/lit/ - Literature

Yes, and well said.

>>714856
Did it ever have decent a cover?

I would not dismiss that quote so readily, thought - for exactly the reason you've put forward. A man falling in love with an image that replaces its object just might be the perfect love story for the XX century.

>His "sincere" love for Lolita is for an image of a young girl not the girl herself. He's a monster who, while sympathetic, still rapes and captures a young girl.

>girl girl girl

But still a good point.

Also, "Reading Lolita in Tehran" touches on this.

>>714869

>A man falling in love with an image that replaces its object just might be the perfect love story for the XX century.

Very true.

I just hope the write at Vanity Fair knows that.

quote is still pretty true considering the other shit we have been lling romance lately.

Agree completely on the covers, I've only ever seen one I sort of liked.

And fuck Vanity Fair, they probably didn't even read the book or apparently completely missed the entire point, as you said.

I personally really like that cover. I think it strikes a balance between sexuality and innocence. Showing how those lines can be blurred based on perception. The quote non-withstanding, I think it's a damn good cover.

I have the edition with the cover of the girls lips.

More Lolita threads? We've JUST had one that was deleted...

>>714884

My problem is that the covers dehumanize Lolita the very same way Humbert does. Readers go into the story thinking, "Oh, I guess it's about a sexual little girl" NOT "Oh, this is about a guy who chooses to view a girl as sexual." It's troubling.

>I think it strikes a balance between sexuality and innocence.

You're right, but the book is about sexualizing innocence, not the balance between.

love story about lolis?
twilight is better

there's that other cover with the lips

and did you know the lips were originally sideways, but the editors said no because it looked too vaginal

anyone offended by what almost looks like a vagina on the cover of Lolita would have an aneurysm if they actually read the damn thing

>>714903
I agree with that. I'm thinking in terms of having never read the book and just so happen to stumble on it at a bookstore.

Also: http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnzarow/sets/72157622389801039/detail/

>>714903

She was sexual. She was deflowered before Humbert met her. Charlie at Camp Q did it.

>>714911
And she was 12.

>>714896

What happened was I actually typed up a serious response to that thread, which is probably ill-advised for anything involving Lolita and 4chan.

But then it was deleted and I was like, "OH MAN, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS NOW."

>>714915

So that makes her ... yes, a sexual little girl.

>>714923

Sexual or sexualized? Statutory rape is statutory rape. She was being taken advantage of due to her age. She is only seen as a willing accomplice to the act when Humbert wants her to be.

I have this one. It's a hardcover and comes with a ribbon bookmarker. I don't think it's bad.

>>714940

Sexual to some small degree but then mostly sexualized further by Humbert.

>>714946

Yeah, it lets the reader realize the book is mainly about an older dude afraid of aging and dying rather than a "love story" he has with a girl young enough to be his daughter.

I'm pretty sure Vanity Fair was just trying to be edgy when they wrote that.

>>714972

Exactly.

Magazines like Vanity Fair are always pulling stuff like this out of their asses when it comes to books. The back cover of Douglas Coupland's Generation X says "A modern-day Catcher in the Rye" - Cosmopolitan

Anyone else annoyed that Bookstores only seem to stock Lolita and none of Nabokov's other works?

I thought the moral was women are cockteases regardless of age.

>>714997

It's his most popular one by far. But I've seen Pale Fire and Ada or Ardor as well.

>>714997

In the 90s, Penguin pretty much released all his work and I lapped it up.

>>714990
Because the whole point is to get your magazine free advertising by being quoted on the back of a bestseller. And it works.

>>714940
The first time he fucked her she was sleeping and not even willing.

>>715091

Wrong. She actually initiated it. Well, that's if we are to totally believe Humbert.

>>714856
I'm annoyed that people liked Lolita more than Laughter In The Dark.

>>715100
Huh ? Are you sure ? Because I'm pretty sure that she was a sleep and then when they drove out of the hotel Lolita said something along the lines of : '' You raped me, you pig '' or something like that, then Humbert got nervous and started sweating. At least that's how I remember it.

>>715106

Pretty sure. Humbert addresses his "ladies and gentlemen of the jury" and categorically states that it was her who initiated the sex. This happened as she had been having sex with Charlie at Camp Q all summer, so she got a taste for it. Once she was back with Humbert, she decided she wanted to play the same "game" with him.

I design my own cover.

>>715120
I think it only happened once. I remember after she had sex with Humber she "couldn't sit down" because something "inside her had broke" (paraphrasing, not sure of exact quote) i.e. Charlie didn't break her hymen/deflower her.

>>715146
That's pretty funny

>first serious thread about Lolita in ages
>my face

>>715147

Yeah, Humbert gets her a box of tampons after their first night together, implying he took her cherry, Either that or we are being asked to believe she has started her period.

>>715120
He lied to the Jury, as the first time he took the courage to fuck her she had been asleep and he paniced when she noticed.

>>715160
She was not a virgin, Charlie fucked her before.

take this

>>715175

Here check:
http://www.vahidnab.com/lolita.pdf

Page 95.

>>715186
...

I'm no longer happy...

>>715175
Well, that's when he gave her a pill that he thought was a soporific (which it wasn't). He didn't fucked her that night because she would've notice.

>>715188
This is odd as shit, my version was completely different.

>>715194
Yea he hesitated, but then not long after that event they drove off in the car and she said that he raped her, and Humbert got nervous.

>>715198

Really? It's as I remember it and if I could be bothered to walk over the bookshelf and take down the hardcopy I could double-check.

One of the effects that good books produce for me is that I tend to begin experiencing the events vicariously through the protagonist. So, for example, when Lolita ran away with Quilty I felt something like the desperation that Humbert felt. So as I read the book there was a tension between honestly empathising with Humbert and recoiling in horror away from him when his behaviour became absolutely reprehensible (2nd half of the book especially, when he begins to enslave Lolita).

Obviously this is quite disturbing when you are inhabiting the body of a peadophile. Made for some giant boners though lolololol.

>>715206
My version was translated from Russian to my mother tongue so it could definitely be a bit different, but still I do not even remember that scene being in there which is odd.

>>715210
I cheered for Humbert from start to finish. He to me was a likable character and as you stated you can connect with him, at least I did.

>>715215

Looks like you were at the mercy of a bad translation.

>>715219

Looks like you fell for Nabokov's trap then. He was made to be likeable, thoug of course by society's standards he was actually a monster.

>>715219
same

>>715220
>>715215
Nabobov wrote Lolita in English!!!

.>>715219
He was a completely prententious, arrogant, heartless bastard. The way he is was with Charlotte was truly inhuman/sociopathic.
That's why it creates the tension between empathising and despising him. I think if you were completely cheering for him all the way through then the ending wouldn't have been as cathartic as it was, because that's when Humbert himself expresses his dolorous expressions of regret and the admittance of his own monstrosity.
You have to be cheering for the human inside him at the point, rather than the monster.

>>715234
Definitely! I agree with you. I just got done finishing Lolita actually. And I was constantly oscillating back and forth between empathizing with him and hoping the opposite of what he wanted happened. I think you root for that human side of him to win out.

>>715234
I like his " prententious, arrogant, heartless bastard" side.

Great thread

Check out the first part of this book.

They get into some pretty heavy stuff concerning whether or not you should trust Humbert's description of Lolita.

>>715674
This actually has anything to do with literature? I figured it was chick-lit memoir style.

>>715698

It's essentially literary analysis under the Ayatollah.

This thread cleared a lot up about Lolita for me.

I thought this would be a trollita thread

>>715752
Have you read it yet?

i liked that lolita was just a twisted as he was

>>715790

Was she?

Enjoy some Lolita covers through the ages.

http://www.librarything.com/work/913/covers/60233601

>>716002
The main one (in the far upper left) is the best imho. But there is a painting that is almost exactly the same, except the girl is looking away. Same artist, I would think.

>>715790
we can't really know how Lolita actually is since everything is told by Humbert

>>716044
the painter's name is Balthus

>>714870
I LOVED that book. Read it for my women's lit class.

>>715790
I don't know. I don't remember Lolita kidnapping small children and driving them around the country from hotel to hotel as she used them for sexual favors...

>>714869
the OP cover was pretty good imo. [mininalistfag here]

>>716047
Agreed. From the hints we get, Lolita seems like an average girl, not the fantastic, demonic nymphet Humbert sees her as. In fact, originally Humbert was going to tutor some random girl he assumed was a nymphet (without even seeing her) but when her house burns down he winds up staying with Mrs. Haze and Lolita and she just happens to be a nymphet too. We also get that scene right after Lolita comes back from summer camp and Humbert states that she doesn't look as pretty as he imagined she was in her absence.

i have read alot of really great books, this wasnt one of them

but i was raped so maybe i am biased against it

>>716099
Hmm. Well, I can't say anything about your experience, since I haven't experienced it, but Humbert is definitely not portrayed in a positive light.

>>715106

This person has a dangerously terrible memory of the book. Lolita initiated the first sexual encounter. Her comment about him raping her is part of her manipulation.

>>716134

What first sexual encounter? If I recall right, he drugged her and raped her on the couch.

>>716168
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>716168

That never happened.

>>716168
No. They were in a hotel. But it didn't keep her asleep, as far as I remember.

He drugged her, she fell asleep. Then she woke up and was the one who initiated sex with him. She wasnt satisfied by this encounter, and the rest of book is about her trying to get away from him, while he lusts after her.

Humbert is an amazing artist, but he's sexually impotent. Even lolita becames aware of this. Pretty much the heart of the book.

>>716168
There was a point when he had her laying on the couch with her legs across his lap. He massaged a bruise on her leg and then moved towards her crotch, eventually he "crushed out against her left buttock the last throb of the longest ecstasy man or monster had ever known", or something to that effect, not sure of the exact wording.

>>716200
take it from people who read the book, it was on a fold out bed.

>>716205
"By this time I was in a state of excitement bordering on insanity; but I also had the cunning of the insane. Sitting there, on the sofa, I managed to attune, by a series of stealthy movements, my masked lust to her guileless limbs.
[...]
"Oh, it's nothing at all," she cried with a sudden shrill note in her voice, and she wiggled, and squirmed, and threw her head back, and her teeth rested on her glistening underlip as she half-turned away, and my moaning mouth, gentlemen of the jury, almost reached her bare neck, while I crushed out against her left buttock the last throb of the longest ecstasy man or monster had ever known."

Hey, I did get the wording right too.

>>716218
She was wearing shorts, I believe, and they were sitting on the couch together. No sexing occurred.

>>716230
I would still consider that a sexual encounter

>>716230
I never said that sex did occur, on the contrary I was rebutting someone who said that sex occured on a couch when in fact it was only a masturbatory affair.

>>715215
Interesting. I'm now reading a translation from Russian into my own native language and I'd say that it matches the English original (or at least the memories I have of it) pretty much exactly.

I just can't recall Lolita taunting him for the first sexual encounter, I remember Humbert going out of the room nervously and walking around a bit, going down to the bar etc. Then he came back and we do not know what happened, untill a scene later in the car when Lolita said that he had raped her. I stopped reading at around page 220 or so ...so maybe something happened that came back to that event later in the book but I do not recall in my version anything specific about the first sexing except for Humbert beign nervous as fuck and then pages later Lolita telling him that he raped her.

I think one has to have a pretty thick skull to think it was her to initiate the thing, and that she truly seduced Lolita. Humbert = unreliable narrator. Should be pretty clear that 13-year-old girls don't seduce middle-aged men, anyways, as charming as Humbert believes himself to be. Also, having sex with children her age doesn't make her precocious or ready for being raped by adults, it makes her a normal, curious young girl.

>>714856
>implying you cant fall in love in a little girl

>>714997
I'm greatly annoyed, it's not even of his greater books or anything. Just popular because of the whole "lol loli sex" thing.

>13-year-old girls don't seduce middle-aged men

Umm.....you havent many many 13 year old girls huh?

>>718236
> Then he came back and we do not know what happened
Huh, yeah, we know what happened...

>I stopped reading at around page 220
my face

It wasnt even her first time. The book shows kinda clearly that her mother did a horrible job of raising her, so she somehow thinks of sex almost like handshake, like it's no big deal, so she doesnt think there's anything really wrong with porking her mother's husband.

It also says she was involved in some regular threesomes at the camp she was at. I find that hotter than her getting down with a neurotic old frenchman.

>>718381
that's not seduction

>>718387
weirdo

>>718391
when i was 13, this girl i had a crush on would always go over to her 30 year old married neighbors house, wearing a bikini, and lay around and tan on his porch. Then she'd flirt with him any time she saw him.

I dunno if he ever did anything, but she was definitely trying. It happens, girls that age can be real nasty whores.

>>718393
You are forgetting which website you are browsing.

>>718396
just like your mother

>>714856
One of the interesting things of the book is that her name isnt really Lolita. It's Delores. Nobody else in the book calls her Lolita except for Humbert. He sees her as someone she isnt, thats sort of the very basic plot of the book right there.

I really want to have sex with 12 year olds.

>>718457
Agreed.

>>718457
you have to wait until 13 at least, so their vages are functional and everything.

>>718385
So it gets explained later ?

>>718381
Well, if they do, they do so innocently, not looking for sex. It's more of a safe-crush thing: you like an adult because you know nothing can't happen. It's just playing, looking for attention; that's exactly why Hums are so bad.

>>718387
Even if Lolita was a complete slut, which she wasn't IMHO, that doesn't justify anyone *raping* (or sexually abusing) her. Rape is violence. Whether or not you're a virgin has nothing to do with it, other than possibly making it even more hurtful.

>>718473
no he just rambles on and makes no sense for another 200 pages. Yep,. thats why it's a classic and all, because he sets shit like that up and never explains it.

>>718387
>so she somehow thinks of sex almost like handshake, like it's no big deal
only your western judo-christian based values make you think there is necessarily more to sex than the physical act

>>718387
>thinks of sex almost like handshake
LOL U MAD?

>>718482
>judo-christian
The new holier-than-thou martial art.

>>718476
One of the things i like about the book is it exposes something that we, in modern society like to ignore, that little girls can be depraved little perverts. I've seen it myself several times. They're not playing around, they're not innocent, they're trying to get some jizz into their squizz. We like to THINK young girls are so nice and flowery and nice, but it's not really true.

I wouldnt say he raped her the first time he was with her (he does rape her somewhat repeatedly later though). It's a little deeper than just "OMG I WAS RAPED, POOR ME". What makes it a tragedy was that they both wanted this, and it turns out to be the worst thing either one of them could involve themselves in. For humbert, it almost becomes something like Gollum from LODR, something obsessive and controlling. For her, it's a simple mistake a child would make, and it ruins her life.

>>718502
i dont really know what you are trying to say with this

>>718504
>depraved little perverts
again, someone assigning a moral judgment born of their own cultural inoculation
how can you guys hope to view literature with an open mind if you can't even see yourselves?

>>718512
wtf are you even talking about nigger? I'm sure in nigeria that let little girls run around nude and they set up little shops where they suck of big nigger dicks for 2 bits, but in the civilized world, yeah, we kind of do at least attempt to inject a little modesty into our women.

>>718524
modesty is another learned trait. It has no innate value.

im not some hippy nut, i conform to society's expectations generally, but that's because i don't want the trouble of bucking the norm, not because i agree things should be the way they are.

>>718540
or as it seems to be with most of you guys, because i dont even realize most of the values and morals i take for granted are purely constructions, heavily influenced by a set of religions i profess not to agree with.

>>718550
you're still a greasy nigger though, so sorry, argument invalid.

>>718504

But again, how do we really know what Lolita is like? This is all through Humbert's eyes.

And even if she did flirt with him, even if she is spoiled, and even if it isn't her first time, it's still statutory rape.

>>718552
no fucking shit you idiot, you're still kinda missing the big picture here.

>>718557

I think you need to re-read this book.

>>718506
Heh. You wrote "Judo-Christian" - it's "JUDEO-Christian." He was just having a little fun.

Judo is a Japanese grappling marital art.

>>718504
I don't really think the book was anything like LOTR. Just IMO

>>718560
>marital art
Wow. I'm not even gonna make fun of this. You make it too easy

>>718551
you are a talented individual when it comes to debate, i'll give you that.
>>718560
oh, ok.

>>718559
so according to /lit/ it's a book about how wrong it is to molest children, and thats it. Nevermind the thousands of literary references, and the hundreds of observations about why this man does that, and why this woman does that. Nope, it's just about something as trivial as: it's bad to diddle the kiddies. All the book is about, even though it never says anything about that.

Wow, this board sucks. have any of you actually attended a college or.....a grade school or maybe sunday school, something?

>>718504
I sort of agree and sort of not. Children can be perverts, in a way, but I don't think they can be perverts in a way that would actually justify an adult taking action because of their perversion, because as you described what happened between Lo and Hum, they make mistakes so easily.

I do know people, men and women, who as 6-year-olds had sex with each other - and I do mean penetration, ooh ah and so on (without the grande finale, though, obviously) - and that's great for them and completely natural, whereas young children with adults is not. There is such a huge gap in development between a preteen and a middle-aged person that it simply ceases to be natural, even if attraction may occur. Of course, everyone of us sets the border differently (some at 15, some at 18, some at "as long as they are responsible enough"), but most of us see some kind of a border that should not be crossed by an adult, I believe.

tl;dr: I did want to bang my 30+ teacher when I was eleven, yeah, but had she allowed that, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have grown up all that right in the head. So while I kind of agree, I kind of don't.

>>718504
>We like to THINK young girls are so nice and flowery and nice, but it's not really true.

Who likes to think that? Girls can be terrible.

>I wouldnt say he raped her the first time he was with her (he does rape her somewhat repeatedly later though).

Even if he didn't drug her, he committed statutory rape. He manipulated a girl who, despite being physically ready to have sex, was still mentally and emotionally immature.

>What makes it a tragedy was that they both wanted this, and it turns out to be the worst thing either one of them could involve themselves in.

How do we know for sure she wanted this? The story is told through Humbert. He's an unreliable narrator. Pretend the film adaptations don't exist.

>For humbert, it almost becomes something like Gollum from LODR, something obsessive and controlling. For her, it's a simple mistake a child would make, and it ruins her life.

Okay, NOW I'm agreeing with you. Lolita does make a mistake in trusting the controlling Humbert, but you know what? She's a kid. She doesn't know shit. He takes advantage of that.

>>718562
Heh, I appreciate your consideration.

>>718566
>so according to /lit/ it's a book about how wrong it is to molest children, and thats it.

This thread doesn't debate its literary merit. We consider the book literature.

OP just made a thread about why the book is usually illustrated with a soft core, "tantalizing" image when the sexual appeal of Lolita is all from Humbert's point of view.

Leon, or the proffesional took this idea and did it better.
plus it has gary oldman and EVERYOOOOOOONNE

>>718569
>Even if he didn't drug her, he committed statutory rape. He manipulated a girl who, despite being physically ready to have sex, was still mentally and emotionally immature.

And what women IS mentally and emotionally mature for such an encounter? What man is ready for it?

>How do we know for sure she wanted this? The story is told through Humbert. He's an unreliable narrator. Pretend the film adaptations don't exist.

Where did she come from right before their first encounter? The camp, remember? and she had all sorts of sordid tales to tell about what she did there. Sexually, she made the mistake of thinking her meaningless, juvinille encounters would be similar to her getting involved with humbert. She wanted it, yes, though she obviously didnt understand it.

>Okay, NOW I'm agreeing with you. Lolita does make a mistake in trusting the controlling Humbert, but you know what? She's a kid. She doesn't know shit. He takes advantage of that.

No shit, thats what i said.

>>718582
(not the poster you're responding to, but anyways)
>And what women IS mentally and emotionally mature for such an encounter? What man is ready for it?
Uh, what? Most people who have had sex? Some are ready at 15, some at 25, and so on. Depends on the person. Lolita, most obviously, was not.

>Where did she come from right before their first encounter? The camp, remember? and she had all sorts of sordid tales to tell about what she did there. Sexually, she made the mistake of thinking her meaningless, juvinille encounters would be similar to her getting involved with humbert. She wanted it, yes, though she obviously didnt understand it.
Having had sex != wanting each and every cock in the universe

>>718582

1.) Lolita's kid. She may have had sex, she may be spoiled, but she's a kid. A kid is not as emotionally prepared as an adult. If you know a woman who acts like a kid, remember that she is ACTING like a kid; she is not ACTUALLY one.

2.) Humbert is an unreliable narrator. How much did he make up about Lolita's attraction to him? The genius of the novel is that Nobakov makes us sympathize with a monstrous human being.

>Uh, what? Most people who have had sex? Some are ready at 15, some at 25, and so on. Depends on the person. Lolita, most obviously, was not.

So it depends on the person, just not lolita.

>Having had sex != wanting each and every cock in the universe

You might want to hang around more 13 year olds. They want it all.

>>718592
To call him monstrous is a little far. This sort of thing happens a lot. These fantasies exist.......you're on fucking 4chan after all.

He's no more monstrous than you.

>>718599

LOL

>>718595

The FUCK is your problem? Are you just really offended this thread wasn't all about how Lolita was a slut who wanted it? Are you a troll?

>>718599

>These fantasies exist

Hey.

Remember how fantasy and reality aren't the same thing?

Thank you op, as I feel the exact same way. I think Lolita is a marvelous satire and expose on Humbert's poshlost, a concept dear to the Russian Literature tradition but lost on US Americans especially (i've found) who are too consumed in their own poshlust to take note of this. The book had me feeling sick over what was happening. But, like Funny Games, it proved to be a voyeuristic success.

>>718609
Are you sure about that?

Look at chris-chan. ya think he draws a line between the two?

Some people dont know that. Never fucking forget it.

>>718595
>You might want to hang around more 13 year olds. They want it all.

For five second, think with your c/lit/, not your /b/alls.

>>718612

Your example is Chris-chan?

Really?

Sir, you've spent too much time on the Internet.

>>718614
Drive to a mall with four 13 year olds in your backseat. See how much they want.

Oh thats right you cant because you're a sad loser in your moms basement. But if you ever get a job and a wife and children, you may notice these things.

>>718610

I don't think it's exactly a satire, people just forget that all the action of the novel is filtered through the perspective of one individual.

>>718595
>You might want to hang around more 13 year olds. They want it all.
I don't know about you, but at least I have once been a 13-year-old. In the past, you know. I know what it's like to be 13, and I had many friends who were 13 as well. I have some siblings, too, who have also been 13 sometime in their life. I know very well what it's like, and wanting sex with adults is hardly a part of it. Fantasizing about it - maybe. Wanting it - no, no and no. Having sex with an adult male was a frightening thought back then. I confess to having sexual fantasies, though: I wanted a boy of my age to pet my side. I felt a bit strange thinking about it. Very adorable, isn't that.

>>718619
why, is he somehow more ridiculous than humbert?

>>718624
I had a 12 year old hold me down once, and force my junk into her. first sexual experience.

Had a 13 year old seduce me when i was 23. i know how they think sometimes. Not all of them, no, but some of them........

>>718632

>>718632
You had a 12 year old hold you down? I guess it won't be hard for the dudes in prison to do it to you then.

>>718632
>>718625
>>718621

Thanks for ruining a thoughtful discussion thread! Yay!

>>718632

Are you by any chance special needs? You got raped by a 12 year old, then seduced by a 13 year old. How does one get seduced by a 13 year old?

>>718638
i was 12 at the time.

I mean...i realize where i'm posting and sexual encounters with the opposite sex is generally disregarded as impossible, but you have to realize some people actually go outside and experience these things.

But....when you grow up, maybe you'll understand.

Ugh, spoiler

>>718644
Well......she showed up at my house. laid on my bed, and took her pants off.

What do?

>>718645
You were young, doesn't count. It has been said a million times already that it isn't the same thing.

>>718649
And you, as a responsible and thinking adult, could do nothing to prevent committing statuory rape to this girl who was highly likely to be disturbed in one way or another? Did you know that abused children tend to look for abusive adults, because it gives them a feeling of "acceptance" and "self worth" when nothing else does?

>>718645
Well, I guess at 12. I'm not saying that young girls have no sex drive, ffs I literally want to kick the shit out of my 13 year old nieces boyfriend, but then I think, no, because the repression of sexual urges at an early age can often lead to an even more rebellious and discontented outlook. But, i think kids that age should not be subjected to the sexual advances of their elders. Their is too much potential for explicit exploitation. I don't think an adult with a decent sense of self and who is not completely controlled by an their own concept of entitlement would ever think of trying to seduce or even ''be seduced'' by a young girl or boy. It's about self-control.

>>718662
Well there's an issue.

Was i responsible when i let a little girl have that much effect on me? No. Was i thinking? No, i wasnt.

So was Humbert thinking? Was he responsible?

I think someone in this thread has lost the ability to differentiate between some hentai he fapped to and his real life.

Don't worry, little pervert, you wouldn't be the first.
Tell me your adress and I will send someone over to end your miserable excuse for a life today!

>>718674
You are ALWAYS thinking, fuck face. the concept of ''i wasn't thinking'' is an example of cognitive dissonance. And yes, you were responsible. Anyway, I'm sure that you are trolling but if you aren't you should stay away from young girls. It is possible, that a young girl would ''come on'' to you, but her advances bespeak a disturbance or aberration which you should respect, and as her elder do her the justice of at least ignoring it or telling her why it is innapropriate. Anyway, no I don't think there is any way you're not going to hell over this. Sorry.

>>718666
self control? and you have this?

This is why i like the book. I dont have high opinions of humans, i've been around a lot, we're all opportunists in one sense or another. I think Humbert acts as 90% of you would act, though you'd like to not admit it.

It's all fine and good to sit in comfortable chair and talk about morals and such, but when it comes down to the crisis, what will you do? Vegas odds, you'll buckle. get used to it.

>>718679
Sex between 20-year-olds and 13-year-olds does happen, though.

I know from personal experience.

And that's exactly why I've been going to psychotherapy for years and years. I still fear men, especially ones his age, and can't stand the slightest bit of being dominated in bed (first consensual experience at 16) because it gives me horrid, horrid flashbacks. It sucks. And people like him are only able to do it because they ignore all the signals you give (FYI, "I'm afraid" doesn't mean "please stick it in") and think you seduced them and wanted it and so on. Gives you nice little vibes of guilt for the rest of your life.

>>718689
>You are ALWAYS thinking, fuck face

So you're what, 17?

No, you're not always thinking. No, sometimes events take away what is going on in your head.

Let me ask you this. What where you thinking when you brushed your teeth today? When you shampoo'd your hair?

>>718698
I couldn't say, as my self control issues have always dealt with drugs and not with people. Personally, I'm not the type to say kill pedophiles or give them life or whatever. But I do think they are abdicating an essential role in human culture, which is the elder. I think perhaps in the west we have lost the sense of importance attached to our elders, and so have also lost the sense of importance attached to protecting the young. Our culture devalues life, and I see Humbert as a perfect embodiment of this.

>>718707
You're calling me the naieve one? You are idiotic if you think that at certain times, people completely lose cognition, this is not true.

>>718704
you are so weak its pathetic.

>>718707
Stop making excuses. Having sexual intercourse with a child is a highly dramatic action to take, it isn't something that just happens. If you have self control issues that big, I recommend you seek professional help.

>>718716
Well i grew up in the west, and the young were allowed to roam and.............do whatever.


We dont value much of anything here, no. But you have to remember Humbert came from a much more traditional backround. What does that say of him?

Btw it's not all that cool to try to act like an adult when you're strung out on pcp.

>>718725
No? well you've learned nothing from life?

We're not always ourselves. Sometimes, we dont even know who we are supposed to be. Sometimes, there's nothing going on in our heads.

>>718729
It was a traumatic experience for me, you don't have the right to judge me as a person on the basis of a few words about it. I think I'm stronger than most people for even surviving it, there was a lot more to the abuse than I said there. But if you think people are weak for having fears and mental problems, I can assure you you'll grow out of that view as you age and get some experience in life.

>>718764
Be honest, because this is something of the topic at conflict.

There was a part of you that wanted it to happen, wasnt there?

>>718746
right, which is why i reserve judgement or moral damnation of pedophiles. The truth is that, pedophiles like addicts need rehabilitation which teaches them to live life for more than just one thing. Personally, I do think my smack addiction is less damaging to other people than a pedophiles is.

>>718764
yes i do, no you're not, you are the infantile one

>>718755
This is simply not true, it is a cop-out. The truth is that you are always yourself, no matter how damning your behavior might be at times. Learn about ''cognitive dissonance'' some time. it is the pathology par excellance these days. You have it in spades.

>>718704
>traumatic terrible expirience, causing fear of men even until today
>sex with 16

oh i guess it must have been oh so horrible
so you were so afraid, than lusted for the cock and now are afraid again?

fucking bitches and whores

>>718771
spoken like a guy who's never left the basement, who's never been challanged or tested. What have you done in your life? What have you overcome to make that statement?

Save your bullshit for when you've done something.

>>718765
No, no and no. I was simply the object of his anger, violence and perversions. Mentally speaking, it damaged me greatly, physically speaking, it mostly hurt. The things that didn't exactly hurt felt bad because of what was coming or had just happened.

>>718788
Generally speaking I would be willing to be that i've done more , seen more and felt more than you have. This is just because I have done more than most people I know, even most people who have lived much longer than I have. Cognitive dissonance is a pretty basic concept, and once you stop trying to push your less desirable traits into the background, and refusing to take responsibility for all that you are, only then will you begin to truly live.

>>718788
Generally speaking I would be willing to say that i've done more , seen more and felt more than you have. This is just because I have done more than most people I know, even most people who have lived much longer than I have. Cognitive dissonance is a pretty basic concept, and once you stop trying to push your less desirable traits into the background, and refusing to take responsibility for all that you are, only then will you begin to truly live.

>>718789
you realize that 16 is the age of consent in most states. Maybe you're just a dumb weak bitch who should stop complaining and fix shit yourself.

>>718809
what the fuck is your problem, weeaboo pedo?

she said she did not consent.

>>718807
Doubt it. I've banged 13 year olds. I've fought in wars. Been to most countries on the planet. Got married, had children. Met Mr.T once. I saw whats on the bottom of the ocean.

What have you done, sit around on street corners smacked out of your mind? Dont let that shit fool you, you havent done anything.

>>718809
That was my first consensual experience. I would appreciate it if you actually read my post instead of jumping to conclusions that have nothing to do with it.

Anyway, most of these comments are so stupid I won't even be responding to them (did you know, for instance, that sex can also be done with other people than males around the age 20, for instance?), but if anyone has any intelligent or sincere questions, I'll be answering.

and this thread was so great...

>>718833
It never was, in my opinion, but that other thread about Lolita a couple of weeks ago on the other hand...

>>718826
I never banged a 13 year old because even when I was 12 I was fucking 18 year olds. sorry if that proves your point a bit, but besides. I don't care if you were in the brainwashing fucking army, that is weak pussy shit. People who voluntarily join the military have to be the most simpleminded jerkoffs on the planet. And yes, i've been to countries and actually experienced them as a human being, and not some disgusting grunt. I've never had kids because why would I want to? I've never gotten married because marriage is another huge waste of time that you listed. Also, smack is great, don't knock it til you tried it buddy. It's a lot safer and saner than statutory rape.

>>718829
why would you let prevailing christian opinions (recently evolved ones, it used to be commonplace for women to start bearing children at 14-15 years old) haunt you for years and years? you have literally no biological reason to be so broken up about a sexual encounter, even if he menaced you physically.

your illness is purely a self inflicted one, caused by self destructive fixation on an unpleasant but largely unremarkable encounter.

>>718841
>hurr everything you do is not important, everything i do is great

i am sure you have done more than all of the people you know with that mindset
but it is nice to know that every board has these dumbshit eliteist oppinion=facts faggots, not just /v/

I don't care if you were in the brainwashing fucking army

>i wasnt in the army.

>I've never had kids because why would I want to?

Because it's difficult, and means you have to grow up, and take responsibility not just for yourself, but for someone else. So yeah, why would you want to do that? Just go toke up.

>I've never gotten married because marriage is another huge waste of time that you listed

It couldnt possibly be because you're afraid of testing yourself, of being in the eyes of someone else, of making mistakes, and having to face them. Go find a dark corner, and hug yourself, and snort some H bra. it'll make everything better.

>>718850
you know what, you are sensible but it isn't as simple as that in a victims mind. I was a victim of sexual abuse as a really young kid and have for the most part recognized that it is something which I must not berate myself for, but it does engender a feeling of disillusionment even today.

>>718855
they are just better spoken here. sometimes.

>I've never had kids because why would I want to?
i dig you on this one man. i was looking up statistics on various birth defects and syndromes the other day: 1 in 500 kids are autistic these days. It's horribly irresponsible to take a chance like that when there are hundreds of thousands of children who need a home already.

>>718850
It doesnt haunt me. I just brought it up because it is somewhat on topic. Actually i kinda liked it.

OK, now people in here clearly have dove head first into make-believe-land

>>718874

>>718868
No, these institutions offer nothing but limitations, and they do not make you ''grow up'' that is just a popular fantasy. Watch shows like ''sixteen and pregnant'' for instance, or really just take a look around. Nothing will make you ''grow up'' growing is not an acheivement, it is a life long process. I don't care if you were in the army, marines or what the fuck ever I still think the military is a brainwashing institution that chews people up and spit them out. I had friends die in Iraq because they wanted to go to college. It's a fucking shame, and the whole time they knew what was up and felt imprisoned, which in fact they were. All the veterans that I have met have come back with some serious fucking issues and usually end up strung out worse than I am. You are the perfect example, because of your aberrant behavior.

>>718850
My family was never Christian, and it wasn't just a single encounter, but longer time abuse (and as mentioned before, with this side as only one part of it, even if a large one), probably one of the main reasons it still bothers me today. The haunting is mainly subconscious today, so it's sort of hard to get rid of by just deciding otherwise, but time and determination heal all wounds.

I agree that the Christian idea of sexuality sucks, but sex isn't quite the same when it isn't consensual, not to mention when you aren't ready for it. I have friends who had their first time as 14-year-olds with their loving boyfriends (of the same age), enjoyed it, and that's great. I just wasn't quite as lucky. Shit happens and sometimes it bothers you, too.

>>718874
The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) says that 3 out of every 100 babies born in the United States have some kind of major birth defect.
i am far far too terrified of giving someone a life filled with hardship, self hatred and bitterness to take that sort of gamble. Plus, caring for an adult invalid destroys whatever life you might have wanted to pursue yourself.

unfortunately idocracy's premise seems all but inevitable at this point (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy))

>>718888
You hate the idea of raising kids or marrying soley because it implies some amount of responsibility.

I am not willing to even think about anything you say about "growing up".

>>718892
all of western morality is based on christian values.

>>718892
consensual is an odd concept. What if you do something because you want to do it, and later, you decide that you didnt want to?

A long time ago there was a thing at my campus where women were encouraged to go to the police if they went home and fucked a guy while they were drunk, but woke up and thought better of it?

I've been plenty hammered in my time, but i never fucked anyone i didnt want to.

So where's the distinction? Between what you want, and what perhaps, you should of done?

Once again, goes back to one of the main issues of the book.

Are we all not thinking beings? does someone body have to hold our hands and make sure we dont make really dumb decisions? The answers isnt as simple as you'd think. Is an adult an adult? Is a child a child?

>>718900
all of christian values are based upon older moralic values

>>718905
does this matter in any practical way? does it make them less absurd and arbitrarily limiting?

>>718905
You obviously never been to appalachia.

>>718915
i have, but i have no idea what point you are making with such a statement.
there are crazily ignorant people there, just like everywhere else.

>>718899
I take responsibility for myself first. Doing so for another's life to me is too much responsibility, and I think it is more mature to admit that than to think that by having kids I will somehow ''grow up".

>>718919
The act of having a child has nothing to do with maturity. The act of being a parent, however, requires it.

>>718924
Good parenting might require it, but not all parents have it. Mine for instance, and many others were not ready and parented but did not really mature and the result wasn't that great. But i'm not saying it's terrible, I just don't want to make the same mistakes.

>>718936
So something is forcing you too? someone held a gun to your head and said "Hey snort herion and be a terrible parent"

Yeah, you have free will though dont you? Hmmm?

or you could just admit that sometimes, a person is weak. Sometimes they dont think. Sometimes, a lot of times, they fuck shit up. And you could move on.

>>718900
True, but I'm not from the US and compared to how people look at sex there, my country is a lot more liberal, no abstinence class whatsoever. Of course, compared to the ideal, we still have a long way to go, especially when it appears conservative values have been gaining popularity recently.

>>718904
>consensual is an odd concept. What if you do something because you want to do it, and later, you decide that you didnt want to?
Personally, I say that's a mistake, not nonconsensual. Regret doesn't make it rape, and I detest the women who decide the nature of things after the incident. I think it sort of degrades real victims when people go around telling someone committed crime when they didn't. Sadly, far too many women (and men, why not? I bet many judges who give sentences to innocent men are males themselves) take this lightly.

But I agree it's a complicated matter, though of course, there are a lot of clear cases as well. Lolita brilliantly depicts one case that, as this thread illustrates, can be debated, and that is a part of its richness.

so if we're always thinking, always ready, always conscious, why do we do so much against our own self interests?

So maybe you want to read the book again, and pay attention this time.

i wants to read this so much but i can't cause i'm still reading the book so boo. >:

>>718958
read the thread i mean.

>>718958
don't worry, the thread is not about the book

but we have a bitchy female who is on a mission to prove how poor she is, a desilusional manchild who is so mature and responsible and despises the army, some other boons and a lot of trolls

you see, we are rich on content

>>718976
Yeah, i kinda lol'd at the whole "Uh....the army SUCKS! much smarter to just sit around my trailer and shoot up smack man!"

>>718976
and dont forget the asshole living in his fairy-tale-macho-dream-land

>>718989
isnt that pretty much all of 4chan?

bumb

yo gus ever read twilite? Its about vampres, pretty better than this book.

>>719124
lol so what are vampres?
or do you mean vamPIRES?
lol epic fail xD

>>719134
no you cant make big letters in a wurd with the little owns, dosnt work. vapres are the things from like the brad pit movie. just go to the fukin store it's right at the front. read it.

>>719147
lol no i meant that u spell it with an i
i know what they are i love them two :3
whats ur name we can be friends

>>719124
0/10. You didn't even try.

>>718895
Doesn't it though?