/lit/ - Literature

Here's the second page. Object of it was to be as descriptive as you could in 2 pages.

>>7204819
>my buddy
Suuuuuure

My opinion is I don't care and I want you to stop making off-topic threads.

Well, it's fucking awful, but secretly he already knew that.

Is English his first language?

>Us pigeons

lul

>>7204819
I'd say it's an unacceptable university level submission and that it's incomplete.

That because

Last sentence on the first page had me in tears

If the point is to be descriptive he failed badly. All he does is write a pigeon eye view of the world. He could have written 2 pages on just want a pigeon looks like and would have fulfilled the requirements better.

delicious meals
isolated spots

These are just lazy cliches that sound descriptive but are there as a substitute for descriptiveness.

>>7204819

High school freshman tier.

BUT WHAT DO THE OTHER PIGEONS DO

>>7204819
Whoever wrote this is terrible and should never write again.

This is something you would write in like fucking eighth grade, what's he doing?

things like this make me feel better about myself for a second, but then almost immediately i begin to wonder if i'm just as terrible in different ways that i can't see, but everyone notices

>>7204819
>Life in New York is very interesting.
a 50 is pretty generous. this is a phenomenally poor line. the density of triteness is stunning. 'Life in X...', that's a platitude. setting it in New York, arguably cliché, glamoring life in New York, that's banal. 'very', that's useless. 'interesting', that's meaningless. really impressive opener.
>It seems that there is always somrthing happening throughout this city of lights.
holy shit
>In fact, I have never seen the city at rest.
3/3 on the clichés my man, I'd guess your friend is just a dope trying to get through an assignment in a subject he doesn't care about, but that doesn't explain why he'd think he deserves more than a 50. but maybe that sort of person genuinely would think this passes for good writing, maybe it takes that sort of detachment from anything to do with literary interest, kind of like someone who heckles at a standup show and insists that's just part of it

gonna skip ahead. I disagree with the teacher about the 'Humans refer to us as dirty creatures' thing, that it needs to be clear what 'us' means at that point, obviously that's a slow reveal over the following paragraphs. I also disagree with the grade, should've been around 10-15

>>7204876
Nobody is THIS bad.

>Us pigeons

fuck sake

>>7204819

Lets see; surely it can't be so bad. . .
>Day after day I observe the repeated actions of everything within my point of view and I realize how humans are not as free as they believe to be.

50 is generous.

Pretty bad, but some of the professor's edits seem unnecessary.

Would have been cute if written by a fifth grader.

>>7204819
Stopped reading after the first line

>not satire

>>7204880
He might be taking a post post modernist approach to writing. As you pointed out, the first three opening sentences could not have been worded worse, truly a genius.

>50
>for that

TEARS

>us pigeons

M NIGHT SHYLAMAMALAMALAN IS THAT YOU?

Just caught on that it is from the perspective of a pigeon.

>I have only seen them be violent towards themselves so why fear them?

Top fucking notch

>>7204880

OP is actually a case study in banality. As such, it is extraordinarily well-written, making it a delightful ironic play between form and content, and a POMO masterpiece.

Still better than Tao Lin, Ben Brooks and Mira Gonzalez combined.

A PIGEON DOESN'T THINK IN ENGLISH IDIOT

>>7204965
>implying you could know nagel

>>7204965
Also my biggest problem with this otherwise well constructed critique on the vapid nature of the entire school system.

>>7204819

>We do not make much commotion and I am not used to having much of it throughout my environment because I was raised outside of the city, in a quiet park in which noise was absent.

Is this pigeon possessed by Molly Bloom or some shit?

>>7204952
no argument there

>>7204819
IS THIS MAN A GENIUS OR AN IMBECILE?

The sentences that just stop make me think this might actually be a work of genius, but it's

This is why I could never be a teacher. I only got 4 sentences in before giving up.

>>7204995

He transcends the dichotomy. He transcends all dichotomy.

Confirmed for deity.

>>7205011

You need a perfect mixture of equal parts idealism and masochism to be a teacher.

>>7205094

Teacher here

Yes

>>7204825
>because <new paragraph> Us pigeons are

what

>>7205094
>>7205100
also teacher
correct

>>7205100
>>7205128
>Fellow teachers on /lit/
What do you people teach?

>Humans refer to us as dirty creatures
>Who? New Yorkers?
10 outta fucking 10

Pigeon/10

>>7204819
This is how a stupid person interprets their surroundings -- just a bunch of unconnected observations. Ultimate normie paper

riddled with cliche, isn't descriptive, it's a complete mess

>>7204819
>it's unique personality
>it's
>not even circled
Your buddy is getting more points than he should and the lack of education he deserves.

>>7204952
Mira Gonzalez is actually pretty good, you guys should give her an honest chance.

what do you guys think of my essay :3
had to use their set of sources so it's not terribly well supported

http://pastebin.com/P1Q9YPTu

>>7204819
>Hey /lit/ my buddy wrote this then complained about getting a 50.
I agree, he should have failed.

OP, this "teacher" should be censured by the academic board that oversees the integrity of this university.

This paper is a masterpiece. The author invites us to examine the plain language we use to describe everyday life. These platitudes in the opening paragraph confront us unapologetically, forming a salvo against the hyperbolic reach of college essays. How trite these words ring to cynical, sclerotic ears and yet how easily one would nod in agreement when hearing these words over libations in good company.

Already, we are shown to be but jesters in our caps and gowns, while OP's friend triumphs in his sincere depiction of the quotidian musings of a city pigeon.

In these tumultuous times, one cannot ignore how the pigeon forces us to check our human privilege and lucidly parallels the racial tensions in the very city he flies above.

This noble creature is content to tell us his story of humble dwelling though we know he soars above us in both our polluted air and the vacuum of our empty morality.

Remind your friend, OP, that all great truths and great works are ridiculed in their own time, and there is undoubted greatness in the posthumous legacy that awaits.

>>7204819
>mfw after the first sentence

>>7205228

I read the Non-Specific Thoughts poem and found it pretty mediocre, tending towards good. But not extraordinary or great by a long shot.

Any recommendations?

>>7205148
Kek

a 50 is a fucking gift

>>7204819
"in a quiet park in which noise was absent"
kek

more engaging than taipei though

>>7205393
I'm sorry, it just doesn't cut it
please reconsider the descriptions you are using and insert meaningless platitudes and pull out words like hyperbolic
I've read some very good pseud editorials on different works, this one just isn't up to par

>>7204819
that was pretty bad

>>7205393
kek

>>7205140
English, Lit, History, and Geology teacher here (high school)

Everyone saying

>the first line

skipped the best part, in my opinion.

This paper opens with the stunning

>Descriptive Writing

Underlined, left-aligned.

No author's name, no course title, no professor's name. No title of the piece. Just

>Descriptive Writing

None of the banality in the text itself is half what we find, laid bare, unenthused, unimaginative, simply there, foretelling the author's small world of boredom, bloat, and bare-minimum.

"Descriptive Writing" coldly welcomes us into two pages of intellectual death, which will culminate in the death of the author's will even to continue writing and finish the assignment.

I could go on about the choice of New York, not the real New York, but the New York of death which darkly emanates from I <3 NY t-shirts and big apple clichés, the New York of the small-town kid dreaming of leaving the only world he's ever known to go to the place of bright lights, the willed exchange of real life for television dreams, the half-suicide. And of course the whole piece is suicidal, but I won't go into that in this post.

>>7204819
Masterpiece

What do you guys think of the revisions I've made? Would you give this paper an A?

For real...I actually do see where this is coming from. While not descriptive in the sense that an object or place is made clear in your mind's eye it beautifully describes a feeling. This poor genius let's us in on his world of being misunderstood. True art is never appreciated and so he takes it to an extreme. He sells his soul to clichés and vapid concepts. He shows his professor the way he sees those others in his class. He, through this paper, has shown what a tortured genius he truly is. Through this unfinished piece we see that he has finally broken, finally succumbed to the bland world around him. Rest in peace, hero.

This reads like he has never read a book in his life.
>>7206610
Underrated post.

>>7206700
well if i don't im gay so yeah of course

>>7206771
faggot detected

>>7204965
>tfw when I'm 1000 pages into a novel written entirely in what I believe to be pigeon speak

>>7205140
Freshman comp.
T_T My life is hell.

Not OP, but how do I become a better writer? This is coming from someone who only took 1 general education writing class in college

>>7206831
the two most basic rules of thumb would be:
-Avoid stock phrases, repetition of descriptive words, just general repetition in your writing style
-Cut out anything that is unnecessary (if you can say something with the same impact with fewer words, use fewer words)

if you follow these two rules: congratulations, you're now in the top prose tier of fanfiction writers

>>7206700
>i'm a fat bird with a fat dick
I love you anon

can you actually live "in" central park? is OPs "friend" homeless?

>>7205140
intro to phil in high school

>>7207387
did you fucking read it? he's writing from pov of a pigeon

>>7207387
R u retarted¿

>>7204918
What tipped you off? The line that starts "us pigeons"?

>>7205608
Yeah, because irony isn't a thing.

this was great

any more pigeoncore?

>>7208984
Yes.

That genuinely would've been more engaging if he just left the sheets blank

>>7204819

One thing I do like is how the point of view (pigeon) is revealed gradually. The grader was hasty in jumping on the referent of 'us' at the start of para 2. Some of the criticism here is warranted (it's cliched in places e.g.), but I for one thought the reveal was a good idea.

amusingly bad, thanks for the smug feels

>>7209281
>The grader was hasty in jumping on the referent of 'us' at the start of para 2
Seems like a good reason to read something through before marking it up. Our man Wallace read through all of his students' assignments three times for example. Of course teachers are overworked for what they're paid and this makes for more work..

>>7206818
You're reading Finnegans Wake too?

You are all insensitive idiots. This pigeon is trying so hard to learn our ways, and yet you laugh at him.

>>7204819
>criticising 'humans refer to us as dirty creatures' for not being clear
C'mon, prof, that element of mystery is the one redeeming feature.

>>7206700
Actually quite good/10

>>7206064
>>7206826
>>7207391
>lit is full of high school teachers

lel

>>7206700
/lit/ pls go
oh...

>>7206700
a+ but im still gay

>>7209524
I guess I should have been clearer. I teach comp at a big state university. Whenever people post college threads I have seen a few anons say they go there, so I won't say which one.

>>7204876

>>7205393
>These platitudes in the opening paragraph confront us unapologetically, forming a salvo against the hyperbolic reach of college essays. How trite these words ring to cynical, sclerotic ears and yet how easily one would nod in agreement when hearing these words over libations in good company.

>>7204819
>after experiencing them

POST YOURS THEN /LIT/

let's see how smart you pseudo-intellectual motherfuckers are

>>7209637
I'm not ready yet

>>7209637
my writing is in this thread
it's the pastebin

>>7209637
>>7206700

>>7209637
My what?

>>7209971
genitals

>>7209971
Your description of life as a pigeon in New York giving an inordinate fuck about humans for some reason.

>>7210036
This sounds like the basis for a bad Dreamworks film that the production team will likely hope people will mistake for Pixar.

Well, it's not good, but if he's just a freshman in high school he has time to impro--

>university-level submission

Oh my.

Interesting piece on Creative Writing courses

http://www.thestranger.com/books/features/2015/02/27/21792750/things-i-can-say-about-mfa-writing-programs-now-that-i-no-longer-teach-in-one

Prepare for some tough love if you're a creative writing student

>>7204819
>From my point of view
>it's maintained to be beautiful
>give the place "it is" unique personality
>Using contractions in a college paper
>colours/grey

Where is this from? UK? Australia? I thought those guys were way more intelligent than us here in the US. What gives? I didn't even go to school for English, and I know this paper is shit. Like 8th grade shit.

i feel really bad for the person who wrote that. The person gave them Zero usable feedback, except fixed some grammar.

I like when my TAs give me a paragraph or two, and a list of suggestions. This author will learn nothing from this exercise. I hope that class is free.

>>7210126
good article

>>7210126
>It's not important that people think you're smart.

Almost all of the writers whose work I've seen on /lit/ desperately need the advice in this paragraph.

>>7206818
laughed

>>7210126
>Without exception, my best students were the ones who read the hardest books I could assign and asked for more. One student, having finished his assigned books early, asked me to assign him three big novels for the period between semesters. Infinite Jest, 2666, and Gravity's Rainbow, I told him, almost as a joke. He read all three and submitted an extra-credit essay, too. That guy was the Real Deal.
hey I'm that student
this week I'll finish all 8 books required for an writing course I'm sitting in on
read 700 pages just this weekend

talent and enough willpower for learning can't be equated with good writing though, imo. I can write but I can't do anything but romanticism and see all the other readings through a lens that impresses my own views. Might give serious writing a try at some point, but i just don't see it happening and my writing professors aren't pushing me very hard. and my major is completely unrelated too lol
and no way in hell am I switching to humanities

>>7204819
is this guy in 8th grade?

>>7210126
>http://www.thestranger.com/books/features/2015/02/27/21792750/things-i-can-say-about-mfa-writing-programs-now-that-i-no-longer-teach-in-one
>writers are born with talent
stopped there. thats bs

>>7204819
ITT: Retards who dont understand that as a pidgeon the writing is suppose to be dim and monotone.

>>7210504
It was actually a good article, your doing yourself a disservice by not reading the whole thing. I know /lit/ thinks they know everything about anything, but it's pretty silly to dismiss something on one dissenting opinion alone. also you're wrong

This while thread is a twist. OP is the teacher that gave him the 50

>>7210126
>Just because you were abused as a child does not make your inability to stick with the same verb tense for more than two sentences any more bearable. In fact, having to slog through 500 pages of your error-riddled student memoir makes me wish you had suffered more.

>>7210504
nice selective reading pleb
stay in your school reading club, underage

>>7210933
I don't like you but you're right
Just something about the matter-of-factness
Work on that

>>7210532
And yet incomplete with poor punctuation?

>>7209637
Post my what? Descriptive writing?

You'll have to define descriptive writing. I'm a little vague about what it is.

I never went to college. I dropped out of school when I was 13, as you do sometimes.

The teacher didn't even catch all the grammatical errors, he was too dumbstruck by how bad it was as a whole.

He probably felt overwhelmed and slightly nauseous with pity.

>>7210955
IT'S
A
METAPHOR
bud

>>7211095
My name is Brad, not Bud

>>7211140
IT'S A METAPHOR
BRAD

>>7211140
Oh Brad

>>7204819

Stopped after the second sentence. Are you, I mean, is "your buddy" still in high school?

>>7204981
I kek'd

>>7204850
Kek

I'm crying with laughter and finally I remember why I still come to this stupid website after almost 10 years. It's threads like this.
>>7206610
>I could go on about the choice of New York, not the real New York, but the New York of death which darkly emanates from I <3 NY t-shirts and big apple clichés, the New York of the small-town kid dreaming of leaving the only world he's ever known to go to the place of bright lights, the willed exchange of real life for television dreams, the half-suicide. And of course the whole piece is suicidal, but I won't go into that in this post.

>>7211545
Why does everyone think OP is the guy? He seems to be having a laugh at his expense

>>7204819
FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE CITY IS BEAUTIFUL DURING THE DAY WITH AN ACCEPTABLE BALANCE BETWEEN CITY AND NATURE

>>7209637
>mfw everyone shits on OP but no one has been able to come up with anything better

>>7210126
there are a lot of problems with this piece that speak more to his incompetence as a teacher than anything else.

>You can't make people good at writing, although that's what I was paid to do. As most of us in the biz understand, you need to wait until you get a student who is already good at it and doesn't need to be taught. I am incapable of imagining a teacher having made them who they are (he or she would need to be a much better teacher than I am, which is impossible) so it's probably a trait they're born with.

but much of his advice is still a little helpful.

>>7212420
>>7206700 is literally 9000 times better, though.

The fact that a pidgeon is capable of using human language and is enrolled in college classes merits at least an 80 in my opinion.

>>7209401
This man raises a fantastic point about our pigeon prejudice and expectations.

>>7204861
Yeah but don't you think it's an interesting perspective to write from? It's worth exploring.

i would give this kid's paper a b tbh

>>7212420
The old "lets see you do better fallacy". OP, I say this with utter candour and goodwill. An actual pigeon is probably more intelligent than you are and would provide a more compelling account of a pigeon's weltanschaaung simply by taking a generously feathered shit on the page.

>>7204819
>204819▶>>7204832 >>7204846 >>7204866 >>7204868 >>7204880 >>7204886 >>7204890 >>7204981 >>7204995 >>7205190 >>7205208 >>7205237 >>7205430 >>7205558 >>7205636 >>7206642 >>7209281

tbh fam...

This is a C paper at best. And we are talking college here...first and second year english is filled with students looking for some credits or a bunch of undeclared. People in college are just high school students. Just as dumb, just as ignorant, but interested and motivated.

This is to be expected. Especially if he came out of english in a public school.

Now that being said...he should have taken an AP Language course or something. That was one of the most rigorous courses of anything I have ever taken including college. My teacher was hard-fucking-core, but I know every single person who passed that class whether with a D or an A came out a better writer and prepared for college.

This guy didn't. But he's not really to blame. Have you been to public school? It's a goddamn joke. So much of a joke that intelligent kids are flunking out because they aren't challenged or interested.

>>7214113
>public school is shit meme
I live don Long Island and my school offered a wide array for AP level courses and highly skilled teachers who actually wanted to teach. Most of the kids there were self motivated, forward thinkers as well.

>>7212662
>>7210504
these tbh. I'll repost it here for anyone who hasn't read the article:

>Writers are born with talent.

>Either you have a propensity for creative expression or you don't. Some people have more talent than others. That's not to say that someone with minimal talent can't work her ass off and maximize it and write something great, or that a writer born with great talent can't squander it. It's simply that writers are not all born equal. The MFA student who is the Real Deal is exceedingly rare, and nothing excites a faculty adviser more than discovering one. I can count my Real Deal students on one hand, with fingers to spare.

He doesn't even attempt to back this idea up, implicitly calling his former credentials as unarguable testament to his insight.

>Either you have a propensity for creative expression or you don't.

And whence do they attain or miss this propensity? Experiences with people/family/teachers, teachers like the author himself are what leads a person to having anything interesting to say or do, he's really just absolving himself of any blame for his students lack of prowess.

>Without exception, my best students were the ones who read the hardest books I could assign and asked for more. One student, having finished his assigned books early, asked me to assign him three big novels for the period between semesters. Infinite Jest, 2666, and Gravity's Rainbow, I told him, almost as a joke. He read all three and submitted an extra-credit essay, too. That guy was the Real Deal.

tbh a fair portion of /lit/ would fall under his definition of Real Deal, just by having read a few "difficult" books. And reading 3000 pages or so over the course of 2 months is nothing extraordinary.

His paragraph about publishing is also pretty pointless - "things used to be easy but now they're crazy, don't ask me for help because no one knows anything", again trying to exempt himself from having to say or do anything worthwhile

>>7214113
you type like a faggot
you're probably one of those deeply superior pseud kiddies in my lit classes that don't even read seriously their free time but think they know shit
you're infuriating

>>7212813
>literally endorsing affirmative action for pigeons

>>7214132

Just cause you had a healthy academic environment doesn't mean most people do, you can generalize with more bad experiences then good ones m80. but then again maybe that's just biased cognition :^)

>>7214573
and your shits all retarded too!

Nice idiocracy, /v/ is -> brah.

>>7214113
I know this feel. I went to a fucking huge public school in the countryside and the only thing that happened is half the teachers treated me like shit because I was black and the other half actually knew what they were talking about.

>>7204819
Birds?

>>7204819
50% was charitable.

>>7211691

Typical tactic that allows one to gain honest feedback without the risk of becoming the direct target of ridicule. It's just easy to see through, because in reality no one cares about someone else's writings enough to post it online and ask for opinions.