/lit/ - Literature

Communism

A combination of events. The Russians have the unique perspective of coming into their own literary form at the same time as they entered the modern world. Nevertheless, they also kept true to the ideals of antiquity (East Europe starts with the greeks), and claimed for themselves the banner of the old, the middling, and the new. Two Romes fell, a third rose anew, there will never be a fourth.

It was a dreadful place. They learned to be strong, compassionate and creative. They weren't bounded by universities to give them education or permission to write.
It was a mixture of misery, courage and love.

Emerging from hundreds of years of serfdom probably had a hand in it. But this is technically a very uneducated opinion

>>7258976
Alienation. These people were part of a highly westernized elite ever since Peter I (16??-1725) made them so. On top of that Peter created a rationalist bureaucratic machine which they were BY LAW forced to serve in till the law was rescinded in the 1780s or so. Throw on top of this the Napoleonic wars+romantic rebellion against enlightenment rationalism+increasingly indebted/bankrupt gentry class+Nicholas I's authoritarian regime which made subtle critique/analysis the rule to avoid Siberian exile+alienation/romantic attraction of the highly european elite to the serfs all followed by the ascension of the liberal Tsar Alex II to the throne all set the stage for the literary boom

>>7259171
Reminder that white people were still in serfdom in Russia after blacks had been freed in america

>>7259232
This really is madness when you think about it.

Russia with all its refinement and art had slavery until the middle of the 19th century. People were born into servitude with almost no way out.

>>7258976
>best literature the world has ever seen
But that's italian literature.

>>7258976
pushkin happened

>>7259255
One good work of fanfiction does not make Latin Literature the best.

>>7259260
>The divine comedy is the only good italian work of literature
I guess that Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy are the only russian writers you know.

>>7259001
Lol a fourth already happened

The works of Gaddis, Faulkner, O'Connor, Pynchon, DeLillo, Wallace, McCarthy, Heller, and Burroughs and the American post-moderns.

>>7259297
McCarthwow? How so?

A sort of libertarianism.

Despite what one may think, 19th century was very free. This is because the government was so bad at enforcing its rule. This liberated the Russian mind.

Unfortunately, it all came to an end when the bolsheviks took over.

>>7259255
What the fuck is with all the Boot-posters today?

>>7259302
Well just Blood Meridian tbh

>>7259303
it already ended in 1880s

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilist_movement

they didn't have a strong figure stamping out creativity and political strife

were a half dozen novels worth suffering stalinism?

>>7259361
I don't think Tolstoy caused the bolshevik revolution...

Blame the germans. More precisely, blame the jews.

>>7259365
tolstoy didn't do it. the ennui of the ruling class, wasting their days writing and reading sad novels did

if they had some traditional old fashioned wholesome repression, maybe the social order would have been solidified and nobody would have needed to express dissent

(this is all my very myopic and misinformed interpretation of history)

>>7259389
>tolstoy didn't do it. the ennui of the ruling class, wasting their days writing and reading sad novels did
Oh yes, they sowed their own demise, but not the rise of the bolsheviks.

>if they had some traditional old fashioned wholesome repression, maybe the social order would have been solidified and nobody would have needed to express dissent
And they would have had no intellectual development.

Serfdom

>>7259404
exactly

the austro-hungarians essentially contributed nothing to the 19th century

and they would have gotten away with it without that pesky ww1 bringing them down

some of their former subjects had to suffer stalinism as a consequence of russian hubris!

>>7258976
Imperialism and francophilia. Also the ideas about slav utopia, along with Hegel, and the fact that de Maistre was a diplomat there. The latter is actually extremely important, especially for Tolstoy.

They were less "progressive" in their mindset. While in europe, even a century before the russian up-rising, literature was already revolved around self-expression and "beauty" and having an agenda was considered cliche.

The russians wrote agenda. They were advocating their ideas, which were as advance as the western culture of their times gets, but written with the parental attitude of centuries before.

Literature always falls from greatness when it's role as an educator becomes lesser. (see: any period in the 20th century compared to early 21th century)

>>7259485
This.

Russia had a hardon for France after they brought swathes of culture to Russia during and after the Napoleonic wars.

>>7259245
It is not exactly the same as slavery.

>>7259245
That's why it was able to have those things

>>7258976
>in the 19th century for them to produce the best literature the world has ever seen?

What about France?

Hugo, Flaubert, Stendhal, Balzac, Dumas

>>7259589
>tfw when they are taking away Red and the Black from the high-school reading list

I wasn't even aware of the importance of the setting and loved it as a teen. Fuck anyone who wants to bring anglo school systems to the continent.

>>7258999
Cmon breh

>>7259443
They made tremendous contributions to the XXth century though.

>having an agenda was considered cliche.

That was not the case in the XVIIth century and certainly not the case in the 19th century up until 1850 at least.
>>7259603
>they are taking away Red and the Black from the high-school reading list

Who should I murder to prevent this.

>>7258976
>be rich
>be well educated
>be NEET
>long russian winters with fuck all to do
>bored out of your skull
>might as well try my hand at writing a bit to pass the time during these frozen snowed in months
>repeat for decades
>???
>decent fiction

>>7260166
See that >???
That's what we're here for!!!

>>7260196
The secret is having nothing 'better' to do than write. However, 'better' is not measured in a lofty high brow hierarchy of values but rather in a crude monkey way.

In order to write you have to have nothing at hand that is easier to do and brings a quicker reward.

Since the internet we are all fucked, for that matter.

>>7259303
not really, government censorship did have some major slipups, but it effective for the most part. The good writers were the ones who wrote so subtly that they got past the government censors, so if anything "unfreedom" liberated the Russian mind. That said, you could live a relatively peaceful life so long as you didn't criticize the government outright or join some radical political movement.

>>7259389
>this is all my very myopic and misinformed
it is...the government was repressive by all measures. the 1905 revolution was crushed mercilessly but the government nearly collapsed in the process. Still, the government was in control of the social order until late in the game. If world war one hadn't happened they would have certainly stayed in power

The birth of a new High Culture.
Read Spengler.

>>7259443
austro-hungary was a new entity, you can't really blame them for not culturally flowering immediately. but as another anon pointed out here, their culture blossomed beautifully at the turn of the century. World war one destroyed it all and replaced it with a bunch of lame ass states that you see today. Austro-hungary would have been awesome if it continued :,(

>>7260386
The fuck is this, recipe for Nietzsche's last man?

>>7259232
Russia freed the serfs in 1861. The emancipation proclamation freed some slaves in 1863. Anendments 14-16 to the covstitution weren't ratified until 1868.

>>7261085
Real life is the recipe for Nietzsche's last man, tbh. The motivational triad explains how we and animals like us function essentially.

>>7258999
Such a waste of triples...

>>7259443

>what is Vienna

It was the intellectual centre of Europe at the time.
Get the fuck out of here.

>>7258976
French intellectual seed planted in the fertile Russian soil of long winters and ample supply of slave labor.

>>7258976
You try living in a shitty unending tundra without escapism.

>>7259293
He's referring to the Iliad you fuck.

>>7258999
fuck off.

and anyways, Communism is anti-art in every fucking way

>>7259001
1st: Roman Empire
2nd: Abysinnian Empire
3rd: United Kingdom and France? I feel like those empires were direct descendants of the Roman Empire and later came the United States.

>>7262433
Abyssinian Empire? How so?
And the UK and France are descendants of Rome as much as Turkey is descendant from Constantinople.

>>7259336
Western ideals (socialism, utilitarianism, nihilism) vs. orthodox Russian and Christian ideals is basically the main theme in Crime and Punishment and I can imagine it's this east vs. west conflict that resulted in so much good literature.

1. Roman Empire
2. Byzantine Empire
3. Russian Empire

Russian kings even called themselves Tsar, which translates to Caesar. Byzantine missionaries brought christianity and learning over there, and so they saw themselves as the descendants of them.

>>7262438
Holy shit I said Abyssinian. I meant the Byzantine Empire, an empire that emerged due to the collapse of the Roman Empire.

Turkey/Ottoman Empire turned to Islam, ergo more towards the East than West.

>>7262444
Russian Empire is way too Eastern I feel to represent the 3rd Roman Empire imo. But then again, the Russian Empire was orthodox Christian.

>>7262444
Ivan III also married the niece of the last Byzantine emperor. The Tsars really did have the blood of the Roman emperors, even if it wasn't very much.

>>7262444
>Byzantine missionaries brought christianity

It was bulgarian missionaries.

>>7262465
There were many missionaries.

The majority were Byzantine. Also who sponsored the first churches? That's right, the Byzantines.

should i buy this?

>>7262491
If you have the money, yes.

His short stories are incredible. Master and Man made me cry.

>>7262505
i have the money.

>>7262491
that cover is too campy smh

>>7258976
Is that a painting or a photo from the 1960s?

I'm getting robert-redford-nodding vibes.

>>7262506
Then do it?

mysterious russian soul tbh

>>7263240
>1960s

This is bait right? You can't be this retarded.

>>7263240
Why don't you Google the filename

Because ancient Russians (sons of varegs, prooved descendants of africans who moved to northern Europe) were black.

>>7262221
Think you mean the Aeneid.

>>7258999
You missed the boat.

>>7259509
Undderated post.

>>7262462

>The 2nd Roman Empire was Eastern.

Seriously, look at it like a family tree. The Grandson bears resemblance to his father, but not his grandfather. Yet the father has resemblance to both his grandfather and his son.

One could write a book about how Russia/Byzantine overlaps, and how Rome/Byzantine overlaps, while also asserting Rome/Russia have nothing in common.

For me, Russia is effectively our version of the Byzantine Empire, right down to its political positions.

>>7259509
that made me feel a little bit more educated, thanks

>>7259312
Have you read anything else by him? The only person on the list that should be questioned as to why he is mentioned is Wallace