/lit/ - Literature

not lit

>>7074397
no it's just called having human and having empathy in the real world. It's easy being an asshole on the internet but to see that stuff in real life... does something to you

>>7074397

>Do people have the moral duty to help other people which desperately need it?

Yes.

>>7074399
But ethics are philosophy, anon.

>>7074397
>/pol/ will actually justify this
>/pol/ is masturbating to that picture right now

>>7074397
>Do European people have the moral duty to receive all the refugees and illegal migrants that are coming lately?

Only those who are in real need. Not economic immigrants. And then that applies to countries who played major part in bringing these conflicts into escalation.

>>7074397
yes

and we should get used to the idea that many people from third world regions will come to yurop as opportunities to do so arisen, population higher and people there will be kept being exploited by their government/first world, in those countries.

Human migration isn't some fantastic concept.

also http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21662547-bigger-welcome-mat-would-be-europes-own-interest-let-them-and-let-them-earn

Are they creating the conflicts driving people out of their homes?
Are they supporting the dictators that drive people out of their homes?
The answer to these questions answer the OP questions

>We're not /pol/.
Then why are we discussing politics here?

>>7074421
Who is they?

>>7074413
>Only those who are in real need. Not economic immigrants.
right wing maymay
trying to >imply they're illigitimate
who the fuck else would be fleeing syria? iraq? yemen? sudan? somalia?
who are these economic immigrants you speak of?

>>7074397
I fucking hate the propaganda around that picture. The kid died in Turkey. Why are they blaming the EU? Schengen doesn't start until Hungary. Macedonia and Serbia also aren't EU countries.

>>7074397
>European people
>implying you can compare Germany, France or Britain to Poland, Hungary or Slovakia.

>>7074448
this

>tfw from dumbass slovakia

>>7074448
>implying you know shit about Poland, Hungary, or Slovakia

>>7074452
>implying I am not Slovak

>>7074397
they have the moral duty to remove as much suffering as possible, by killing babies as soon as possible

It's a pretty difficult moral issue. We all agree it's good to help people that need it when we can, but then why help Syrians specifically?

If you're a Syrian and you're living in a refugee camp then you are probably still living a better life than lots of people in sub-Saharan Africa. We help Syrians because there is a chance they will leave in the 5 years they are granted asylum for, but asylum is a lie. Once you are granted asylum you can become a permanent resident very easily. So could we make a universal law about helping the unfortunate that wouldn't mean we'd ignore Syrians?

Then you have the paradox that us in the west are only able to offer help because of our beliefs and our way of life and the way our society runs. The moment we help too many is the moment we can no longer help anyone. Perhaps on a utilitarian model you might say it's best to not help refugees because then you have 100 not very happy people instead of 50 very happy people.

Then you have another problem. Look at what is happening now. Refugees know they will get money and help in Europe so they risk their children dying and they open up room to be exploited by smugglers. If we offer living space in one country we create bigger problems from the countries between us and them and we've just removed all the intelligent peace loving people from their war torn country. So what happens to Syria now?

On another less intellectual note it is pretty annoying that there are people struggling to make a living in European countries, especially with the cost of housing. Yet thanks to the work of the rich middle classes and especially women that do not pay much income tax, thousands of people with no money will be given housing in poor areas that are already fractured beyond repair from unrestricted immigration.

>>7074418
I would have said “yes” until I saw The Economist was also advocating for their reception. Now I'm worried it's “no”.

>>7074461

Haha, I had the same gut reaction.

>>7074460

In fact it's easy once you take national borders out of it.

People which can help homeless people starving ought to. It needn't be complicated.

>>7074461
>implying any serious journal/magazine advocate not helping them

"As numerous points of interest have arisen
in the course of this essay, I close with a brief
summary, to refresh the reader’s mind.
(a) We do not learn from history because
our studies are brief and prejudiced.
(b) In a surprising manner,
250
years
emerges as the average length of national
greatness.
(c) This average has not varied for
3
,
000
years. Does it represent ten generations?
(d) The stages of the rise and fall of great
nations seem to be:
The Age of Pioneers (outburst)
The Age of Conquests
The Age of Commerce
The Age of Af
fl
uence
The Age of Intellect
The Age of Decadence.
(e) Decadence is marked by:
Defensiveness
Pessimism
Materialism
Frivolity
An in
fl
ux of foreigners
The Welfare State
A weakening of religion.
(f) Decadence is due to:
Too long a period of wealth and power
Sel
fi
shness
Love of money
The loss of a sense of duty.
(g) The life histories of great states are
amazingly similar, and are due to internal
factors.
(h) Their falls are diverse, because they are
largely the result of external causes.
(i) History should be taught as the history
of the human race, though of course with
emphasis on the history of the student’s own
country"

>>7074469

Like I said. There is a paradox there because you can only help because you live in a rich and small society. In other words you can only help because you've been greedy and selfish and your society has been more sensible than other ones. When you start being altruistic you cannot help. In places like the UK and Germany what will happen is that the poorest people will be forced to be altruistic and inclusive.

ITT: people swallowing state-supplied ideology hook, line and sinker.

>>7074492

>muh independent mind

>>7074492
what do you swallow then, illuminate your truth upon us

This definitely has nothing to do with an economic system that created huge disparities in wealth.
How unfair of them to leave their countries, fucking leeches.

>>7074498

We need to throw them bootstraps.

>>7074397
No. We live in a world of tribes trying to fuck each other. If you're not the fucker, you're the fuckee.

In this case, you are the fuckee because your tribe--your nation--is being destroyed by the Plutocrat Tribe in various ways.

With no identity, no borders, no tariffs, and skyrocketing debt, all tribes will be lumped together into one third-world brown mess under Banker.

Get ready for Gilded Age 2.0. There will be no jobs and you will work in factories for 16 hours a day, because you gave up your national sovereignty.

>>7074496
I don't swallow anything but the observations converging in to and the insights radiating out from my own mind. I analyze the world, churn it through my brain, and spit out authentic reality like no state or institution could give you—not because I am always right, but because I am always free. And you could be the same way if you wanted to. But if you'd rather remain chained up by yourself to your mind-killing ideologies, that's your own choice, I guess.

no, fuck off

>>7074397
No they don't.

>>7074496
The redpill.

>non-whites are inferior
>Muslims are part of the Jewish plot to subvert Western civilization
>degeneracy through the breeding out of the white race, again a constitute part of the Jewish plot to enslave and kill us
>making men more effeminate by having us care about 'muh feeling' and 'muh morals'
>feminism rising

>>7074506

KEK

>>7074506
I too, remember being 17

>>7074505
>there will be no jobs and you will work in factories for 16 hours a day
It's funny how /pol/tards can't even keep a sentence's meaning straight

>>7074506
>being this entrenched in ideology

my god

>>7074441
Last time I checked no European country bordered any of those.
If they were really in need why the fuck would they cross a continent to conveniently arrive at the doorstep of the most economically developed nations of the world?

The dead kid on the beach in Syria was living in Turkey for a year before mummy and daddy wanted they wanted more fee stuff.

>>7074505
>No. We live in a world of tribes trying to fuck each other. If you're not the fucker, you're the fuckee.


Yea, so start raping and killing each other you fucking retard

>>7074505
>With no identity, no borders, no tariffs, and skyrocketing debt, all tribes will be lumped together into one third-world brown mess under Banker.

That's just the cultural logic of late capitalism.

"All that is solid melts into air" Marx.

>>7074517

Don't give him ideas. You know what *they're* like.

>>7074516
The economically developed nations only became wealthy by exploiting the poor ones, and keeping them exploited

>>7074516
So you trying to say that poor should stay poor?

>>7074525
But anon, that's wrong.

>>7074525

I hear the Orientals have a word for this sort of thing... karma.

>>7074527
If we want to maintain our relative wealth, then yes.

We can only keep that up by stealing resources from the third world

>>7074525
That's not true.Tell me who south Korea, or new Zealand, or Switzerland exploited.

Marx get out

>>7074529
Yeah, you're undoubtedly correct. The West has NOTHING to do with why they're fleeing those hell holes

oh look it's the oppression olympics and the religion of pity again

>>7074532
thats not moral though

>>7074535

The Vietnamese, Maori and European Jewry, respectively. Not to mention their own proles.

>>7074535
>Tell me who south Korea, or new Zealand, or Switzerland exploited.

They support and benefit from an economic system that creates huge disparities in wealth.

>>7074540
Morality is for faggot liberals

Real men don't care about cuckery like that. They do what they please

>>7074535
>Switzerland
>not profiting from money launders, organized crime and narcotic bosses

>>7074545

Alright, Mrs Rand, time for your afternoon nap.

>>7074545
so that answers the OP's question I guess

>>7074535
>new zealand
china

>swiss
banks

>south korea
america

All three sources derive their wealth from exploitation.

>>7074550
>banking is exploitation

Countries become rich by developing better technology and increasing their capacity to produce.

Now Shut the fuck:
>>7074546
>>7074543

Well yeah but they should all be taken in by the US 'cause of the war on terror and Iraq

>>7074552
money laundering
tax evasion

>>7074552
>banking isn't exploitation

>>7074553
Yes, and how do they do that?

>>7074559
>people engaging in voluntary action is exploitation

>Ever

>>7074553

He's here all week, folks!

>>7074564
Investing

>>7074553
you cant be serious

>>7074545
It would please me greatly to hack off your head with a blunt knife and declare it "moral enough".

>>7074571
How am I wrong?

>>7074566
Butt-flustered bank clerk detected.

Stop trying to pressure me into owning a credit card, you awful capitalist drone-cunt.

I dont want foreigners in my country.

Thankfully, they dont want to be here either.

Feels good to be irrelevant country.

>>7074566
>deluding yourself into thinking actions can be meaningfully categorized as voluntary and involuntary

>Ever

>>7074574

Why do countries build empires? After all, all they need for success is within their own borders.

>>7074574
why haven't you started business yet? Your logic implies you could be a fucking millionaire just like that

I know the pieces fit!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yNAABKD4IA

First it was the journalist being shot with Vicarious, now this. Most news is Tool song adaptable. The band that keeps on giving.

>yfw there are Marxists shits in here who think the West destabilized the middle East for 'muh oil'

>>7074579
>I dont want foreigners in my country.
why?

You know thats an obsolete primordial instinct (just like killing and raping) you are embracing here?

>>7074581
Naturally, that's another approach. But its a high risk approach, and isn't the best way or the way most of the current economic superpowers achieved their current wealth.

>>7074585
actually that's what browns and poltards believe, not Marxists

>>7074588
It may be. However if i am the only one who gets rid of it, I am still fucked.

Like that boy who fell in cage with bears and pretended to be a bear and bears killed him.

If you know what I mean.

>>7074580
Nothing is ever truly voluntary, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't call it voluntary.

>>7074397

>>7074595
yeah, with reactionaries like you we would still be living a caveman's life mate

>>7074397
>We're not /pol/.

Indeed. Read the sticky fucktard.

>>7074583
No it doesn't.

>>7074602
At least my country doesnt have threat of race wars or immigrant riots :)

>>7074606
>muh moral panic

>>7074615
>he says in a thread that's all about moral panics

>>7074619
no, attitude like yours is moral panic.

>>7074602
seeing as scientists are getting SJW'ed for making problematic comments, i doubt distance from caveman times has anything to do with your agenda.

also you are using the term reactionary wrong, you can't say someone is reactionary in an active debate, you can call them conservative.

>>7074397
>take in refugees
>guarantee their safety and humane living conditions
>have them perform labor to pay for their stay
Is this a situation where everyone wins?

>>7074629

I literally have no idea what you're trying to say.

cool can we see the picture of the mother and son beheaded by the refugee in Sweden?
no? ok then

>>7074627
i'm another person and I'm p. sure that dislike of immigrants in the manner of a baltic country or wherever he's from doesn't count as a moral panic, but pictures of dead babies and screaming about oppression does count

"One of the oft-repeated phenomena of great empires is the influx of foreigners to the capital city. Roman historians often complain of the number of Asians and Africans in Rome. Baghdad, in its prime in the ninth century, was international in its population - Persians, Turks, Arabs, Armenians, Egyptians, Africans, and Greeks mingled in its streets.

In London today, Cypriots, Greeks, Italians, Russians, Africans, Germans, and Indians jostle one another on the buses and in the undergournd, so that it sometimes seems difficult to find any British. The same applies to New York, perhaps even more so. This problem does not consist in any inferiority of one race as compared with another, but simply in the differences between them.

In the age of the first outburst and the subsequent Age of Conquests, the race is normally ethnically more or less homogeneous. This state of affairs facilitates a feeling of solidarity and comradeship. But in the Ages of Commerce and Affluence, every type of foreigner floods into the great city, the streets of which are reputed to be paved with gold. As, in most cases, this great city is also the capital of the empire, the cosmopolitan crowd at the seat of the empire exercises a political influence greatly in excess of its relative numbers.

Second- or third-generation foreign immigrants may appear outwardly to be entirely assimilated, but they often constitute a weakness in two directions. First, their basic human nature often differs from that of the original imperial stock. If the earlier imperial race was stubborn and slow-moving, the immigrants might come from more emotional races, thereby introducing cracks and schisms into the national policies, even if all were equally loyal.

Second, while the nation is still affluent, all the diverse races may appear equally loyal. But in an acute emergency, the immigrants will often be less willing to sacrifice their lives and their property than will be the original descendants of the founder race.

Third, the immigrants are liable to form communities of their own, protecting primarily their own interests, and only in the second degree that of the nation as a whole.

Fourth, many of the foreign immigrants will probably belong to races originally conquered by and absorbed into the empire. While the empire is enjoying its High Noon of prosperity, all these people are proud and glad to be imperial citizens. But when decline sets in, it is extraordinary how the memory of ancient wars, perhaps centuries before, is suddenly revived, and local or provincial movements appear demanding secession or independence. Some day this phenomenon will doubtless appear in the now apparently monolithic and authoritarian Soviet empire. It is amazing for how long such provincial sentiments can survive."

>>7074639
wow, murders happen

>>7074642
>sink them boats; not let them in; put them in camps; degenerated Muslims!!
>not moral panic

>>7074650
it's not a moral panic
well it might be partially especially in the more humanistic countries
but mostly it seems to be plain old anti-barbarism

>tfw this is the last crisis of capitalism

>>7074662
How's claiming responsibilities for happenings that yet to happen to a specific group of people not a moral panic? Everyone's now afraid of muh infidel killings, muh mixed race degeneracy thanks to isis and muslim reception in media.

>>7074397
Europeans have zero (0) obligation to house illegal migrants. If they want to take care of them, that's their choice, as it is their choice to preserve their culture and safety and limit welfare benefits to actual citizens of their own countries.

Housing every pathetic brown person after every major conflict in the Middle East is hardly a sustainable way of living. Right now there are no checks on these illegal migrants, there is no way of knowing which are Islamic extremists and which are legitimate asylum seekers, which are going to eat off their asylum benefits for the rest of their lives and which are actually capable of learning their host country's language and being productive members of its society.

European naivety and excessive "tolerance" will destroy any remaining vestiges of unique culture and strain our welfare systems to their breaking point. I'm looking forward to the coming race riots

I'm German and I would see all these people dead before I would allow them a chance to subvert my well functioning society. Fuck those kebabs and their inability to maintain order in their crazy religious zealotry. The human thing would have been to blow the ships from the water.

>>7074674
pol pls go and stay

>>7074670
jihadis are a minor part
mostly it's aversion to general crime rate and scummyness and alien culture

The idea behind refugees and immigration is to permit it at such a slow trickle that those who come in generally assimilate.

>>7074633
It's hard giving them jobs when they're so many. Also, some european countries are quite fucked up -check out Greece and Spain unemployment rates and massive debt-.
Moreover, language could be a serious barrier in order to perform almost every labour.
What you're proposing could work, but current scenario is way worse than everyone expected since:
1)Syria is getting hell on Earth and it doesn't seem to change in a long time.
2)Most refugees coming to Europe are heading only towards a few countries (Germany, UK, etc.)

Sadly, one of the consequences of this crisis is that far right parties are going to benefit from the poor handling of the situation.

Also, I wonder where the guys who thought that selling weapons to syrian rebels in order to harden the Syrian war are hiding now.

>>7074681
They're licking their lips like all industry bosses. A flood of cheap labour put whitey out of work he is too expensive and has mortgages to pay and a shit load of debt. Get in workers who rent their properties, pay tax, and have no need of wage rises while our profits soar because the wage bill goes down.

>>7074674
>>7074678
>>7074673


Found the plebs.

>>7074693
no friend, it is you who are the pleb. I'm fine with immigrants who assimilate; it's out culture that has gotten us to where we are and if they can be a functional useful part of that culture i'm happy for them to join. Otherwise, they can fuck off. I have no obligation to house those who aren't within my tribe at substantial cultural and financial risk to myself.

If they want to join my tribe, they can follow the rules - otherwise, they can stick with theirs and see how it pans out.

Btw, i'm not any of those posters, just sick of the weird liberal morality police that espouse virtues without thinking about consequences or even who TOLD them they were virtues, and why.

>>7074693
>a "patrician" political outlook is babysitting Muslims and destroying your own country in a sad attempt to tell yourself that you are progressive
Okay, I choose the pleb path. It keeps my society's crime rates much lower

>>7074693
I'm not a p-pleb you p-p-pedestrian

Europeans should provide finance and material aid to refugee camps in Turkey and Lebanon and take in no refugees themselves.

>mfw plummeting costs of labor

WE DID IT LADS