/lit/ - Literature

>>7214681
Go to /pol/, you can have a whole thread about it

>>7214681

>anyone have a good infographic comparing a rare juicy strip steak and potatoes with literal vomit

political infographics are literally for retards

if you think that oversimplified abstractions actually represent real politics, you're a fucking retard

>>7214681
Just compare North Korea and South Korea.

>inb4 le north korea is not real communism meemee

>>7215882

nobody mentioned totalitarian cult-of-personality Reich state systems or communism

go away

>>7215887
>nobody mentioned totalitarian cult-of-personality Reich state systems or communism
>or communism
What exactly do you think Marxism consists of?

>>7215887
>inb4 le north korea is not real communism meemee

>>7215892

have you ever read Marx?

'The Communist Manifesto', penned with Engels as a polemic incitement to early revolutionary socialists, isn't the only work he ever contributed to

>>7215901
>have you ever read Marx?
Not much, I've only read the manifesto.

However, stop being obtuse. In the context of OP, he obviously meant communism.

>>7215882
>>7215892
>>7215896
>north korea is marxist guise
>it has officially rejected marxism except for superficial symbolism from the cold war in exhange for juche, an ideology that thinks materialism is 'economic determinism', the Kims are Great Men, that history is because of 'Man' and should be guided by the 'interests of Man' (read: whatever Glorious Leader says), and that just thinking that you're an autarky means you are one
>massive totalitarian autocracy that thinks socialism = nationalism
>undergoing privatization in the same modelling China in the late 70s
>because history moves in the interests of Man under their Glorious Leader, class struggle is meaningless unless the Party says it is
>openly advertises having lowest labor rates in east asia
>looking nothing like communism

>>7215917
>North Korea is not real marxism, guise!
>China is not real marxism, guise!
>The USSR is not real marxism, guise!
>The Khmer Rouge is not real marxism, guise!
>Cuba is not real marxism, guise!

It's not REAL communism that's we've seen through the years though.

>>7215923
Have you actually read official propaganda from the Eastern Bloc? Their "Marxism" is vulgar and contradictory pseudo-scientific hogwash used to legitimize class rule. If you want to refute this "Marxism", you're refuting a caricature.

Khmer Rouge aside, (who were more nationalist than socialist, and were based upon the Khmer Isiaak, nationalists that supported the monarchy,) these "Communist" countries were modernizing capitalisms-in-becoming, transforming feudal social relations into bourgeois relations. Think of them as like oriental Enlightened Despots in the vein of Napoleon, who's massive accumulation and concentration of capital in urban centres and the ensuing massive movement from the town to the cities in order to industrialize where what really created capitalism.

Besides, what matters isn't the system of belief itself, but the idea in relation to the way it influences how people behave in larger system. In other words, what matters is the way ideologues function over what they think. It's obvious, without ever even critiquing their ideology (You don't really have to and it's fairly easy because it's a contradictory mess), to see how all these places didn't have anything looking like workers' association. Even if we concede that they were "Communists," saying that the Communists in one social context would work the same way in every other one is to ignore how history works.

>>7215923

Scandinavia is real marxism.

and incidentally, the best place in the world.

Still, it's the exact same story with the free market laissez-faire capitalism Friedman tried to implement around the world. Failed every time, Friedman blamed some tiny variable, which they then changed the next place, to no effect.

Sage for politics.

>>7215973
>Scandinavia is real marxism.
no it is not

>>7215967
Interesting post but flawed analysis. You might find the marxism of the eastern bloc "vulgar", but keep in mind that Marx never defined practical guidelines for the real-life application of marxism, so obviously communist parties had to resort to "approximations".

I do not think they are at all like Napoleon. Napoleon didn't care much about the economy of France, whereas the whole premise of Marxism is the organization of the economy.

The reason why I criticize such countries as examples of the failure of marxism is because it quite clearly shows the complete insanity of the idea of a marxist revolution and of a dictatorship of the proletariat. I think communism is impossible not only because of the nature of communism itself, but also because it is impossible to bring about.

>>7215973
>Scandinavia is real marxism.
Pffft hahaha. The nordic countries have some of the most capitalistic legislation in the world.

So everything that works is "real marxism" and everything that doesn't is "not real marxism", according to you redditors?

>Still, it's the exact same story with the free market laissez-faire capitalism Friedman tried to implement around the world. Failed every time,
Yeah, look at the abject poverty of Chile, Singapore and Hong Kong! Fucking Friedman!

>>7215976

My bad. Let's call it extremist socialism instead.

>>7215978
nah mate. tax breaks for the rich so they can hire nannies and redo their kitchens is not socialism

>>7215978
There is nothing socialist about Scandinavia's economy. The corporate tax rate in Scandinavian countries is actually lower than the corporate tax rate in the USA.

>>7215977

>Pffft hahaha. The nordic countries have some of the most capitalistic legislation in the world.

90% effective tax rate. Huge and tight-masked social security net. High benefits and welfare. Education is free, and you're even given an allowance for undertaking one.

Tell me a bit about how the legislation is capitalist.

>Yeah, look at the abject poverty of Chile, Singapore and Hong Kong! Fucking Friedman!

Yeah, after they rolled back his extremist ideas. What his ideas caused was primarily widespread famine and caused a select few to become exceedingly rich on the country's natural resources.

Capitalism in a nutshell :^)

>>7215982
>90% effective tax rate. Huge and tight-masked social security net. High benefits and welfare. Education is free, and you're even given an allowance for undertaking one.
How the hell is that marxism? Do you know what socialism is? A welfare state is not the same thing as socialism

>Tell me a bit about how the legislation is capitalist.
The entire economy is privatized, you mongoloid.

It seems to me that the depth of your understanding of socialism is "gibs me free shit", which is honestly not surprising, socialists are not renowned for their high intelligence.

>Yeah, after they rolled back his extremist ideas.
Wait, which country are you talking about? Chile? They didn't roll back anything. Chile's markets are still incredibly free.

>What his ideas caused was primarily widespread famine
There wasn't any famine in Chile under Pinochet. I think you're mistaking Chile for =>insert communist country<=

>>7215973
Jesus christ, I hope you're not from scandinavia. Because then you are delusional. No, scandinavian countries are not marxist, they are not even socialist. I know because I live in Sweden.

>>7215973
>Scandinavia is real marxism.
what sort of spastic thinks this
>and incidentally, the best place in the world.
fuck me

The Scandinavian social democrat mode is strictly capitalist

>>7215973
is this the worst post in /lit/ history?

>>7216005

nah, it's a bad one, but he's right about Friedman at least

>>7214681
marxism is a method for understanding the latter.

>>7216010
>but he's right about Friedman at least
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Chile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Asian_Tigers

>>7216010
Pinochet did nothing wrong

>>7215977
marxism doesn't need to be "applied", it isn't a lifestyle nor an economic system. It's a tool, a method for understanding and critiquing capitalism. The only thing that could actualy settle the question, whether the USSR and other eastern bloc states were communist or not, is to look at their economy through the lens of marxism. And then it's fairly easy to see that they were, as the anon before me has said, state-capitalist economies to further the modernization of the respective states. There was wage labour, money, commodities, the state and other things that are specific to capitalism
So no, they weren't communist at all.

>>7215973
>Scandinavia is real marxism.
They're not Marxist countries
>and incidentally, the best place in the world.
It's really not.

Funny that the only place you'd rather live is a place with more whites. None of the Marxist African shitholes, or the Asian countries, or even Cuba..

>>7216020
"Free market Capitalism will collapse in a few decades, trust me guys"
>150 years later
"Free market Capitalism and scho on and sch on will collapse in a few decades, trust me guys I have a creative writing degree"

Marx was wrong about everything, even his distinction of class is not correct these days

A great embarrassing fact haunts all attempts to represent the market as the highest form of human freedom: that historically, impersonal, commercial markets originate in theft.

>>7216154
>that historically, impersonal, commercial markets originate in theft.
source? Pretty sure the first "market" was when ooga traded a rock to booga against a bone.

>>7215923
They are interpretations of Marxism, part of the "shitty war-torn backwater with no likelihood of achieving communism but let's have a revolution anyway" school.

>>7216061
>he thinks 150 decades means 'a few decades' is over
>has actual faith that the lob-toss derivative global Asian slave-labour casino is inherently stable and permanent

yikes

>>7216252

15(!)*

Marxist argument is simply that at one point in history profit will no longer be possible.

Taken from this PDF: http://yunus.hacettepe.edu.tr/~ozel/Radical_Economics.pdf

>>7214681
Go to /pol fucking fascist jew-and gay-killing scum.

>>7215973
just bumping this thread so everyone can see this post

>>7216021

both of those articles end up working against your point

>>7215977
Kek. types this load of bullshit and calls others redditors. well memes