/lit/ - Literature

>>7089855
it'd be a great intro and people who know far more than you would be there to educate you and slap your shit sideways every time you were thinking yourself a genius

also your peers would be able to bounce ideas off you and vice versa so it'd be quite useful for that

>>7089855
Can you make reading and learning a habit on your own? If yes, then you don't need to go to uni

>>7089855
For the huge majority of people including those with a knack for it, yes. University will expose you to men who've worked with these ideas for decades who will make sure you don't think you're clever when you're not (self-education is very susceptible to the Dunning-Kruger effect). The reading lists are often unconventional, so you'll even read stuff you might not have heard of otherwise. Class discussions and term papers will put your rigour to the test.

Self teaching a field that is almost 100% about debate and mathematics would be extremely difficult.

>>7089875
Flyover state, "autodidactic," mustang-driving welder detected.

>>7089875
>>7089890
Nah. Just poorfag.

>>7089898
i do phil at a top uni. its worth it,

>>7089898
Are you still in high school or young enough to apply? Most states have at least one university that offers full tuition plus if you have a decent GPA and crush the ACT or SAT.

>>7089902
I'm not OP. I'm a worthless stemfag who's trying to get his head through Hegel.

you guys ever watch another guy just jerk it into a urinal?

And you're like, "Yeah, sensible man....fucking sensible."

>>7089855
it's all bullshit, OP

read Richard Feynman

yes, its a must to go to university. You won't be taken seriously otherwise

>>7089921
You should only use philosophy to pick up chicks tbh

This guy is basically right: >>7089890

If you end up not going to university, don't give up. But you should be aware of the benefits of going to university.

It's sort of like asking: Can I be a good carpenter, with no formal training, when I'm a law clerk for my dayjob? I mean, sorta. But what is most likely to happen is that you will spend ten years dithering and sorta-kinda-almost being interested in carpentry, and then you'll meet a guy who does carpentry for a living and he'll blow you the fuck away with ten billion little things he learned via practical experience, ten billion things that aren't in textbooks, all those little nuances and bits of colouring outside the lines that come after your formal training is complete and you start actually having to meet deadlines and get real jobs done.

It's theoretically possible for you to have sufficient passion and interest and dedication to get the same lumps that the "real" carpenter has. And I genuinely think that certain savants and geniuses could come out being the best carpenters of all time, leaving all the tradesmen in the dust, expressly BECAUSE they approached it from such an unorthodox angle. But that's just unlikely to be you, or anyone really.

If you want to publish or work academically, that's another thing. Having the piece of paper that says you went through ten years of shit tests gets you through a few doors. But if you are simply a guy who knows he isn't going to drop everything and retool his life to study philosophy at the university level, I say you can do it, you just have to be very very aware that you are liable to be effortlessly outpaced by far less talented people simply because they are on the greased, auto-correcting trajectory that the university system provides. Just be aware that this is the abyss of dilettantism you're constantly hovering over, keep that always in mind, and you can compensate for it.

Sorr yfor this rambling post IO'm drunk.

You can't self teach yourself philosophy, what are you going to do? watch youtube pop 4 minute philosophy?

Yes you have to go to university if you ever want more than a layman knowledge on a subject

>>7089990
yes, you can teach yourself on any level

it's just that most people are unable, or have no idea how hard you have to push yourself, to become an expert

>>7089855

That's like asking if you have to play in an organized basketball league to know how to play basketball.

No. Tarantino didn't go to film school (he went to films). So I suppose that you could apply the same to philosophy.

>>7089855

Just read the philosophy books you want to read, nigger. Also, start with the Greeks.

>>7090080
he said "good knowledge" not wikipedia level knowledge

>>7090108

what are books?

>>7089855
no. there's only one way to do philosophy: dialectics.

when you're with people, engage them in dialectics. when you're alone, engage yourself.

reading other philosophers is masturbation.

>>7089908
read his encyclopedia first if you haven't already.

>>7089855
>How difficult would it be to self teach

If you just want to spend an hour before bed reading Spinoza your whole life, then go ahead. It's not difficult to have a hobby, but you'll always just be a dilettante without any worthy thoughts about philosophy.

>>7089975
>>7089890
Self-masturbatory academic bullshit ITT. I guess you want tenure?

University is a collectively accepted scam, like fiat currency.

If you want to be a professor, go to university.

If you just want to "know about philosophy" (or anything else, mostly), read about philosophy.

You will acquire the same working knowledge as a bachelor of X for 0$.

Whatever "magical knowledge" people acquire by reading the same books at university disappears approximately 6 months after graduation when they forget it along with every other useless detail they learned at university.

ITT: butthurt philosophy majors pretend their degree is highly valuable

No, but you need the self discipline to put in the time on your own. That goes for anything you attempt to self teach.

>>7090145
so paying thousands of dollars a year makes me a true philosopher

>>7090142
Ty anon.

>>7090155
you're an idiot, seriously. I was a fairly well read autodidact before I entered university and the opportunity to discuss and debate with scholars was wholly enriching and humbling. Please no one listen to this idiot. That throwaway line in Good Will Hunting was supposed to clue you in to how naiive and stupid WIll was.

>>7090265
That $40k debt stinging a bit, eh?

My words are the truth. Unless you apply what you learn, you forget it.

That goes for every humanities major. You'll have faint memories of whatever books you read... and then nothing.

All for $40k+ and the opportunity for a higher paycheck.

>>7090155
>>7090272
>>7090155
Did a minor in philosophy. I'm by no means an expert but I've learned enough to pick out the people who annotate Heidegger in their sleep and separate them from those who skim Wiki articles. That big guy at the gym who talks about 'Neetch' is not as smart as he thinks he is.

>>7090155
If you want an example of the limits of self study, just look at home schooled kids.

I had an experience like this guy >>7090265
and got knocked down enough pegs to recognize how much I could learn from others.

>>7090162
Nah, Biology major who learned a ton in some very interesting phil classes.

>>7090155
You'll never learn enough through reading alone. You need to discuss what you read with other people. You may think you have the best theory and understanding of a subject in the world, until a professor or peer completely torpedoes it.

Fucking Plato knew this.

>>7090290
>You need to discuss what you read with other people.
>Post on /lit/
Problem solved.

>>7090290
Darn. If only we had a way to discuss philosophy with other knowledgeable people outside of a university.

>>7090295
Right. But then you're not self taught.

>>7090294
>>7090295
if there's 100 posters on /lit/, all of 5 of them know anything about anything, and they're shitposting 95 posts out of 100.

Philosophy is irrelevant except as a form of logic for retards. Just take math classes instead.

Considering 99% of philosophers you will read attended university to study philosophy, you will probably want to as well.

>>7090134
hot fire post gets ignored as usual

>>7090323
This bait is completely undetectable

>>7090426
Maths can be tested objectively, philosophy can not. Its one of the only reasonable starting points of knowledge

>>7090437
Prove that 0.999..=1 without using math. Use only observable fact.

>>7090437
You're full of shit. You can't seriously believe that your experience of reality can lead to some kind of knowledge or truth. Scepticism is what everyone should consider as the true philosophy... Except it isn't since you can't possibly know anything.

>>7090446
Observable fact rests on assumptions as well.

The difference is that math creates a clearly defined set of logical primitives and assumptions and builds a universe around it. Most philosophy is trash and anything predating the 20th century is just idiots spewing garbage, relying on dumb metaphors as though that's some sort of proof or playing games with word connotations.

>>7090461
>u cant kno nuffin
Wow, the stereotype is true.

>>7089855

Phil major here. No you don't need to go to University to learn philosophy. School took the fun out of it for me. You are forced to be a speed reading, regurgitation freak. In any decent program you will learn the skills to be an effective lawyer, which I could have passed on. I'm glad I double majored because I had way more fun with philosophy in my literature classes.

i'm an undecided freshman taking some babby philosophy classes

i'd rather learn on my own tbh

actually this doesn't have anything to do with philosophy specifically, i just hate college

i don't even know why i'm writing this anymore

>>7090566
Checkout Prescott College

>>7090588
I'm actually going to the university of arizona, weird that you mention PC out of all possible places.

>For the Liberal Arts, the Environment and Social Justice

>>7090536
>being a slow reader

>>7090566
College is shit bruh for non-specialized humanities shit. Especially at non-elite schools like the ones you and I go to. Im doing an english major at a top 50/60/70 idk what number public university, and the kids and the classes are dumb shit. All of it is stuff you absolutely could but probably wouldn't have the discipline to learn on your own time. Im a junior and trying to get a good job in the next year so I can drop out without my parents twisting their panties too much. I wish you luck or wish you would drop out and do something cool- become a mechanic and study philosophy on the side

>>7089855

university philosophy will ruin any real enthusiasm for the discipline

read On Philosophy at the Universities by Schopenhauer. Things have not changed in the least. If anything the situation is worse

if you have a serious interest in philosophy, for god's sake, stay the hell away from university philosophy

>>7089890

lel I love how we don't even need tripcodes anymore to pick out the shitposters on here because they always use the same trite turns of phrase

>>7090800
nice try poor NEET who couldn't get in. You might think you know philosophy but you won't have anyone to confirm it through exams. Wikipedia can only teach you so much, its nothing compared to a prof who has studied his entire life and has real life experience in the field.

>>7089921

Philosophy journal reviews are blind, so you can get taken seriously even if you're not in academia.

>>7090833

>poor NEET

I laughed, thanks

They'll be plenty of people to confirm the merit of my work when the first book comes out.

>"A man may attend six universities; he will never produce anything comparable to Critique of Pure Reason."

you'll find plenty of professors and students at the universities, but you will have hard work to find even one legitimate philosopher

>>7090833

fuck that hurt my sides anon

also what the fuck constitutes 'real experience in the field' of philosophy? sitting at a desk mulling over the foundations of a moral world order?

>>7090804
Wow, I've only used "flyover state welder" once before in my entire posting career. Well played.

That part was just being a dick but I meant what I said in the first section of that post.

>>7090833
>he isn't NEETking

I'd like to see any of you autodidactic idiots name me one thing you've contributed to the field of Philosophy. Oh wait, you haven't contributed anything.

>>7090618
>There are other people that go to the UofA and browse /lit/

>>7091218
This is huge. The peer review process doesn't allow the reviewers to know the identity of the person submitting an article, and somehow I have yet to come across an article by an uncredentialled 4chan browser in any of my research.

Philosophy is useless because every argument/assertion eventually just breaks down at the linguistic-definitions level.

Study more rigorous and concrete subjects with equivalent conceptual complexity, i.e. programming and high-level math. You will net two extra zeros per paycheck, and people will actually be impressed at parties as opposed to giving you "that look" when you mention your fondness for Camus.

>>7091365
a guy who thinks life is about paycheck zeroes and impressing people at parties thinks philosophizing is not an ideal pursuit. let's all learn a little lesson from this.

>>7091365
Thing is, there's sense to be made of that breakdown, but you clearly haven't studied enough philosophy and linguistics to see that.

Just stick to whatever it is you do and leave philosophy to the autists who live and breath that stuff.

>>7091376

and a Mass Effect fan to boot

>>7091365
>You will net two extra zeros per paycheck, and people will actually be impressed at parties as opposed to giving you "that look" when you mention your fondness for Camus.

>Mentions $
>Mentions popularity
>Namedrops Camus

You're a living parody and you lack the philosophical self-awareness to know it.

>>7091385
>You're a living parody
Tu quoque, imageboard philosopher

>>7089855
University exists to destroy your chance at ever creating philosophy, the more you know, the less creative and more derivative you are. Read nothing, clear your mind, only think.

>>7089890
>>7089875
>>7089871
>>7089855
Just read fucking books, don't listen to these brainwashed teenagers.

If by "philosophy" you mean that you want to be convinced that marxism is the best shit ever while being surrounded by oversensitive pussified idiots, then go ahead and pay for university.

Philosophy is one of those uni courses where it's hit or miss. I took one for fun and my prof was some PhD candidate who loved Marxism and was boring as shit. We had another PhD candidate fill in for him one day and she was SJW incarnate. I had never actually met such a deluded feminist before then, worst lecture I've ever been to.

Took a second year course with a good prof and it was fantastic, learned various viewpoints and it was great. So as long as you get a good prof who wants you to learn rather than trying to indoctrinate you, university philosophy is fantastic.

>>7091508
So it's a 40,000$ dice roll?

>>7091509
I think it depends on the school you go to. I went to undergrad at a state school in Texas and the faculty were very bright and engaging and the class discussions were usually great. Now I'm in a non-philosophy grad program at CU Boulder and the philosophy department here seems to be incredibly PC and indoctrinating, from everything I have seen. Do your research.

>>7091477
Yeah, no, I've been out of college for a while. Learned a ton from philosophy professors and had a much more interesting time than I would have reading books alone.

Pro tip: vanishingly few people in any field get good without long term collaborations with mentors and colleagues. This is even true in pure mathematics.

>>7091523
You're not "good" at philosophy

>>7091385
>having money is bad
>having friends is bad
>knowing about philosophy is bad

>>7091509
Yes, but it's a 20-sided die, and you only succeed on a natural 20.

>>7091547
All I'll say is that there's only one way to take a midnight seminar with Dan Dennett, and it ain't hiding in your room.

>>7091553
Or watching a video of a seminar, lol

Anyhow, any worthwhile teachers are long dead.

>>7091553
lmao might as well mention Dawkins

>>7091558
Yes, if only all interactions that take place at universities could be streamed to you, then nobody would need universities!

>>7091558
>any worthwhile teachers are long dead

you're a moron

>>7091563
you're a dumb faggot, and a moron too

>>7091562
>If there's a product that people pay for it means it's a necessity

Your assumptions that not going to uni for philosophy means someone is strictly staying home is asinine. Go converse with Dawkins and pretend you're "good" at philosophy the same way someone is good at math.

>>7091365
i hope you get cancer so you can make use of the zeroes.

>>7091569
>implying I ever said I was good
I've been pretty clear that I just took a few classes, but I saw some damn sharp people in action in that time. It's like porn; you know it when you see it.

It depends really, an autodidact can educate himself decently granted he reads *a lot* (not just primary sources; read articles, commentaries, journals etc), takes notes, takes time, discusses ideas with peoplr who know their shit, thinks and reflects on what he's reading, and challenges his own thought.

>>7091582
You've only seen them as an observer, something possible on the internet.

Couldn't stomeone just read philosophy and discuss about it with other knowledgable people?

>>7091672
You need to fit in with a professor's ideology to actually know philosophy

>>7091672
Yes, but the whole point is university provides both the community and structure to optimize discussion and study. Or in other words, most people just don't enough of either of these on their own to successfully go the autodidact route, but if you do then go for it.

>going to university for philosophy
>start with the Greeks
you're goddamn right, there's a reason they save Foucault BTFO institutions just like the one you just dropped 80k on for last

>>7091737
>80k

land of the free

>>7091691
speculation about absolutes isn't something you need to learn through reading; it's an innate skill, like mathematics - and unlike mathematics, it isn't cumulative, so what others have achieved is irrelevant if your interest is to develop your own skill.

If you're looking to learn the history of human speculation re. absolutes, then you have to read. I wish these two were more successfully distinguished.

>>7091768
>philosophy is speculation about absolutes

honestly just leave

>>7091691
>most people just don't enough of either of these on their own to successfully go the autodidact route, but if you do then go for it
cool, thanks a lot

>>7091377
>>Thing is, there's sense to be made of that breakdown,
such as ?

>>7089855
>Do you need to

You don't need to do anything OP. Like seriously.

>>7091768
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAaaaa.... HOHOHOHOHOHOOHOHOHOHOoo....
HIHIIHIHIHIHIHIHIHIHIIHHIIHIHII....
Were I sincere enough?

>>7090478
Philosophy is about concluding what those logical primitives should be.

ITT : Sunk Costs

>>7090083
It shows, and it would show too in the study of philosophy.

>>7089855
underrated post

>>7089855

Start with the Egyptians. Once you make it all the way to Sam Harris, start with the Egyptians again. Repeat this at least 5 times, and do it extremely thoroughly. It will take decades, but when you have finally mastered philosophy, then you will finally realize that you can't know anything.

>>7090134
Un comentario que vale la pena responder.
This guy is right :)