/lit/ - Literature

But capitalism is the only thing there is.

Can you point to a country that has a different economic system?

>>7094081
There are lots of different shades of capitalism with different levels of social security, market intervention and government subsidisation.

>>7094112
Yes, but scales of interventionism into a market does not stop the market from being capitalistic.

Only a country and state that denies it's citizens the right to own private property(i.e denying them the right to own the means of production) can be legitimately called non-capitalistic.

>>7094081
I mean "capitalism is the only thing there is", not "capitalism is the only economic system currently in countries". Pomo is all about capitalism (market valuation, commoditization, etc) seeping into every corner and facet of modern life, and the discomfort and weirdness it brings.

Anything past Po-mo has to look at the possibilities of life differently.

>>7094123
Yes, we get it. You don't understand and you don't want to. Go away now.

>>7094146
Yes, but most people enjoy their endless consumption.

And the only people who don't, are usually professors at French universities who are payed by tax money from the people who do consume.

>>7094155
Shut the fuck up you tripfag muffdiver. Nothing I said was wrong.

>>7094160
http://i.4cdn.org/gif/1441825285047.webm

>>7094081
Even if capitalism was the only economic system in the world, the economic system isn't the only thing there is.

>>7094160
>Yes, but most people enjoy their endless consumption.

No way. Pop culture TELLS you most people enjoy endless consumption, and certainly people want to follow the crowd, but most people are deeply unhappy with endless consumption and this is the precise root of where po-mo comes from. Meaning, the disconnect between what they're told to enjoy and what they actually enjoy.

>>7094187
I guess we just have a difference of opinion then. I don't think commercials and media propaganda exists because people don't like it, I think it exists because people want it there.

If people didn't want it there, it would've all come crashing down long ago.

>>7094173
lol
I hate/love humanity. Such a pathetic species but it's damn funny.

>>7094155
>tripfag telling other people to go away

Oh the irony

>>7094200
An interesting point of view, but I think you're wrong. I think people merely tolerate it in order to get what they want, and then express their discomfort with it in po-mo art.

>>7094173
Fuck.

And I thought 4chan was full of retards.

>>7094200
Some people make commercials because they want everyone to behave the way they want (consummerism). This is why brands like coke always try to link their product with the idea of happniness and shit like this. Both of you are kind of right, but the anon you respond to has made a strong point.

>>7094212
I think it all exists as a diversion from the reality of our mortality. Capitalism and commodification is a very, very good tool at perturbing our minds into ignoring the fact that we are all going to die.

Pooling resources, caring about Kardashian's ass, caring about what some whore named Miley Cyrus does on the Movie Awards, are all things we do indeed hate that we care about, but we want them there, because they divert our attention away from the horror of facing the reality.

>>7094052
it can be

>>7094228
>>7094216
I like this discussion. What are you guys writing your novels about?

>I think it all exists as a diversion from the reality of our mortality.

Perhaps for insecure people looking for escapism, but I don't think everyone's looking for an escape (and certainly not specifically only from their mortality) and I don't think capitalism cares how we suffer for it.

Just in case you didn't know, people found ways to ignore their mortality before capitalism was ever invented. I don't think that's the source of po-mo (although certainly a common human motivation for doing things)

>>7094123
what about pre-capitalist indigenous people who have no recognizable form of private property?

>>7094240
>Just in case you didn't know, people found ways to ignore their mortality before capitalism was ever invented.

Yes of course, but I think capitalism is just a more efficient tool for the job.

Also:

>Perhaps for insecure people looking for escapism

I'm not sure you understand what I'm saying. Freud said that nobody really believes in their own death because they use massive amounts of cognitive energy to divert attention away from it. How do you think something like that would manifest in a physical world? Media and commodity propaganda.

>>7094253
Easy. They didn't have a concept of property at all. In other words, might made right.

>>7094269
...but they're not capitalist. and I wasn't using past tense for a reason - some still exist

>>7094210
newfig butters is auntie

>>7094187
I enjoy fiction quite a bit, I don't know how much of a place for it a postcapitalist society would have. In that sense I definitely enjoy endless consumption.

>>7094052
A rejection of post-modernism is a rejection of the idea that life is meaningless.

>>7094788
Butters is paralysis.
I think it is about time things changed around here.

>>7095106
Do you like Grimes?
You post that picture quite a bit.
Butters is one of the best trips I know, across boards.

What the fuck is post modernism anyway?

>>7095095
but, life is meaningless bro

>>7094081
north korea

>>7094173
wtf did i just watch

>>7095124
Only in the since that there isn't an inherent purpose for your being.

Laos.

Everyone fucking forgets about Laos.

I think it's the result of the spanner thrown in Marx's linear progression of capitalism by the presence of actually existing socialism.

>>7095113
>Butters is one of the best trips I know
Is this satire? I don't like the poster you're responding to, but basically 90% of what butterfly posts is conductive to 'dialogue paralysis'. "Are you retarded?" is not quality posting, m80

>>7095113
Everybody likes Grimes.

>>7095189
This isn't true, but I wish it was.
>>7095150
>since

>>7094123
>Only a country and state that denies it's citizens the right to own private property(i.e denying them the right to own the means of production)
Wait, so communism is capitalism?

>>7095196
>since

I saw it right after I posted too.

>>7094173
>my precious scooter
fucking kek

>>7094052
Capitalism is a BwO
Of course it's everything there is

>>7094173
I don't get it, why was he standing in her way?

>>7095382
Probably just trying to exert his feeble authority over her for whatever reasons.
Such poverty.
This isn't human nature, this is trained behaviourism

>>7094052
> implying capitalism exists and that every single modern economy isn't mixed

>>7094240
>What are you guys writing your novels about?
I'm this >>7094216 fag
I'm trying to write a novel about how humans give the best of themselves when everything is fucked. The setting is a post-apocalyptic world where the remaning humans must accept they're the last ones and that everything has been already decided. Reading Gravity's Rainbow I've found a lot of stuff I previously thought it would be very original to use except Pynchon did it better. I want to make something surrealistic without it being a culsterfuck of nonsense, but above all I want it to give a moral message that contradicts my intuitions: humanity sin't THAT shitty.

>>7095420
This is our society in all its splendor.

>>7095426
>mixed economy
this fucker is interpreting capitalism from a high school economics standpoint

/pol/-faggot here, please explain a few things to me.

You blame capitalism for postmodernism, but isn't postmodernism the same thing as cultural marxism which is Jewish-bolshevik-feminist brainwashing??
Why are you blaming capitalism? If we got rid of the Jews and feminists and liberals, say, surely there still wouldn't be post-modernism, degeneracy, and cultural marxism?

>>7095912
No.

>>7095867
It's too late for them, but what I'm saying is their genes aren't responsible for these behaviour patterns. It's poverty. Remove poverty and you can raise a generation to aspire to loftier things.

>>7095885
He's essentially right. Admittedly it is more capitalist.

>>7095912
There's multiple aspects to pomo. Capitalism is responsible for churning out and promoting some of the most drab shit, still, without capitalism, you'd be getting lots of things published simply because of the massive size of our population.
The themes and motifs of pomo would likely continue, maybe become more regionally appreciated while other themes and motifs emerged in other areas of the world.

Protip: There is no "getting rid of" "Jews" as you see them, but ending capitalism would by definition end liberalism, and stop the more annoying brand of "third wave" feminism. So wont you please support Bernie Sanders this election cycle :D

>>7095912
b8

>>7095912
hmm, after considering your questions carefully, I would have to say please leave

>>7095156
please explain

>whines about capitalism when people work around the clock to produce nice things for him

people are strange.

>>7096097
>So wont you please support Bernie Sanders this election cycle :D

>eurosocialism
>not killing your boss

what kind of bullshit are you tryin to pull here

>>7094146
Sorry, since when did postmodernism have anything essential to do with economy/capitalism?

>>7096233

>>7096233
since shit stopped having meaning

>>7096201
Producing nice things isn't unique to capitalism.

Working around the clock is.

>>7096223
I'm a pragmatic anarchist, not a Marxist.
I'm not so sure a violent communist takeover would work in these days. Certainly not in the US. If the US had a violent takeover it seems it would quickly go to a more fascist regime and then we'd all be even more screwed than usual.
A more left leaning US would have an amazing effect on the world.

>>7096266
The nicest things don't come off assembly lines

>>7096279
keep telling yourself that

>>7096281
Hasty statement from an artist. I take it back.
I was thinking of cheap slave labor shit from Walmart

>>7096292
fair enough

>>7094052
>>7094178
That would imply that environmentalists aren't the single worst manifestation of post-modernism.

>>7096170
The country

>>7094052
somebody did not get the news

>>7094173
>Ameriburgers doing Ameriburger things
>Waah waah, humanity is imperfect, I'm so special for weighing less than a landwhale!

Stop projecting.
Feels good to be a superior European. :^) What were you doing on /gif/? Thanks for finding this, this is going to be excellent banter material on /int/

>>7096356
>grauniad

>>7095121
After modernism technically.

But a good example is that in art, post modernism is the critique of what is art itself, in modernism we saw the deconstruction of the aesthetic form, but if aesthetics mean nothing, what constitutes good art beyond its market value? Is Capitalism the only thing that gives something a measurable value?

>>7096400
>but if aesthetics mean nothing, what constitutes good art
I would imagine that many would say the transformative potential.

>>7096097
>It's poverty
Not so sure about that. Even removing all the negative social factors that come with poverty, there's still human stupidity in the game. You can see this kind of stupid shit happening even amongst rich people (maybe specially amongst rich people when they're competing for inheritances, a workplace or shit like that). Poverty often means poor education, bad inlfuences and fewer options, for sure, but I think it's not the only thing to blame for general human behavior having become as shitty as it currently is.

>>7094200

Commercials exist because people want them? Are you insane my good Watson?

>>7095912

>but isn't postmodernism the same thing as cultural marxism which is Jewish-bolshevik-feminist brainwashing??

set yourself on fire. it'll be easier this way.

>>7095912

>but isn't postmodernism the same thing as cultural marxism

cultural marxism does not exist. critical theory is not nonnected to a jewish agenda or third wave feminism. read some adorno you subhuman mouthbreather.

>>7096706
>read
NOOOOOOOOOO

>>7095912
tbh, some of the authors associated with whatever "cultural marxism" (as in, the Frankfurt school) are reactionary marxists, like Adorno and (at times) Benjamin.

I doubt you'd like Benjamin though, dude was too open about being jew even for my lefty standards

>>7095113
Yes.

>>7096738
yep, conservatives make a conspiracy theory out of cultural Marxism and leftist like to deny the effects of these thinkers on the arts and intellectual life. Both sides have issues with contemporary society and popular culture, one side thinks it is degenerate and the other thinks it is oppressive.

>>7096744
lol
>>>/mu/

>>7096784
>leftist like to deny the effects of these thinkers on the arts and intellectual life.
Wut
You probably mean American leftists. At my uni leftists were totally ok with that.

>>7096356
This is why New Sincerity is a thing now, duh

What are the best books about postmodernism?

>>7097587

Lobotomy and Philosophy by Schlomo de Paris

>>7095885
?? I literally have a degree in economics.

>>7096266
Working around the clock is a function of workers not having bargaining power with their employers whoch only happens because the labor market isn't tight enough.

If we could institute a high ngdp target this problem would disappear but then everyone starts whining
> muh debt
> muh inflation

as if the government can run out of money and the absolutely most important thing is how little the money you save under your mattress depreciates in value.