/lit/ - Literature

>>7242825
he's Collins tier

Nietzsche thought he was übermensch tier.

>>7242853
>le sore tummy virgin man

woah, what an endorsement

>>7242825
In terms of overall greatness, yes. Shakespear contributed more to literature, though.

>>7242856
>A fat old Jew likes Shakespeare
>Woah, what an endorsement

>>7242881
who?

>>7242908

I was thinking about making a thread about Goethe today. Can somebody explain to me why he's considered in the same league as Shakespeare? I don't deny or question it, I'm admitting ignorance. I'm American, and as far as I know he wrote Young Werther, Elective Affinities, and Faust. Maybe I'm forgetting something, but that's what I see in print in English. I didn't even know he wrote an autobiography until I found it in my university's library. So did he write a lot more great stuff than is readily available in English, or is it true that his reputation rests mainly on the three works I listed? Or is it because he was so much more than a writer? Basically I'd like to know how he became so revered.

>>7242962
He was a polymath, perhaps the most intelligent man to ever live. He was a writer, a philosopher, a scientist, and probably lots of other things too.

>>7242975
Yeah, I get that, but I'm asking whether there's a lot more to his literary achievement than I'm aware of. It's fine if it rests on only a few works; Dante's and Cervantes's status is the result mainly of a single work. But I was wondering, given how often he's called the German Shakespeare, whether Werther, Affinities, and Faust were just the tip of the iceberg.

>>7243003
He wrote poetry as well, a lot is just 'it sounds nice' tier, but some poems are actually very good. His main work is obviously Faust I, I think you could say that it is from a stylistical point probably one of the most artistic and interesting works of fiction ever written. I also really liked Wilhelm Meister's Apprenticeship (its sequel less so) and think that it's generally underrated while I think Werther is generally overrated (Goethe wrote it when he was in his early 20s iirc).

Quality wise I think Faust is surely on the level of Shakespeare's best plays (Hamlet, Othello), but he didn't revolutionize drama as Shakespeare did.

Additional to his writing (Poems, Dramas, Chromatics) he held some political positions.

Currently going through Faust (German here) and every chapter is so loaded with meaning within/behind the actual story, I´m really fascinated by the scope of it.

Are there any English translations that are considered outstanding?

>>7243003
>>7243333

I get the impression he's one of those authors who is incredibly important, but kind of unstriking now because he's been so deeply incorporated into the culture. Werther and Faust are both sort of literary/cultural archetypes now. Sort of like how Hemmingway seems unremarkable to a lot of people because we're not coming out of the clutter of the Victorians' novels and the blazing lyricism of the modernists.

Faust is my favorite work in the entirety of the canon.

>>7242856
epic

Dante > Chaucer > Shakespeare/Middleton > Guhtuh

>>7242825
It's interesting that Goethe usually appears on lists about the smartest people that ever existed, listed along with Newton, Leibnitz and Kant.

>>7242825
shakespeare is goethe tier

>>7242962
he wrote way more than that. goethe has one of the most ridiculously diverse bodies of work. he is one of a handful or writers to completely innovate the three major modern genres (novel, drama, lyric). he invented free indirect discourse (the most important technique in the development of the novel) in a work that isn't even one of his best (wilhelm meister). he was writing free verse poems. he was writing rhymed poems in every known form, including adapting "oriental" forms. he wrote scientific treatises. his personality was legendary, reported quotes from goethe are almost as famous as much of his public work. he just has ridiculous breadth. he was recognized in his time as a foundational figure for german literature, who really set the literature out on its own instead of just inheriting from french traditions.

>>7243988
>middleton bois
why do these people exist

middleton is definitely underrated but what is this deal with pretending he's as good as shakespeare when it's just so blatantly false

>>7243988
Really, really hoping you accidentally used > instead of <

>>7243988
wow ur so edgy

anglo phones can't understand why goethe is better than shakespeare just like teuto phones can't understand why shakespeare is better than goethe

>>7242867
Anglo lit always will

Who is the Shakespeare of our time?

>>7244203
some guy working for google

>>7244195
lol no

>>7244203

>>7244918
>of our time
also no

>>7242825
Shakespeare sucked so yes. Shakespeare is a meme writer and people only suck that dead hack's dick to seem smart. Shakespeare is the Mona Lisa or Beatles of literature, only major plebs could enjoy his shit writing.

>>7244934
He lived within the last century.

And who's your fucking candidate?

I love Goethe. I want to caress Goethe. I want to go to Italy with Goethe. Why is Goethe dead? Who killed Goethe?

>>7244941
Is hating the Mona Lisa the clearest pleb marker? It's not as if 99% people actually hold it up as beautiful art when they reference it, it's just a painting that happens to be famous. But it really is fantastic, I remember the first time I broke through the cultural baggage of it and actually looked at the painting, how perfect and beautiful and mysterious it was, it was like the first time you go back to Romeo and Juliet after high school and really get the beauty of it instead of it being just the generic play

Is Schiller Goethe tier? I know they were friends.

>>7244941

>Shakespeare is the Mona Lisa or Beatles of literature, only major plebs could enjoy his shit writing.

Shitposting is fun, isn't it?

>>7244969
>mfw realizing all of Shakespeare's plays have a twist ending

>>7244941
Actually, plebs trash him to seem smart.

>>7244941
well memed

>>7244969
>Is hating the Mona Lisa the clearest pleb marker?
probably, along with hating Louis Armstrong.

>>7244918
Certainly not.