/lit/ - Literature

>>7107615
I bet if you read that line without knowing it was Wallace ud cringe m8. The only reason u dont is cause its Wallace, nothin more nothin less.

>>7107615
In a novel, every sentence after the first is earned. DFW earned the right to that sentence through already establishing Mario as a not-so-intelligent, intensely loving character.

And let's be real. That sentence is true as fuck.

>>7107951
oh man poor Mario, he's such a bro

>>7107615

That's the power of New Sincerety

>>7107615
It did make me cringe.

Thanks to /lit/ for posting about this book all the time. Not sure I would have picked it up if I didn't browse here and I really loved it.

>>7109872
>my identity is only memes

because mario is retarded? you really needed someone else to answer that?

>>7109882
>IJ is a meme
>anyone who enjoys it isn't as cool or original as myself

>>7109886

There are plenty of books/movies/whathaveyou with retarded or dumb characters who are pure and loving.

My point is I genuinely belived and felt what Mario did in that sentence without it coming off as sappy or forced. You know how many people think "ohh les write a retarded with a soft heart".

>>7109925
My favorite Mario scene is when he's filming everyone. I think it's LaMont Chu who says "Jesus, Mario, talking to you is like talking to a rock sometimes," and Mario responds with, "this is going very well!"

It's why its called New Sincerity, its not done ironically

>>7107615
He keeps it simple and relates Hal's feeling to a common thing the reader has probably felt himself. If he'd gone on a tangent about all the different ways Hal loves Mario, it would be much more likely to come off as cheesy, but this is a straightforward way of making the reader identify with Hal.

>>7109976
But and then why does he like go on a tangent with other things?

>>7109961
youre confusing ns with post irony

>>7107615

He's a very simple character, so a complex and eloquent description of his personal emotions might not have fit him. Mario thinks simple, Mario feels simple. What Wallace used was totally in sync with the character. Sometimes the context around a sentence alone makes it good, even if the sentence by itself somewhere else would be terrible.

>>7109983
Because he thinks it works better with those things. The however many pages of Eschaton were fully enjoyable, but ten pages of Hal swooning over Mario would probably not be. Not saying Wallace never makes mistakes, but I think he got Mario pitch perfect.

>>7109882

>tfw want to read this book, but afraid that people at the bookstore will laugh at me for buying a meme

>>7110186
buy it you fucking faggot, as in the book

Mario is a dog btw.
think about it.

>>7111325
No, Mario is not a dog.

>>7111325
the thought process is clearly based on a dog.
Think Doug in Up. Love for its own sake, dumb innocnece.
It has to do with Orin treating him like shit and the final scene at Hal's house where his only memory is of Mario face-to-face with the Mom's dog.
DFW loved dogs more than people and Mario is clearly the most lovable character he ever wrote.
You didnt get it retard.

>>7111347
was meant for
>>7111331

My favorite part of the book is when Orin's dad catches him with a porno or something and he gets down on one knee and explains that he would prefer it if Orin didn't watch pornography because it might give him unrealistic expectations about sex, a beautiful expression of love between married people.

New Sincerity.

>>7111398
This scene is also built up for pages and pages as something lifechanging and powerful that happened to Orin that Hal can't remember. Then he remembers it and that's what it is.

The reason you buy this shit is that it's coming out of a longhaired dude wearing a bandanna who wrote an essay about being more earnest. So your defenses are doubly down because you've been primed to read his sentimental horseshit as literary bravery.

>>7111364
So Mario has the tendencies of a dog. That's fine. But Mario is not a dog, in the strictest sense of the word. In a book where people argue over something like Lyle is a literal wraith or not, it is important to note if you are speaking figuratively or literally. It's important to do that in general. Perhaps you should learn to do it.

>>7111419
Youre not giving him or us enough credit.
The bandana thing was him taking advantage of your own retardation, he knew you'd know him as "bandana guy", this was a man who knew how marketing worked. (Hence why he abandoned it in later years and constantly poked fun at it himself).
If you actually took the time to understand IJ or the TPK you'd see that part of his earnesty was also about admitting that he was an asshole in some ways. The realities of being an artist, that kinda thing.
i respecct the truth, and he certainly didn't sugarcoat anything. He just left us with hope for empathy and wider consciousness.
Dumb people are quik to dismiss for shallow superficial reasons like yours.

>>7111420
None of the characters are real retard. The ambiguity of whether or not Lyle is a wraith is kind of "the point".
Maybe you should learn something about the creative process retard. Its not all so literal.

>>7111441
What?

>>7111456
exactly.

>>7111449
Oh man I really rustled those jimmies didn't I?

because you let his memeness precede him and assume he is not just a bad writer

>>7111475
No i feel bad for you actually.
i just get frustrated when dumb people talk without thinking.

>>7111449
None of the characters are real, of course. Characters in a book. However, we have to remember what the characters are. Mario is a small retarded boy. Gately is a large man. Lyle is a wraith. We can look at the characteristics of these figures but we cannot say that they are something they are not. For example, we cannot say Mario is a dog because Mario is a small retarded boy. We may say Mario the small retarded boy has the characteristics of a dog.

>>7111483
the real DFW-meme is thinking that DFW is just a meme.

>>7111492
My posts are art and open to interpretation.
You just didnt get it.

>>7107615
is it weird that ive thought about this book more than any other book ive read but its not even close to being my favorite book?

>>7111514
Its basically 4chan the book.
On the outside its tasteless, funny and crude but touches on some serious aspects about the modern condition and is fueled by lonelinesss and a desire for authentic human connection

>>7111525
I'd say it's a bunch of literary pyrotechnics deployed in a desperate effort to distract the reader from its sappy, conservative core. Chicken Soup for the Grad Student.
>Ultra-pathetic retard-saint loves Hal so much it makes his heart beat hard.

>>7111550
>I'd say it's a bunch of literary pyrotechnics deployed in a desperate effort to distract the reader from its _____ core.

Distract is the wrong word, it leads into if anything. Aside from that, this is basically every book ever.
Conservative and sappy are two very decent and complimentary qualities i would think. They fact that you disagree says more about you as a degenerate i wuld think.

If Full House slipped to you in a subversive skein is your bag, have a ball, my man.

>>7111590
The kids like it. It worked.
Have fun being alone.

>>7111595
Why does my not thinking Infinite Jest is the shit mean I'm a lonely person? Getting cultish vibes here.

>>7111607
To knock it for being a subversive version of Full House is to ignore its main strenght which is mass appeal, something that you clearly despise and will never achieve.
thats all im sayin.

>>7111626
This is a total waste of my time, but whatever. Let me try to understand this. Are you saying you respect mass influence over artistic merit? Like you're some hard-eyed fallen-world artistic realist? Is that it?

>>7111671
artistic merit is subjective, mass influence has tangible results.
For all you know im the greatest artist in the world, but what does it matter if oher people dont know it too?

>>7107615
I fucking love this line so much. I occasionally repeat it to myself, it'll just pop into my head.

I used when I was asking my current girlfriend to be my girlfriend... yeah. I'm a thief. Whatever. I knew she'd love it, and she got all flushed and flustered when I said it. "Meaghan, you make my heart beat hard." (sorry to be cheesy) ...it's just an unusual/different way of saying of saying "my heart it racing," which is a cliche/overused sentiment. Putting a new spin on old ideas/phrases is always nice, especially in literature. And yeah, it does have something to do Mario being retarded. There's also the alliteration: the "m's" (Mario, much, makes) the "h's" (Hal, his, heart, hard). It's a series of words that sounds amazing to speak aloud. And it's subtle. He's not being overly lyrical/in-your-face with it. It's a basic idea and it's expressed perfectly.

It gives chills almost every time I come across it. I'm glad I'm not the only one who really likes the line.

>>7112551
Nice man, you emulated a fucking retard.

>>7112567
lel. I mean, it helped win over my foxy girl of three years. I ain't complaining.

>>7112551
>this fucking retard has a foxy girlfriend
>neurotypicals hate him
>find out how to 'tard your way to a qt3.14 gf today!

>>7112646
*bows*
Thank you, thank you.

>>7107615
I think I've seen this line in Tsukihime

>>7111306
>>7110186
it really isn't a meme. i don't know if it's just my areas demographic, but the majority of people you approach wont even know who DFW is. buy it, its great

>>7111441
>earnesty

I'm not gonna be a dick since you seem nice. It's earnestness

>>7112551
You could only get away with this in America

Any person with a trace of self-awareness would throw up while saying those words

>>7113554
mfw I'm Irish.

You presumptuous prick.

You probably haven't dated anyone. It's cool. You might (if you're lucky) eventually realize that love/dating/sex is all one massive rehashed cliche. One HUGE platitude. It's all the same... fucking everywhere. Every thought you've ever had or will ever have about your partner/prospective partner has probably occurred in someone else's mind about their lover. Same goes for emotion. It's all been said and done before. It's all a choreographed dance. If you don't realize and overcome that (I assume you're relatively intelligent -- not attempting to flatter), you won't ever be able to follow in step.

>>7114241
Jesus you're a fucking ass clown

>>7114241
Your mom is a 'massive rehashed cliche', especially after all that megamileage her vagoo has seen.

>>7114253
I know I'm being dickish. But I'd like to hear your opinion on the subject. My opinion isn't the most pleasant to hold. Have you dated? What does it feel like in relation to other relationships you've seen up close? I'm actually curious. I'll drop the douchebaggery. I'd like to have a change of heart.