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/mar/15/sciencefictionfantasyandhorror.philipkdick

>>7365240
yeah those fuckwit puppies were very mad
their complaints were utterly incoherent and as solid as jello

>>7361563
>>7365278
And hot incest...
>tfw you will never fuck your granny and make your father, thus making yourself
Why live?

>>7365278
frequent? I only remember one

>>7361563

I'm curious to know whether Book of the New Sun is a commentary on society, or an exploration of the human condition, or if it's really just an exercise in allegory and wordplay that appeals to people who obsess over things like the Lost tv series.

Just don't want to read five million words only to discover it's merely clever.

>>7365356
I think it's more than clever
decent read

Any suggestion for a plebeian that wants to do better? Also not anything like asoiaf, I like the setting but can't stand that overly descriptive style.

>>7365364
lem is the only scifi/fa author worth reading imo

>>7362835
No, sorry. Had Heroes Die on my shelf for years but haven't read it yet.

>>7363940
Thank you based memer.

>>7365356
If you're so curious perhaps you should read it.

Is Mistborn or The Stormlight Archive any good?

>>7364543
Wait, you're actually complaining /lit/ isn't reading popularity contests and Marxist garbage?

>>7366022
ur gonna get shit from the rest of this thread but i found stormlight to be quite enjoyable

>>7366358
I like Stormlight, fuck those e/lit/ist that sneak in these thread to say that Sanderson is bad.

>tfw you start writing your Space Opera

>>7366703
does it involve aliens?
And does it use weird names for already existing concepts to confuse the reader, like "Xenoc" for non-human aliens?

>>7366761
Aliens are there but it isn't about them.

No.

How the Greek hell is roadside picnic not in the recommendations?

Any fantasy books with a lot of rape in it?
I'm in a degenerate mood, give me the dregs of humanity(in literature).

Science Fiction and Fantasy is religious and scientific fan-fic.

>>7367311
Dfw and Joyce are Greek fanfics
Get the fuck out.

>>7367345
So you agree.

>>7367305

I'd learn toward Song of Ice and Fire, but it's mostly just GRRM exploring his knight hobby than anything else.

>>7367364
Do you have something to add to the thread?
No? Then gtdo.

>>7367811
I did but your response didn't add anything.

>>7367809
I don't want GURM, prince of nothing, prince of thorns, black jewels, BOTNS, warded man, malazan nor black company.

I read them all, I want some real degenerate shit(not buttgay steel remains degenerate though).

>>7356920
HP Lovecraft, it's basically both.

>>7361667
Jhereg by Steven Brust. Sub 200 page book that is the first in a series, but they all contain stand alone plots/adventures. The main character is an assassin for what is essentially a crime family. Reads like a mystery rather than a book with tons of fight scenes. Currently 4 books in on this series and enjoying it so far.

>>7361667
Artemis Fowl
Septimus Heap
I am number four
I am dead serious about these suggestions.

currently enjoying book 2. i like the series a lot so far.

I'm about a third of the way through VanderMeer's Authority. I'm enjoying it even though people seem to think it's a downturn after Annhilation. I like that he's building up tone and suspense.
Really looking forward to the conclusion of the Southern Reach trilogy.

Read all of these over the past 2 weeks except for Hyperion, just started it today after I finished Blindsight (which was great btw)

>>7365273
I don't agree with anything Nietzsche or Camus wrote, but that doesn't make them childish.
On the other hand China has that millennial Marxism type that's somehow strangely black and white without a single original or intelligent idea.

>>7365293
That's a theory which isn't supported in the text and is also quite stupid.
>>7365349
There were two. One with Dorcas and one with Jolenta.

>>7364257

I'd also recommend The Prince of Nothing trilogy if you end up enjoying The First Law. I think both equally good, but far too different in style to really compare. The Prince of Nothing is darker, and feels like a longer read vs the almost pulp fiction style of TFL.

In the end, I'd say they are more or less tied at the top of modern high (dark) fantasy. Both must-reads imo

>>7363946

Excession

>>7359324
It happens in normal speech as well. One well-known example is "Pozor, policie varuje." ("Attention, the police issues a warning."). The vocabulary and declension match Russian almost perfectly, except in Russian the sentence means "For shame! The police are thieves."

>>7357573
Are you a closet homo?

Aside from Dick, who incorporates Mysticism, Hermeticism, Alchemy, Platonism etc.?

>>7368299
You really should mention that Prince of Nothing is a fantasy retelling of the first crusade. It follows it like a script, shoehorning in some aliens and elves.

>>7364543
Does it offend you somehow that people tend not to read the hot new things when there are dozens of classic works they may not have read yet?

>>7366323
This board is full of Marxists, haven't you noticed?

>>7356920
Neuromancer

So I've heard VALIS is a good mindfuck. Confirm/deny?

Otherwise, I still need me some good hard sci-fi prose similar to Reynolds and Watts.

>>7364543
The fuck are you talking about? Much of the books recommended here are award winning, like LotR, Dune, Black Company, etc.
Or do you mean some particular award that you subjectively value above others?

Anyways, people here are regulars, so they have already read the popular books. Now they discuss above average new books and hidden gems.

>>7368431
>Anime image

>>7368405
Wolfe and Zelanzy.

My kind of morning! Let the plebs drink at Starbucks and read garbage like Hunger Games, pfff.

Any other patricians here having their morning brew and healthy dose of mature novel?

>>7368297
>There were two. One with Dorcas and one with Jolenta.
There was also that woman from the mercenary company.

>>7368446
I think he was implying we should be talking about this years award winners.

>>7368494
That's consensual. It's a ritual of theirs.

>>7368419
>This board is full of Marxists, haven't you noticed?
That's the point, they usually don't complain because It's about 90% of what /lit/ discusses.

>>7368297
>theory which isn't supported in the text
Did you read the book? Read it again.

That is first thing I latched onto when I read the books.

>>7368399
You never know, I hated gay shit with a vengeance when I was younger, then i found /b/ in 2004?2005?

Anyways, forced myself to fap to loli and shota(neither gave me a twitch), then started to get caught by traps, but once i saw the dick i went soft... now i look for newhalf, tranny, sissy, post op, ladyboy and a bunch of other porns, I also get trap tomgirl and sissy doujins and hentai... /b/ really changes you

>>7368416
>shoehorning in some aliens and elves.
I only read the first trilogy (and staying there), what is this talk about elves and aliens?

>>7368431
New Stormlight when??????
FUCKING WHEN

>>7368705
Nonmen are elves. They get more relevant later.
I forgot the name for the souless sex aliens, but you see some of their creations in the first trilogy.

Also, if the very mention of homosexuality triggers you that pretty much confirms you are gay, lad.

What are the essential sf short stories?
Specifically looking for stories and not compilations, this isn't fucking /mu/.

Pic related?

>>7368736
>What are the essential sf short stories?

Make a good short story and add subtle SF theme to it.
The SF part isnt what the reader wants in a short story, since there is no time to establish complex and creative rules or exploit them for interesting dilemmas and surprised and such.

Try taking any short novel you like and converting it to SF.

>>7368662
I've read it three times and we've already had this discussion. It makes absolutely zero sense and you are the only person supporting it. Wolfe has clear time travel and all elements add up to make a whole. This creates a paradox while at the same time doesn't add anything of value to the story which is extremely teleological.

>>7368748
...thanks for the advice senpai, but I was asking for recommendations of existing stories, not how to write them.

>there is no time to establish complex and creative rules or exploit them for interesting dilemmas and surprised and such

You'd be surprised what can be pulled off in a short story. Ever read All You Zombies?

>>7368723
>I forgot the name for the souless sex aliens,
You mean the skin spies? Aren't they all males?

Before the killer of all men was fucking one that made "herself" look like his dead "prize", from what I understand, skinspies are all males, that means he was buggering it?

I got a chubby when the emperor was begging his "mom" for some fuck saying 'you know you are the only one I can trust', it's funny what you would say to get some pussy... when the dick was revealed, I list my stiffy.

>>7368723
>if the very mention of homosexuality triggers you that pretty much confirms you are gay
It doesn't trigger me, the environment I grew up in(Caribbean) just instills that you must hate faggets from a young age.

>if you hate it you secretly like it
Does that mean that the KKK and neonazis secretly want blacks to fuck white women? They are just hiding behind racism?

>>7368765
>murderer character
>"Well I am not a murderer and I dont approve of murderers, but its just a book."
>cannibal character
>"Well I am not a cannibal and I dont approve of cannibals, but its just a book."
>gay character
>"Fuck this book and the author pushing his agenda, almost tricked me into reading."

You have to admit, there is something there.
Your culture also instills that you hate murderers and cannibals, much more so than gays.

>>7368765
I dont think the skin spies have gender, they are constructs.
Their creators are very sexual beings, and maybe they used sexual urges to command them and motivate them to move, much like hunger and pleasure drive humans for example.

>>7368753
The woman he pulled out from the lake/pond was his grandmother, he raped her, she gave birth to his father
/end

>>7356764

Hey guys,
I recently started reading Litany of the Long Sun (it's some anthology of two books) by Wolfe. My question is, should I be starting with this? I have no idea what the chronology of all his stuff is

>>7368774
Do you live in my country?
Kiddie fuckers and gays are more despised than cannibals (when they pop up once in 100 years) and murders (once the killer didn't kill a preggers woman or a kid)

>>7368792
>Kiddie fuckers and gays are more despised than cannibals (when they pop up once in 100 years) and murders (once the killer didn't kill a preggers woman or a kid)

If thats the case, then your country and culture are terrible and you should kill each other until you cleanse the Earth of your presence.
Killing a person is objectively worse than fucking a same sex partner.

>>7368782
That makes absolutely no sense. The woman he pulled out of the water and had sex with gave birth to his father in another lifetime with another man we actually know and who Severian met. The only person in the chain missing is his mother which cannot be Dorcas, because genetics don't work like that.
1. Dorcas and a man get married
2. They have a son
3. Son has sex with a woman who dies at the hands of the Guild
4. She was pregnant so Severian stayed with the Guild
5. Dorcas dies in the meantime too
6. Severian later on resurrected her
7. If she actually did have a child which we don't know it couldn't have been Severian due to genetics, if anything.

>>7368748
>since there is no time to establish complex and creative rules or exploit them for interesting dilemmas and surprised and such.
That's kinda weird to say in this thread considering how influential Dying Earth was in both genre.

>>7368794
To be fair you've got to define "killing a person" before you folks even play this game.

>>7368753
You're the same kind of person who refuses to believe that Renly is gay in ASOIAF.

>>7368861
I don't care about that novel and if your theory was supported textually you'd have no problem presenting it.

>>7368472
Answer the question, you goofy-lookin' nerd.

>>7368713
December 2016.

New Gene Wolfe novel has been named. Hopefully it's better than A Borrowed Man.

>>7369190
>December 2016
You trolling right..... I have to wait an entire year?

>>7369338
>New Gene Wolfe novel has been named
Hope its the Black Company continuation...

Love Dune, Hyperion. Book of the new sun was shit. Malazan was beyond shit.

Liked Cyteen a lot but the writing was terrible and it bugged me.

What read now?

>>7369998
Don't know what Cyteen is, but from the other books it's obvious that you like Scifi, so of course you will hate Malazan.

Ringworld, some B.V Larson and Neal Asher.

>>7369650
Gene Wolfe doesnt write black company you baka

>>7369650
Yeah. He plans to structure new Stormlight releases bi-yearly.

>>7370340
Bi-yearly as in twice a year.... or bi-yearly every 2 years?
It better be the former

>>7370357
not him but bi-yearly technically means once every two years. Counter-intuitive, I know. Twice annually would be twice in one year. ex, biweekly checks are those you get every two weeks.

I've been a Big Fan of Stephen King n Michael Crichton's work, but I'm just about done with all their novels. Anyone have suggestions with authors that have similar style writings?

>>7362083
>>7362088
Actually I didn't read any of them until recently. I've not read The Last Dark yet. .the mythology has greatly expanded (the glossary at the end of the book has gotten pretty ridiculous) Personally I find The Land and their myriad inhabitants fascinating. I've never read a story like it before. Quite esoteric and bleak. I've only one book left to go and have even less of an idea of what's going to happen than when I started.
Basically if you didn't enjoy the first two series, or don't like Covenant's of Linden's character I don't think you'd enjoy the last 4.

>>7370357
>not knowing what bi-yearly means

>>7370846
I was just making sure.

>>7370340
>He plans to structure new Stormlight releases bi-yearly.

What of the other Cosmere books?
Mistborn, that Forest book, and the book about worms that eat their way into bird's brains giving them "special" powers.

>>7372746
What do you mean exactly?
Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and Sixth of the Dusk has been out for a while already.

Bands of Mourning--the third Era 2 Mistborn book--will be out in January, and the last book of that won't be written until 2017 I think? Modern Mistborn will be written during the break in between Stormlight 5 and Stormlight 6, somewhere around 2021/2022.
Not to mention all the other fucking sequels and books he needs to write regarding already released shit.

Space opera is the only good scifi subgenre. Indisputable fact. Debate me, christfags.

>>7370612

Joe Hill, Stephen King's son.

>>7372940
>Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell and Sixth of the Dusk has been out for a while already.
>What do you mean exactly?
Aren't they suppose to turn into full series?

>>7373398
No? They were only ever novellas.

>>7368765
>when the dick was revealed, I list my stiffy.

Nigga please

>>7373786
Did you continue fapping?
I didn't.

>>7369338
wait, what?

>>7375219
2015.- Wolfe published A Borrowed Man, a mediocre mystery novel.
He has announced a new novel in the upcoming years.

Whats some Sci-Fi with a waifu-worthy female protagonist

>>7375914
The Jasnah girl in stormlight(she over 30, but who doesn't want a qt milf gf).

>>7375455
Was it mediocre? Haven't picked it up yet. His output in recent years has been pretty mediocre.
I believe the next book is the sequel to A Borrowed Man. At least that's what he said in an interview I read some time ago.

>>7376809
It's very mediocre. It's just so disappointing reading something like ABM knowing how capable he is.

>>7367993
>I am number four

Anon pls.

the only good sci fi is like, some Asimov and Bradbury, and Neuromancer. There, I saved you a lot of time

Kinda close to finishing Foundation, what other book of his should i read after? I'm really liking this one.

>>7368786
Yes, that's the right one. Epiphany of the Long Sun is the next one in order.

>>7369338
What's it going to be called? Book of the Flat Sun?

>>7377088
Was talking of Asimov, in case anyone didn't recognized the book. And i forgot to name him.

>>7377088
All of the Foundation books? Second Foundation is the best. The ones from later years are not so good.

>>7377135
Wait, how many are there? I'm actually listening to it, and i'm not entirely sure if the time-skips are still on the same book or from other books.

>>7377143
There are time skips in the stories because the first three books -- Foundation, Foundation and Empire, Second Foundation -- are just the assembled short stories he wrote in the Foundation universe. If you've met Bel Riose, you're into the second book If not, the next two expand on the established framework in fun and interesting ways.

After you finish those three, go back to the early Robot series -- The Caves of Steel and The Naked Sun. Then the Galactic Empire novels The Stars Like Dust, Currents of Space and Pebble in the Sky.

If you're still going strong then it's time to rejoin the mainline Foundation books, but those are the golden-age Asimovs that his later work will tie together.

>>7377167
Well, a quick trip to wikipedia tells me that i'm still on the first one, specifically about to finish The Merchant Princes. And thanks for the recs, i'll keep those in mind.

>>7377185
You're in for a treat. The next two just get better and better.

>>7376111
>Stormlight
>sci-fi

>Jasnah
>main protag yet

Crown Prince Ladisla did NOTHING wrong

>>7377199
>Is an idiot and gets thousands killed
>Tries to rape a girl

>>7356920
The Stars my Destination
Dying Inside
Flow my Tears, the Policeman said

Some of the Culture novels have not-good main characters

If you are into D&D:
The Sellswords Trilogy
Realms of Infamy (short story collection),
The Empyrean Odyssey Trilogy (borderline though)
The Erevis Cale Trilogy (borderline as well)
King Pinch (Haven't read it yet, he's characterized as a villain in one of the short stories in Realms of Infamy though)
Probably a few of the Rogues books (which I haven't read either yet)

In the broadest sense Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser's and Conan the Barbarian's main characters can at least be classified as profit-oriented, maybe that's your kind of thing.

>>7362810
Who is this Google Books? Sounds sinister.

>>7367257
but it is.
the imgur one is pretty fucked up though it seems.

>>7377463
Can the scifi fag who made this make one for fantasy?

>>7377491
why don't you make one yourself?

>>7377188
>first crisis is avoided by telling your attacker that the other guys will gang up on you if you do anything
>second crisis is avoided by using religion fanatics to capture the royals
>third crisis is avoided by selling regular day-to-day stuff to people and then doing absolutely nothing

Gotta love how there's always someone outwitting their enemies by (not even complicated) keikakus everywhere.

>>7365293
>>7368802
So was it a red herring, then? I also thought that Dorcas was Severian's grandmother.

>>7378738
No, that's just one guy with autism. It's pretty much a generally accepted fact.

>>7378956
>>7378738
If your granny was a qt, would you fuck her?

>>7378956
It weirded me the fuck out for sure.
Still not sure I completely understand the books.

>>7379017
It's really annoying how the only real discussion of it online with any depth is that shitty mailing list.

>>7379025
There's a wiki which basically has pages consisted of copypasted discussion, or is that the mailing list?

>>7379048
Shit, that post is a trainwreck, but I hope you catch my drift.

>>7379050
It's okay, it's like a Wolfe story. I had to re-read it 4 times to truly understand it.

>>7379017
>It weirded me the fuck out for sure.
What are you doing on 4chan, if you never even considered, that a female member of your family has a working vagina?

Are you by chance... a normie?

>>7379965
What are you talking about m8?
The incest came completely out of the blue for me.

>>7356764
>>What Sci-Fi and Fantasy are you reading at the moment?
Agent to the Stars, Scalzi.

>>What are your favorite Award Winning Novels in SFF?
Of all time? Probably Spin, Wilson. Won Hugo in 2006.

>>7368493
>calls other people plebs
>reads Rothfuss

Please.
Also,
>mature

Now I have to question whether you're being serious or baiting.

>>7380118
I'm pretty sure it's a semi-parody post.
But what's wrong with Rothfuss? I really loved the sympathy stuff, and the way it follows it's own rules. Not many writers bother to explain their own magic mechanics.
I guess the main character is the main issue?

>Black Sun Rising starting to get really cool
Man I'm only a little over 33% through but really liking it for some reason. The first 10% was a boring slog--I don't know why--then it's like a switch was turned on.
I think the author has a way with capturing people's true reactions and feelings and perspectives, too.

>>7380531
The MC is a Gary Stu on Kirito proportions. I haven't even watched SAO myself but every single time I see the MC discussed, I immediately think of Kvothe.

>>7379025
It was discussed here a lot and then like all good books became a meme so discussion died.

>>7380540
In the first book at least it was justifiable because he was a weak wimp, so he did at least get his shit kicked in occasionally despite being smart.
But then he learns sexomancy from a demon, fucks ninjas and completely loses all weaknesses, to the point that he can fuck any woman after 6 words.
wow.

>>7368297
Dont forget he rapes Phoebe and thats why the whole thing is narrated from a home for juvenile offenders.

>>7380534
You finally took my advice for the coldfire trilogy...

Fuck what happens to muh waifu though(too many female characters for you to know what i am talking about). Goodluck sweating that out.

>>7380795
He isn't speaking of Catcher in the Rye...

Quick question, what is everyone's age ITT?
Want to know what age groups we have reading these books.

Especially you cosmere fag.

I'm 25

>>7359149
>in Russia it's considered a trash book. I've even read it, though now I recent that. It's poorly written--just as virtually any modern Russian book.
You are just a hipster. It's above average book.

>>7381256
Same age as you, nerd.

why is OP first link is for a thumbnail or some shit? I want the real chart please

>>7381300
>what is zoom
Get a proper browser applefag.

So I'm a bit new to scifi/fantasy, having just started BotNS earlier this month, which I learned of because of all the Wolfe spamming on /lit/ earlier this year. I'm about 40 pages from finishing Claw, and I have to say I don't really get what all the hype is about. I mean, I do think they are pretty great, but I wouldn't say they are the best novels I've ever read. Is there some sort of supplemental materials that better explain the ins and outs of the series, or should I finish the tetralogy before looking up other things? I feel as though I'm missing something, and I don't know if it's just because of Wolfe and Severian are limiting my experience on purpose for the time being

>>7381819
It will come together, but there are Lexicon Urthus and Between Light and Shadow

>>7381865
Alright, I'll check those out after I finish the novels. I suppose I must read Urth of the New Sun before them, too.

>>7381883
You don't have to but it explains a few things.

>>7381819
What do you like in books? BOTNS might not be for you.

Do you like:
>wild magic(unordered with no rules)
>tame magic(has a definite structure and rules and limits pertaining to use)
> technology
>heist
>dark(rape and murder is openly talked about, and there is no black and white distinction)
>adventure
>disney(happy ever after)
>teen/young adult
>futuristic
>historical
>politics(royal courts, or democracies fighting over power to rule the land)
>religious zealots
>anti hero
>no hero at all
>i am powerful therefore i am


Give us what tickles your fancy, and we will help recommend you something you might enjoy, without working at it(forcing yourself).

>>7382253
None of those really describe what New Sun is about.
Main themes are determinism and evolution with God in the background of it all and sin, redemption, death and resurrection.
It's baroque, misty and strange, heavily influenced by Borges and Chesterton.
It's also very Catholic and in relation to sin shows how it twists the world, because it is held that when sin entered the world so did pain and suffering and there is a lot of sin against nature in there. So those and Severian as a character are the things one should focus on while reading it.

Also have to mention how strange it is seeing that New Sun reached a cult status here in less than a year of me spamming it.

>>7382516
Did i say that is what BOTNS is about?

Are you fucking daft? I was listing different types of fantasy subgenre that might attract the posters likes

>>7382516
>Also have to mention how strange it is seeing that New Sun reached a cult status here in less than a year of me spamming it.

>I started everyone on lit on the path to Book of The New Sun

>it was never recommend here before I came, and if it wasn't for me, no one would have read it

Jesus fucking christ of mormons, the pretentiousness in that one post is just off the wall

Fagget plz leave, and never come back
>>>/trash/

>>7382551
It was occasionally mentioned and went from not being in top 100 to being 27 or something like that.
It's an increase in popularity, wouldn't you say?

>>7382561
Is your dick long enough to stick in your ass? Because it seems like you are doing some serious selfdickriding.

>>7359010
Becker, Becker, Schwarz ;)

>>7359010
The sun rises in the west on Venus, look for books about that planet.

Just curious, would anyone have pdfs of Charles Stross's Laundry Files and the rest of the series? I am having an enormous amount of trouble finding them online. Help a fellow anon out?

>>7383812
Torrents

Otherland by Tad Williams is one of the best works of science fiction dealing with virtual reality and the future of the internet. There are a lot of parallels to Snow Crash, just taken to obscene levels of thought. The first novel in particular deals primarily with explaining the systems of the world, while the others explore the world the first was building.

>>7381256
34 :(

>>7381256
21

>name your SPMD party after Shardholders
I'm such a faggot.

>>7384535
This has been on my backlog since forever. M-maybe after Coldfire trilogy.

I need recommendations for sci-fi or fantasy novels with nationalism as a main theme or driving force. Preferably for fictional nations.

>>7382253
I'm not that guy, but I've just stated reading again and I'm interested in what you'd recommend for books with a political theme. The Prince is one of my favourite books and I'd love to read a fantasy or Scifi interpretation of it.

>>7381256
29

>>7384958
Not that guy, but Coldfire Trilogy is fucking great.

>>7385244
Yeah I'm really liking it and I imagine shit is gonna go down the first time there's a major fight. I don't know why but it's really gripped me. I need to read more of that soon too.

>>7368431
It's definitely interesting, don't expect any great prose but it is full of suprises especially if you haven't heard much about Dick's theories. It's kind of tragic at the same time when you realize it's the way he actually percieved the world. I'd call it weird, but not really mind fucky, It's not like Gravity's Rainbow or Book of the New Sun where you don't know what's going on and will probably have to reread to get what happened. The weird is there, but it's easy to grasp.

It's also worth reading some other Dick novels first, just to see how this one is different. Valis isn't even exactly science-fiction.

>>7381256
31

>>7381300
It's to do with Firefox. Try viewing it in Chrome.

>>7385846
I use firefox but never had the problem, I always get the full version.

>>7385844
Fellow 31 here

I don't think this qualifies as /lit/ or /his/.

>>7386248
your post qualifies as shitposting though

>>7381300
>>7385846
Delete /revision/latest?cb=20110612005642 from the URL and you'll get full size.
Honestly, this should be in the OP, I have the same problem.

What are some really good grimdark fantasy books?

What series should I read next?
"The Red Queen's", "Shattered Sea" or "The Grim Company"

>>7384974

Starship Troopers?

>>7384974
The Moon is a harsh Mistress should be exactly what you want.

>>7386887
Don't touch Mark Lawrence's or Joe Abercrombie's tie-in novels.

>>7356920

>>7387857
>Blowing out the highlights as well as the darks. Why is fantasy art so shit?

>>7386765
maybe try some warhammer fantasy books? necromancer or vampire wars?

So is this a good read? I've heard the Dunk and Egg stuff is actually really good?

>>7388051

How are the Witcher books?

Anyone have a good series with good western fantasy settings, a sense of wonder and adventure, and a young protagonist?

Basically something like the Dragonbone Chair. Something just like that. I should just read that again.

>>7386765
The First Law trilogy

>>7388051
>>7388057
fuck off with this shit

>>7388927
Thats really hard to answer.
You should begin with the short novel books first to get a feeling and because they introduce many of the plotpoints/characters of the main series.

For the series, it has awesome worldbuilding and a really, really realistic setting, probably one of the very best I have ever found. Anything from how the economy works, metallurgy, how different species would live together (or not) or how war is waged feels very real-life.
Coupled with this are a multitude of factions, nations and organizations, some important some just doing their things in the background.

But at the same time the characterization and specific plot is just so bad. English is not my first language, so its hard to describe but it just felt like bad YA novels or womans literature, if that makes some sense. Just overly dramatic and artificial. Which makes some really strange contrast to the realistic and interesting background plot.
In the end in the first book it kinda balanced itself out and in the second book, when SHTF and the major conspiracies get started, the good story prevailed, but since then it only got worse. Somehow I made it to the end, but it really was pretty bad.

recommend me some cyberpunk books, please

>>7389131
all three neuromancer books obviously. They are sadly the only good ones.

You can try Cyberabad Days though, it has an interesting setting.

What's the appeal of Malazan? I've had people tell me it's "if Dark souls was a book". I know he finished his 10ish book series and it's probably longer book pages than Wheel of time. Worth reading??

>>7364765
It's okay, didn't think it really delivered on its premise and that pronoun shit is really fucking distracting.

>>7389173
Agreed. ;_; The trilogy is GOAT.

>>7389261
It's nothing like Dark Souls. It's more like Dragonball Z.

>>7389089
>post something related to asoiaf
>fuck off with this shit
>3 paragraphs response for a question about The Witcher

"I don't like it because it's popular"

>>7386594
I think your brain qualifies as /x/.

>>7389658
The witcher is popular, may not be Game of Thrones popular, but after the games had such a success people are looking to the source material.

>>7389261
The appeal is probably that they have normal mortals fucking up Gods left and right. Who wouldn't like to fuck over a god?

>>7389691
Why the need to lash out though? All I wanted know is if the short stories are rambling messes, considering some people hold them in higher regard than asoiaf. You don't need to get angry every time someone mentions a series you don't like.

Anyone knows any good/fun urban fantasy series that doesnt turn into softcore porn and alpha males everywhere?

>>7390006
Felix Castor
Dresden Files
Alex Verus
Joe Pitt Casebooks

>>7389762
>You don't need to get angry every time someone mentions a series you don't like.
Dude this >>7389691 is the first time I replied to you, I never did before.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

>>7361625

Prince of nothing disturbed me for some reason

>>7390462
All the gay, rape and incest?

>>7360871
The black company is often considered the beginning of the grim-dark legacy in much of fantasy today. Glen Cook also is not a bad author.

Check out steven erikson for endless amounts of character. His world building is kinda cool though.

If you are a faggot you can read game of thrones.

>>7390670
>this
Also adding Prince of Thorns and Prince of Nothing for grimdark.

>>7389089
>>>7388927
>Thats really hard to answer.
>You should begin with the short novel books first to get a feeling and because they introduce many of the plotpoints/characters of the main series.
>For the series, it has awesome worldbuilding and a really, really realistic setting, probably one of the very best I have ever found. Anything from how the economy works, metallurgy, how different species would live together (or not) or how war is waged feels very real-life.
>Coupled with this are a multitude of factions, nations and organizations, some important some just doing their things in the background.
>But at the same time the characterization and specific plot is just so bad. English is not my first language, so its hard to describe but it just felt like bad YA novels or womans literature, if that makes some sense. Just overly dramatic and artificial. Which makes some really strange contrast to the realistic and interesting background plot.
>In the end in the first book it kinda balanced itself out and in the second book, when SHTF and the major conspiracies get started, the good story prevailed, but since then it only got worse. Somehow I made it to the end, but it really was pretty bad.

Thanks for the response. I took out The Last Wish from the library. From what I can tell, it's a compilation of the short stories and is supposed to be read first, correct?

I'm kind of interested in the games. I've got the second one for Xbox 360, but my computer isn't meant to run games so the first game doesn't run on my PC, which I was I figured I'd just read the stories.

Are there any books that aren't completely laughed at by legitimate literary authors?

>>7391374
This is such a sad question.

>>7391374
No.

As I've heard described once, authors hate books. They hate their own books because they're a sensitive sort, they hate good books because they're a jealous sort, and they hate bad books because they're an elitist sort.

I've been reading Arthur C. Clarke recently. Read 2001 and Rendezvous with Rama. Rama was a little too dry and boring (although I can't really say why...). 2001 was less so but still not great. I respect the scientific accuracy but it's not really thought-provoking or creative to me.

Childhood's End gets discussed a lot so it's on my list but I have heard that the sequels to Rama and 2001 are progressively shittier so I'm avoiding those (unless someone has a point otherwise). The Fountains of Paradise won Hugo/Nebula awards but I never hear it discussed... Thoughts? Anything else in his oeuvre worth checking out?

>>7391407
The sequels to 2001 aren't as good, but they aren't terrible, a little anti-climactic of an ending though.
The Rama sequels are mostly written by a different author and have a completely different tone, not really that great.

Fountains of Paradise was a pretty nice book though, about the building of a space elevator.
Mostly a slow paced and chill story until the last few chapters.

>>7391374
Alice in Wonderland, grim brothers and Pinocchio

>>7391351
If you get the offical translation it works out, I found the book too prosey for me, yet I still enjoyed the stories.

>>7391407
his short stories, clever and funny

>>7391407
>>7391407
Childhood's End probably won't live up to the hype. The Fountains of Paradise is great and also quite short, might be worth it.

Check out "Tales from the White Hart", a collection of short stories with a generally bit lighter touch than his novels. You should probably just give up on him if you didn't like Rendezvous with Rama though. "Scientific accuracy but otherwise...eh" pretty much sums up Clarke.

The 2001 sequels aren't really worth reading but aren't terrible. The Rama sequels are absolutely atrocious and you shouldn't even think about reading them.

Any scifi book written years ago that actually predicts our currently reality?

>>7394204
what's there to predict, really?
Everything's the same, except we got smaller phones, oh wait they got bigger again. never mind.
And apparently everyone is a political activist, yet nobody actually goes voting.

>>7394204
Bump

>tfw finished Book of the New Sun 1-5

What can fill the void? What an amazing series.

>>7381256

20

Favorite authors are Vance and Dunsany.

Read everything by both.

>>7394204

1984

>>7393401
THIS THIS THIS
God damn the Rama sequels were so bad. Such a shame too, I wanted so much more from that universe. The Fountains of Paradise was great though.

>>7395323
Read more Wolfe, Chesterton and Proust.

>>7395323
What you enjoyed about BOTNS?
Was it the parallel time paradoxes, the futuristic colonization of other planets?The rape and incest?

>>7396804
I liked the rape, gay and incest in the BOTNS.

This is an odd request, but I'm looking for books with foreign concepts in them. Books with concepts so foreign that they'll baffle me.

I'm tired of reading books that all basically amount up to the same thing so I want something that can completely rock my world view by introducing something I'd never thought of.

I think Sci-Fi might be the best genre for something like this but not certain.

>>7397601
Solaris.

>>7397609
Thanks, guess I have something to read tomorrow.

>>7397601
Most Stanislav Lem books are built around foreign concepts.
Try "His Master's Voice", "The Invincible", "Fiasco" or "Eden".

Also take a look at "The Sparrow" and "Children of God" by Mary Russell.

>>7397601
Vernor Vinge's Zones of Thought series. Particularly the first, A Fire Upon the Deep. The laws of physics operate differently in different segments of the galaxy so different forms of life become possible in each. From the rudimentary forms of the unthinking depths to the superbeings of the transcend.

The theme of inconceivability runs through Vinge's work and while he's not a philosopher of it he's informed by it. I've heard him say he's interested in a science fiction where the past is no longer a reliable guide to the future. I think in one of his books he adds a cycle of civilizational collapse to colonized planets so none of them can warp the story by transcending knowability.

Try that first one and keep going if you like the author.

>>7397601

>>7396804

I loved it all. Definitely need to reread in the future.

So much stuff I missed in the first pass.

>>7398188
You should read Jack Vance's Dying Earth cycle. While not as deep as Wolfe, the stories have nice prose, and were very influential on the setting of BOTNS.

>>7398209
I'd just add that a lot of people have trouble reading Vance for the first time -- they expect epic and get wry, small and indirect.

Stick with it. When you get on his level Vance is irresistible and with patience you'll see why people from Wolfe all the way to Gary Gygax can't help but borrow.

>>7398209

Looks interesting. I was probably going to start the Long Sun/Short Sun series to round off everything. Hopefully they're good too.

>>7389131
synners by pat cadigan

Just finished Ilium by Dan Simmons, and I have heard the sequel/continuation Olympos is shit. Anyone here read it?

So I'm reading Gardens of the Moon and it's kind of shit. There's some good stuff with Crokus and the Darujhistan crew, but there's a lot of shit I just don't care about. I hear the rest only gets worse but that everything is "explained" in the later books. Which doesn't really sound all that appealing. Does it really get better?

>>7398519
Wouldn't bother with it desu. There's some good stuff in there but there's a lot more shit.

>>7398519
Do you want to read an dnd anime adaptation?

>>7398751
>>7398798
Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. It's just disappointing because I kept seeing it getting compared to the Black Company, which I loved. I also keep seeing it listed as one of those must-read fantasy epics on all those recommended lists. Which I still don't entirely get.

>>7398851
The fantasy list is trash.
Sf list is a bit better, but still has awful titles on it.

>>7397601
Revelation Space introduced some really cool concepts throughout its series and related universe.

>>7397866
I've actually heard about this series too and
>laws of physics operate differently in different segments of the galaxy so different forms of life become possible in each
I wish I was smart enough to know details about how this would affect things.

>>7398209
This. Dying Earth is legit.

I think we need a new thread.

>>7398942
You make one, I can't be bothered.

Things I liked:
Richard K. Dick short stories
Bruce Sterling (Involution Ocean, Schismatrix)
William Gibson

Please, recommend me something based on this. I like realistic sci-fi (cyberpunk). I heard Neal Stephenson is good in this genre.

>>7399278
no u

I bought Name of the Wind today on a whim, seems like something fun but the fact the person who wrote the introduction described the dialogue as being very Joss Whedon like has putt me off a little.

How apt would you say that is?

>>7399838
the universe and physics in this book are great. I love how the sympathy follows actual mechanics that can be used in creative ways, and the Draccus for it's original spin on dragons.

The protagonist becomes a gary stu once he gets his shit together though, especially towards the end of the second book. Unless you want to attribute that to him being an unreliable narrator.

I liked the first two books overall.

>>7360145
>Wexler
>Currently reading, and so far it's like some holy war shit. Does this get better?

2nd book goes back to the setting's "Europe" if that's of any assurance

>>7364765
So far I'm severely disappointed. I've been an avid reader of fantasy and SF for several decades and this is the most disappointing book, seeing as it's won the highest number of important rewards of any book I've read.

>>7368493
Youz trollin', right?

Name of the Wind was a very decent book, although the whole dragon part was lame. Wise Man's Fear totally sucked donkey balls, though. For a large part it was a retread of the first book, and it had the boring and waaaaaaay too long part about Kvothe sexing up some fairy and other bitches.

>>7384535
Read these four books roughly 10 years ago, LOVED them. Have been looking forward to decent VR ever since.

>>7397866
I was really disappointed by A Fire Upon the Deep to be honest. A lot of it seemed very childish, especially the Tines.

>>7399873
How was the Draccus an original spin on dragons? It was just a boring fucking dragon. That whole section was really the lowest point of the book.

>>7400257
it's an actual non-magical animal, it's a herbivore, the fire breathing is justified by both his niche in the ecosystem as well as his diet, and it's on drugs.
I have seen none of these in any other fantasy setting before.