/lit/ - Literature

Remove grades, word counts and deadlines.

>>7139783
Great idea, Anon

Pump more black kids into it regardless of academic ability.

I'm american btw

>>7139616
Destroy capitalism.

no more homework!

Eliminate all those conspiring against me and my genius: females, leftists, members of the negroid and mongoloid races of both sexes, Papists, Jews and Muhammadans.

>>7139616
It would go something like this

>>7139616
What's there to fix OP?

>>7139616
Destroy all philosophical, literature, and sociology courses

remove the humanities, make them for practical things

>>7139894
This it's literally impossible to get into college as a conservative, straight ,white male so I didn't even try

Tution would vary per major and be based on some metric like the rate of graduates having major relevant employment. Scholarships for people who should be going to college. Somehow fix the shit that is general education requirements.

>>7140004
>getting baited by Poe's law

>>7139870
this tbh

>government creates a system of high-quality universities, hires away top professors, gives generous research funding
>admissions 100% based on a standardized test. no grades, extracurriculars, essays, etc.
>top 10% (or maybe 15%) top scorers are admitted free of charge
>private system can exist and do whatever it wants, but there is no financial aid for students not accepted into the government universities

>>7140023
>Implying I wasn't just pretending to be retarded.
Bad news u've been pranked ;)

>>7140037
D: AYY LMAO XD WHEW LAD

Can only speak for British universities, but:

>Abolish/remove funding for all but the top third, reducing the proportion of school leavers going to uni to about 15%
>Move all music/art/drama to colleges or conservatoires (the point isn't that they are inferior to other degrees, but simply that they don't belong in universities) as well as promoting apprenticeships and other vocational studies
>Increase tuition fees for most degrees not based on employability, but quality of degree (ie you shouldn't penalise people wanting to do, for example, classics, even though it has virtually zero real world relevance)
The point of all this is to discourage the view that you have in the majority of middle class Britain that one ought to go to university, even if it's not really for you (and especially if the taxpayer is funding your degree)
>Ban any universities from accepting applicants with lower than BBB at A Level
And the big one:
>Reinstate the tripartite system, where ~90% of grammar school students go to university; grammars to have two entry points at (around) 11 and 16; the vast majority of university students (from state schools) will be grammar students

>>7140063
I'm American but I read that as
>Only Private School kids
>Children of the rich
>Middle class and poor children who spent their youth doing busy work to make grades.

I'll wreck your shit if my analysis was correct, but tell me if I misunderstood otherwise, I'm ignorant of the British schooling system.

Make it free but increase the requirements to get in. 90%+ average in highschool should be the minimum tbh.

>>7140029
pls be joke

>>7140112
Completely wrong, I'm talking only about state schools.
Reinstating the tripartite system means selective schools across the country (at the moment they exist in pockets, so those areas naturally become very middle class), which means high social mobility. Affluence would have nothing to do with your chance to go to uni (unless you postulate that there is a correlation between affluence and intelligence).

>>7140133
100% serious. i think that would easily be the best way to improve the system of higher education. whats wrong with it?

>>7140138

I do postulate that affluence and intelligence do correlate. The affluent spawning intelligent offspring? Not so much. It's also like the affluent have no taste anymore.

Also you want 15% of Highschool graduates to go to college.
Will you have enough/too many if you abolish all but the top third?
Do you want to make useful degrees expensive, or the useless degrees expensive?

What is a BBB at A level like to an American highschool A,B,C,D,F level?

Also, I believe, You would need to rework Grammar schools to something that doesn't resemble the old cliche' of some bourgeoisie establishment that caters to "well established".

Also, suppourt the establishment of military schools alongside grammar schools. Something more action oriented, rather than education.

>>7140181
It improves it for just those you're allowing in, while tossing the rest to corporate/religious education.
OP is asking about fixes not maintenance of the status quo

>>7140029
>>7140181
Different guy but,
>Government creates
Nigga plz

>Admission based on a standardized test/
So basically let the kids fuck around all through high school with B,n' C's, and then have them study hardcore for ONE test, and admission them in. Thats fucking retarded and bound to fail.

>Top 10% get in free
Same logic as above, you could be admitting students who have no need for financial coddling.

>Private system can do what it wants
You're going to need major restrictions, otherwise they'll go fucking nuts.


You mention nothing about Scholarships, Grants, etc.

>>7140217
it improves thing for the majority of people who aren't especially inclined toward academic studies, and would allow them to be able to go right to finding a job without having to spend tons of money on college, because with only 10% of people in university employers would no longer be able to require a degree of 50% of the population.

it would also be massively more meritocratic than currently. you would probably have a greater percentage of working class people among the top 10-15% of scorers than currently attend the most prestigious US universities.

>>7140221
>You mention nothing about Scholarships, Grants, etc.

Because there won't be any. Private institutions would have to keep their tuition reasonable. Above all employers would have to train people themselves rather than forcing people to go into debt to have universities do the work for them, plus employers would no longer be able to viable demand a college degree for jobs that don't really need one, further promoting efficiency and decreasing the risk faced by regular people who need to go into debt to get a degree they shouldn't even need.

>>7140239
>Tuition reasonable
You fool, you know not the horror's you will unleash.

Also I don't think you understand the incompetency and greed on the part of corporations. They will export as much as possible, or they'll lobby for more Foreign workers.

>>7140200
I agree that affluence and intelligence correlate, but if that results in lower, but natural, social mobility, so what?

This is just off the top of my head, but 15% would correspond to roughly the top third.

I don't want the tuition fees to be based on how useful the degree is (in an employment-oriented sense at least), but they would try to incentivise good tier degrees over pleb tier ones.

I don't know what American grades are like, but getting BBB (ie Bs in 3 A Levels) is pretty easy, a B, roughly speaking is 70%. I got A*A*A with relatively little work.

Grammar schools definitely didn't use to have any sort of posh stigma attached to them, it was only when they were culled in the 60s and 70s that that started as they were left in pockets, so those areas that kept their grammar schools became middle class. Grammars used to be full of working class kids, that was their original purpose. There was also much higher social mobility in Britain in the 60s thanks to grammar schools.

I wouldn't be particularly keen on military schools, but I would definitely support compulsory CCF (combined cadet force, run by some schools, where you basically do military training as an extra curricular activity).

Make university either free or similar to how it works in Australia (you get taxed some amount of your earnings after you graduate provided you make over a certain amount until you pay off your tuition). Make entrance requirements stricter to compensate if necessary. I imagine that well educated people with liberal arts degrees will be able to put out more good quality works when they don't have to worry about working all day to pay off tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars student loans on minimum wage. Universal health care would also help with this, but not related to college. I say this as a STEMfag btw.

Remove tests and grades. Somehow design it such that a degree is useless to employers. Perhaps that would mean getting rid of degrees altogether. Place colleges in idyllic settings far from human civilization, preferably in the mountains. Don't pay students or professors but provide food and shelter for them. Then it will finally attract people who want to learn. Academics (students and professors alike) should live serene monk-like existences.

Only take people from rich patrician families, exclude all plebs from any activity with patricians whatsoever

>>7140260
>They will export as much as possible, or they'll lobby for more Foreign workers.

that's where closed borders come in to play comrade

Stop measuring the quality of a school by graduation rates, so the decline in quality of education is slowed.

Encourage professional degree programs as a alternative to traditional education.

Create a apprentice program to supplement text based knowledge.

Allow students to work for less than minimum wage if the experience benefits them professionally.

Teach finance at least as regards college loans in high school so students can make informed decisions about borrowing.

>>7140282
can't tell if joking but sounds based tbh

>>7140339
>students can make informed decisions about borrowing
That's not going to make me money, I need all of the kids with all of the debt possible so I can suck them dry

>>7140282

Would attend

>>7140232
It's a bandage and rewards those that test well.

All these posts with tuition scholarships and grants. Pfffb.
End the madness and make work, play and education all one.

>>7140378
>End the madness and make work, play and education all one.

You mean "turn universities into camps where you only learn to hate capitalism and where Marx is the only curriculum"

>>7139616
Eliminate all but the top 100 universities and top 15 liberal arts colleges (in America) and redirect the leftover federal funding to them, with teaching funding at the LACs in addition to the usual research grants. Make undergraduate tuition and funding resemble the current state of graduate funding, where good students can get jobs that cover all costs and others have to get by with a little less but still don't go into debt unless they really fuck up. Very few people who shouldn't be at university in the first place will go, and the high school and community college systems will do to train them for their jobs without bloating the academic establishment and diluting the worth of people who are actually going to do useful things with a university education. The extra funding will allow a more robust research program with less bullshit. Limit all athletic programs to the standards held by the Ivy League and NESCAC conferences to prune the cancerous and anti-intellectual college sports business. Strictly allow only full funded arts degrees.

Everybody else is saying it but I'll say it too: eliminate grades and make letters of recommendation and standardized tests the main application materials for jobs and graduate schools.

>>7140359

The government doesn't make money off student loans. They sell below the market rate and do not adjust the price based on individual risk. It costs them money to lend at their rate because people don't always pay them back.

If you borrow from anyone other than the government you can wipe out the debt by declaring bankruptcy. The risk was already written into your price, so don't worry about it if the debt is indeed too burdensome.

>>7140029
this is what china does

>>7140461

and they export their best students to america

>>7139616
Vocational apprentice-master system

DO NOT FUCKING TAKE ATTENDANCE GOD DAMN

Standardized vocational education to route the bullshit degrees through a less expensive system.

>>7140397
Naw.

I mean open "universities" up to the world. Put them in people's homes, the workplace, out on road trips.

>>7140515
How?

>>7140520

At gunpoint.

>>7140004
>literally impossible
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

>>7140520
>>7140529
By ending capitalism.

I'm not saying it would be easy

>>7140584
>implying you can end capitalism
>implying capitalism doesn't consume all
KEK

>>7140584

right. at gunpoint.

>>7140584
But HOW? Are you just fucking around? You can't just snap your fingers and "end" capitalism.

>>7140604
Obama snapped his fingers and gave poor people obama phones.

>>7140626
Yeah but that's not the destruction of an entire economic institution, of an entire way of life which has spread around the globe and holds the largest empire ever conceived (i.e. the Human empire) in its grasp.

>>7140604
There are two ways.

1) Reformism, slowly changing the government by legislating towards communism. This is what most leftists, being cowards or pacifists, have resigned themselves to.

2) Revolution. Not necessarily a violent one, but the capacity for violence which it would create, and perhaps eventually devolve into, has scared almost everybody away from the prospect.

>>7140590
And here is the voice of the enemy of all humankind. "You can't resist. Don't even try. KEK"
Listen to him, and we are doomed. Doomed to a crib death as we suffocate here.

>>7140604
It can't happen overnight of course. We just have to take the muzzles off and pass the word around. I am not "fucking around". Some are awake to the problems, and some have the answers straighter in their heads than I. I'm not the only one who feels this way certainly.

>>7140602
It doesn't have to be bloody.

Make them elite institutions again, instead of institutions that ensure intellectual elites can never exist again

>>7140676
Also ban clubs and bars on campus I mean fucking really are we here to drink from the font of pure knowledge or wallow in pleasure of the flesh smh fam tbbqh

>>7140676
>>7140687
>THE PAST! THE PAST IS ALWAYS BEST! LET US RETURN. GO BACK BAAAACK!

And back to childhood and back to momma's lap and back to the womb.

>>7140663
>it doesn't have to be bloody.
How many successful, truly nonviolent revolutions have there been? Gandhi liberated a country from a colonial power in a moment of great weakness; if we broaden the definition of 'revolution', MLK kinda-sorta led some marches that got a law passed (and the US is a lot more progressive now, right?).

Is it possible that the peoples of the world could rise up and put an end to capital without the use of violent force? Definitely. But is this ever going to happen?

I'm not exactly a pessimist about the world's future. But to say that we can end the most engrossing and powerful (not to mention generally invisible) economic institution that has ever existed without the use of force is like saying we can get to the moon if only we all stood on each other's shoulders. Good luck.

>>7140660
>>7140663

The revolution already happened once. It was bloody and it ended in failure.

1)Central planning does not allocate resources as efficiently as individual actors. In a state of affairs where there is geopolitical competition for power, economic growth matters.

2) Classical liberal societies cultivate selfish individualistic tendencies toward virtuous activities which benefit others (For example, you can only make a contract where someone else benefits from the contract.)

3) You can't overcome the human desire to expand his endowment. In communist society, people would violate the communist principles and collect wealth for themselves. This is especially counterproductive when the people in power turn themselves into oligarchs while leaving everyone else poor.

>>7140663
>Doomed to a crib death as we suffocate here.
Death is the ultimate liberator though, capitalism kills, that's why it works

>>7140717
first class response you modern day eunuch

>>7140719
Difficult, unprecedented, oh I know. Sounds like fun!

>>7140724
The "revolution" is still in progress. As a clock's minute hand. it hasn't made a full rotation.

>>7140725
Back foul demon.

>>7140727
The conservative's answer to everything is to go back. Being raised one, I cling to, adore, history, but this is such a foolish idealism.
I do agree we should get back to what matters and take care of the earth and go back to growing food. I make common enemy with some of their's

>>7140768
>The "revolution" is still in progress. As a clock's minute hand. it hasn't made a full rotation.

Sure I agree that the end of history could be some Star Trekesque socialist utopia, but the day when such a thing becomes possible is far into the future. Time matters when discussing politics.

>>7140768
Why am I demon? Death is a liberator, it liberates you from the burden of existence

>>7140719
>>7140719
yea unfortunately, that way of thinking is not widely present in the majority.
Those in power - the successful capitalist - partly affects how the people think. people care more about their interests of TV and the circus of potential presidents - which is now no less different from a talent show.

As long as most people get to eat and shit, they're content. Content slaves did exist.

I'm not so educated but im sure most revolutions are backed by wealthy/powerful people seeking gains from it - taking away a rivals power or what not. They just rouse the peoples dissatisfaction, when they do have some (from failing in society or being envious), and lure them to achieve things that benefit themselves the most.

Gandhis revolution just placed the power of the british overlords back into the religious families. Gandhi himself was from a previously prestigious family and only gained support due to their influence. A promotioner of sorts

>>7140724
>The revolution already happened once.
A fair point; but this is not to say that it was initially misguided, only that the thing we have to do is potentially as ugly. The revolution succeeded in tearing down its original government, but failed in replacing it. If there were something viable to fill its void, would it have been different? I don't know. I only think that it will be impossible to effect any real and lasting change without resorting to that sort of barbarism, which puts us all in a very, very awkward position.

>1)
I agree; but not all forms of communism require central planning. This is not to say that I agree with them, merely to indicate that ending capitalism does not imply that communism (or one of its specific variations) follows.

>2)
I disagree. Classical liberal societies DO cultivate selfish individualistic tendencies, but the buck stops there. Judeo-Christian values do reward virtuous selflessness, but only by inculcating a vigorous sense of ego and self which becomes self-defeating. And even if it were true that these societies cultivated such ethics, the better capitalist is always the one who violates such principles.

>3)
I agree. But first, see above, ending capitalism does not imply the erection of a communist state. Second, communism does not, as such, really have anything to do with the equal distribution of resources: the variations which Lenin and later Stalin worked with did, of course, attempt this: but as articulated by Marx, socialism/communism are really just about giving workers control over their conditions and ending the institution of ownership. No doubt there will be richer workers and poorer, but workers all the same, and by curbing the functions of institutions (rather than merely taking from one and giving to another, Robin Hood style) I think it would be possible to keep the gap fairly close.

>>7140785
Well yes, but I think time is of the essence at this point. We're laying around too much imo.

>>7140789
It is the absolute WRONG outlook on life.
Experience in life is all, "burden" I understand, but make it an obstacle to avert. And this world isn't a waiting room for a next life, whatever you believe in.

>>7139870
just popping in to ask if any society at any point in history has ever, fully conscious of all ramifications, developed and applied a new system of economics?

>>7140814
>And this world isn't a waiting room for a next life
That's not what I'm asserting, what I'm asserting is that existence is inherently suffering, and that freedom from feeling and thinking that comes from death is the end of suffering, thus is a positive thing

>>7140663
>It can't happen overnight of course. We just have to take the muzzles off and pass the word around. I am not "fucking around". Some are awake to the problems, and some have the answers straighter in their heads than I. I'm not the only one who feels this way certainly.

fuck off whats with these useless weasel words that say absolutely fuck all? Why don't you stop talking like a politician,butterfly, and answer the fucking questions?

jesus

>>7140815
Soviet Union

>>7140663
This is hopelessly vague bro. I'm all for an end to capitalism, but practice must proceed theory. What have you done for the revolution today? We need to work towards achieving autonomy from the state here and now, and not by merely taking the muzzles off (whatever that means), or by participating in ineffective protests and debates. I'm talking real quality of life improvements, free food, free shelter, free information. Everything else is hollow theorizing.

tl;dr - I think you're fucking around.

>>7140815
impossible. economy was created to allow the person that created huts to be able to eat food from the person that hunts.
Humans need to benefit from each others service especially nowadays with millions of people. it just so happens that at the current lvl some people benefit more. probably the only way is for the next stage of evolution of greater thinking minds that can solve this.

probably the way we can think of now leans towards a form of communism. Maybe rations instead of money. everyone gets the same thing. people being able to lead themselfves or accept a leader which can not be better off e.g. he should be a bloke down the road. But thats a dystopia. something out of Brave new road. but will we still be humans?

>>7140790
We have one thing previous generations didn't, and I know the frailty of it, but we have instant communication. This could aid us.

>>7140822
I just threw the waiting room part in as an aside. I know you didn't indicate you were Christian. Still disagree that "life is suffering"

>>7140828
I'll answer the question again.
It will take a lot of effort, organization and time to hammer out a new way of doing things. If we choose to sit around with the same old system, we die.
Last century for us.
>jesus
Fitting.

>>7140837
>Rubles
No.

>>7140850
yea I suppose the internet couldve been used for that if the Internet was truly free - no monitoring, no charges.
the problem we have is the sites that influences everyone is from capitalist companies for gains.
maybe if everyone used a service created that is not for beneficial gains and is allowed to discuss freely together and communicate freely. But alas we are using a capitalist service (Internet providers, Google blah blah) and we can only be influenced eventually. We are but splashing like magikarps in their pond.
On that note thinking free and no monitoring has lead to various problems im sure you all know about - the government advertise them enough in their news to lead us away from that freedom

>>7140837
One more aspect of this.

Ever notice how the Soviets resembled Czarist Russia? Russian Orthodox Russia?

A US version would necessarily look more like the US, secularist/protestant, democratic etc., than the Russia version.

>>7140838
The future is hopelessly vague. I leave it to your imaginations.
Good post. Lets establish a country with in a country (or series of countries) to these ends. Extra-legal communities that serve the people better. Our people should be willing to swell their prisons till bursting (Unless they're those private prisons. Burn those to the ground I say)

I am not fucking around.

>>7140885
and the problems can only make me afraid of humans. maybe we arent meant to be: our existence is bad by nature.

>>7140850
But you still haven't said anything of substance, or answered the question once, let alone "again." Everything takes time, effort, and organization. Effort where? Organization how? When the old system falls what do you replace it with etc.

I like you revolutionary types, and I admire your optimism, but get your head out of the clouds and DO something for fuck's sake.

we're like trying to make a perfect house for our specie out of broken glass. its gonne be full of cracks, even if the form takes shape. Maybe life is just a bad coincidence in the universe and we are sinners just being alive. Nothing good for the entire picture is coming from us. we are just forcing the world to accept us through our progress.

>>7140900
>effort, and organization. Effort where?
Nice try FBI

Just kidding. Oh anon, what have we been saying all these years? You start with the Greeks

>>7140687
If you don't like drinking you don't have to, you're one of those people who ruin things for everybody just because it bothers you

>>7140768
Man you are fucking unbearable. Do you disagree that universities exist to be places for intellectual elite and that too many people attend them, or are you going to flap your gums about my conservative psychology? Cut the dialectics you Marxist sissy retard

>>7140920
I love to drink. I just think that an institution that is supposed to be a seat of higher learning has no business selling liquor just as I don't think pubs ought to start selling lined paper and textbooks.

Get to fuck

>>7140943
I agree sir. uni was creates for the promotion of higher knowledge. its a shame thag is has become a business to compete with other unis by advertising pubs or what nots

>>7140932
I like the idea of going to a university, sounds cozy. I just don't think there should be debts, lesser paying work for those who didn't attend or an end of education at a graduation.

I'm an anarchist "scum" and everything I advocate is in the interest of that end. Higher education for ALL, etc.

>>7140943
You've never been to Oxford, MIT, Harvard or any similar university. The bars and pubs around there are where people go to chill and talk about academic and professional topics. They aren't fucking nightclubs. Hell, if you took a professor out for coffee or a beer at my university at one of the on-campus establishments, the university would pick up the tab.

Maybe people at your dumbass state school don't know how to make the most of things, but fortunately getting rid of that place will be first on the list if we ever actually "fix college."

:')

>>7140807
>A fair point; but this is not to say that it was initially misguided, only that the thing we have to do is potentially as ugly...

We have not only traditions of private property which have undergone only slow change since the beginning of mankind, but it seems that the instinct toward private ownership is as powerful and thoroughgoing as instincts can be. One cannot tomorrow simply tell us to not acquire property without levying any sort of punishment. If it is to be done overnight then one can only imagine that it is done trough the direct threat of violence by some revolutionary party.

>I agree; but not all forms of communism require central planning...
Like what?

>I disagree. Classical liberal societies DO cultivate selfish individualistic tendencies, but the buck stops there...
Say you are starving and you need a job. Say I offer you work for $5 a day. I offer the job because I need labor and you take the job because you are better off with the job when compared to unemployment. We are both made better off by this arrangement. All contacts work like this, making both parties better off.

Now the world in which a contract exists isn't dyadic, so in the real world we have to consider market failures such as negative externalities and monopoly situations, but it is well within the power of the state in a classical liberal system to have a system of tort and regulation which prevents any sort of situation where the contract between two parties harms a third party in a way that reduces aggregate utility.

The result is a society where force and fraud, and a slew of other activities that if they were normal would result in negative sum games, are shut out as ways of earning money by regulation, so everyone must earn money by engaging in positive sum transactions where everyone is made better off.

So the liberal principles result not just in selfish behavior, but in the type of selfish behavior which provides others with more than they would have if you never did contact.

>I agree. But first, see above, ending capitalism does not imply the erection of a communist state...

Collective ownership is still ownership. The end of any system of ownership is a wealth accumulation in the hands of the guys who are smart and resourceful.

>>7139616
Kick out all the retarded "communists" and make it about education again while putting the burden of job training on the actual businesses.

I wanted to talk about college, not communism

>>7141052

If we removed the communist from the colleges, they would be improved, as I would not be forced to give economics lessons to those who think that government mandates solve problems.

>>7141052
There's no such thing as ethical consumption under capitalism.

>>7141070
>Free markets fix everything.

>>7140282
Best post ITT

>derailing education with political ideology
witness the ever madder howling of "conservative" dogs who baring their fangs more and more obviously roam through back alleys of western government. They seem opposites of peacefully industrious "liberals" and ideologists of redistribution and even more so of doltish philosophasters and brotherhood enthusiasts who call themselves socialists and want a “free society” and even of conspiratorial anti-Semitic screamers but in fact they are at one with the lot in their thorough and instinctive hostility to every other form of society except that of autonomous herd (even to the point of repudiating the very concepts of “master” and “servant” ni dieu ni maître runs a socialist formula). They are at one in their tough resistance to every special claim, every special right and privilege (which means in the last analysis every right: for once all are equal nobody needs “rights” any more). They are at one in their mistrust of punitive justice (as if it were a violation of those who are weaker, a wrong against the necessary consequence of all previous society). But they are also at one in the religion of pity in feeling with all who feel, live, and suffer (down to the animal up to “God”, excess of a “pity with God” belongs in a democratic age). They are at one, the lot of them, in the cry and impatience of pity in their deadly hatred of suffering generally, in their almost feminine inability to remain spectators, to let someone suffer. They are at one in their involuntary plunge into gloom and unmanly tenderness under whose spell the west seems threatened by a new Buddhism. They are at one in their faith in the morality of shared pity, as if that were morality in itself, being the height, the attained height of man, the sole hope of the future, the consolation of present man, the great absolution from all former guilt. They are at one, the lot of them, in their faith in the community as the savior, in short, in the herd, in “themselves”.