/lit/ - Literature

why do people keep comparing superman to the ubermensch. its not even a good analogy

>>7160980
people want to pretend that the ubermensch can't exist so they liken it to something fantastical

>>7160973
no this is nietzsche on the superman

>>7161001
The Ubermensch can't exist. It's an ideal to strive towards.

From Thus Spake Zarathustra:

"Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman--a rope over an abyss...
What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end: what can be loved in man is that he is an overture and a going under..."

>>7161098
This. You have to reach for something higher than yourself in order to avoid being a pleb.

>>7161098
i see what you mean. the language used in his various books is somewhat ambiguous in this regard. still, I think that Nietzsche thought of the ubermensch as a manifestation in progress, rather than a "striving towards".
the very nature of the overman implies the former.

>>7161005
What's interesting is Nietzsche would later write that the overman would, ideally from his own perspective, be "A Roman Caesar with the soul of Christ."

>>7161098
It's a bit more nuanced than that, I think. It's not so much that the overman "can't exist," but the process of becoming is never-ending. Man must always be seeking to overcome himself, the same goes for mankind as a whole. However, with that said, I don't see why this process wouldn't allow someone to be accurately described as an 'overman,' just not in a "You're the overman! You've done it!" kind of way.

I've never been much good with the concept of the overman as it relates to Nietzsche's project anyway, and I feel you get much less issues and obscurity when you instead talk about his 'higher men' and ideal aristocrats.

>>7161098
So beasts can't exist is what u r saying.

>>7161098
That's retarded. So does 1st place not exist in the Olympics, or any competition for that matter?

>>7161130
But he was also criticizing the modern project of perpetual personal growth iirc. The last essay in the Genealogy of Morals talks about hoe Kant and Schopenhouer should've taken wives so that they could be held in check from their constant [illusory] improvement.

>>7163455
*how

Freudian keyboard slip 'cause hoes is bitches.

>>7162269
I think I see the point you're trying to make, but in this context it's a non sequitur. Winning the Olympics wouldn't make someone an ubermensch. You have to lose your modern idea of success, which is measured by accomplishments, to understand what Nietzsche meant. An ubermensch isn't someone who has necessarily achieved a lot. It's someone with a certain set of noble virtues and values. Naturally someone with these traits will likely achieve a lot in life, but that's not what it's about. The reason one can't simply become an ubermensch is because, as Nietzsche rightly thought, evolution is a constant process. You don't evolve in the the perfect being and then stop there.

>>7163455
So the problem is the illusory aspect of improvement. What a fucking retard would think actual improvement is bad in the eyes of Nietzsche is beyond me, so I can only believe you're antagonising here to meet your beastly goals. I know this mindset: no matter what I say, you won't understand it. So you figure you can act like a retard plublicly, that no understanding actually happens, and that communication can be only a form of torture or pleasure. What a fucking animal you are. Literally the biblical definition of a fool: one who can only laugh or rage. Right now you think I am "torturing" you.

>>7163551
Check your ressentiment / paranoiac psychosis bro. What distinguishes false improvement from genuine improvement then?

>>7163614
>What distinguishes false improvement from genuine improvement then?
Clearly cognition. Cognition measurements distinguishes false improvement from genuine improvement. Cognition is the only reason for Authority, and the only way towards Health maintenance/improvement, therefore cognition, intelligence, understanding is the legit best improvement you could measure. There are a few ways one can measure his cognition. Mental chronometry is useful to rank individuals who score the same amount on the same test. Given this is logically rare, IQ becomes a reward for individuals who can answer wrong and fast, at cost of those who take their time and ace the test. Thus the correlation between fast reaction time and general intelligence is false. So cognition, in the sense of being right, logical, having some natural notions of game and decision theory, even some informal experience with the Halting problem, is the genuine improvement you should look for. Given you just want to use your feelings for verifying your intelligence, you should look for general lack of anxiety, expected feedback from your environment, etc

Considering you are dumber than me... it is expected you call me autist, psycho(I expect that you think psychosis is equal to psychopathy, which is not, thus revealing ignorance), or whatever retarded diagnosis a pleb can come up with when confronted with criticism about his pleb behavior and anti-intelectual mindset. So fuck off now.

I am actually.
I learned Russian to perfection (proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEl59biItfY))
I also weild a sword.

>>7161130
>What's interesting is Nietzsche would later write that the overman would, ideally from his own perspective, be "A Roman Caesar with the soul of Christ."

What book is this in? I thought he hated Christianity.

>>7164211
He never wrote that, its made up garbage.

>>7164211
>What book is this in? I thought he hated Christianity.

Will to Power. And while he hates Christianity, he loves Christ as someone who created values and changed humanity; surely the extent to which his Will to Power extended exceeds almost everyone else in history.

"I know men and I tell you that Jesus Christ is no mere man. Between Him and every other person in the world there is no possible term of comparison. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creation of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded His empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him." ---- Napoleon

Christ's art lives on.

>>7164230
k

>>7164247
>will to power

so he never wrote that and it's made up garbage

>>7164256
I don't understand what that image has to do with what I've said. N.'s views on anything are incredibly two-sided and nuanced. It's very similar to how he views Socrates: corruptive upon what he sees as the ideal balance of Apollonian/Dionysian elements in society and an ugly inbred, yet necessary for the advancement of mankind and someone whose creative Will has changed history forever. In this latter regard N. respects Socrates. And as N. is disgusted with Christianity, he in fact is impressed with Christ.

And I'll admit WtP has to be carefully considered in regards to its relevancy to the rest of N.'s project, but it's definitely not useless as a lot of contemporary readers and scholars would claim.

>>7161005
>>7164284

>Whosoever’s ears I whispered into that he had better look around for a Cesare Borgia rather than a Parsifal would not believe his ears.

Oh nietzsche why are you always so right.

>>7164299
You haven't said anything... N.'s reasons for hating Parsifal, a life-denying ascetic whose chastity is not out of sublimation but sickliness, don't apply to how he would view Christ, a supreme example of a creative-type who used the world as his canvas.