/lit/ - Literature

>>Ulysses is Joyce's worst novel.
the only actually edgy opinion in OP

>Chekov is better than Tolstoy, Dostoevsky and Nabokov.
not popular, but hardly edgy

>Virgil is better than Homer.
common (non-majority) view

>You can't write well without having read the canon.
common wisdom

1/4, try again OP

>>7345501
You only have to scan the catalogue to see that most of /lit/ thinks it's possible to write well without having read the canon.

>>7345501

> Name of the Wind is unreadable drivel

> Jane Austen doesn't belong in the Canon

> Lacann was a big fat phony

> Medieval philosophy and Aquinas specifically deserve more respect

>>7345525
> Name of the Wind is unreadable drivel
common opinion among /lit/ readers/lit snobs

> Jane Austen doesn't belong in the Canon
common opinion. see mark twain.

> Lacann was a big fat phony
common opinion. see...a lot of people.

> Medieval philosophy and Aquinas specifically deserve more respect
common opinion

jfc /lit/ you guys suck at this.

>Young Adult Fiction will find a way on to the canon, or the canon will be destroyed

>John Burnside and Ali Smith are two of the best writers of our generation

>Free Verse poetry is only for Americans

>Setting is one of the most important considerations for a writer

>>7345530

I think the mistake you're making is comparing these opinions to the sample size of /lit/, whose opinions are generally pretty edgy already, making it hard for the posters to distinguish their own edginess.

Many of these would be pretty edgy in the main stream. The OP doesn't really specify.

Lemme try tho senpai: Bram Stoker was right - the real Elizabeth died at age 10 and the queen was a man in drag the whole time.

>>7345516
>>7345530

Thank you for dissecting the posts. Could you tell me a bit about Sonic?

>>7345525
Name of the wind is a pile of shit.

>>7345550

>Young Adult Fiction will find a way on to the canon, or the canon will be destroyed
nice, you triggered a lot of /lit/izens. but it's not edgy cause this is something a lot of plebs endorse

>John Burnside and Ali Smith are two of the best writers of our generation
don't know them, idk if they're popular enough to be edgy

>Free Verse poetry is only for Americans
maybe...

>Setting is one of the most important considerations for a writer
not controversial at all

>>7345551

No I don't think that's true at all. Austen is pretty polarizing and a big contingent of people want to remove her from the canon. Lacann being a phony is super common among people who aren't neck deep in theory, and there are people who are neck deep in theory also think he's a hack.

see Wikipedia, which is basically as mainstream as you're gonna get here:
>Jacques Lacan, was a French psychoanalyst and psychiatrist who has been called "the most controversial psycho-analyst since Freud".

>Bram Stoker was right - the real Elizabeth died at age 10 and the queen was a man in drag the whole time.
theories that capture the popular imagination cannot, by definition, be edgy

>>7345501
I sympathized with svidrigailov in crime and punishment

Contemporary fiction is shit.

>>7345501
>Kafka's work is probably the funniest out there
>Moby-Dick was Melville's only good work
>Good Old Neon is better than IJ

>>7345501
Nah, its Finnegans Wake

>>7345501
>If Virginia Woolf was male, she would be considered better than Joyce
>George RR Martin is one of the greatest living writers
>Passages from the bible should still be taught in school.
>Gaddis and Pynchon are the same person.
>Sylvia Plath's death wasn't suicide.

>>7345583
>Contemporary fiction is shit.
common opinion

>>7345578
>I sympathized with svidrigailov in crime and punishment
he wasn't meant to be an irredeemable villain and he was supposed to have empathetic and sympathetic aspects. not edgy.

>>7345590
>Kafka's work is probably the funniest out there
popular opinion

>Moby-Dick was Melville's only good work
popular opinion

>Good Old Neon is better than IJ
nice this one is actually a rare/edgy opinion, gj anon

That "hurr nothing is objective everything is nothing" garbage is good for nothing, and if you can't understand that even though there is no way to be 100% sure of anything we can still work on probabilities, you're as good as the Atlas Shrugged villains.
Also, Atlas Shrugged is a badly written book but its message is spot on, essential, even. Humans driven by fear and emotions are the root of all evil. The existence of Tumblr, "political correctness" and "triggers" proves it.

>>7345599
>common opinion

whatever you say, edgelord

>>7345501
I haven't read Joyce yet.
Chekov is I think better than Tolstoy. Or rather I like him more, but I have him in fresher memory.
But he is most certainly better than Nabokov.
I haven't read Virgil, but I guess it is possible.
Canon is quite large, but reading is important, yes.

>>7345594
>If Virginia Woolf was male, she would be considered better than Joyce
debatable; i'll allow it

>George RR Martin is one of the greatest living writers
only edgy on /lit/, and even here, i suspect a lot of people hate him because they're supposed to. so not that edgy overall.

>Passages from the bible should still be taught in school.
common opinion

>Gaddis and Pynchon are the same person.
uhm..what? ok not bad.

>Sylvia Plath's death wasn't suicide.
elaborate

>>7345600
>That "hurr nothing is objective everything is nothing" garbage is good for nothing, and if you can't understand that even though there is no way to be 100% sure of anything we can still work on probabilities, you're as good as the Atlas Shrugged villains.

common opinion. there's a reason why there is so much debate about this and related topics.

>Also, Atlas Shrugged is a badly written book but its message is spot on, essential, even.
only edgy among liberals and the internet, not edgy in the broader population

> Humans driven by fear and emotions are the root of all evil.
uh...sure i guess. i don't think it's -that- edgy since plenty of people argue for more logic and objectivity, but sure whatever

>The existence of Tumblr, "political correctness" and "triggers" proves it.
m8 where've you been this is super popular opinion

>literature should be more important than math in schools
>new atheists and their literature have never ranked above pure garbage

>>7345516
>>7345530
>>7345574
>>7345599
this is the only guy playing the game right
by disagreeing with everyone else, he is proving how edgy he is
bravo

>>7345525
Name of the Wind isn't unreadable, but it is a pile of shit.
Jane Austen is a classic, regardless of my dislike for her. There must be something good about her that people like after all these years.
Lacann was a phony, but I don't know how fat it was.
Medieval philosophy is the pinnicle of philosophy.

>>7345612
>literature should be more important than math in schools
good

>new atheists and their literature have never ranked above pure garbage
bad. very popular opinion.

david foster williams is talented, but obnoxious. he's a very clever man with a way with words, but at his core he's a cunt and it's all worthless blather when you strip away the endless layers of pretense and artifice. endlessly nested footnotes commenting on the meta aspects of your work do not excuse it

check the catalog fag

English is the logical conclusion to language, combining the best aspects of several great European languages. "Literature" in other languages today is for the most part a joke

>>7345551
/lit/ is the final refuge of intellectualism so we're all that matters.

>>7345619
>david foster williams is talented, but obnoxious. he's a very clever man with a way with words, but at his core he's a cunt and it's all worthless blather when you strip away the endless layers of pretense and artifice. endlessly nested footnotes commenting on the meta aspects of your work do not excuse it

only edgy on /lit/, and even then only somewhat.

>>7345611
I just posted an opinion, I could try to be edgier but I prefer being honest.

pynchon fucking sucks

>>7345626
TRIGGERED

>>7345626
>English is the logical conclusion to language, combining the best aspects of several great European languages. "Literature" in other languages today is for the most part a joke
good, probably edgiest opinion so far. i hope you actually believe it.

>>7345635
>I just posted an opinion, I could try to be edgier but I prefer being honest.
that's fine. being edgy for the sake of being edgy is the worst.

>>7345638
>pynchon fucking sucks
edgy on /lit, not really overall

>>7345599
Other people think Kafka's the funniest author they've read? Interesting. At least I got one. I don't know if I have any more potentially "edgy" opinions.

>>7345626
Wow holy fuck triggered
English is a fucking abomination of a language, starting with the fucking retarded spelling system. "B-but it preserves the roots!" Nobody fucking cares for roots except the linguists who would be reading about the old words, and most Romance-latin descendant languages can see their words in pronounciation anyway.
Non-phonetic alphabetical spelling is fucking cancer.

Sorrows of Young Werther is an annoying, disgustingly purple, My Twisted World-tier piece of shit.

Some writers like Stephenie Meyer, John Green and whoever wrote I am Number Four and 50 Shades should be legally prosecuted for their writing. They should be punished by having their fingers smashed and their tongues cut out to prevent any further storytelling and writing. (yes, yes, [[Lavinia intensifies]]) (Iactually mean this. Not only is their writing terrible to the point of being intellectually toxic, but they are terrible people themselves, money-grabbing opportunists or, at best, retards.)

Was this edgy enough?

>>7345652
>b...but it's not logical
muh autism

>>7345658
TRIGGERED AGAIN
pls leave

>>7345655
>Sorrows of Young Werther is an annoying, disgustingly purple, My Twisted World-tier piece of shit.
common opinion.

>Some writers like Stephenie Meyer, John Green and whoever wrote I am Number Four and 50 Shades should be legally prosecuted for their writing. They should be punished by having their fingers smashed and their tongues cut out to prevent any further storytelling and writing. (yes, yes, [[Lavinia intensifies]]) (Iactually mean this. Not only is their writing terrible to the point of being intellectually toxic, but they are terrible people themselves, money-grabbing opportunists or, at best, retards.)
very very common opinion.

>Was this edgy enough?
not really no

>>7345628
10/10 this wins

>Salinger is not a good writer. There is no discernible talent
>Nobody should actually read Finnegans Wake
>There should be more metafiction
>There should be more serious fiction books which incorporate other media

>>7345658
The oral portion of a language cannot be fully logical, even though Turkish is extremely regular, but spelling systems exist literally to describe the actual language (the oral form). Using alphabets and not writing phonetically is stupid. If you want the word to look like an idea and not like a spelling, go with ideograms.

I'm reading Ulysses right now and I think IJ was better.

IJ is life affirming. Ulysses is just sympathy for everything, its sympathetic, but not even in a Walt Whitman way, its just like passive sympathy as if thats all he saw was life sliding by and noticing and smiling.

Its honestly kind of depressing to read. Thank god he does not go full blown kek tier passive like Eliot, despite the book having actual kek characters.


Also Blood Meridian is Cannon and the most important work of fiction in the last 50 years

most writing that's good is only considered "good" you're reading it in the book in front of you, thereby subconsciously making you think it's good because the author is reputed/got published/whatever
`

>>7345670
>Salinger is not a good writer. There is no discernible talent
not edgy at all

>Nobody should actually read Finnegans Wake
FW is polarizing, plenty of people feel the same

>There should be more metafiction
eh. not common but also not edgy.

>There should be more serious fiction books which incorporate other media
not edgy at all many reasonable people think this

>>7345667
Fuck off, retarded pleb

>>7345678
Not really, I go into most books blindly and I've hated many writers who I later found out were very damn important.
Unrelated: I found a story by Carol Oates that is literally Cheever's Reunion. Hacks like Oates ought to be sent to work in a farm or something.

The only reason Paul Auster is published is because he is a postmodernist Jew

>>7345665
>very very common opinion.
>wanting to torture the most popular writers of this century is very common

>Everyone here is just a STEM dropout crying sour grapes.
>If you're over 23 and still post here regularly you should be deeply ashamed of yourself
>Your favorite book sucks, no really I know its either Infinite Jest or Lord of the Rings and ones sophomoric drivel and the other is escapist fiction with no substance.
>Reading doesn't make you smarter, only feel smarter
Top this edge

>>7345738
nothing here is edgy, only cringey

>>7345594
>Gaddis and Pynchon are the same person.
They're distinctively different writers, and photographs exist of both.
>>7345738
>Everyone here is just a STEM dropout crying sour grapes.
I have both of my degrees in STEM and I work in STEM.
>If you're over 23 and still post here regularly you should be deeply ashamed of yourself
Why?
>Your favorite book sucks, no really I know its either Infinite Jest or Lord of the Rings and ones sophomoric drivel and the other is escapist fiction with no substance.
I hate both of them with a moderate passion.
>Reading doesn't make you smarter, only feel smarter
According to you?

>>7345738
>tfw I have become too old for 4chan

I've been on this site for like 7-8 years...

Where must I turn to, I've known you all my life ;_;

>>7345738
>Implying people ever leave

lol

>J.R.R Tolkien and C.S Lewis were both occultists
>Camus was murdered by the Soviet Union
>Dickens novel's are overwritten; he was paid by the word.
>Frankenstein is an allegory for child birth
>The Count of Monte Cristo is a jesuit allegory
>Lewis Carrol was Jack the Ripper

>>7345741
What's the difference?

Trayvon was a good boy he dindu nuffin

>>7345786
>>Frankenstein is an allegory for child birth
Oh, fuck...

>>7345769
>discover 4chan when I'm 15
>stop posting when I start university 'cuz no time
>graduate
>go on reddit for a while, get sick of it
>rediscover 4chan
>tfw i'm 25 now

I can see myself staying still being here in 10 year 2bh.

>>7345698
I mean, you wanted edgy...

>>7345789
Edgy

.>>7345807
This reading has been around for decades.

>>7345786
>>7345807
That's the pleb interpretation, patricians see it as an allegory of the Romantic hero.

>>7345820
depends, there is somewhere I need to go for some interesting ideas and discussion. Though I have to say 4chan is getting worse by the day. If I don't have 4chan I must turn somewhere else, and reddit definitely isn't the answer

Thomas Pynchon doesn't exist and he never did

Bret Easton Ellis is the new William S Burroughs - he even has the self-loathing homosexuality.

Sherlock Holmes was the YA fiction of its time.

Shakespeare was a pseudonym for the Duke of York at the time.

HP Lovecraft was an anthropomorphic dog.

Ryu Murakami is much better than Haruki Murakami.

Rap is the most important form of vocal poetry and modern-day literature that America has given the world and deserves to be canonised.

Hitler was an african american in white face.

>>7345855
>Ryu Murakami is much better than Haruki Murakami
does anyone who's read both authors really believe otherwise?
ryu is pretty fucking edgy though so i'll give it to you

>>7345857
I hope they don't.

But thank you, yes Ryu is a dirty old man and I love it.

A man in western society stands on a taut shoestring, two canyons ablaze on either side, one condensed in the image of a drug addict and the other condensed in the image of a businessman.

Márquez is massively overrated

Cortázar's short stories > Borges' short stories

Existentialism is extremely flawed in its premises and Sartre is a fucking joke

dostoevsky, proust, gogol, chekov, dickens, nabokov, orwell, chaucer, mishima, cervantes, de sade, conrad and melville were all shit

Philosophical literature should be introduced into the education system at a young age and the reading should become more difficult/philosophical as you enter a new grade.

Starting with introducing Plato in late elementary/early middle school all the way up to Kant, Hegel, Heidegger, & Husserl rounding out senior year of high school.

We need to begin educating the masses to fundamentally better the system, rather than keeping the system at a plateau by preparing students for the workforce/office jobs.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has successfully been normalized and is therefore of inferior cognitive status.

>>7345877
Not very edgy.

>>7345855
>Rap is the most important form of vocal poetry
Extremely popular and accepted view in academia where it's actually studied in poetry classes.

>>7345877
What of Dostoevsky have you read in full?

>>7345883
Best post in the thread.

Literature's only purpose should be entertainment. Not saying it should be cheap entertainment, but "artistic value" is an empty term. Art doesn't exist.

>>7345883

This is just a good idea. Unfortunately good education is invariably subversive, with the result that powerful institutions involved in the act of educating are incapable of delivering it except by complete accident.

>American flag in every classroom
>recite pseudo-religious patriotism oath every morning
>study American history

I was walking through an elementary school the other day and they had the walls decorated with letters to soldiers.

>>7345883
what a contrarian opinion

>>7345889
Oh okay, wasn't aware, that's not so much the case in the UK where I live (at least it wasn't when I was in full-time education). That's good to hear, anon.

John Scalzi, China Miéville and Neal Stephenson are intolerably overtly political.

>>7345905
youd be surprised bruh

>>7345890
brothers karamazov, the double, notes from the underground and the idiot.

>>7345888
ok

>>7345698
He's pretty bad but lots of bad writers are published, Jewish or not. You win the prize!

>>7345501
Lispector is a better writer than Woolf.

Ayn Rand>Dostoevsky>Nabokov>Chekov>Tolstoy>Dante>Milton>Felicia Day>James Joyce

>>7345550
>Setting is one of the most important considerations for a writer

I've just spent my evening gathering reference pictures for the setting of my novella. Not sure I'd consider it one of the most important considerations however.

>>7345594
>If Virginia Woolf was male, she would be considered better than Joyce

Perhaps not 'better' than , but I can get behind the general premise of this.

>>7345612
>literature should be more important than math in schools

Art, in general, should be given a greater focus.

>>7345786
>Lewis Carrol was Jack the Ripper
Maybe if his victims had been younger...

>>7345877
No.

>>7345916
>>7345698
Is Paul Auster actually that shit? He was recommended to me a bunch of times on here.

>>7345938
what's wrong, TOO TRIGGERED????

>>7345910
>good

>>7345943
The material he writes about is just incredibly tedious and his prose is maybe slightly above middling.

>>7345943
Nah. He is a "hit-or-miss" kind of author though. His translations of major French poets -- Revery, Verlaine, Rimbaud, Mallarme, and some Apollinaire -- are excellent.

>>7345889
How is modern academia not edgy as fuck?

>Isaac Newton is evil because he is a white cis male

Wordsworth is the most talentless poet in the canon

Tennyson sucks dick, Browning is rad

Most white authors simply stole their ideas from the folklore of other cultures. James Joyce is one of few to refrain

>>7345954
Yes.

I HATE YOU ALL GO AWAY ASS!!!

>>7345961
Name one academic who actually supports that position

>>7345501
>2666 is just biased anti-american literature
>shakespeare is only loved because of old-english
>catcher in the rye is great and holden is a relatable character for all ages, and all those who disagree live in denial
>dfw was more interesting than his work
>palahniuk is fun
>vonnegut is fun and smart
>yiddish policemans union was shit
>burgess is one of the only english author worth reading and studying
>100 years of solitude should be mandatory in highschool literature
>sade is good
>marx is good
>stirner is good
>rand is good
>moby dick should be mandatory for highschool literature
>shakespeare should be taken out of highschool literature
>critical theory should be taught in highschool
>atomic theory is the only single thing one should have to learn to really understand the universe
>i could probably kick dfw's ass

>>7345955
>>7345957
Is the New York Trilogy worth reading? It's what I was always told to read.

>>7345969
this is only what i think most would call me edgey for

>>7345969
Now you're just deliberately saying untrue things.

>>7345964
Fuck off

>>7345969
> I could probably kick dew's ass

If you don't know for definite if you could kick a skeleton's ass then you'd probably still get your ass handed to you

>>7345961
It's actually one of the few redeeming aspects of poetry in Academia, at least they're willing to teach something popular instead of requiring their students to purchase of a author whose sales figures aren't out of the three digits.

>>7345974
No.

>>7345969
>rand is good
this isn't edgy, just popular idiot thought
>2666 is biased
if I lived in any Latin America country forced to deal with the US instituting dictators, i'd be biased too
>the bard is only loved cuz old-english
then why isn't the Canterbury Tales wanked off?

>>7345976
>at least they're willing to teach something popular
Fuck off, that's terrible.
>>7345978
Yes

>>7345969
>>moby dick should be mandatory for highschool literature
>>shakespeare should be taken out of highschool literature
10/10, I kekked

>>7345968
Random community college professors that don't know what they are doing. Noel Ignatiev said that the white race should be bred out of existence and he has tenure at Harvard

>>7345968
Check the news? seriously just yesterday a professor tried to get another student to beat up another student because he was apart of the patriarchy.

>>7345981
No.

Chekov is better than Dostoevsky though.

reading is for dorks

>>7345855
>Rap is the most important form of vocal poetry and modern-day literature that America has given the world and deserves to be canonised.
Nope

sex is not evil

>>7346002
>people think this isn't patrician
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETfiUYij5UE

>>7346006
not true, sorry but see u in hell

>>7346014
fuck

>Edgar Allan Poe is the greatest short story writer of all time (though Chekhov is a close second).
>Tolstoy wrote pitiful didactic garbage.
>James Joyce had immense talent but he wasted it on faddish nonsense like Stream of Consciousness.

>>7345990
Yes

>>7346040
No.

>>7346043
Yes

>>7346044
No.

>>7346052
Yes

>>7346053
No.

>>7346056
Maybe

>>7346060
I don't know what to believe anymore.

Those who compare authors (x author is better than y) fail to understand context (of time, setting, political history, socioeconomic status) and, perhaps, miss the importance of literature beyond the writing style and even theme.

Only plebs compare authors.

>>7346060

i don't know

>>7346078
Can you repeat the question?

>>7346060
What a twist.

>>7346080
YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME NOW

>>7346080
YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME NOW

we full reddit boys

books shouldn't be arranged by the color of the fucking cover.
you would only do this to show your collection off and
>dat rainbow

if you arrange your collection by color, i automatically assume you've read less than 5% of your personal library. and i assume you are of lesser intelligence than the average anon.

>>7345501
You like Finnegan's Wake and don't like Ulysses? And then would go on to place Dubliners and Portrait above Ulysses? You've got weird unbalanced tastes senpai. Mind justifying it?

Education is worthless if you're not smart.

>>7346093
He is probably just so stupid he forgot FW was a thing

>>7345963

We own folklore!

Pretty white idea there... Whitewashed much?

>>7346089
Why is making a joke that isn't stewed in a hot bath of irony now automatically considered reddit?

>>7345969
>2666 is just biased anti-american literature
Somewhat true.
>Shakespeare is only loved because of old-English
He also wrote the greatest plays of all time.
>Catcher in the rye is great and Holden is a relatable character for all ages
Agreed; but Holden is only relatable if you read it at the right age.
>dfw was more interesting than his work
I challenge you to name something more interesting than a tennis match involving one of the players holding a gun to their head.
>Palahniuk is fun
True; that doesn't mean he's good

>Vonnegut is fun and smart
Define "smart"
>Yiddish Policeman's union was shit
Not edgy
>Burgess is one of the only english authors worth reading and studying
Who are the others, and does that include poets?
>100 years of solitude should be mandatory in high school
Agreed
>Sade is good
Common opinion
>Marx is good
Common opinion
>Stirner is good
Common opinion, he was /lit/'s top meme for a while.
>rand is good
somewhat common opinion
>moby dick should be mandatory for highschool
Any student who actually cares about literature should just read these books on their own time, the majority of the class will use sparknotes.
>Shakespeare should be taken out of high school
Never gonna happen
>Critical theory should be taught in high school
Agreed
>Atomic theory is the only thing one should learn to understand the universe
Maybe if you're autistic
>I could probably kick DFW'S ass
Johnathan Franzen would stop you

>Virgil
>The Aeneid
>squeeing Grecophile fan fiction intended to glorify Rome by ripping off Greece
>every episode is the protag encountering something Odysseus did and then "doing it EVEN BETTER and proving Rome is relevant and connected to but even more awesome than Greece!"
>embarrassed Virgil so badly that he wanted it burned after he died
>it didn't get burned
>instead became the Book of Mormon of antiquity

>durians not apples
>rambutans not grapes
>mangosteens not peaches
>langsats not oranges
>jackfruit not pears
>woodapple not cranberries
>snakefruit not currents
>starfruit not avocado
>dragonfruit not persimmon
>longan not watermelon
>lychee not blueberry
>santol not banana
>breadfruit not blackberry
>noni not cantaloupe
>pomelo not grapefruit
>ciku (sapodillo) not pomegranate
>waterapple not quince
>nipah seeds not cloudberries
>guava not passionfruit
>soursop not kiwi
>pulasan not feijoa
>kaffir lime not kiwano melon
>sweetsop not granadilla
>sapote not kumquat
>yanmei not mango
>milkfruit not pineapple

Translated literature has no place in a language-specific literature class unless the work was translated by the author or approved by the author.

Universities should be outlawed

>>7346173
What's your reasoning?

>Saying 'the canon' is pretentious
>Ulysses is a genuinely good book full of intricacies and awesome language
>Same goes for Naked Lunch
>You can read philosophy in any order, if it doesn't apply to your current mental interests it won't stick, if it's what you're looking for, there you go
>That said, Sartre is a genius
>Dostoevsky is not an enjoyable read at all

Sorry for the beaner english

>Orwell is a fucking hack catering to liberals and Animal Farm could have been written by a 16 year old /pol/fag and has no value outside of fat americans reading it in highschool

>Lenin may have been the worlds greatest revolutionary but Stalin was the worlds best statesman and leader

> Neruda is the best poem of the 20th century

> Nietzsche is a glorified neckbeard

>Ramon Ribeyro is the best short story writter of south America

> Outside of the city and the dogs Vargas Llosa is a overrated

>Maoism third worldism is the correct interpretation of marxism-leninism and Mao Zedong thought and the only way to bring about revolution

>>7346177
This thread

>>7346191
>You can read philosophy in any order
what precisely do you mean by this?

Ha Jin is better at being Hemingway than Hemingway is

>>7346191
>Ulysses is a genuinely good book full of intricacies and awesome language
This isn't edgy. You're almost as bad as the idiot who said Updike was underrated.

>There are more essential writers in the SF/F genres today than there are in the "literary fiction" genre
>After some substantial amount (say, 50-100 well written books) reading more has absolutely no effect on your ability to write well, though it certainly may cause you to write differently. If you can't figure out the basics of how to write by then and with some work, you're just talentless.
>The novel is still the primary and most important literary form and will be for the forseeable future, at least 200 more years.
>A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man is Joyce's best work, and will endure in 500 years once Ulysses is considered a novelty of various writing experiments of varying success.
>Gaddis is an elitist and a hack, and did absolutely nothing that DeLillo or Pynchon didn't do better

>>7346318
Who are the essential SF/F writers today?

>>7346269
I'll take almost.
Ulysses gets shouted down a lot from what I've seen on here.

>>7346318
>>The novel is still the primary and most important literary form and will be for the forseeable future, at least 200 more years.
not edgy

>>7346318
>Gaddis is an elitist and a hack, and did absolutely nothing that DeLillo or Pynchon didn't do better
Wrong.

And he did it first.

>>7346320
Le Guin, Wolfe, Mieville, Chiang, Gibson, Robinson, Atwood, Delany, Pynchon (debatable but I'd put him there), Ishiguro (also on the line), DeLillo (even more debatable, okay probably doesn't belong here even though he did write one unabashed SF novel)

>>7345501
>>>>>>>EDGY

Contrarianism and contra-contrarianism are the fucking low-hanging fruit of critique.

>>7346357
yeah maybe honestly I just hate his shitty sneering sense of humor

>>7346377
Why?

It's not even dominating, it's just there.

I know I have a lot more edgy opinions than this, but here are the ones I can remember right now

>The contemporary, "PC" selection of canonical minority writers is designed to reinforce the bigoted assumptions it claims to undermine.
>Homestuck is the only significant work of hyperfiction, and possibly the most significant literary work of the millennium so far.
>Jonathan Franzen > David Foster Wallace, although DFW will always be remembered as a brilliant stylist.

>>7346192
even leaving aside the standard tankie claims about the famines/purges etc.

>world's best statesman and leader
>make alliance with Hitler
>what could possibly go wrong?
>Hitler backstabs and invades you, but it's fall and hey all you have to do is put up a normal amount of resistance and soon his armies will be trapped in the infamous Russian winter
>shut yourself in your room like a NEET until your one competent/living general convinces you to do something and the Germans are literally at the gates of Moscow

>>7346117
I ship Jonathan Franzen and DFW desu

>>7346382
it gets dominating in his later work - in Frolic and Carpenter's Gothic it's practically the whole novel. too much of it in JR for me too. Recognitions is the only book of his I can stand and his elitism comes out in a different way in that one

>>7346369
Thanks. I could only think of Le Guin and Wolfe.

black people are nice and i like to read about them

>>7345984
>bred out of existence
>bred

[citation needed]

>We do not hate you or anyone else for the color of her skin. What we hate is a system that confers privileges (and burdens) on people because of their color. It is not fair skin that makes people white; it is fair skin in a certain kind of society, one that attaches social importance to skin color. When we say we want to abolish the white race, we do not mean we want to exterminate people with fair skin. We mean that we want to do away with the social meaning of skin color, thereby abolishing the white race as a social category. Consider this parallel: To be against royalty does not mean wanting to kill the king. It means wanting to do away with crowns, thrones, titles, and the privileges attached to them. In our view, whiteness has a lot in common with royalty: they are both social formations that carry unearned advantages.

>>7346148
>>kaffir lime not kiwano melon
not edgy at all, you pleb

>>7346420
>bred out of existence
This is a common phrase on /pol/ and it means supplanting a typically white population with immigrant persons until the whiteness is essentially washed out in a sea of genetic diversity.

Not that I imagine this is happening but its a pretty well established meme on the chans

reading the "canon" is not "enjoyable" or fun
you know whats "enjoyable"?
Malcolm Gladwell and Margaret Atwood books

>>7346452
That shit gets a pretty decent rise out of me because the history of humanity is pretty much defined by periods of migration and movement. Even great empires rose, persisted and fell in time with human movements.

Europe's been 'theirs' for about as long as it took them to trundle down from the North and kill as many Mediterraneans as possible.

You can't call yourself a DFW fan if you haven't read Oblivion

Watching Looney Tunes is more interesting and more worthwhile than reading Pynchon
McCarthy is a hack and people only like him because of his oh-so-serious writing style
People who can't handle the geometrical reasoning of Spinoza's Ethics don't deserve good philosophy

>>7346420
With respect to that green text quote, do these same people want to "destroy" the black, brown, or yellow races in the same way? Because it seem to me that the only attack is on whiteness and the "white race."

>>7346399
You're a fucking idiot, a non-aggression pact is literally what allies would never do, it means tensions are so high you need to sing a pact, also there are records of him meeting with generals after the invasion

>>7345525
cancer

>>7345969
One of the few posts itt that actually shows some edgy opinions. The rest is people posting opinions they don't like just to call them ~le edge meme~

I like books, but reading isn't fun.

It's very tedious in fact

>>7346633
Are you one of those dreadful audiobook people?

>>7346637
When I was a child I enjoyed audiobooks, but now I'm not a child anymore.

>there exists an objective truth in art
>critical consensus 100% always reflects the opposite of that objective truth.

Scientology rocks

>>7346708
lol agreed tbqh

>>7345525
You're just posting facts anon

The Middle Ages were the high point of thinking and writing in the West, and the Protestant Reformation was an enormous mistake.

>Novels have like 20 years left in them. For me, they're just a thing to do while we wait for simulated reality to overtake everything
>Climate change is a hoax, and that no one can write about it well is due to this fact
>British literature is nearly totally devoid of quality. The only British writer I rate is Virginia Woolf and maybe Shakespeare, but only as a poet
>Straight people are inherently limited as writers. There's a talent-ceiling for them and it's lower than that of queer people

If the classical is walking and modernism is a bicycle, post-modernism is just the bicycle with reflectors, horn, tassels, sparkle paint, pinwheels etc. It's a sham, a farce, a fraud.
I know what it's distracting us from, but I'll leave it to you to figure out.

>>7346981
it's there to make you think it'll be worth buying the bike even though you don't know how to ride

>>7347027
I've implied this already though :(

>>7346981
Thisis how I feel as well. Postmodernism never actually happened as its necessity, particularly from a dialectical standpoint, is dubious

>>7345883
Philosophy isnt for everyone, if everyone was forced through it they would just distort it and sully it

>>7345525
> Medieval philosophy and Aquinas specifically deserve more respect

OP said edgy opinions, not common sense ones.

>>7346500

>Watching Looney Tunes is more interesting and more worthwhile than reading Pynchon

I really want to use this on the next Pynchon fan I see irl and watch them trigger hard.

>>7345501
That libretto writers should be given more thought. Also, that if playwrights are included in the canon then so should libretto writers.

The only thing I hate more than anti-Communists are Communists.

t. /leftypol/

Women are reasonable and make valid points.

>>7346539
Is that not the proper corollary? I myself certainly hold that position tbqh

>>7346420

nice bait famiry. But why go to such lengths tho? A spoopy dump is enough to get the same point across

Quality != Quantity

You wouldn't think this to be "edgy", but in Hard SF quantity does equals quality and even hinting otherwise will elicit a massive barrage of insults.

>>7346981
I think post-modernism is genuine in the arts as a shift of emphasis from the real and firsthand to the virtual and meta. Movies as distillations and mutations of tropes and cliches and what "movies have come to be" instead of original plots and dramatizations of actual events that had some basis in fact.

>>7345855
Rap is a joke.

>>7346357
Fuck off Gaddisfag

>>7347109
I'm not offended, and I'm a fanboy. Looney Toons is fantastic.

>>7345855
Nobody argues otherwise about Sherlock Holmes.

Nabokov is proficient but his writing is sterile (at least with someone like Updike there's conviction to what they're saying)
Updike is underrated
Ovid is better than Virgil (statist hack)
Adorno is overrated and is generally on the same level Sartre

>>7346369
Don't forget Larry Niven, Harlan Ellison(Dangerous Visions), Neal Stephenson…

occasional book burning is good

>but where they burn books there will be a pile of burning humans

i hope so

>Hugo is better than Shakespeare
>the Western canon sucks for poetry, poetical works in Arabic, Persian and Turkish languages are much better
>the so called "sjw" movement is actually beneficial for literature as it opens news areas of literary inquiry
>most memes are stale and unfunny
>in many ways, we're more patrician than our ancestors were

>>7348047
>the so called "sjw" movement is actually beneficial for literature as it opens news areas of literary inquiry
I like being censored hurr durr durr stop oppressing me with your words.

>>7345626
I've seen people defend this in earnest. Not sure how edgy it is given a lot of foreigner nowadays choose to write in English (plus "literature in others language today" is not precisely at its highest point, and neither is English lit).

>>7345635
>being honest in an edgy thread

Fucking triggered

>>7345652
You could say the same about French. That'd be accurate (French spelling is a bit of a clusterfuck sometimes) and that'd be more edgy.

>>7345877
p edgy I think. You won't find many people that dislike all those authors at once (you won't even find many people that care actually care enough about all those authors to explicitly dislike them).

>>7345961
Everyone know Newtion is evil because he was a greedy plagiarist occultist who purposedly persecuted Leibniz for no other reason than unwarranted saltiness. Being white and male is actually one of his few qualities.

>>7346020
Good one. Unpopular but not entirely baseless opinions phrased in confrontational style.

>>7346117
>I challenge you to name something more interesting than a tennis match involving one of the players holding a gun to their head.

A guy holding a gun to his head in front of a crowd (or anywhere else really). Tennis is boring as fuck.

>>7347949
Sounds opinions.

>>7348053
I guess you're giving me a 10/10 ?
Not a bait, btw. You could argue that literature, or at least literature criticism in the US (because sjws are mostly a US thing) was already turning to shit and/or irrelevance before the sjw outbreak. So at least our little rainbow-colored friends are bringing some fresh in an almost dead field.

>tfw all you non-Esperanto speaking plebs

You're still wallowing in the mire...

Akiri sur mia nivelo plebeyos.

>Some art is objectively better than the rest
>anyone who disagrees is a retard who thinks art of all things isn't supposed to be elitist and that distinctions and categories don't exist because the prospect of not measuring up to a universal standard scares the shit out of them