/lit/ - Literature

have you been to the bad board my friend

it's just a name for the various post structural/deconstructionist phils of the mid 20th century. critical theory and what not

>>7295478
It started with a godawful article from the Schiller Institute (Larouche's douches) from 1992. Basically, the right-wing in America was looking for a new boogeyman after the USSR fell.

>>7295478
They all were ethnic jews, the starting point of the organisation was to prevent another holocaust happening.

A lot of nazi and general fascist ideas are based on the idea of a jewish conspiracy.

Thus they found new jewish enemies and applied their own narrative to the situation.

>>7295501
>the starting point of the organisation was to prevent another holocaust happening
what. no.

mods probably delete this while it's still in very-light-to-medium-shitshow mode

>>7295482
>it's just a name for the various post structural/deconstructionist phils of the mid 20th century.
Frankfurt School was anti-deconstruction. Why didn't right-wingers just go after the French postmodernists instead?

>>7295511
>Frankfurt School was anti-deconstruction.
You should probably re-read Benjamin's Task of the Translator.

>Why didn't right-wingers just go after the French postmodernists instead?
Take a guess.

>>7295506
>implying

The reason they invented critical reasoning is because they saw a flaw in the concept of rationality, because rationality taken to its logical extremes directly led to the holocaust.

It was all about the holocaust, and there is nothing wrong with that, i'm not stirring shit i'm just explaining it how it is.

>>7295523 (me)
*critical theory, not critical reasoning

>>7295506

>Mods delete this

>Oy vey! Shut it down!

>>7295523
>>7295529
Critical Theory pre-dates the Holocaust.

>>7295523
>>7295529
I'm guessing you get this from like a third-hand account of the Frankfurt School written by someone who read someone who has read them.

>>7295534
Does /pol/ think politics shit belongs on /lit/ because if so /pol/ is wrong

>>7295547
>I'm guessing you get this from like a third-hand account of the Frankfurt School written by someone who read someone who has read them.


No I've read plenty of Adorno, Horkheimer and Habermas.
And plenty of secondary literature.

I like the Frankfurt school, and agree with a lot of their positions as well.
I don't see what your issue is with saying pretty much all of them were greatly influenced by the holocaust, considering they were jews living in post-war germany.

>>7295568
I just have no idea where you get "the starting point of their organization was to prevent another [rationality-driven] Holocaust."

>>7295579
historicity
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yticirostih

>>7295480
No.

it's not really a conspiracy when they openly state they want to destroy western society though?

>>7296045
page number?

>>7295499

It's so fucking weird that a LaRouche associated essay is now becoming practically a mainstream conservative perspective.

These are very strange times. Very.

>>7296050
the entirety of critical theory tbh

>>7296083

have you read a book voluntarily since high school? be honest

>>7296082
Even weirder Castro bought into it

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/castro-writes-on-global-conspiracy-theory/
> Fidel Castro is showcasing a theory long popular both among the far left and far right: that the shadowy Bilderberg Group has become a kind of global government, controlling not only international politics and economics, but even culture.
>The 84-year-old former Cuban president published an article Wednesday that used three of the only eight pages in the Communist Party newspaper Granma to quote - largely verbatim - from a 2006 book by Lithuanian-born writer Daniel Estulin.

>The excerpt published by Castro suggested that the esoteric Frankfurt School of socialist academics worked with members of the Rockefeller family in the 1950s to pave the way for rock music to "control the masses" by diverting attention from civil rights and social injustice.

>>7296097
yes
they're just a bunch of vengeful jews lad

>>7295478
This is a great explanation:

http://www.academia.edu/10149049/The_Origins_and_Ideological_Function_of_Cultural_Marxism

>>7296106

This is what happens when people don't read anymore, I swear. All of this business about the Frankfurt school could be cleared up by reading like one book.

I bet Habermas gets a bunch of really weird emails.

>>7296145
Is this the one about Adorno writing songs for the Beatles, or the one about Walter Benjamin using kabbalah magic to destroy Western art?

>>7296315
Both.

>>7296106
what the fuck adorno hated rock

>>7295478
Conspiracy theories are usually born from the ultra right which have an intense fear of socialism and academia.

It's weird too because they also tend to have an intense fear of a larger outside force controlling them despite the fact that their views line closely to fascism. But whatever! Trying to find sense in crazy is pointless anyways.

Anyone know of good retorts to critical theory? I believe that my kind of preferred analysis is similar to critical theory. Interested to see what is so wrong about this theory. I am actually looking for academic responses, not pseudo bullshit /pol/ tries to spit out.

>>7295478
Conspiracy theories are usually born from the ultra right who have an intense fear of socialism, academia, and jews.

It's weird too because they’re generally united by this fear of a larger outside force controlling their lives despite the fact that their views closely line up with fascism. But whatever! Horseshoe theory. No point in finding sense in the senseless.

>>7296442
Try Ms. Paglia.

>>7295501
nice troll/misinformation

>>7296421
Adorno was a giant music/art snob. That's why I stopped reading the guy.

>>7296462
yawn at this post

>>7296462
>they have an intense fear of socialism, academia and Jews

Care to explain why those things have never harmed anyone ever?

>>7295547
Dude the entire Jewish conception of God changed after the holocaust. Things were fucking rocky with those guys for a while and we got some interesting ideas out of it, but you must be poorly read not to be familiar with post-war Jewish despair and anger.

>>7295506
>The Authoritarian Personality
>identifying your score on the f-scale
>funded by The American Jewish Committee

kek

Why spend so much time debating this? Its going to get no where. Should we as humans try to just keep making technology instead of engaging in almost barbaric debates over science versus spiritualism?

>>7296783
I'd say most Frankfurt School texts are taught in unis mainly out of the interests of Jewish identity politics.

>>7295478


It started at the Frankfurt institute of social research.

They spread it themselves.

I mean really, why is this even controversial? Progs trying to sweep an embarrassing skeleton into the closet? Where do they think the new left came from? Do people even recognize that was a thing that happened anymore? Hasent anyone ever heard of gramsci? those are all rhetorical questions They all talk about this shit themselves, just open a book.

>>7297034
It's the old "hide your dirty laundry," pattern in communities that perceive themselves as a vulnerable minority. Admitting in public that anyone associated with them wants to do what Fox News accuses them of makes progressives feel frightened.

>>7296689
>Dude the entire Jewish conception of God changed after the holocaust.
How the fuck do you think I'm arguing against this? How the fuck do you think this is the same as "the Frankfurt school started to prevent another Holocaust," which is patently untrue?

>>7297050
Way to pick the one part of the post that was just for emphasis.

Jewish groups were actively thinking in terms of ways to prevent future holocaust events. I went to a heavily Jewish school and this isn't a freaking secret. They're proud of the steps they e taken as a community (despite some disagreement about Zionism's role) to study and avert genocide through every approach imaginable. It's not an evil or nefarious thing, and some of these academics are part of it. not sure how it reached Protocols of the Elders tier status on 4chan.

>>7297042


It feels like, as with most historical events from the 20th century, people have a sense that the university takeovers of the 60s and 70s were some that just sorta happened 'by magic', if they are even cognizant of it in the first place.

Something quite peculiar happened in the 60s. Wherefore such sudden upheavals in society? Why is academia today full of useful idiots for reds? (since actual reds are something of an anachronism at this point)

The answer: because everyone who wasn't got fucking chased out, that's how. Because one side was treating it as a fight to the death, collaborating. Where no resort was too low if they could get away with it; while the other side thought they were just going to have some nice philosophical debates, atomized. Unable, or unwilling, to realize that they were in a war to begin with.

>>7297070
Great. Agreed. And the Frankfurt School was not started to prevent another Holocaust.

>>7297118
Agreed on what? The whole point of that post is that you're actually making a strange assertion by distancing the Frankfurt school intellectuals from the holocaust.

>>7297034
I really hope you're trolling.

Gramsci's works weren't even translated into English until the mid 1970s. The dude you're looking to blame is Lukács, who was buddies with a few of the Frankfurt School authors.

The New Left had to do with a number of things. Marcuse was only part of the equation, and Adorno called the NL "left fascists".

>>7296315
The idea that Adorno, who can't go a minute without saying "I HATE JAZZ" like an autistic tic wrote for the Beatles makes me laugh and laugh.

>>7297121
The Frankfurt School was not started to prevent another Holocaust. That's what we, and everyone sane, agrees on.

>>7297132
It's a real conspiracy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxISZyb1k3s

See how long you can go without laughing or cringing.

>>7297128


Adorno was a poofter tbh that just equivocated 'fascist' with 'thing I don't like'.

Pure ideology iygmm fam (if you get my meaning family).

>>7297121
>>7297136
The Institut Für Sozialforschung began in 1923, was taken over by Horkheimer in 1930. Adorno and Benjamin began collaborating in the late 1920s on what would become Critical Theory.

>>7295519
>referencing benjamin, esp a v difficult essay of his, relevantly

i like you

>>7297147
>institutions and the individuals that constitute them don't change over time.

>>7297147
is that when they cooked up the holocaust?

>>7295511
>Why didn't right-wingers just go after the French postmodernists instead?
Because post-structuralism is right-wing at it's core. Habermas knew this.

Woah a highly secular part of judaism has it out for the caricature of western culture that is contemporary democracy (read: capitalism).

Unreal. It's like no other extremist culture has ever concocted an elaborate plan to destroy another extremist culture.

Oh wait, no. Humans have done that forever, it's just that we care becuase some political hipsters have unveiled the greatest human secret.

>we're all out to fuck SOMEONE over.

The jews just do it better than anyone else becuase theyre more organized and cohesive. Convert, whine, or do something about it. Don't like those options? Then stfu and worry about yourself brother, becuase that's the world we live in.

>>7296462
The right-wing? Dude, are you illiterate? I've read maybe 1/20th the books that the average /lit/ person has, but even I can tell you that it's general human nature to find a reason beyond their control to explain their failures.

Conservashits have "muh anti-racism." "muh anti-religion" "muh commies"

Liberalcucks have "muh cisscum" "muh rich people" "muh capitalism.

Libertaridiots have "muh big government" "muh conspiracies" "muh anything-that-effects me"

All we have is ourselves and our environment. Make the best of it, or make it better for everyone w/o shitting on the direction the river flows. Jesus, this is /lit/, I come here to escape /pol/s incessent ignorance but y'all are turning into

>idiots that read the news
And
>idiots that read books

Come on.

>>7296787
Lol you're on a mongolian shit-eating board brother. I just spent my last drunken hours tonight posting replies to ding-dongs for purely cathartic reasons and you're genuinely asking why we can agree on progress?

"tis easier to attract bees with honey than flies with vinegar.

Pick when, where, and how to have your battles. You're better off making ripples in our infinite pool of reality than splashing about in 4chan's tiny little pond.

Though I commend you for not shitposting, I think that's the epitome of modern-day "town idiot" behavior.

Considering that they were all Jews, and they all openly and covertly tried to spread the most noxious interpretation of Western society, while operating in a highly enclosed and authoritarian body, in large, mirroring the rabbi-apprentice structure, it's not that much of a leap to say that their views were deeply pathological - and not to themselves.

I don't know whether it is mental dullness or a knee-jerk lefty mechanism that blinds people to see that groups have different objectives and interests. But anyway, I encourage people to read K. MacDonald's exegesis on this movement to understand why people would deem it hostile.

More than 40% of all organisms are parasites.
The assessment of the organism should be whether its influence is benign or malignant.

>>7296442
The .pdf linked to above had a surprise twist ending some might consider a retort:

>In the final analysis, the conservatives heretofore critiqued have matters exactly backwards: cultural liberalism (deceptively
termed “cultural Marxism”)
, at least in its current incarnation, is not corrosive to capitalism; it is its ideological compliment. It accommodates and expands the opportunities for accumulation, while contributing to the mass delusion that all things are possi-ble in life except transcending class relations and generalized commodity production.

>>7295523
>because rationality taken to its logical extremes directly led to the holocaust.

Nazism is the absolute opposite of radical rationality

Frankfurt school is based, basically it's philosophers and other intellectuals criticizing the society, it's structures, power relations etc. The goal was that through critique capitalism's flaws will get exposed and in the long run capitalism will be over.

>>7297717
the idea that 'the holocaust is the peak of rationality' is a pretty common meme in academia