/lit/ - Literature

Because we're really all into lit just to impress the opposite sex. A degree is proof that we have value in this dept for the person who doesn't have the ability to judge for themselves.

Did it ever occur to you that it might be useful for society to have people who specialize in letters? Or that if you got a STEM degree all that time you lost pursuing that might cut in to the time you would spend learning another discipline?

degrees in literature and philosophy only have one possible employment avenue: teaching literature and philosophy.

>what's the point of academics except as a means to $$$$?!?!

>>7207097
I did it because I STEM fields are interesting to me but not motivating (inb4 learning to become interested in things in which you have no interest, I have some, but not enough to spend three years studying in the hope of making more money). The same with money. My degree was virtually free, I got to study something that interested me, my professors' influence changed me as a person, and I can live a comfy life without much money.

It's the same reason why geeks on here prefer a physical copy of a book instead of getting an ebook, to show off.

if you go to a real school, have a high gpa, and do your finance internships, the 'job prospects' for for an english or phil major are the same as for any other major

>>7207097
If you aren't a 12-year-old you'll realize that the degree you get means basically nothing. Your career success is completely dependent on experience and connections. That's it. You can do whatever you want with almost any degree, so long as it's slightly relevant.

>STEM
>job

everyone's fucked m8

>>7207284
b-but yahoo told me my degree was in the TOP 10 HIGHEST PAYING!

>>7207284
>>7207290

Look at these humanities majors jerking each other off to make themselves feel better about their poor career choices.

>>7207281
This. This is true.

>>7207369
humanities/STEM double major here, I feel superior to all of you but the job market still fuckin sucks for me too

>>7207097
because i already married a rich jewish qt and can do whatever the fuck i want :)

>tfw bsc but too stupid to do msc and am jobless
b-but 300k starting ; ;

You can do that. I don't think what the OP is suggesting is a bad idea. Except... if your goal is to become a writer, then why -not- do the humanities major? You'll meet people who share your interest, you'll be able to pick the brains of your professors, and you'll be forced to think all the time about literature, which will undoubtedly make you a better reader and writer.

If you do the STEM major, then sure, you can read and write in your spare time, but then how much of your day is occupied studying and meditating on concepts and principles inconsequential to your real passion? And when you finally get out of college and you get your "until I make it" job, what then? How long until that well-paying "in the meantime" job becomes just your job? And you decide, hey, I'm getting paid well, things are going fine, why did I ever want to be a writer in the first place, this isn't my passion, it's somebody else's, but what the hell, this is working all right. And then you're 40.

If you do the English major, your obligations and your leisure time are pointed in the direction of your goal. And if you don't wind up becoming a writer, you can still use the degree to try to get a job to get involved in the book world somehow. I think splitting your attention between your safety subject and your passion subject isn't a terrible thing, but it's also not what I would recommend anyone do.

>>7207097
>"We feel superior when we are the best in something in our little group of people we have met, but we feel threatened when there is someone as good or better than we are. We are probably still better than the rest, yet we feel uncomfortable when that one outshine us" he thought to himself as he pumped gasoline.

>all of these peasants obsessed with finding a job
>everyone circlejerking STEM utility and job options
>everyone ignoring the Veblenian revelation that degrees with fewer job prospects more effectively convey your pecuniary superiority over your peers

It must suck being poor and having to work.

>yfw I got an econ/physics degree and regret not studying english/philosophy because I live off my parents' wealth anyway

>>7207445
Hey, man. That's the life. Just love and be loved. Share your love for literature with the ones you love and all will be okay.

>physics major
>2000k and sovereignty over small polynesian island starting

These college major threads need to stop ASAP (as soon as possible)

>>7208339
>english/philosophy
Seems redundant to me. Philosophy majors know more about literature than English majors and they stomp the GRE

Good thing I love everything but at best mediocre at everything precisely because I try to dedicate my time evenly between the arts and the sciences. Literally, the two are mutually dependable to understand truth and I won't have it any other way. I'm doing average in my STEM major but I know it's a safer bet than getting into an Arts major. So I just study humanities in my free time and pop into my uni's philosophy lectures whenever I please. Though I do admit, having 3, 3 hour labs for my sciences and ridiculous amount of content is eating away all my creative ambitions :(

You can't have everything in life.

>>7207097
>free time
>STEM job
lol. that only happens if you land a really low tier job in academics or a really high tier job in research.

I majored in mathematics and I regret not doubling in philosophy. I was too close to graduation by the time I developed an interest for it and I wanted to get into grad school ASAP

I don't want to be a walking calculator for some number-crunching think tank and math past multivariable calculus is absolutely mystifying.

Science writing is a good compromise, though.

>>7207097
None. Everybody should study real science areas as work and humanities as spare time hobbies. Great people in the past did this. Lucien Bonaparte, for example, was also an archeologist.

It's easier, you have more time to write, and might even learn somethin that betters your writing.

Also, you might not get a great job or ever be able to own a house with an English degree, but assuming you're in a western country you aren't going to starve in the streets either.

That said, I'm studying STEM because my family is not well-off and I want to do whatever I can to not rely on my parents. Also I want a house and kids. And am not good enough to write professionally.

>>7207260
Welcome to capitalist society.

I've been told it's for the best.

>>7207097
I am finishing my degree in EE. I wanted to study architecture or english but my parents didn't allowed me. I regret every single day, not because i think i wont be able to become a writer, but because i lost five years studying something i wasnt passionate about.

>>7207271
Lots of great books are difficult to find an electronic copy of.

And the call center I used to work at allowed books but not electronic devices.

>>7210366
Honestly it's hard to keep passion up for something in school, no matter the subject, unless you have very good professors. Conversely a good professor can make you passionate about something you didn't give a shit about before.

School is just tedious no matter the subject to me.

>>7210376
I understand. Thats one of the reasons i don't regret studying architecture or letters. I think i prefer to be self-taught in my art. I just really regret studying engineering.

You would have no free time if you studied STEM,
nor any if you worked in a "STEM job".
Either way, it is a perverse approach to things.

I want to hone my craft and /feel/ like a credible writer before I attempt to become one.

>>7210397
Are you trip-avatar posting? You know there are forums for that, right?

>>7207097
The difference between dilettantes and people who actually have a university education in these subjects is staggering.

>>7210402
I am aware.

>>7210391
Yeah, I'm almost finished with a Stats and CS major, and it kind of sucks. I would say only a third of the classes I've enjoyed really (mostly math), and I pretty much never have time to do anything social.

But I'm an older student and even my boring internships so far are way better than all the crappy labor I did before. I can't complain too much.

>>7210403
The idea that you need the recognition of an institution to concern yourself with literature is unnecessary.

>>7210402
*yawns*

Fuck off, bore. Do people like you really just come here to complain about other people's posting style?

You belong in reddit where mob rule is law and everyone is generic and undifferentiated from each other.

>>7210403
Not really at the undergrad level. It isn't that hard to have read the major works an English major will encounter.

>>7210410
You should stop doing it here, then. Especially since you have yet to say anything insightful, creative, or otherwise noteworthy.

>>7210416

How can an idea be unnecessary?

>>7207271
I prefer physical copies because I'm used to them. They have accompanied me since I was a child, and I want to die among them.

I have no friends to show off to, I don't read in public, and my camera is too poor for me to post on bookshelf threads.

>>7207097
The point is that it enables you to live and work with the thing you love. Why would I want to spend 8 hours a day defending some criminal or working at a nuclear power plant when I can spend 8 hours a day talking about the books I love with people who are interested in them, and the remaining of the day reading, translating, and writing?

Higher education in my country is free, and I don't see why I should become a physician or an engineer, spending 8 hours a day trying to make a company grow and become richer so that the CEO's can buy one more yacht at the cost of my life and my freedom.

I'd rather help people to flourish than companies to grow, thank you very much. That's why I'm perfectly ok with becoming a teacher.

I am a Law student, by the way, but I'm thinking of changing to philosophy, and even if I don't do that I will take a master's degree in the philosophy of Law and become a philosophy professor anyway.

>>7210426
Question: a] Have you only become aware of me today?
b] Do you mind the images or the username more?

>>7210430
How do you mean?
There is no reason to suggest someone NEEDS to receive any sort of recognition from University X, Y, Z to concern themselves with literature.

>>7210435
I like how you think.

>>7210435
The evil growing companies that provide you with your computer, food, house, electricity, paper, clothes, medicine, and internet.

Are those the companies that people should stop working for to give CEOs yachts?

I have nothing but respect for teachers, but your point of view is infantile.

>>7208458
>Literally, the two are mutually dependable to understand truth and I won't have it any other way.

Why do you bother so much with truth? 'Truth' changes a lot, and in a thousand years scientists will laugh at the scientists of today just like we laugh at Ptolemy and Lamarck.

Beauty, on the other hand, is a joy for ever. Homer is still as great as he has always been.

>>7210304
>BrazilianImperialConservative
>people should work in the humanities as 'spare time hobbies'

Something tells me Peter the II would not like to meet you.

>everybody should work with science

Then who would teach history to young people?

>>7208457

What does a Philosophy major even do with their time? You either postulate questions that don't have answers or you review other people who've asked those questions before you. I could find you thousands of drunk or high students who do just that without pissing away 4 years of their life.

>>7210452
You talk as if those things were essential.

And they are also the companies which provide me with disgusting architecture, disgusting sound systems that destroy my ears whenever I go into the street, global warming which has been destroying my dear Amazon rainforest, bombs, and so many other things, so yes, they definitely should give me something - a lot - in return.

>>7207369
STEM major here. All I ever hear about are layoffs and high competition.

See you all at starbucks.

>>7210470
They work as teachers and read. Why? Does actual reading sound weird to you?

>>7210470
They read and write daily.
I get the impression most people do not do that.

>>7207097
Whoa! That's a lot of unsupported claims and baseless assumptions! I'm afraid the onus is on you to demonstrate things like "job prospects for humanities majors are shit" and, "stem jobs allow free time to write." Those are just some of the problems with your post to get you started— try thinking of some of your own before posting next time!

>>7210486
They are essential. You're a fucking university student posting online. Your way of life would not exist without those evil corporations.

Teach because you think you're a good fit for the profession and enjoy it - not out of some ridiculous idea that it's less "icky" than working for a private company.

>>7210304
Godamn, why are Brazilian reactionaries so annoying?

>>7210505
Neither claim is really outrageous. Don't be dense. Enjoy your humanities major.

>>7210435

>I'm okay with becoming a cuck and leading other cucks down the path of cuckdom

ftfy

>>7210552
For what reason are you posting on this board if you do not have a genuine interest in Literature?

>>7210453

>I want to be eternal so people will remember me forever because no one gives a fuck about me in my real life

>>7210486

>Being this much of s fag psued

Lol

>>7210562
This seems like the ideal board to post to if you don't have a genuine love of literature.

>>7210488

>English major wasting dubs on delusion

Sad

>>7210562

What the fuck did you just say to me kid? I'll have you know I have over 300 confirmed books read on Goodreads.

>>7210507
My way of life is perfectly feasible within a libertarian socialist society. There is one Spanish corporation, very successful, which is controlled by its workers.

>>7210617

>Corporations are evil waaaah
>I'm going to be an eternal commie in a dying discipline that doesn't advance society while earning 1/3rd of what someone with a real career does

Stay pleb kid.

>>7210604
I don't use "Goodreads" so I would not know.
I have over 300 books which I have read on my shelf since childhood,
which seems like a better place to have it recorded, where people can't poke at everything you happened to have concerned yourself with in your life.
That is the reason I never went on facebook either.

>>7210617
Yeah but that's just shit in your head. As long as you're living a comfortable life right now you can't really talk about evil corporations without sounding like a hypocrite. It's very easy to hate people working for those rich CEOs, until you have to go to the supermarket to eat.

>>7210490

It's certainly strange to pick that as a means to sustain yourself. Imagine if I told you I wanted to read comic books and daydream all day for a living, and I'm going to pay thousands of dollars and dedicate 4 years of my life in order to hone that skill.

I may feel amazingly fulfilled but I would have contributed just as little as a philosophy major, don't get me wrong contemplation is a noble aspiration but to choose it as a career path is horribly selfish and irresponsible.

>>7210625
Why do you care about advancing society as opposed to your intellectual capabilities?
This seems like something I read often but never fully understood,
as if it is something that is only pulled out in arguments but does not actually have any substance.
Again, why are you on this board if you think people who do not take reading and writing seriously are superior to those who do?

>>7210625
>libertarian
>commie

Go back to school or the library.

>>7210634
What I mean is: we could live in a better system, and the fact that I live in the current system is no reason for me to necessarily agree with it. Can you not think?

And even if I do sound like a hypocrite, so what? Why should I care more about corporations than my own happiness? Yeah, thank god for coca-cola. But why should I work for it? Just because I like to drink it? If my only options were

1) become a teacher and writer/translator while having absolutely no advanced, post-Industrial Revolution technology
2) become an engineer and enjoy all the 'comfort' (i.e., 8 hours of television a day) that modern life has to offer

I'd definitely choose no. 1. As it happens, I can mix them both and that's what I shall do.

>>7210651

Listen kid, liking STEM and literature are not two mutually exclusive things. I enjoyed reading much more than STEM at one time but I've found both to be enjoyable.

However, humanities is not a viable career path. And the reason people want something that contributes something to humanity is the same reason most people want to get published: to leave your mark, to advance the narrative so to speak. Getting a degree in humanities isn't going to get you published, which is what most people on this board are hoping for.

>>7210684
You should do whatever you want. Personally I like that good artists don't have to work. I think good teachers are needed.

Just drop the condescension that you're nobler than people who work for corporations or whatever. They're the ones supporting your lifestyle.

>>7210687
>Why do you care about advancing society as opposed to your intellectual capabilities?
This question was not answered sufficiently.

And ultimately it comes to this:
>why are you on this board if you think people who do not take reading and writing seriously are superior to those who do?

You evidently do not take reading and writing seriously,
if you think it is simply the creation of a product that improves upon some idea of a shared culture. That what hack authors like McCarthy and Franzen are.

>But McCarthy is GOOD
If you do not take literature seriously.
Oprah Winfrey's book list is not sufficient.
You can not have a part time occupation with literature and think you have any thing to say about it.
You have proven yourself to fall in to the lesser category and therefore it is my suggestion you no longer post on this board.

>>7210707
I did not say they are nobler. I completely understand their point of view, but I think many of them are probably sadder and less satisfied with life than they would be if they had followed their actual passions, be it acting, music, literature, science, or whatever. They have chosen security, I choose happiness. To each his own. If they prefer security, that's their personal life and I have nothing to do with it.

Also note that many of them will become jobless within the next few decades, including lawyers and physicians, but also teachers (except for good ones, which is what I intend to become - I could never be a good physician or a good lawyer).

>>7210687
Why isn't it viable? Why isn't becoming a teacher viable? Just what exactly is the problem with it?

>>7210684
>become a teacher and writer/translator while having absolutely no advanced, post-Industrial Revolution technology

What a laugh. Hope your family was rich, otherwise you're farming in the dirt all day.

>>7210733
You implied you are choosing a noble route by talking about "working for rich CEOs" and shit.

And you're still unbelievably condescending. You're a college student. It's easy for you to talk down on people "choosing security" when you don't have to provide for yourself. Try having a little perspective before patting yourself on the back next time.

>>7210447
Litterally so starved for attention that you need to adopt an identity on anonymous board.

>>7210422
*rolls eyes*

Don't you belong on an emo chatroom from 2002?
*holds up spoon*

>>7207097
Self-learning is usually lopsided in comparison to learning in a traditional academic environment.

>>7210649
not that anon, but at least when you're teaching philosophy, you're helping the next generation contemplate/evaluate/make consistent the beliefs and attitudes that guide their actions, and encouraging them to engage in an exercise (philosophical discourse) that helps to foster humility and empathy.

Or at least that's what I see regarding the potential contributions that philosophy majors today can make to society.

>>7207097
>STEM job
>free time

pick one

:^)
also
>implying reading a little philosophy in your pitiful STEM free-time is at all equatable to being mentored by published philosophers and thinkers daily

>>7212254

>STEM degrees
>Not getting a masters or higher

Cherry picked

http://www.philosophy.umd.edu/undergraduate/careers

>Not a single job directly pertaining to philosophy

Have fun at your local CC teaching to people filling their general Ed reqs

>>7207097
To get a STEM degree is essentially to admit to yourself and society that you are an aesthetically bankrupt human being and that your ultimate goal in life, besides some petty nonsense about money-making, is to subordinate yourself to the demands of society and to contribute to the quality of life of a superior minority (artists, athletes, aesthetes) who are only concerned with their own enjoyment and whose contribution to society, if any, is only incidentally and non-directly derived from such a self-centered enjoyment.

Life really is too short for that nonsense.

I feel sorry for STEM people since they're the ones who do the main work of society where celebrities and their derivatives (artists, performers) just reap the benefits and play games to amuse the rest of us.

>>7207097
If you're not a retard, you can be the best of your promotion/go to one of the best university and get as much prospection as a STEM major, not mentioning connection is clearly more important and, after few years, only experience will count.

>>7212926

The unfortunate part is that you're never going to be published and it's going to poke a giant hole I your ego when you're flipping patties, leading to your inevitable suicide.

>>7212918
>implying there needs to be jobs directly pertaining to philosophy for it to be a good degree for a number of different careers

if anything I'm not limiting myself to a narrow career path

the monetary benefits of studying a STEM subject are very often overstated; I had the choice to study engineering at a good university but why would I do something I hate if the benefits are fairly minimal?

I see college as something practical. I went to college to learn technical skills and that's why i studied electrical engineering.
Most of my classes were pretty awesome. I learned a lot and i also had free time to compose music, write and read.
For me there was no use to go to college for any other deegre. I didn`t need anything too technical that i couldn`t learn by myself to make art. All i needed was my owns experiences, thoughts, emotions and literary baggage. And i think thats one reason why there are so many artists, and almost none scientist or engineer, that didn`t have any formal education. There are even a lot of architectures that never went to college, and architecture is blend of engineering/art.
Sometimes when i read something that my friends who studied letters or journalism wrote, i get really depressed. It`s really bad, cliche and they dont seem to have done anything with their lifes. They didnt learn how to work hard, they wasted a lot of time reading what they were told to read, thinking and criticizing how they were told to do. And eventhough i know there are many people who benefit from this kind of education, i feel that the true artist, the talented one, should forge his own path, experiencing his life outside of academia.
Excuse me for any grammar mistake. I am japanese and this is my first post in english.

>>7212988
I don't want to be published

>>7213099

Humanities status: BTFO

>>7213479
Sorry, i didn't get your post. Care to explain?

I'm majoring in film studies at a mediocre public university. I actually changed my major to that from IS Management. I don't really want an office job and I hated what I was studying, so that's why I changed it. My degree will be pretty useless, but I kind of just want a bachelor's because I'll be the first person in my family to have a degree and it will mean a lot to them and me even if I'm a broke loser; I just want to learn about something that I actually find interesting so I don't have to fake it. On the bright side, I'll be graduating with only like 10 grand of debt, probably less.

>>7213099

Holy crap, I'm saving this.

>>7207097
is pic related related to Pynchon ?
There's no money in poetry, but then there's no poetry in money.

>>7213099
It's not the same for everyone, but what you said is very often true. Kurt Vonnegut said that the best places in college to look for the next waves of excellent writers are fields unrelated to writing because their studies can sort of inspire them. I think he studied chemistry.

>>7207097
>>7207369
>>7207256
Nice meme

>>7213612
Can you find the citation?

>>7213709
http://www.theparisreview.org/interviews/3605/the-art-of-fiction-no-64-kurt-vonnegut
"I’m on the New York State Council for the Arts now, and every so often some other member talks about sending notices to college English departments about some literary opportunity, and I say, “Send them to the chemistry departments, send them to the zoology departments, send them to the anthropology departments and the astronomy departments and physics departments, and all the medical and law schools. That’s where the writers are most likely to be.”

I don't agree with it entirely but it's a good point, though there is plenty of merit in studying literature regardless of whether it can improve your creative writing.

I honestly don't see the point in studying for a technical degree I won't care about. Sure, I could make it as a STEM major, but there's nothing there that even remotely interests me. I'd just be capitulating to the societal expectation of "get a good job, make some good money" which I don't even really care for.

I can just as easily major in English and Philosophy and move on to exist of academia, I could go travel the country afterwards and see how people live, learn more about life than I know, and try to capture it with my art. I want nothing more out of life than time for contemplation and composition of my works, and whether or not other people like them is ultimately irrelevant, it is for my own edification. My existence is finite, and wasting my time posting on 4chan is already enough of a transgression, why waste years in a field that I couldn't care less about?

>>7213772
outside of academia*

>>7213612
Didn't Vonnegut study anthropology?

>>7213797
biochemistry

Because jobs like that are really stressful and take a huge amount of time and effort to keep your knowledge up to date.

I would much rather work at a bookstore or something.

>>7213749
Thanks.

The trouble with being educated is that it takes a long time; it uses up the better part of your life and when you are finished what you know is that you would have benefited more by going into banking.

-- Philip K. Dick

>>7207097
Depends where you go to school. I'm on scholarship at a private liberal arts school. It has a near 100% job placement and grad school acceptance rate. I already have a position as an office assistant to my concentration's department and I'll be TA'ing at least one class next year as an undergrad. I also network my ass off and create personal relationships with my professors.

>>7207256
This isn't true at all. Philosophy majors on average score second highest on the LSAT (Math is the highest). It's all about

a.) Where you went to school.
b.) Did you network? Do you have people who can vouch for you?

>>7213799
>>7213797
He started at biochemistry but sucked at it, I think. I'm assuming he got his bachelor's but I don't know if it ended up being in biochemistry. He went for his master's in anthropology but I don't think he completed it.

>>7213926

What kind of jobs are they placed in?

>>7213099
Great post. Thanks anon.

>>7214211
I believe he did not complete his masters in anthro. There's an essay in Palm Sunday that he claims is his rejected masters thesis. (It's great too, the best essay in that collection, I don't know why they would have rejected it. Maybe it's all a joke.)

The primary reason one should major in any subject is simply because you fucking love it. Acting according to any other logic is antithetical to the pursuit of maximum happiness.

>>7214289
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Cradle

figured it out, after that thesis was rejected, he used Cat's Cradle and got the degree

>>7214301
Not necessarily. Some people honestly love wealth more than school and are overall happy studying something boring to them because it will guarantee some other desire they have that money can achieve.

Those people are boring in my experience.

>>7214301
I love literature but that doesn't mean i would like to study it in a college environment.

>>7214314
I'm skeptical to acknowledge that type of fulfillment as constituting the utmost happiness. They might think they're happy, they might even be genuinely happy, but not as maximally happy as they could've been had they pursued their real passions.

>>7214328
You don't think there are genuine hedonists?

>>7214340
I think there are people who become convinced over time that pleasure is the only thing worth pursuing, but it's not an irrevocable process. Nor is it something intrinsic to their nature.

>>7214324
Fair point, but even if you don't enjoy studying literature in a college environment you can view it as an investment towards a greater reward, i.e., mastery, career pertaining to it

>>7213612

yeah but that's also come from Kurt fucking Vonnegut

>>7214303
nice, good find

Everyone should read the Palm Sunday masters thesis essay though, it's great. It's about graphing stories. Turns out Cinderella looks almost identical to the Bible

>>7213099
I'm pretty sure this is pasta. Like, 95% sure.

I always loved books and indie movies and writing, but I decided to study medicine.

Now my life is pretty much 100% medicine.
Don't think you can "do it in your free time".

You will end up mediocre if you are like that. If you want something, you must suffer for it and pursue like it is your one true love.

At least imo that's what it's seemed like for me.

I used to watch hundreds of movies no-one ever heard of every year, reads tons of great books, and write every day, now I do none of those things.

I love working on being good at medicine, but I do pine for what I lost.