/lit/ - Literature

>plebs have pleb taste
Any other revelations? I'll give you two to get you going: grass is green and cow says moo

>>7338389
>>7338389
>Heart of Darkness

ugh. That is a terrible story. It should be burned.

All those dead male writers who used problematic words like the n-word and were racist should be burned.

Anyone who likes Joseph Conrad or even worse, Ernest Hemingway are just over privileged white males and they need to be silenced.

>>7338389
Someone in a lit class said HoD was his least favorite book and I almost vommed

>>7338389
>few years back in highschool
>few years back
>high school
That's clever, I'll give you that. Haven't seen that one before.

Don't have any stories, really. I have always been very open about my reading/writing with classmates, family and friends. A lot of them don't know anything about literature nor they'd care to, but they will listen to what you have to say if you're good enough at talking about it. I mean, I made people whose idea of a literary masterpiece was the Night Watch series by that russian guy check out Infinite Jest or Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas or Naked Lunch or Joan Didion or hell, even Nietzsche, Cioran or Manganelli just by being passionate and interesting in my descriptions. Have I read more than them, am I more intelligent, do I write better? Good, then let's bring people to what I like, even if it takes effort or it makes you look like a dork. I can't even count the number of time people told me they can't understand me just because I use words like chtonic, katabatic or suppurant just because they're appropriate for what I'm talking about, but that doesn't mean they're ostracizing you or anything. Tell them what you mean, entrance them, whatever. I've found that precious few people are the unassailable bastions of willing illiteracy these stories depict.

>>7338389
Hint: 90% of people are really dumb. This includes me and a large portion of /lit/. Stop getting upset--accept it. You'll be happier for it.

>drop out bac/GED course
>reading Hamlet for English
>teacher assigns rote essays on themes, characters, speeches for class to learn off
>really like Shakespeare
>love English books
>fuck this I'm going to write my own essay and get A+
>reading theses from the 70s and all kinds of shit about Denmark
>flesh out a theory on the play as a precursor to the style of Jacobean tragedy
>original_research.exe
>check against scholarship just in case i'm being retard
>seems legit
>hand it up
>teacher calls me up after next class
>'wtf is this shit? why didn't you learn an essay?'
>B+ 'i guess'
>'stop using passive reference that's not how you quote'
>tfw will never revenge play her
why live?

>>7338978
Blatant bait, but it reminded me of something I found quite bizarre.
I'm currently reading 'The Nigger of the 'Narcissus'' by Conrad, and I saw that one of the versions was literally renamed 'The N-Word of the 'Narcissus'; not only that, but the word 'nigger' was censored from the book completely, and was actually replaced with 'N-word' in all instances.

So instead of 'the nigger's eyes rolled wildly' it would be 'the n-word's eyes rolled wildly'.

A dead white European male was teaching a class on English literature, known tool of imperialist oppression.
“Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship King Leopold II, greatest monarch the world has ever known, even greater than James Monroe!”

At this moment, a black, female, transgendered, cis-hetero-homoflexible Latino transvestite man who has over 20,000 Tweets and 12,000 Tumblr posts stood up and held up an novel.

“What is this book?”

The professor smirked oppressively and smugly replied “Heart of Darkness, by Polish-British writer Joseph Conrad, an intelligent and insightful study of the primitive mind of the African peoples.”

“Wrong. The book is a racist and oppressive piece of propaganda designed to dehumanize the proud peoples of the African continent. Conrad is a bigot. If the book truly had merit as you claimed, Oprah would’ve reviewed it on her show already.”

The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and Iron Cross. He stormed out of the room crying those DWEM crocodile tears.

The students applauded and all registered Republican that day and accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. An eagle named “Small Government” flew into the room and perched atop the American Flag and shed a tear on the chalk. The pledge of allegiance was read several times, and God himself showed up and enacted a flat tax rate across the country.

The students applauded and all registered Marxist that day and accepted Martin Luther King Jr. as their lord and savior. An okapi pounced into the room and stood next to a south-up map centered around Africa. The students joined hand in hand and sang Toto’s Africa several times, and Jesse Jackson, king of all black people, showed up to enact affirmative action across the country.

The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of a giant black nigger dick up his ass was tossed into the Sahara desert for all eternity.

That student’s name? Chinua Achebe.

Hakuna Matata.

>>7339172
Yes, you are correct in your assessment of the bait.

However, things like what you are describing trigger me so hard.

These fucking PC version of the KKK need to be stopped

>read Catcher in the Rye for high school
>actually quite moved by the book and find Holden to be a sad and sympathetic figure
>teacher barely teaches the book and just assumes everyone hates the book
>during a class discussion, turns out that everyone but me really does hate the book
>they complain the same shit about Holden being whiny
>speak up for the first time and say that I actually like the book
>people laugh and someone says something like, "Of course you like the book. You're just like Holden!"
>people laugh some more and teacher does nothing about it
>for the next few days, people make jokes about me wanting to kill John Lennon and I end up being an even bigger oucast than before

>>7339185
>DWEM

Google DWEM

>It's worse than I thought

[in] the postmodern period....Traditional literature has been found to have been written by "dead white males" to serve the ideological aims of a conservative and repressive Anglo hegemony....In an array of reactions against the race, gender, and class biases found to be woven into the tradition of Anglo lit, multicultural writers and political literary theorists have sought to expose, resist, and redress injustices and prejudices. These prejudices are often covert – disguised in literature and other discourses as positive ideals and objective truths – but they slant our sense of reality in favor of power and privilege.[1]

>>7339216
A dead white European male was teaching a class on English literature, known tool of imperialist oppression.
“Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship King Leopold II, greatest monarch the world has ever known, even greater than James Monroe!”

At this moment, a black, female, transgendered, cis-hetero-homoflexible Latino transvestite man who has over 20,000 Tweets and 12,000 Tumblr posts stood up and held up an novel.

“What is this book?”

The professor smirked oppressively and smugly replied “Heart of Darkness, by Polish-British writer Joseph Conrad, an intelligent and insightful study of the primitive mind of the African peoples.”

“Wrong. The book is a racist and oppressive piece of propaganda designed to dehumanize the proud peoples of the African continent. Conrad is a bigot. If the book truly had merit as you claimed, Oprah would’ve reviewed it on her show already.”

The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and Iron Cross. He stormed out of the room crying those DWEM crocodile tears.

The students applauded and all registered Marxist that day and accepted Martin Luther King Jr. as their lord and savior. An okapi pounced into the room and stood next to a south-up map centered around Africa. The students joined hand in hand and sang Toto’s Africa several times, and Jesse Jackson, king of all black people, showed up to enact affirmative action across the country.

The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He died of a giant black nigger dick up his ass was tossed into the Sahara desert for all eternity.

That student’s name? Chinua Achebe.

Hakuna Matata.

>>7338978
I love Conrad for this exact reason.

All of the pesto intellectual faggots who have infected academia HATE him, yet nobody can deny his talent.

His prose is fucking majestic. Lord Jim and Nostromo are two of my favorite books. The Secret Agent was also pretty good.

>>7339222
Post it again, you faggot

People like you should be burned at the stake

I've never quite understood what "the horror" referred to. Colonisation? Life in the jungle?
Could someone explain that to me please.

>>7339280
niggers. it means niggers.

>>7339231
What else does he have apart from prose? Showing it off is all he does.

>>7339280
I interpret it as being organized humanity. What is the city but a gilded jungle?

>>7339284
He wrote perfect portraits of the greatness of the spirit of the white man.

>>7339294
Don't post such codswallop; did you even read Heart of Darkness?
>>7339284
Try reading on of his works critically--he's no purple prosist.

>>7339222
kek'd

>>7339172
I will never understand this. We all know what the 'N-word' is and, therefore, become aware of the word 'nigger'. The writer has written a phrase which conveys the word in our head anyway, the same effect has occurred. Writing 'N-word' makes as much sense as writing 'nigga'.

>>7339197

We're all gonna make it anon.

>>7339222

>teacher is pink-haired liberal who always talked about her kids (she had them in college) and her abusive father
>listen to slam poetry every day
>tells the class she knows they don't read books and neither does she
>always makes class skip chapters and listen to audio recordings of books
I had the cunt three years in a row; obviously didn't have the faintest interest or insight in literature.

>>7339053
>I can't even count the number of time people told me they can't understand me
>just because I use words like chtonic, katabatic or suppurant

And yet it's never occurred to you to modify your fancy diction so normal people will understand you

>>7339197
kek

>>7339197
I'll have to read it again. I think it was lost on me. I didn't find anything to hate about the book but I didn't find anything to like about it either. It sounded perfectly reasonable to me that the job he wanted was to catch people in the rye. Maybe it's my autism.

A girl in my year eleven "advanced" english class wasn't aware of what september 11 was.

Another student was giving a presentation (I can't remember what on, probably the middle east) and one of his powerpoint slides had a picture of a plane crashing into the twin towers.

The girl put up her hand and asked whether the events depicted in the photo had actually occurred.

Everyone in the class made fun of her for it.

Aside from that she was nice enough and actually did quite well in school. What struck me as bizarre was how someone could remain unaware of something as crucial to the modern history of the West as 9/11 for such a long time.

We live in australia. This happened in 2010.

>>7341325
>1 year before 9/11
>she doesn't know about it
gee I wonder why

>>7339231

Bukowski is a great writer because other than 'the topics he wrote about are mean and oppressive' most people can't articulate how he was a bad writer. I guess to know that it would be required to have read some of his work, which most 'dead white male' types haven't done.

>>7341330
I've lol't

>>7341325

haha. i'm in australia too and heaps of people just don't learn shit about modern history. when my friend's sister was in year nine they read 'the boy in striped pyjamas' and she asked 'what does the ending mean, like do they just go for this walk and then come back? where are they walking? also why is the kid wearing pyjamas the whole book?'

she was 14 years old and literally never heard of the holocaust and didn't know what a nazi was.

>>7339000
trips confirm

>>7339099
>Teacher sets assignment on specific themes, characters, speeches
>You ignore the task and do your own thing.

Come on, what were you expecting?

>>7339099
post your essay here. until confirmed otherwise it was probably garbage and a B+ was just your teacher feeling sorry for your autistic ass

>>7341567
>>7341674
>tfw realise years later how shit a GED is compared with international baccalaureate
lol thanks guys

>>7341280
And just like that, anon missed the point. Why should I change it? I'd explain what the word means and talk about why I used it (the answer would usually be, it conveyed exactly what I wanted to say. Katabatic is a perfectly fine word to describe a downward journey, a literal or metaphorical descent, with the added benefit of bringing to mind works like the Comedy). Most of the time people ARE interested in that kind of shit, if you don't refuse to explain with a condescending sneer or with autistic aphasia.

>>7338389
You should've told the teacher not to spoil it, most teachers aren't assholes enough to spoil it if somebody in the class actually enjoyed it.

Sounds like everyone in the class is a pleb and that's fine: people like that only exist to procreate. You're one of the few chosen ones who will live.

>>7342186
desu you sound pretty insufferably here, but I can see how it would be possible for you to have a normal life.

>>7342186
Wouldn't it be katabasic?

>>7339172
I remember seeing an interview with Samuel L Jackson on some TV show and he got some pissed when they kept saying "the N-word" - he said it was more racist that way because you're implying that the viewer already knows that word and is making them think it whenever they refuse to say it. He would try to encourage the people to say nigger on the show because he's one of those cool cats who really understands that using such a word excessively does actually remove its negative hold on people - it just becomes a word and that's that.

It was during promo times for Django Unchained and everyone getting in a hissy-fit because a white man wrote a story that said nigger over 200 times.

>>7339222
I feel guilty for laughing at this #yesallwhitemen

>>7339222
kek

>>7338389
I guess it's easy to hate on Conrad because m-m-muh racist old white guy.

>>7339222
>An okapi
Lost it here.

>>7342186
>Katabatic is a perfectly fine word to describe a downward journey, a literal or metaphorical descent, with the added benefit of bringing to mind works like the Comedy

Not really...

>>7342186
I see that you mentioned Wallace in your first post. Have you read his essay "Authority and American Usage"? (You should).

>>7342312
Yeah, may be full of shit there, sorry. English is my second language, and in my native (Italian) you can use it to say that. Care to amend my misconception?

>>7342315,
Yeah, I did. Kinda liked it, maybe one of the book's worst. Why did you rec it?

>>7342199
I'll take thay as a compliment, on /lit/

>>7339222
not bad

>>7340203

Not so bad but I had a creative writing teacher at university who loved Lena Dunham and really liked slam poetry. She at least had read books. She didn't know who John Forbes or Chris Wallace-Crabbe was, and they're arguably two of Australia's greatest poets. Wallace-Crabbe even taught at our university for some time. You'd think if you're going to be espousing shit about how great slam is you should at least have some background knowledge of poetry beyond having read 'ariel' once in highschool.

>>7338978
Like that asshole Twain. Racist piece of shit. People really teach his books in schools?

On the topic of HoD, how do people feel about the ending where he visits Kurtz's widow? It kinda feels out of place for me, and the only thing it really gives us is Marlow lying to her to make her feel good...is that really necessary?

Sophomore year of high school we had to read 1984
Everyone complained to the teacher that it sucked and was boring so she scraped the entire unit

>>7342312
It's just a hellenism from going down (katabaino), not bad, just unusual. Rolls off the tongue quite nicely. Suppurant ought to be known (or at least inferable from suppurate) by any educated native english speaker, and since it's from latin quite a lot of other people. Cthonic is just basic classics, understandably missed but not too high register, and with a good strong meaning to boot.

>>7338389
grow up idiot.

>>7339280
I felt that the horror referred to the darkness in all humans and especially in himself. How all humans in their core are animalistic beings capable of doing unspeakable things (things Kurtz himself actually saw and did in the jungle). And that the only thing keeping civilized men from becoming such is a thin layer of civilization. Even Kurtz himself, who was originally an accomplished and very esteemed man, was turned into a depraved tribal figure

how can I get watership down without paying? can't find it online, appreciated if anyone can help

>>7338978
>book blatantly sees the Africans through the lens of the Belgian occupiers
>reduced to parts and sounds and bits though they are, they are still undeniably human, and still without doubt best the cartoonish, jesterlike white men that accompany the narrator
>but it's racist because he says nigger and that makes Raykweesha feel triggered

Every single day, the people around me push me further and further towards reactionary thought, and I hate it.

>>7344424
Watch the cartoon instead my man.
No really, it's really great

>>7344469
seriously?

Heart of Darkness is a pretty slow burn. You have to really want to finish before you can understand what makes it so good. Kids in high school aren't always going to have that interest. Nothing surprising. Pretty shit teacher though.

>>7344233

We do have him explaining his view that women are weak and silly creatures that are incapable of comprehending, let alone handling the everyday realities that we men endure all our lives. Then he proceeds to make a pretty little story for her rather than break her perception of the world.

I suppose it also goes to cement the idea that all of the horrible things happening in africa are ignored back in europe.

>>7344479
Yeah

>>7338389

Not /lit/ class, but tangentially related.

:)

>>7344598
Jesus, that made me cringe more than I have in quite some time senpai.

>>7344419
>>7339287
Thanks

>>7338978
"PROBLEMATIC"

>>7344559
>We do have him explaining his view that women are weak and silly creatures that are incapable of comprehending

Yeah but then he sees the African woman who clearly doesn't leave that impression on him.

>>7339222
>The students joined hand in hand and sang Toto’s Africa several times
This is fucking gold

>>7344233
it has been a moment since I read this but isn't there a part in the beginning where Marlow expresses severe distaste about even the concept of lying?

>>7344247
> 1984
> Boring

Man, that sucks. For me, 1984 had me on the edge of my seat, eager to turn each page.

>>7344598
> "Sorry not sorry"

I don't understand what this means.

> "Too goddamn slow"

When did "slow" have such a negative connotation when tackling pacing? It's not a legitimate argument/criticism since it's more subjective: it's not Shakespeare's fault that hundreds of years down the line his work wasn't convenient enough for the Transformers-generation. His works are at a casual-pace, allowing atmosphere and character development. If you're to criticise pacing, focus more on whether it's consistent or not - does it develop at the same leisurely pace or is act I meandering and is act II too fast?

> "I didn't like any of the characters"

Not liking a character doesn't make them automatically a bad character - antagonists are often unlikeable but a good antagonist should have some character development to help the audience empathise with them and understand their motivation, whether they agree with it or not. Protagonists don't need to be likeable either to be fascinating (i.e. a psychologically-focused drama like The Piano Teacher, a film focusing on a sexually repressed piano tutor of a well-renowned music school).

> "misogynistic bullshit"

I've yet to read Hamlet myself so I don't know whether this is true or not, but if it is, it would've been a more common ideology at the time. It could also be something a writer might implement in their story for dramatic effect - maybe emphasising a point like how unlikeable a character is/challenging traditional values (i.e. writing about racism wouldn't make you a racist).

I'm embarrassed for people who don't understand how to evaluate properly - for every criticism there is a counter-criticism and these reactionary autistic fucks just don't seem to understand that if they don't like/appreciate a piece of work doesn't mean it shouldn't be appreciated by others.

>>7345143

>I've yet to read Hamlet myself so I don't know whether this is true or not

Hamlet chastises his mother, the queen, for being a slut for marrying her dead husbands brother. This taints Hamlet's view of women - he considers them all without honour or integrity, á la r9k.

Calling it misogynistic is pretty off though, for indeed, this tainted worldview is one of the tragic follies of Hamlet.

>>7345143
>I've yet to read Hamlet myself

senpai what are you doing? get off 4chan and go read

>>7345163

I'll second this, it's up there with the best I've read this year. Just finished Othello a moment ago too. Iago is pretty based.

I had a dream last night: I was riding a train home, the tracks were laid across a thick field of wheat and the train swam through it without a noise. The train was spacious, allowing more than 10 feet between each seat. I was reading or watching something initially, maybe a book or a tablet, and then I turned to stare outside the window, where I noticed beautifully built, recent homes that seemed to be drowning in the wheat.

The sort of homes you'd see on a long train or car journey, the ones where you imagine what it's like to live inside them. There was a large girl - early 20s I assume - standing by the window and vocally appreciating the homes, voicing my thoughts about imagining their interiors.

It was odd but she seemed to be wearing my bag - I usually travel with a bag, something to keep my book and a couple bottles of Pepsi, a sandwich, depends on the length of the journey. I asked her, almost whispering why my bag was on her back. She didn't say anything, but a rainbow-haired thin girl caught my throat and implied I had harmed the larger girl. She held a serrated blade in one hand, seemed like a kitchen knife you'd use to cut bread crust.

"Pardon?"

It was certainly seen as a threat - she grabbed my flaccid penis, asking insistently what it was and told me to apologise before she sliced away. I whispered an apology and both walked to another carriage - the larger girl still had my bag and flirtatiously implied to the rainbow-haired menace that her actions were inexcusable. It seemed superficial, of course, due to her flirtatious nature. I was left shaking in my seat, wondering if I should call for help.

This was legitimately a dream I had: it became more peculiar but such a threat early-on in my dream had actually stuck with me. I know it seems like legitimate SJW/radfem-bashing or whatever, but I don't think it's that. I think my concern for these reactionary types - their aggression and malice against a simple, rational conversation - has actually begun to haunt me.

>>7345163
>>7345171
I do plan on reading it, anons - I'm looking to purchase a complete Shakespeare hardback sometime as recently I've become very interested in his works and his complete works seem pretty affordable.

Currently reading Kurosawa's autobiography though and I'm so pleb that I must finish the book I'm currently reading before moving onto the next.

>>7345174
senpai wtf

>>7345174

>>7345174
Find a happy place, anon.

>>7345174
i'd be worried too if i had a dream like that

>>7345162
At least that "misogyny" was understandable and made Hamlet a more flawed, tragic and engaging character. I think people who complain about this sort of thing don't understand what it is to create a great character.

>>7345122
I did get to do my class project on it though, so at least I had that

"I fancy my unresponsive attitude must have exasperated him at last, for he judged it necessary to inform me he feared neither God nor devil, let alone any mere man. I said I could see that very well, but what I wanted was a certain quantity of rivets ..."

"Now letters went to the coast every week.... ‘My dear sir,’ he cried, ‘I write from dictation.’ I demanded rivets."

>>7345174
i think anon needs a hug

>>7339053
I would think more people would be inclined to read Thus Spoke Zarathustra than Naked Lunch anyway

High school english class discussions are cancer literally had a bitch ask if bush was president during 9/11 in an AP course

>>7345174
I know the feel anon, you just have to lose your faith in humanity to the point that people acting like subhumans doesnt even phase you any more.